All Mighty God?
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Peace "tay",
Peace Diem,
This is a paradoxical question that comes up now and again. There's no perfect answer, unfortunately. The way I understand it is this the future is NOT pre-written. It is dynamic, changing every moment with every decision made. however, there are not an infinite amount of decisions made. There are limits.
JK- This remark of yours contradicts the Quran for it states
No one dies except by GOD's leave, at a predetermined time...
So if we decide to kill someone and it is not in GOD's Will then He would need to supernaturally intervene and save them but how many survivors coming out from an attempted murder were actually saved due to a supernatural cause? On the other hand if humans are kept alive artificially then GOD would have to intervene in order for tht person to die. How many supernatural deaths have been shown in all those millions of people surviving artificially on machines? THUS if someone decides to kill someone it must ultimately still be GOD Whos planned this and it is for a reason and the other way around too. GOD is doing everything and the following verse makes it clear
Wherever you are, death will catch up with you, even if you live in formidable castles. When something good happens to them, they say, "This is from GOD," and when something bad afflicts them, they blame you. Say, "Everything comes from GOD." Why do these people misunderstand almost everything?
The next verse MUST BE talking from a RELATIVE PT OF REFERENCE as in the absolute sense everything is from GOD. Also notice this verse whoch makes it even more clear
Whatever you will is in accordance with the will of GOD, Lord of the universe.
Thus our free will only exists in our relative frame of reference and is an illusion in absolute terms as is the "we" itself.In it's simplest form, imagine a mouse in a maze. There is one entrance and many exits, and many forks along the way. Now with each turn at each fork, the overall path becomes apparent. The observer can see where the mouse is headed. And then again with the next fork, and the next one.
It's easy to see that God can in fact know where you're headed while not dictating your direction.
Peace,
TayJK- Are you saying that GOD did not know the smaller paths in between? Moreover big events like murder and rape all depend on our free will too you know and as stated earlier GOD has fixed our point of death. Also 8129 leaves no doubt that all that we will is ultimately controlled by GOD.
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Peace "rami",
JK- The Quran clearly state that GOD's system NEVER CHANGES and also that everything happens at a fixed time. Thus theres no need for any intervention every now and then by GOD.
This has been consistently the case with all the messengers that we sent before you, and you will find that our system never changes.
GOD never delays the appointed time of death for any soul. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.JK- GOD never delays the appointed time of death for any soul. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.
JK- I was talking about our, the human soul. Where is that supposedly? GOD Bless!
Peace.
- You do realize that in physics, anything is possible right? If I were to try to walk through this wall that is in front of me, there is a small chance that it might happen. The chance is astronomically small, but it still exists. There is a chance that all the particles in my body will quantum tunnel in the next few seconds to Mars. Again, the chance for this happening is astronomically small, but it can still happen. My point is that in quantum mechanics, anything is possible; the universe runs on this system. Therefore, if God chose to suddenly make all the particles that make up my body move to a different location, He would not be doing anything that would change the beautiful and orderly system He has created since in that system everything is possible.
- I read 1777 and the verses leading up to it, and I do not see any connection between those verses and the order of the universe.
- Concerning the location of the soul, it doesn't matter where it is, but I don't believe that it has any physical characteristics.
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Peace "Bosnian Thinker",
Peace.
- You do realize that in physics, anything is possible right? If I were to try to walk through this wall that is in front of me, there is a small chance that it might happen. The chance is astronomically small, but it still exists. There is a chance that all the particles in my body will quantum tunnel in the next few seconds to Mars. Again, the chance for this happening is astronomically small, but it can still happen. My point is that in quantum mechanics, anything is possible; the universe runs on this system. Therefore, if God chose to suddenly make all the particles that make up my body move to a different location, He would not be doing anything that would change the beautiful and orderly system He has created since in that system everything is possible.
JK- It would mean He made a mistake and now needs to intervene in order to correct things. This goes against GOD's System clearly. Btw by what your proposing ALL RLIGIONS including the most pagan and absurd ones can claim to be correct. It's interesting hindus, like Deepak Chopra, use quantum pseudoscience alot. Youve got to be very careful with quatum physics. It's not something magical as you or many think. It's just that our devices dont allow us to directly observe those particles and hence we need probability to get the locality of them at any moment.
