What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
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Yes Quran, not Arabic which is a not a perfect language and words are fluid multiple meaning best derived from context; e.g. 434 and beat them (waidriboohunna) issue.
Brother, It amounts to believing in part of Quran and denying/negating some other part. When it is said about Quran that it is Mubeen we say yes it is. But Quran simultaneously says its language Arabic is Mubeen, we say no and add, it is not a perfect language. We contradict even in one small sentence; Quran does not contradict its statements. waidriboohunna issue is made by people. Quran is explicit. Immediately before waidriboohunna is the advice to distance them, wife..inside the bed room. Distancing inside the bed room remains an affair of dispute restricted to husband and wife and none of other members of the family can know about it. The next and final step is to remove wife from the bed room to make the dispute open and evident to other members of the family. waidriboohunna's root infolds in itself the said meaning, make things evident/open/known/understood to people, that is why it is used for giving example since example makes things evident/distinct/understood.
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4911 Aren't nisaa' included in "qawm" already?
Advice is to the community who identify themselves as believers that a "group/tribe" should not mock other group/tribe and same instruction is being given to women with regard to women. Mockery against a tribe and mockery of women against women are two different and distinct things. Women/men of the same tribe could mock other women of the same "qaum".
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Brother, It amounts to believing in part of Quran and denying/negating some other part. When it is said about Quran that it is Mubeen we say yes it is. But Quran simultaneously says its language Arabic is Mubeen, we say no and add, it is not a perfect language. We contradict even in one small sentence; Quran does not contradict its statements.
Brother, there is no contradiction; Quran in Arabic is mubeen ? not everything written in Arabic is mubeen/clear.
4458 So We made it easy in your tongue/language...
26193-196
The spirit, the faithful, descended with it
On your heart/mind to be from the warners
With a clear/evident Arabic language
And that it truly is in the first's Books (i.e. Quran in previous languages; Hebrew, Aramaic)4144 And if We made it a non-Arabic Quran, they would have said "If only its verses were detailed/explained. Is (it) a non-Arabic and an Arab (messenger)?"
Quran would be descended mubeen/clear in any language of the messengers from Albanian to Zulu.
Peace
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Advice is to the community who identify themselves as believers that a "group/tribe" should not mock other group/tribe and same instruction is being given to women with regard to women. Mockery against a tribe and mockery of women against women are two different and distinct things. Women/men of the same tribe could mock other women of the same "qaum".
I understand the meaning of the verse, but my question is why are women mentioned alone after the mention of "qawm"? Why aren't en mentioned alone too?
Cross reference with verse 434 and see the link between (qawm) and (qawwamuun) which share the same root; then (nisaa' in both verses, then you will understand why "rijaal" was not mentioned and what the meaning of (nisaa' is here.
Cross context and referencing, as Hasan mentioned, are the best way to understand the quraan. Linguistics comes later to refute or confirm an understanding.
Or as Dr. Waduud puts it, "read the Book with the eyes of the author". -
I?DRIBU-HUNNA (Passive Imperfect, Feminine verb) "TO NEGLECT, IGNORE, AVOID, TURN AWAY FROM STRIFE, DISCORD, ANIMOSITY BETWEEN OR AMONG PEOPLE" ;Lanes Lexicon PAGE 1779 Left Column & 1780 Middle Column Part 5
Does not mean 'hit', cease believing women can be abused.
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wives are given "ujuur payment" not "sadaqa charity".
Translation of ujuur as payment is too crude and is relevant only to a debauch who makes payment to a 'hired worman'. The manner of discharging the agreed liability at the time of Nikkah is to give them in the manner of sadaqotehinna. Word charity does not portray the concept of sadaqa in the true sense.
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This is morphology (sarf) not grammar.
Of the 58 places can you explain the following
44 Where in the qur'aan do we find the "sadaqa" be given to women? Who is addressed in this verse? Is it for men only?
4127 The verse further explains what "nisaa" is composed of.
4911 Aren't nisaa' included in "qawm" already?
361 "ta3aluu" doesn't this verbal noun include women ? Why are "nisaa'" mentioned again?
2431 Who can be "nisaa'uhunna"? Who is "my woman"?
434 Is this a command or a statement that "men are qawwamuuna ala women"? Which men?Peace Samia,
According to 9.60 sadaqa is given to
- The poor
- The needy
- Those who work to collect the sadaqa
- To free the slaves
- Those in depth
- In the cause of God
- The wayfarer
According to 4.127 nisaa? is composed of the following
- orphan?s mothers - yatama Nisaa?
