Muhammad is a White Man?
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Peace,
Al-Khidr, thanks for the three posts but I'll have to beg to differ. Basharun can be one human being or the collective for all human beings. Same with Insaan. You can say 'Al-khidr huwa insaanun, lahu kullul-huqooq mustihaqqatun li ayi basharin aakharin'
That is Al-Khidr is a human being, and he has all of the rights that any other human being is entitled to.
So basharun (indefinite) is one person or some group of people, same goes for insaanun. When you put al in front of it that makes it humanity in general. Both of these words can be used in an individual and collective way. In the Quran you will aslo find insun, used as a collective only. And inseeyun used individually only.
I know you'll be hardpressed to accept that but just do the research, that way it won't become personal argument of my word against yours.
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam Anwar/Progod
You have said
?Basharun can be one human being or the collective for all human beings.?
I have read your response but Anwar if I?m correct we are talking about Bashar in Qur?aan 1528, I?m I right?
http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/Egypt%20and%20Islaam/Ch15v28hamaablack.jpg
Before I address Bashar in this verse, I want to highlight naaswut because this word means humanity, realm of man or people. You can find this word in Hans Wehr Dictionary page 960
http//i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo206/tawhiyd/bashar/naasuwt.jpg
Now lets get back to Bashar in Qur?aan 1528, below take a look at the two forms of Bashar and visually see which one of these forms are used in Qur?aan 1528 and then you will have your answer
http//i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo206/tawhiyd/bashar/basharaanbashariya.jpg
Obviously the form BASHARAAN is used in Qur?aan 1528 and this is singular, referring to one man or human being, this form again which is in Qur?aan 1528 does not mean nor have the connotation of ?collective for all human beings? as you say, and this is why Qur?aanic translators say ?A human being, A man, A mortal? because it is clearly referring to one man and not a collective in terms of a race
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I am, indeed going to create A human being, trans. by Amatul Rahman Omar & Abdul Mannan Omar
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I am going to create A mortal, trans. by Maulana Muhammad Ali
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I am creating A human being, trans. by Progressive Muslims A.K.A. Monotheist Group
The other form of this word BASHARIYA which is the closest form that can be rendered into a collective in the sense of a race or mankind but this form is NOT in Qur?aan 1528, so your tafsir (explanation) is flawed as usual.
Now the Arabic word Al Insaan
http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/hamaa/AlInsaan.jpg
is a plural, a collective noun which means a Human Race, Mankind, The Human Being and this word is used in Qur?aan 1526
http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/hamaa/Ch15v26.jpg
I have compiled the various forms of Bashar and any body can download the pdf from this link
http//kushite.webs.com/documents/bashar.zip
The following verse also reinforces the FACT that Adam is ONE
Qur?aan 41
O people, Observe your Sustainer who created you from ONE being, and created from it its mate, then spread from the two many men and women. You shall regard Allah, by whom you swear, and regard the parents. Allah is watching over you.This verse has the Arabic word "WAAHID" which means "ONE", which all can see in this Arabic break down
http//i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo206/tawhiyd/bashar/Ch4v1onebeing.jpg
The Arabic word Waahidatin is Waahid which means ONE
Even Brother Ahmad Bilal quoted this verse which also reinforces that Adam was ONE
Qur'aan 7189
He created you from ONE person (Adam)?. -
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Since we're calling names, if I'm an Uncle Tom you are a true ding-bat. You are an extremist peon who follows the imaginations of people like Khalid Muhammad, who is a manipulator and anything but a scholar. As it concerns Bashar all you can do is post those cut outs from books that you don't even understand. Bashar can mean Man (as in one man), Man (as in a collective man). Same with Insaan. If it's not in the dictionary you have go check out another one. Take it from someoen who has more Arabic experience than you that not all dictionaries are created exactly equal. You can often find more meanings in a certain dictionary than you would find in another. Nasut means everything mankind, like Malakut means everything of the kindgom. ut is a suffix which serves the purpose of including everything related to the word before. Spitting out random Arabic defintions from only one dictionary without knowing what your talking about is useless Khidr. And blindly following the opinions of those whom you call real black leadership is pointless as well. As a matter of fact this conversation is useless too and i already see where it's going. I've been down this road to nowhere with you before. You love to bark, but for all you claim the lies of your so called real black leadership will get us nowhere and are doomed to fail because God does not love the extreme. It is obvious that you are not ready to see the facts, so you can continue to wonder around in the lies and imaginations of other extremist fools like yourself. Summun bukmun 'umyun laa yarji'oona. Keep enjoying yourself so that God can ask you on the day of judgement about the na'im that is this game your playing on your own self.
Godbless,
Anwar -
O yes, I definately gave a valid response, the problem that I see in this situation is that you are in denial that the Arab Slave Trade existed
I leave you with this video
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yaVcKAWccU&eurl=http//kushite.webs.com/index.htm
I cant deny something that NEVER happened.
Sure 'Arabs', whatever definitive you use, Africans, whatever definitive you use, Europeans, Asians, etc. ALL participated and benefited (or were victimized) from the institution of slavery at some point and time in human history.
But they do NOT 'constitute' progenitors, originators or founders of a 'specific' 'slave' enterprise or 'trade'.
Suggesting 'Arabs' had a 'slave trade' is just 'finger pointing' to hide a greater fear, Al-Islam.
Even to the extent that 'Arabs' is synonymous with 'Muslim' is another fallacy, because we know not every Arab is a Muslim as NOT every Muslim is an Arab.
So the Negros that sold people these 'fears' and 'Afrocentrism' are the same people who created this lie, Williams, Clark, Ben Jochanan, etc., assisted by other 'agents'. (US Government, etc.)