- I read 1777 and the verses leading up to it, and I do not see any connection between those verses and the order of the universe.
JK- Here are more
This is GOD's eternal SYSTEM, and you will find that GOD's SYSTEM is unCHANGEable.They resorted to arrogance on earth, and evil scheming, and the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them. Should they then expect anything but the fate of those who did the same things in the past? You will find that GOD's SYSTEM is never CHANGEable; you will find that GOD's SYSTEM is immutable.
Such is GOD's SYSTEM throughout history, and you will find that GOD's SYSTEM is unCHANGEable.
The important point to note is that everything follows a fixed course laid down by GOD and theres thus no intervention.
- Concerning the location of the soul, it doesn't matter where it is, but I don't believe that it has any physical characteristics.
JK- So according to you the soul is not made up of any stuff/substance? It has to be made of one type of substance or another otherwise it doesnt make any sense at all. Please explain what you think it's made up off as this is the CORE ISSUE of all religions. GOD Bless!
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Hey guys,
I'm a muslim that has discovered your site and the "God Only" movement and I'v learned a lot of new things and been able to make my faith stronger. I have a question that I'v been thinking about for a while,
If God knows everything that is going to happen, what is the point of creating humans if he knows what they are going to do? What I have been taught for my whole life is that god created humans to see who would worship him and who wouldn't, but he already knows so whats the point?Peace,
Respectfully.My answer would be this because He can. He simply can.
God knows best.Peace.
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Peace.
Peace "Bosnian Thinker",
JK- It would mean He made a mistake and now needs to intervene in order to correct things. This goes against GOD's System clearly. Btw by what your proposing ALL RLIGIONS including the most pagan and absurd ones can claim to be correct. It's interesting hindus, like Deepak Chopra, use quantum pseudoscience alot. Youve got to be very careful with quatum physics. It's not something magical as you or many think. It's just that our devices dont allow us to directly observe those particles and hence we need probability to get the locality of them at any moment.
When a particle is analyzed, such as an electron, it is best analyzed as probability cloud. You cannot know both the exact position and momentum of a particle, and the more you know of one, the less you know about the other; this is the core of the principle of uncertainity. Each particle is ascribed a probability cloud, which tells you what the chance is that the particle will be in position A, what the chance is that the particle will be in position B, and so on. This cloud is spread accross the entire universe, but the farther and farther you get from the source, the smaller the chance gets. This doesn't mean that the particle has to be in the core; it only means that there's a higher chance of it being there than anywhere else. Have you ever heard of the experiments in which a photon and an electron are shot, and the electron arrives at the end faster than the photon, even though the photon travels at 300, 000km/s and is the cosmic speed limit (at least that's what most physicists think) ? This happens because the electron quantum tunnels; it "teleports" from one point to another. What you're saying is that if we had the technology to see a particle, there would be no more probability cloud and we could be 100% certain of its position. I agree, however, that doesn't mean that it can't quantum tunnel. Is there is a physicist in the house to help us out here? confused
It seems to me that according to you, God never intervines in our lives or the workings of the universe. If this was true, then asking God for something would be pointless and a waste of time as far as I can tell.
Peace "Bosnian Thinker",
JK- Here are more
This is GOD's eternal SYSTEM, and you will find that GOD's SYSTEM is unCHANGEable.They resorted to arrogance on earth, and evil scheming, and the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them. Should they then expect anything but the fate of those who did the same things in the past? You will find that GOD's SYSTEM is never CHANGEable; you will find that GOD's SYSTEM is immutable.
Such is GOD's SYSTEM throughout history, and you will find that GOD's SYSTEM is unCHANGEable.
The important point to note is that everything follows a fixed course laid down by GOD and theres thus no intervention.
I read all three of these verses and the verses leading up to them; I do not see any connection between them and the order of the universe.
JK- So according to you the soul is not made up of any stuff/substance? It has to be made of one type of substance or another otherwise it doesnt make any sense at all. Please explain what you think it's made up off as this is the CORE ISSUE of all religions. GOD Bless!
