What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
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Assalaam Alaikum
I found this site very informative http//arabicgems.wordpress.com/2006/10/15/the-science-of-language/
- Sciences related to the letters. They fall into two sub-categories
i. That which deals with the articulation and sound of the letter. This is known as ?ilm al-sawt (?the science of phonology?), or ?ilm al-tajweed (?the science of art of pronunciation?)
ii. That which deals with the written representation of the letter. This is known as ?ilm al-harf (?the science of orthography?), or ?ilm al-hijaa? (?the science of spelling?).
- Sciences related to the words, with regards their meaning and form. They fall into four sub-categories
i. That which deals with the meanings and connotations of words, and the vowelling of the words (on all but the last letters). This is known as ?ilm al-lughah (?the science of philology?).
ii. That which deals with the manner in which these words were attributed to their objects. This is known as ?ilm al-wad?.
iii. That which deals with the nature of the letters of these words, with regards to any additions, subtractions, transformations, exchanges, changes in the vowelling, and so on. This is known as ?ilm al-sarf (?the science of morphology?).
iv. That which deals with the origins and branches of the words, the relationship between them, and the manner in which some are formed from others. This is known as ?ilm al-ishtiqaaq (?the science of etymology?).
- Sciences related to the constructions, with regards their meaning and form. They fall into four sub-categories
i. That which deals with the relationship of some meanings to others, and the requirements of this relationship, as embodied in and indicated by the vowel on the end of each word. This is known as ?ilm al-nahw (?the science of syntax?).
ii. That which deals with the characteristics of speech composition by virtue of which they conform to the requirements of the occasion. This is known by ?ilm al-ma?aani (?the science of meanings?). This was considered the most important science of Arabic balaaghah (rhetoric) to the Arabs.
iii. That which deals with the different ways of expressing the various shades of a single meaning. This is known as ?ilm al-bayaan (?the science of style?).
iv. That which deals with the artistic embellishment of speech. This is known as ?ilm al-badi? (?the science of rhetorical figures?).
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salam muslimthreadrevealed. writing twenty posts, quoting ibn batuta to abu jahil does not change anything or convince.
if you were on the correct path, one quotation from the quran is enough.
because your error ridden claims come from equally error ridden texts, the result is error ridden conclusions.
human nature is, when defending a position for which there is no authority, to throw everything from everywhere, that one may work.
you have done this, throw everything from everywhere, none of them work.allah is the truth.
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A critic is a legless man who teaches running. -- Anonymous
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Salaam alaikum.
salam siki. i have not see any verse in the quran that says nikah is a contract. for this reason i avoid making such a claim.
a contract is an exchange, performance in exchange for consideration. prostitution is a contract, an exchange of money for services. prostitution is in some jusrisdictions and illegal contract, and a legal contract in other jurisdictions. this is another reason why in civil law, we do not say marriage is a contract, because then it becomes another form of prostitution.
What? A Nikah is indeed a contract! with an exchange of saduqat and verbal consent with rights and obligations for both parties. Whether this is in written form or not the fact is inescapable it is a contract.
Nikah is indeed a type of contract or transaction. According to 2/282, transactions are of two types
- Tijaara
- Bayee
Both types of transactions can be made with women, (tijara in 28/27 and bayee' in 60/12)
While the Quran commands believers that all transactions should be written down, it does not say that if it is not written down it is not a transaction. Therefore a transaction can be verbal or written.
Prostitution is also a transaction, but being a transaction is not the problem. The problem is that it is polyandrous.
if you examine the usage of the quran, you will see, the requirement of obediance is not just imposed on wives, it is imposed on women, which would be consistent with the above understanding.
Absolute nonsense.
Al Araf's understanding is turning marriage into the only legalized form of slavery. Worse yet, he is stating that women should obey men.
Under this understanding, the man is the woman's illah, for she obey's him and not Allah.
One cannot have two masters. Either a person is obedient to Allah or his creation.
Being obedient to Allah's creation is what shaitan encourages not Allah and certainly not a believer.Obedience is due to four authorities
Allah and His rasool
Parents
Husband
Oolul amrA man is a woman's ilah only if she is obeying him in matters already dealt with in Allah's book.