- weak from the children - mustadafina min al-wildan
- orphans ? yatama
So the above three categories of nisaa? are given sadaqa (charity). On the other hand the women are given ujuur (payment).
49.11 The women are included in qawm. The nisaa? of verse 4.127 are not included in qawm. They are named separately as nisaa?. Men and women can be qawwam. Men and women can be part of the three catagories of nisaa? explained in 4.127.
3.61 The verbal noun ?ta3aluu? includes women and men. Nisaa? in this verse are the grand children including males and females. ?Abnaina and abnaiqum? are ?our children and your children including males and females?
24.31 Nisaa?uhunna in this verse is the same nisaa? as in verse 3.61
4.34 Is not a command or a statement that "men are qawwamuuna ala women". The ones (male or female)work, earn money, and spend it on the ones stay back at home (male or female) are named Rijal.
The ones who stay back at home (male or female) are called nisaa?Please correct me if I am mistaken
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Peace Samia,
According to 9.60 sadaqa is given to
- The poor
- The needy
- Those who work to collect the sadaqa
- To free the slaves
- Those in depth
- In the cause of God
- The wayfarer
According to 4.127 nisaa? is composed of the following
- orphan?s mothers - yatama Nisaa?
- weak from the children - mustadafina min al-wildan
- orphans ? yatama
So the above three categories of nisaa? are given sadaqa (charity). On the other hand the women are given ujuur (payment).
49.11 The women are included in qawm. The nisaa? of verse 4.127 are not included in qawm. They are named separately as nisaa?. Men and women can be qawwam. Men and women can be part of the three catagories of nisaa? explained in 4.127.
3.61 The verbal noun ?ta3aluu? includes women and men. Nisaa? in this verse are the grand children including males and females. ?Abnaina and abnaiqum? are ?our children and your children including males and females?
24.31 Nisaa?uhunna in this verse is the same nisaa? as in verse 3.61
4.34 Is not a command or a statement that "men are qawwamuuna ala women". The ones (male or female)work, earn money, and spend it on the ones stay back at home (male or female) are named Rijal.
The ones who stay back at home (male or female) are called nisaa?Please correct me if I am mistaken
Salaam Tlepsh
You are not at all mistaken. This is exactly how I undersatnd these verses.
If you read the whole thread, you will see that my post was directed to Mahar who sees that the term "nisaa'" ALWAYS mean women. -
Translation of ujuur as payment is too crude and is relevant only to a debauch who makes payment to a 'hired worman'. The manner of discharging the agreed liability at the time of Nikkah is to give them in the manner of sadaqotehinna. Word charity does not portray the concept of sadaqa in the true sense.
Well, I do not know why you look at a "hired woman" in a codescending manner, unless this comes from your own understanding of "why" she is "paid" or for what she is hired. Isn't it in the qur'aan that a mother is to be paid for breast-feeding her infant? Does God even say if she does it for free it is better or more righteous?
Please searcn for the word "ajr" or its derivatives in the qur'aan to see what it means and who gives ajr and who receives it and for what it is "paid", then you may understand why wives are paid "ajr" and not "sadaqa".
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Well, I do not know why you look at a "hired woman" in a codescending manner, unless this comes from your own understanding of "why" she is "paid" or for what she is hired. Isn't it in the qur'aan that a mother is to be paid for breast-feeding her infant? Does God even say if she does it for free it is better or more righteous?
Please searcn for the word "ajr" or its derivatives in the qur'aan to see what it means and who gives ajr and who receives it and for what it is "paid", then you may understand why wives are paid "ajr" and not "sadaqa".
It is common in man's history that men seek women with their money for two purposes 180 degree opposite to each other. This necessitated
{424}make "payments" ajr to women in return to the service these women provided. pay the agreed "freezatun" in the manner.
I hope it is admitted that sadaqa is not an obligation. If it is not an obligation how those 'poor receipients' could have the right to remit part of it?
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I do not know if I have wrong lexicon or you guys have different version. Nisa's root to be Nun-Siin-Waw. Here is relavent page from Lane.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000287.pdf
If it is Nun-Siin-Alif/Ayan
Here are relavent pages,http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000039.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000040.pdfPlease tell me how come women is the obvious meaning.