In this universe, there is matter, energy, space, and time. All of these are things God created with His unlimited power. Anything that is in this universe has to be made up of matter or energy ( both of these are actually two different forms of the same thing, which I call menergy ), it has to be at a certain point in space, and it has to exist in time. That's this universe. There might be other "universes" beyond ours which have completely different laws of physics or perhaps no physics at all, they might have more than one dimension of time, or no time at all, they might have more than three spatial dimensions, or they might not have space at all, and they might or might not have matter and/or energy. The fact is that there could be "universes" outside of ours that do not posses any of the characteristics that our universe does and which would not make any sense to us at all. Perhaps our souls lie in such a universe. My point is that the "location" of the soul doesn't matter, and that we might not be able to even comprehend it. God's power is not limited to creating things out of space, time, matter, and energy alone; He can make whatever He wants. We can't understand everything; we can't completely understand God, and I don't think we can competely understand the soul. Perhaps the soul is something physical as you believe ( and I'm sure the guy who measured the mass of the soul would agree with you ), but I don't think so. Peace. ) ) )
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Dear Alen,
An Omnipotent God can destroy us all in a fraction of a second, regardless of the qualities of our deeds. Can He not?God is The All Able; He can do whatever He wants.
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Dear Dime,
I think you missed my last post and still asking for explanation. Let me try again in a simple way. Please keep in mind that I am presenting my understanding so I have to give judgments according to my understanding. If you find me telling you wrong is only due to my understanding and not because it is a truth or a fact. So please don?t get it as personal attack.
Your assumptions are wrong in many ways due to your misunderstandings regarding His system.I think basic problem may be that you are assuming that GOD has decided the outcome of everything in this world and the hereafter.
If you consider that he makes or does everything and he knows what we will do then it is an assumption by you. I have not found any verse telling us this fact. The verses where God tells us that the outcome of these worldly affairs is according to his will and he makes those things happen then this is understandable but if you assume from these kinds of verses that he has decided the outcome of the hereafter too then that is the point where the real mess begins.
Your explanation is simple enough to understand - God knows the future but does not create it - but that was not the question.
Maybe you have not paid attention to my question. I'll try to give you an example, lets say I wanted to know the outcome of an act before I do it. In this case I want to know what will happen if I get hit by a car. Common sense dictates that I will die or get severely injured. Now, it is pointless to test my reasoning by actually going out onto a highway and standing in front of a speeding car.
In a similar way, God knows the outcome of creating humans, thus making the act of creating humans pointless and redundant since the outcome is known previous to the act being committed.
I hope you understand my example. peace
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Hey guys,
I'm a muslim that has discovered your site and the "God Only" movement and I'v learned a lot of new things and been able to make my faith stronger. I have a question that I'v been thinking about for a while,If God knows everything that is going to happen, what is the point of creating humans if he knows what they are going to do? What I have been taught for my whole life is that god created humans to see who would worship him and who wouldn't, but he already knows so whats the point?
Dear Diem, Salaam.
You say, you are a Muslim. By definition, a Muslim is a "Submitter to God's Will". As a Muslim you must believe in His Words and Commandments, i.e., The Qur'an. God Willing as a Muslim you do so. Then if it is so, why this kind of questions come to your mind that I think no human will be able to have a clear-cut and satisfactory answer for you. I can ask all kinds of non sense questions just like yours. For example Can God create a rock that is so big and heavy that He won't be able to move it? If you say Yes, then God becomes an UNABLE god who can NOT move the rock. On the other hand, if you say No, then again He will be an UNABLE god in creating such a rock. Completely a non sense kind of question.
Secondly, as a Muslim, i.e., a Submitter to God's Will, what is it that you want to prove/achieve by asking this non relevant, non essential, time consuming, aimless..... to our cause kind of questions?
Thirdly, Instead, why don't you as a God fearing, God loving, Sincere Muslim spend all this time and energy in His cause and act like as you claim, i.e. as a whole-heartedly believer?
Forth, again leave God's business to God. As He Commands us in The Qur'an, just "LISTEN & OBEY", this is His covenant which we are obligated under, before Him. Believe me, the true happiness is SUBMISSION TO GOD ALONE.
Fifth, I am all for all kinds of scientific and logical dialogues and debates that are helpful in the betterment of our cause and/relations, God Willing.
With Salaam, Khalil.
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Dear Dime,
Please read your example again.