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salam fahad. you did not think of the conseqeunces of what you posted.
you claim marriage is a contract. there is no verse in the quran that says nikah is a contract. in order to make this claim you would have to forge such an ayah. are you forging ayahs?
prostitution is a contract, the exchange of consideration for going in to a woman. if you make the claim that marriage is a contract you have made marriage equal to prostitution. the issue is not polyandry, the issue is a contract exchange of money for sex. when people are charged with the crime of prostitution, the evidence that is required is an exchange of money, and a promise of sexual services. nowhere in charging prostitution is the issue of polyandry required to be proven in evidence to support a conviction. therefore on this issue you are wrong.
this raises the issue of what is the closest term in english for a nikah, since this is the source of the confusion. judging by the ayah of the quran, the establishment of the rajal as kalleela, the closest english term for a nikah is a guardianship or conservatorship. this is why married women in saudi need the permission of their guardian for certain actions.
looking for contract and turning marriage into prostitution is an evil way. there is no support in the quran for this conclusion.
allah is the lawgiver.
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you claim marriage is a contract. there is no verse in the quran that says nikah is a contract. in order to make this claim you would have to forge such an ayah. are you forging ayahs?
Marriage invloves man giving ajar(recompense/wage) to the woman. Doesn't that make marriage a transaction?
prostitution is a contract, the exchange of consideration for going in to a woman. if you make the claim that marriage is a contract you have made marriage equal to prostitution. the issue is not polyandry, the issue is a contract exchange of money for sex.
Marriage also involves the exchange of consideration/ajar for going into a woman. So what is the difference between marriage and prostitution if not polyandry?
when people are charged with the crime of prostitution, the evidence that is required is an exchange of money, and a promise of sexual services. nowhere in charging prostitution is the issue of polyandry required to be proven in evidence to support a conviction. therefore on this issue you are wrong.
Does the Quran tell us to charge people as criminals for having sex in exchange of money?
this raises the issue of what is the closest term in english for a nikah, since this is the source of the confusion. judging by the ayah of the quran, the establishment of the rajal as kalleela, ....
Kalleela?
...the closest english term for a nikah is a guardianship or conservatorship.
I agree.
this is why married women in saudi need the permission of their guardian for certain actions.
"This is why"? You are implying that everything that goes on in saudi is Quranic.
looking for contract and turning marriage into prostitution is an evil way. there is no support in the quran for this conclusion.
What is so evil about prostitution other than polyandry? Sex for money is surely not evil, because thats what happens in a marriage.
you did not think of the conseqeunces of what you posted.
What is the consequence of sex for ajar?
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salam fahad. i should point out that a lot of the reason you are asking these questions, is because you have not rid yourself of a few beliefs. when you use pagan terms and concepts, then try and understan the quran, you immediately, will fail.
nikah is not marriage. when you make the mistake of saying marriage, then try to understand the quran, you end up in a mess. be very careful about the words you choose.
Marriage invloves man giving ajar(recompense/wage) to the woman. Doesn't that make marriage a transaction?
this is one example. i have not seen ajar given in a marriage. nor have i seen ajar made a requirement of a nikah. do you see how i separate the two? marriage may be a transaction depending on the laws of the jurisdiction. nikah is not a transaction, it is the creation of a legal entity.
Marriage also involves the exchange of consideration/ajar for going into a woman. So what is the difference between marriage and prostitution if not polyandry?
if the particular marriage in question involves the exchange of consideration for going into a woman, it is prostitution per se. in a nikah there is no exchange of consideration, there may be a mahr, a gift. a gift is not an exchange of consideration. again where are you brining this ajar issue from. i havent seen ajar in the quran as a nikah requirement.
Does the Quran tell us to charge people as criminals for having sex in exchange of money?
you know the answer to this question already. however, zina, prostitution, and the parties to zina, the zani and zanit, are condemned as engaging in fawahish, and there are tahrim, prohibitions, on whom they can nikah. if your defintion of those who violate the tahrim, things classified as haram, makes sin approximately equal to the term crime, then yes they are criminals.
Kalleela?
"ar rajal kaleela min an nisa"... "kalalat wa amrat"
kaleela is a term for which the closest english word is, greater. in other words, rajal kaleela min an nisa, translates approximately as, the guardian is greater than the women. or, the guardian has authority over the women. another use of this is, allah kaleela min al momineen."This is why"? You are implying that everything that goes on in saudi is Quranic.
you must keep your anti saudi prejudices out of the debate. when you remove your anti saudi prejudices, you will see the first word i used is "this" the term this is a singular word explicitly pointing to the single issue of why some saudi laws refer to the guardian of a woman. i did not use the plural terms, those or these. saudi usages, while far from perfect, do have relevance in the debate over the terms. after all mecca and medina are in the kingdom. the form of arabic spoken by the messenger of allah, was in fact hijazi arabic, and hijaz is part of the kingdom. the people of the kingdom who speak hijazi arabic as a mater of course have a beter understanding of the words of the quran, than those who dont speak hijazi arabic. when i see the members of this forum, some of whom use dictionaries and grammar books, mostly with catastrophically bad results, making claims that in all honesty are complete nonsense, you should credit the saudis for much kindness and grace, not jumping down their throat and jusitifiably berating them for the nonsense some of them come up with. then again i have berated some people, it had to be done, what they are claiming is outrageous.