Peace and love.
Badar
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I?DRIBU-HUNNA (Passive Imperfect, Feminine verb) "TO NEGLECT, IGNORE, AVOID, TURN AWAY FROM STRIFE, DISCORD, ANIMOSITY BETWEEN OR AMONG PEOPLE" ;Lanes Lexicon PAGE 1779 Left Column & 1780 Middle Column Part 5
Does not mean 'hit', cease believing women can be abused.
Are you addressing my example of multi-meaning words?
...multiple meaning best derived from context; e.g. 434 and beat them (waidriboohunna) issue.
See thread...
Hitting One's Wife.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15128.0Quran has this claim about the language of Quran
Yes already posted why Quran was descended in Arabic?
26193-196 The spirit, the faithful, descended with it; on your heart/mind to be from the warners;with a clear Arabic language and that it truly is in the first's Books
4144 And if We made it a non-Arabic Quran, they would have said "If only its verses were detailed/explained. Is (it) a non-Arabic and an Arab (messenger)?"
Btw, post verse numbers so non-Arabic readers who frequent the site may also benefit.
Peace
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Are you addressing my example of multi-meaning words?
See thread...
Hitting One's Wife.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15128.0Yes already posted why Quran was descended in Arabic?
26193-196 The spirit, the faithful, descended with it; on your heart/mind to be from the warners;with a clear Arabic language and that it truly is in the first's Books
4144 And if We made it a non-Arabic Quran, they would have said "If only its verses were detailed/explained. Is (it) a non-Arabic and an Arab (messenger)?"
Btw, post verse numbers so non-Arabic readers who frequent the site may also benefit.
Peace
@Nun...
Personally, with all due respect, I dont need to read a thread to understand what Allah is indicating in Sura 434.
Secondly, this thread is focused on word meanings.
Your welcome to address the topic of abusing women on a thread I created http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597312.0
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Salaam Tlepsh
You are not at all mistaken. This is exactly how I undersatnd these verses.
If you read the whole thread, you will see that my post was directed to Mahar who sees that the term "nisaa'" ALWAYS mean women.Salaam Samia,
Thank you sister Samia. I know your post was directed to Mazhar. I have read the whole thread. I have also read your 3232 posts in all threads of Free Minds. You shall write more and more. Thanks once again. -
Quran has this claim about the language of Quran
Yes already posted why Quran was descended in Arabic?
26193-196 The spirit, the faithful, descended with it; on your heart/mind to be from the warners;with a clear Arabic language and that it truly is in the first's Books
4144 And if We made it a non-Arabic Quran, they would have said "If only its verses were detailed/explained. Is (it) a non-Arabic and an Arab (messenger)?"
"with a clear Arabic language";"If only its verses were detailed/explained" like words only convey a cursory image of what has been said and portrayed in Arabic words. means a language that makes everything distinct, evident, segregated, diferentiated so that for the reader no confusion is left to see and perceive. But people are bent upon even removing the distinction between a male and female; but even distinguishes matter as feminine or masculine which is the reality in physical terms too and helps know and understand the relationships.
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Salaam Samia,
Thank you sister Samia. I know your post was directed to Mazhar. I have read the whole thread. I have also read your 3232 posts in all threads of Free Minds. You shall write more and more. Thanks once again.Salaam Tlepsh
I am afraid I might have sounded a bit rude by saying my post was directed to Mazhar, which was not my intention at all. I meant it was in response to Mazhar's understanding of the word nisaa', not that no other response was welcome. Sorry for my bad expression.
And thanks for your encouraging words -
Sister I requested you to explain for my knowledge about hamza issue.
Sorry for the belated reply.
You are right in believing that "nisaa'" is a possible plural of "nuun seen wau", with the wau coming at the end of the word and following an extra alif, then it will be changed into a hamza.
But if we already have this plural in (niswa), why would the language cut another plural with the same meaning? Seebawayh tried to solve this problem by stating that "niswa" is for a fewer number of women, and "nisaa'" is for many. But we know this is incorrect, since the qur'aan stated (nisaa'an more than two), which is the minimum plural.
You may like to read further about the rules of all letters changing at this linkhttp//zahra1.com/Nah_Em_7att_balagah/E-e3lall.html