I'll try to give you an example, lets say I wanted to know the outcome of an act before I do it. In this case I want to know what will happen if I get hit by a car. Common sense dictates that I will die or get severely injured. Now, it is pointless to test my reasoning by actually going out onto a highway and standing in front of a speeding car.
Regardless of your commonsense you are talking about a certain circumstances that is hit by a car. Brother there are lot of other possibilities which you seem to be unaware of. One can be that you get minor injuries. Other than that your act is to go in front of a car which has many other possibilities too, like driver can stop in time, driver can turn the steering on other side to save you and can hurt himself in the process etc. In that context I was telling you that our Future is not forced on us but the circumstances are surely forced.
If you consider that God makes or does everything and he knows what we will do then it is an assumption by you. I have not found any verse telling us this fact. The verses where God tells us that the outcome of these worldly affairs is according to his will and he makes those things happen then this is understandable by me because what I have understood by Quran is that we are here to prove our faith in God and He creates (forced) circumstances just to test us and not because he knows what we will do. Definitely God has the power to do anything but God also tells that he does not change his nature(ways) but if you assume from these kinds of verses that he has decided the outcome of the hereafter too then that is the point where the real mess begins. To Explain The whole system to you will not be possible in these posts.
Regards.
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Peace "tay",
Peace Johnny,
Predestiny and justice cannot coexist. If one's death is predetermined, then every step along the way is predetermined, and thus those that strayed were "designed" to stray and, hence, suffer. There is no other way to reconcile it.
Peace,
TayJK- The term "justice" too only exists in a RELATIVE FRAME OF REFERENCE. It is part of the causal continuum. Neurologists today know that a murderer has done his deeds because of the actions and reactions taking place in his/her neurons at the time YET these same people don't say that justice shouldn't be carried out BECAUSE THAT TOO is part of their neural response. In the animal world it could even have been that if at a certain point a certain animal didnt forcefully mate with a female our chain of ancestry would never have been setup and so wed never exist. Furthermore we are not the end product but just a part in the infinite continuum. So everything has a reason no matter how absurd it may seem to us RELATIVELY. GOD Bless!
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Peace "BT",
Peace.
When a particle is analyzed, such as an electron, it is best analyzed as probability cloud. You cannot know both the exact position and momentum of a particle, and the more you know of one, the less you know about the other; this is the core of the principle of uncertainity.
JK- This is true and is so because of the observation limits we have at that level.
Each particle is ascribed a probability cloud, which tells you what the chance is that the particle will be in position A, what the chance is that the particle will be in position B, and so on. This cloud is spread accross the entire universe, but the farther and farther you get from the source, the smaller the chance gets. This doesn't mean that the particle has to be in the core; it only means that there's a higher chance of it being there than anywhere else. Have you ever heard of the experiments in which a photon and an electron are shot, and the electron arrives at the end faster than the photon, even though the photon travels at 300, 000km/s and is the cosmic speed limit (at least that's what most physicists think) ? This happens because the electron quantum tunnels; it "teleports" from one point to another. What you're saying is that if we had the technology to see a particle, there would be no more probability cloud and we could be 100% certain of its position. I agree, however, that doesn't mean that it can't quantum tunnel. Is there is a physicist in the house to help us out here? confused
JK- I agree this is a complex issue. And as far as the tunnelling is concerned that too has it's causes but wed hardly be able to analyse them from our reference point.
It seems to me that according to you, God never intervines in our lives or the workings of the universe. If this was true, then asking God for something would be pointless and a waste of time as far as I can tell.
JK- NO, asking for help in the right way could be an effective way of SELF SUGGESTION WHICH GOD PROGRAMMED INTO OUR BRAINS. This could certainly bring about positive results.
I read all three of these verses and the verses leading up to them; I do not see any connection between them and the order of the universe.