What is so evil about prostitution other than polyandry? Sex for money is surely not evil, because thats what happens in a marriage.
i agree with you that marriage in most cases is sex for money, nikah is not marriage and is not sex for money. i agree that there is little difference between pagan marriages and prostitution. this despite the howls of pseudo offense i am going to hear on the subject. if you believe "sex for money is surely not evil" and this is your practice, then you fall under the tahrim, and could possibly be subject to the punishments, of your statement is construed to be an admission, an admission supersedes the four witness requirement, you would have witnessed yourself.
What is the consequence of sex for ajar?
please give me your defintion of ajar. then give me an example of the use of the term ajar in the quran. then tell me how you connected ajar with nikah.
allah is the lawgiver.
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"ar rajal kaleela min an nisa"... "kalalat wa amrat"
kaleela is a term for which the closest english word is, greater. in other words, rajal kaleela min an nisa, translates approximately as, the guardian is greater than the women. or, the guardian has authority over the women. another use of this is, allah kaleela min al momineen.Please write this word in Arabic, because it seems fahad is mixing it with another word. I would have done the same, too, but knowing your ignorance I can guess what word you mean, and you are still wrongly transliterating it. (Maybe it's not even what I am guessing, or maybe it's a word that does not exist in the qur'aan or elsewhere..Who knows
? Your surprises are unlimited). So the only solution to save you from me is to start by writing it in Arabic.Then, before ranting in accusation of those who "do not speak hijazi arabic" or those who "use the dictionaries', and to complete saving yourself, bring all the usages of this word in the qur'aan in their `full context" and prove to the members of this forum that it means "greater'.
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salam siki. because you do read the quran and are familiar with the ayats, i will paraphrase some verses to save time.
reading one ayat alone will not provide a full answer. putting together the ayats on the issue will reveal the existence of a complete legal entity, which resembles a guardianship. i say resembles, because the muslim guardianship has more legal powers than the pagan western guardianships.
the ayat say the rajal is established by allah over the women, because they are stronger than women and support them from their means, that righteous women guard. the rajal have the right and power to punish for disloyalty and ill conduct, and the range of punishment varies from admonishment to beating. the rajal has the right and power to issue the talaq or withhold the talaq as a discretionary decision.
this makes complete sense from a rational point of view. there is no need for police or government or court systems. the nikahs are self policing. if a rajal and woman are travelling in the desert, and she engages in ill conduct, the rajal has the power and right to punish her immediately for the conduct. the result is the women know their ill conduct will be exposed, they restrain themselves, and the families are stable raising children that arent subjected to the abuse of parents who have no restraint.
this is radically different from the pagan western law. under the pagan western law, if a woman is guilty of disloyalty of ill conduct, and she is travelling with her husband in the desert, the husband has no rights whatsoever to punish the woman. these idiotic cripples of western pagan laws have no provision for all circumstances. even if the couple live in a city, the women get the protection and support of the man, act abusively to their protector, and if he objects to being abused in this fashion, all she has to do is start screaming and crying accusing him of everything from child abuse to spousal abuse, and the innocent man is jailed. this is not only a crime to the husband, it is a crime to the children who suffer the abuse of unrestrained parents which result in a catastrophically wild and savage society. they believe in the incomprehensibly false idea that a judge and police who never viewed the incident are better judges of the wrongdoing than someone who was present and witnessed the conduct.
what is even more appaling is, in the instances where the woman is guilty of ill conduct, the person harmed is the husband. amazing the pagan western states deny and deprive the husband of his right to retribution. western pagan laws arbitrarily make the state a party, to an incident in which the state was never the party. the end result is the husband suffers the injury, and the state gets the retribution. there is no equity whatsoever in the pagan western system.
for those who think i use the term pagan lightly, you are mistaken. western laws are based on the logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum. if the majority of people agree to a law, this is their law. the majority of people is a godless ruler, and a godless law is a pagan law. many women prefer this pagan law to what allah has established, because they can get away with their crimes in the pagan western system.
allah is the truth.
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if a rajal and woman are travelling in the desert, and she engages in ill conduct, the rajal has the power and right to punish her immediately for the conduct.
Ok can you explain how a rajal like yourself, would punish his wife immediately if the above incident occurs?
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salam farida. the decision about timing of punishment is mubah. there is no guidance on when the punishment should be adminstered.
inshallah, allah's guidance is without error, and if allah leaves the timing to the discretion of the rajal, then there is great wisdom in that decision. there are times when the punishment must be carried out immediately and in front of others, because not to do so would encourage ill conduct in others. there are times when the punishment must be delayed and carried out in private, because there are other issues that would mitigate against a public punishment. each instance depends on the facts and circumstances of the incident.
allah is the best of those who teach.
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salam farida. i have answered your question. there is nothing further to answer to you.
you are switching between what the rules are for a believer and my personal business. let me give you an example of immediate punishment.
you are admonished right now for attempting to violate the privacy of those in my right hand. dont do it again.allah is the best of those who teach.
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salam farida. i have answered your question. there is nothing further to answer to you.
you are switching between what the rules are for a believer and my personal business.
Finally you admitted that there is a difference between you and a believer bravo
you are admonished right now for attempting to violate the privacy of those in my right hand. dont do it again.
You do have right hand personal possessions laugh yay elektro
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salam siki. because you do read the quran and are familiar with the ayats, i will paraphrase some verses to save time.
reading one ayat alone will not provide a full answer. putting together the ayats on the issue will reveal the existence of a complete legal entity, which resembles a guardianship. i say resembles, because the muslim guardianship has more legal powers than the pagan western guardianships.
the ayat say the rajal is established by allah over the women, because they are stronger than women and support them from their means, that righteous women guard. the rajal have the right and power to punish for disloyalty and ill conduct, and the range of punishment varies from admonishment to beating. the rajal has the right and power to issue the talaq or withhold the talaq as a discretionary decision.
this makes complete sense from a rational point of view. there is no need for police or government or court systems. the nikahs are self policing. if a rajal and woman are travelling in the desert, and she engages in ill conduct, the rajal has the power and right to punish her immediately for the conduct. the result is the women know their ill conduct will be exposed, they restrain themselves, and the families are stable raising children that arent subjected to the abuse of parents who have no restraint.
this is radically different from the pagan western law. under the pagan western law, if a woman is guilty of disloyalty of ill conduct, and she is travelling with her husband in the desert, the husband has no rights whatsoever to punish the woman. these idiotic cripples of western pagan laws have no provision for all circumstances. even if the couple live in a city, the women get the protection and support of the man, act abusively to their protector, and if he objects to being abused in this fashion, all she has to do is start screaming and crying accusing him of everything from child abuse to spousal abuse, and the innocent man is jailed. this is not only a crime to the husband, it is a crime to the children who suffer the abuse of unrestrained parents which result in a catastrophically wild and savage society. they believe in the incomprehensibly false idea that a judge and police who never viewed the incident are better judges of the wrongdoing than someone who was present and witnessed the conduct.
what is even more appaling is, in the instances where the woman is guilty of ill conduct, the person harmed is the husband. amazing the pagan western states deny and deprive the husband of his right to retribution. western pagan laws arbitrarily make the state a party, to an incident in which the state was never the party. the end result is the husband suffers the injury, and the state gets the retribution. there is no equity whatsoever in the pagan western system.
for those who think i use the term pagan lightly, you are mistaken. western laws are based on the logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum. if the majority of people agree to a law, this is their law. the majority of people is a godless ruler, and a godless law is a pagan law. many women prefer this pagan law to what allah has established, because they can get away with their crimes in the pagan western system.
allah is the truth.
Sure, you have some valid points, and sense in what you have posted above, however , i would like you disect some relevent verses on nikah for education sake.
siki
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salam fahad. i should point out that a lot of the reason you are asking these questions, is because you have not rid yourself of a few beliefs.
Wa salaam.
That?s just not true.
when you use pagan terms and concepts, then try and understan the quran, you immediately, will fail.
If.
nikah is not marriage. when you make the mistake of saying marriage, then try to understand the quran, you end up in a mess. be very careful about the words you choose.
I was only using the words already chosen by you.
Marriage invloves man giving ajar(recompense/wage) to the woman. Doesn't that make marriage a transaction?
this is one example. i have not seen ajar given in a marriage. nor have i seen ajar made a requirement of a nikah. do you see how i separate the two? marriage may be a transaction depending on the laws of the jurisdiction. nikah is not a transaction, it is the creation of a legal entity.
Please scroll down to the bottom to see ajar made a requirement for nikah.
Marriage also involves the exchange of consideration/ajar for going into a woman. So what is the difference between marriage and prostitution if not polyandry?
if the particular marriage in question involves the exchange of consideration for going into a woman, it is prostitution per se.