In this universe, there is matter, energy, space, and time. All of these are things God created with His unlimited power. Anything that is in this universe has to be made up of matter or energy ( both of these are actually two different forms of the same thing, which I call menergy ), it has to be at a certain point in space, and it has to exist in time. That's this universe. There might be other "universes" beyond ours which have completely different laws of physics or perhaps no physics at all, they might have more than one dimension of time, or no time at all, they might have more than three spatial dimensions, or they might not have space at all, and they might or might not have matter and/or energy. The fact is that there could be "universes" outside of ours that do not posses any of the characteristics that our universe does and which would not make any sense to us at all. Perhaps our souls lie in such a universe. My point is that the "location" of the soul doesn't matter, and that we might not be able to even comprehend it. God's power is not limited to creating things out of space, time , matter, and energy alone; He can make whatever He wants. We can't understand everything; we can't completely understand God, and I don't think we can competely understand the soul. Perhaps the soul is something physical as you believe ( and I'm sure the guy who measured the mass of the soul would agree with you ), but I don't think so. Peace. ) ) )
JK- There has to be an infininite no of universes out there and also an infinite no of energy. Thats inevitable because every effect has to have a cause all the way to infinity and i dont see why GOD Whos Power is Infinite would create only one universe. We as observers are blocked to observe this infinite energy by the planck's constant(smallest wavelength of photons possible in our universe) and this is how a universe is setup otherwise thered be infinite amount of light all around us and we cldnt exist as individuals. The baisc point to remeber is. For every universe GOD would have FIXED laws. Intervening and violating His own laws in any particular universe every now and then would not magnify GOD it would GOD forbid degrade Him and is not something to be appreciatec. GOD Bless!
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Peace.
JK- NO, asking for help in the right way could be an effective way of SELF SUGGESTION WHICH GOD PROGRAMMED INTO OUR BRAINS. This could certainly bring about positive results.
JK- There has to be an infininite no of universes out there and also an infinite no of energy. Thats inevitable because every effect has to have a cause all the way to infinity and i dont see why GOD Whos Power is Infinite would create only one universe. We as observers are blocked to observe this infinite energy by the planck's constant(smallest wavelength of photons possible in our universe) and this is how a universe is setup otherwise thered be infinite amount of light all around us and we cldnt exist as individuals. The baisc point to remeber is. For every universe GOD would have FIXED laws. Intervening and violating His own laws in any particular universe every now and then would not magnify GOD it would GOD forbid degrade Him and is not something to be appreciatec. GOD Bless!
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There does not have to be an infinite number of universes nor does there have to be an infinite amount of energy. This is a theory of yours ( one that many scientists share ), but it's not a fact.
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God's power has no limit; He is The All Able. None of us can understand God. Nobody can understand God except for God.
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You believe in what I call the Infinite Wheel of Cause and Effect. Remember, in this universe there is a cause for every effect and there is an effect for every cause. Many people use this idea to make the stupid argument where they say something like " If God created the universe, then who created God?" This is ridicilous! Nobody created God, and as I have said before, we will never be able to understand God completely. There are some things that will always be out of our reach.
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You say you don't understand why God would create only one universe. So what? God knows best the reasons for why He does certain things and why He doesn't do others. God might make something happen to you which to you would seem like a bad thing, but in the end you see that it was actually a good thing. Again, we cannot understand God!!!
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Concerning light, you were talking about Olber's Paradox. The paradox was that since there were so many light sources in the sky ( such as stars ), then the night sky should be brighter than the daytime sky because when all that light from those sources reached Earth, the sky should've become very bright due to all this incoming light. The reason for why this isn't the actual situation is because as light is emitted, it's frequency decreases over time, which makes for less powerful light rays. For example, light could be emitted in gamma form from a star and reach the Earth in radio form. Also, the atmosphere blocks out several forms of light.
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You don't know how many universes exist, nor do you know whether God has made fixed rules for all of them. Consider Hell, for example. Hell might be in its own universe. The Quran says that there are seven universes, but what that means is open to interpretation. Hell might exst in its own universe in which there are no fixed rules, in which there is no fixed system. Maybe there's fire that doesn't obey physics or something like that, but instead moves randomly. Another point I want to make is that many physicists believe that over the course of time since this universe's beginning, there might have been fluctuations in the universes fundemental physical values, which would then affect all the constants of the universe meaning that the physics of this universe could have changed over time. This especially appears true when getting closer and closer to the Planck Epoch, which is a period of the universe that nobody understands.
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This comment is about your first sentence. You need to explain your idea a bit further.
I could write a lot more, but this is it for now. If you don't understand something, please tell me.
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Peace JK and Bosnian thinker
About cause and effect. Just wanted to point out the concepts i learnt in Philosophy.