Ok, call it whatever you want to. But Kindly provide reference to where the Quran forbids exchange of consideration for going into a woman.
in a nikah there is no exchange of consideration, there may be a mahr, a gift. a gift is not an exchange of consideration. again where are you brining this ajar issue from. i havent seen ajar in the quran as a nikah requirement.
Where does the Quran mention ?mahr? for nikah?
Does the Quran tell us to charge people as criminals for having sex in exchange of money?
you know the answer to this question already.
I know the answer and the answer is no. Quran does not tell us to charge people as criminals for having sex in exchange of money.
however, zina, prostitution, and the parties to zina, the zani and zanit, are condemned as engaging in fawahish, and there are tahrim, prohibitions, on whom they can nikah. if your defintion of those who violate the tahrim, things classified as haram, makes sin approximately equal to the term crime, then yes they are criminals.
Where does the Quran define az-zina as sex for consideration?
Kalleela?
"ar rajal kaleela min an nisa"... "kalalat wa amrat"
kaleela is a term for which the closest english word is, greater. in other words, rajal kaleela min an nisa, translates approximately as, the guardian is greater than the women. or, the guardian has authority over the women. another use of this is, allah kaleela min al momineen.Is there any verse that says this kaleela thing for men? Or are you confusing it qawwamun in 4/34?
"This is why"? You are implying that everything that goes on in saudi is Quranic.
you must keep your anti saudi prejudices out of the debate.
I don?t have any anti-saudi prejudice nor any reason to have one. Maybe you have a pro-saudi prejudice, maybe also a reason to have one? You are from the Saudi, right?
when you remove your anti saudi prejudices, you will see the first word i used is "this" the term this is a singular word explicitly pointing to the single issue of why some saudi laws refer to the guardian of a woman. i did not use the plural terms, those or these.
Your saying ?this is why? implies that this is the rule in Saudi, that if the Quran says so, the Saudis do so. Whether you say "this is (the reason) why" or "those are (the reasons) why", it doesn't make any difference to what you are implying.
saudi usages, while far from perfect, do have relevance in the debate over the terms. after all mecca and medina are in the kingdom. the form of arabic spoken by the messenger of allah, was in fact hijazi arabic, and hijaz is part of the kingdom. the people of the kingdom who speak hijazi arabic as a mater of course have a beter understanding of the words of the quran, than those who dont speak hijazi arabic. when i see the members of this forum, some of whom use dictionaries and grammar books, mostly with catastrophically bad results, making claims that in all honesty are complete nonsense, you should credit the saudis for much kindness and grace, not jumping down their throat and jusitifiably berating them for the nonsense some of them come up with. then again i have berated some people, it had to be done, what they are claiming is outrageous.
Doesn?t matter whether the words are from hijazi Arabic or dictionary Arabic, they have to be confirmed by the Quranic usage(46/12).
What is so evil about prostitution other than polyandry? Sex for money is surely not evil, because thats what happens in a marriage.
i agree with you that marriage in most cases is sex for money, nikah is not marriage and is not sex for money. i agree that there is little difference between pagan marriages and prostitution. this despite the howls of pseudo offense i am going to hear on the subject. if you believe "sex for money is surely not evil" and this is your practice, then you fall under the tahrim, and could possibly be subject to the punishments, of your statement is construed to be an admission, an admission supersedes the four witness requirement, you would have witnessed yourself.
If only you could show me where sex for money is referred to as az-zina in the Quran.
What is the consequence of sex for ajar?
please give me your defintion of ajar.
The consideration/wage/recompense/reward in exchange of a service rendered is ?ajar?.
then give me an example of the use of the term ajar in the quran.
?Ajar? is the consideration/wage/recompense involved in a "tijaarat" (35/29-30).
then tell me how you connected ajar with nikah.
In context of nikah, 4/24 says ...And permitted for you are all beyond those(forbidden categories of women), that you seek with your amwaal/wealth/money, muhsineen without being musafiheen, therefore those that you have enjoyed with it(i.e. your wealth/money) from them, give them their ujoor/wages as a fareeza...
Alright? Now tell me the consequence of sex for ajar.
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let me give you an example of immediate punishment.
you are admonished right now for attempting to violate the privacy of those in my right hand. dont do it again.Salaam Al Araf.
What makes you think that you can "punish" other people's women as well for disobeying you? i.e. women not related to you. Any reference you can provide for this?
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salam fahad. the word you are referring to ajr, means reward. if allah rewards a momin with jannat this is not a wage. i see where the confusion is coming from, some translations are claiming ajr means wages. no akhi this is where arabic and english depart ways. english has vague usages for the term reward which is causing the confusion.
allah is the teacher.