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Everything that is contingent has a cause. You cannot have an infinite number of causes as something must have started the chain link of causes. Hence there must be an uncaused cause, something that is outside of the contingency cycle that starts the chain. This is God. (Thomas Aquinas)
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Cause and effect is just the way our mind has been setup to analyse the universe. The truth could be otherwise. (Kant)
Personally i agree with the 1st one but i think Kant also has a good point. There might be something beyond cause and effect that we can't properly precieve. Becuase i believe in God i think that this mind setup guides us to the truth in which the law of cause and effect is the truth.
Ultimately i agree with Thomas Aquinas.
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Your explanation is simple enough to understand - God knows the future but does not create it - but that was not the question.
Maybe you have not paid attention to my question. I'll try to give you an example, lets say I wanted to know the outcome of an act before I do it. In this case I want to know what will happen if I get hit by a car. Common sense dictates that I will die or get severely injured. Now, it is pointless to test my reasoning by actually going out onto a highway and standing in front of a speeding car.
In a similar way, God knows the outcome of creating humans, thus making the act of creating humans pointless and redundant since the outcome is known previous to the act being committed.
I hope you understand my example. peace
Peace Diem
I'll try and use your own example to try and convey my understanding in which currently i believe God knows the outcome of everything.
Say that i know that if I stand in the middle of a motorway the 100% deffinate outcome is that i will get hit by a car, die and go to Heaven.
Before i do this act, i know that this is 100% what will happen. As going to Heaven is a good outcome, i go ahead and put my plan into action.
Similarly with God, my understanding is that he knows what the outcome of our creation will be. As it will be let's say a good outcome, God created us possibly so as to put the plan into action.
I would'nt go to heaven if i did not stand in the middle of the motorway. Similarly, PERHAPS God's plan would not have it's outcome if he did not put it into action.
I hope you understood my example
If i have failed to answer any part of your question, please let me know so i can have another try ) -
Peace!
Peace JK and Bosnian thinker
- Everything that is contingent has a cause. You cannot have an infinite number of causes as something must have started the chain link of causes. Hence there must be an uncaused cause, something that is outside of the contingency cycle that starts the chain.
bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo
Like I have said before, we CAN'T understand God. He has no beginning and He was not created; He is The Creator.
I was wondering if you had an opinion on what I'm about to say. It's possible that there is a universe out there that has no time. That would mean that everything happens at once. What would be the situation of cause and effect there? Obviously there was a cause that lead to the creation of that universe, and the creation of it would be the effect. But what about cause and effect after that point? I find this a bit confusing.
Peace.
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Hey guys,
I'm a muslim that has discovered your site and the "God Only" movement and I'v learned a lot of new things and been able to make my faith stronger. I have a question that I'v been thinking about for a while,If God knows everything that is going to happen, what is the point of creating humans if he knows what they are going to do? What I have been taught for my whole life is that god created humans to see who would worship him and who wouldn't, but he already knows so whats the point?
peace be upon you,
if GOD would put the disbelivers in hell before the creation, they would claim that they don't deserve it, and that they didn't know how terrible it was. but GOD makes them experience this life, so that they are fully aware that they deserve hellfire.
why?because GOD has decreed that the truth shall overcome falsehood
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Peace!
bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo
Like I have said before, we CAN'T understand God. He has no beginning and He was not created; He is The Creator.
I was wondering if you had an opinion on what I'm about to say. It's possible that there is a universe out there that has no time. That would mean that everything happens at once. What would be the situation of cause and effect there? Obviously there was a cause that lead to the creation of that universe, and the creation of it would be the effect. But what about cause and effect after that point? I find this a bit confusing.
Peace.
Peace Bosnian thinker
Sorry for the late reply. I need to check the forum of this site more often.
About what you said about the universe without time.
I've never given thought to such a concept. It is interesting.
Currently I think such a universe does not exist or if a universe like that exists then for it to be without time it would put it outside of our laws and as we humans are part of the laws of this universe, we would not have any clue as to how any concept like cause and effect could apply to it.
One thing you said though was that this timeless universe would have had a cause and that the effect would be it's creation. With what we understand, would'nt that already put some sort of time on this universe?
I mean like it had a begining. Dosn't that make it time related??
But then again we only understand the laws of this universe.Perhaps only God is an exception to time.
What do you think?