You still do not have ANY documented, historical, archaeological, sociological, linguistic, cultural evidence that 'Arabs', Semetic Arabs from the Arab peninsula entered Africa and 'en masse' enslaved the populous and marched them back to the Arabian Peninsula.
That has'nt been produced, because it doesnt exist and NEVER happened!
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Peace,
You still do not have ANY documented, historical, archaeological, sociological, linguistic, cultural evidence that 'Arabs', Semetic Arabs from the Arab peninsula entered Africa and 'en masse' enslaved the populous and marched them back to the Arabian Peninsula.
Is that your definition of what a slave trade is? Entering an area and 'en masse' enslaving the populous and marching them back to the home land of the entering group?
Because I always thought slave trade was just plain old trading in slaves. And Arabs did trade in African slaves, as well as slaves from Europe and Asia. I think it is obvous that the above phenomena of Arabs from the Arab peninsula having entered Africa and 'en masse' enslaved the populous and marched them back to the Arabian Peninsula did not ever happen. Could you not see that I had been saying that the whole time. But the fact that they did sell and buy Africans as slaves means they did participate in the slave trade. The Europeans technically did not enter Africa and march African back to Europe or the Americas either. That was done by other greedy, ungodly African, Muslim and non-Muslims alike. And it was a trade that the empires didn't properly regulate and ended up bleeding the human resources of Africa. Hence Africa was weakened enough to be conquered by the Europeans in the 1800's.
By the way why do you specifically say Semetic Arabs? Is that opposed to Hamitic Arabs or Japhetic Arabs? In which case would you mind explaining?
Godbless,
Anwar -
Assalaam Alaikum @progod
relax, your getting beside yourself, you seem to have taken the thread personally, you have diluted the thread with minutia also.
Brotha Khidr has the 'Crayola Crayon' mentality also
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Peace,
Is that your definition of what a slave trade is? Entering an area and 'en masse' enslaving the populous and marching them back to the home land of the entering group?
Because I always thought slave trade was just plain old trading in slaves. And Arabs did trade in African slaves, as well as slaves from Europe and Asia. I think it is obvous that the above phenomena of Arabs from the Arab peninsula having entered Africa and 'en masse' enslaved the populous and marched them back to the Arabian Peninsula did not ever happen. Could you not see that I had been saying that the whole time. But the fact that they did sell and buy Africans as slaves means they did participate in the slave trade. The Europeans technically did not enter Africa and march African back to Europe or the Americas either. That was done by other greedy, ungodly African, Muslim and non-Muslims alike. And it was a trade that the empires didn't properly regulate and ended up bleeding the human resources of Africa. Hence Africa was weakened enough to be conquered by the Europeans in the 1800's.
By the way why do you specifically say Semetic Arabs? Is that opposed to Hamitic Arabs or Japhetic Arabs? In which case would you mind explaining?
Godbless,
AnwarProgod this is easy.....
Name the African country where Arabs came in and enslaved the populous, gave them Saudi Arabic and there version of Islam.
Name the time, place and the enslavers.
Please dont give me regional areas where migratory and immigration patterns matriculated Africans and others to that region. Then now suddenly you want to claim they are descendants of slaves.
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Please dont give me regional areas where migratory and immigration patterns matriculated Africans and others to that region. Then now suddenly you want to claim they are descendants of slaves.
This is an untrue assumption of what I meant. I believe that the Black presence in the Middle east is a combination of aboriginal poplations, migratory and immigratory patterns as well as slaves imported from Africa.
But at no time did I ever say that the Arabs conquered any area in Africa only to enslave the populous. It seems that you are assuming that if there were African slaves sent to the middle east it was because the Arabs had to have conquered and enslaved the populous in some African country, and that is not true. The Arabs could have just as easily bought African slaves from other Africans as they bought European slaves from other Europeans, and Asian slaves from other Asians. And that is exactly what happened.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Since we're calling names, if I'm an Uncle Tom you are a true ding-bat. You are an extremist peon who follows the imaginations of people like Khalid Muhammad, who is a manipulator and anything but a scholar. As it concerns Bashar all you can do is post those cut outs from books that you don't even understand. Bashar can mean Man (as in one man), Man (as in a collective man). Same with Insaan. If it's not in the dictionary you have go check out another one. Take it from someoen who has more Arabic experience than you that not all dictionaries are created exactly equal. You can often find more meanings in a certain dictionary than you would find in another. Nasut means everything mankind, like Malakut means everything of the kindgom. ut is a suffix which serves the purpose of including everything related to the word before. Spitting out random Arabic defintions from only one dictionary without knowing what your talking about is useless Khidr. And blindly following the opinions of those whom you call real black leadership is pointless as well. As a matter of fact this conversation is useless too and i already see where it's going. I've been down this road to nowhere with you before. You love to bark, but for all you claim the lies of your so called real black leadership will get us nowhere and are doomed to fail because God does not love the extreme. It is obvious that you are not ready to see the facts, so you can continue to wonder around in the lies and imaginations of other extremist fools like yourself. Summun bukmun 'umyun laa yarji'oona. Keep enjoying yourself so that God can ask you on the day of judgement about the na'im that is this game your playing on your own self.
Godbless,
AnwarYou statement here is based in pure EMOTIONS.
"As it concerns Bashar all you can do is post those cut outs from books that you don't even understand."
What you don?t like is that I have presented visual documentation/evidence inside the Qur'aan to prove my point, including other translators, it is as simple as that and any body can look at the two forms of Bashar and see the difference in meaning and also see which one is exactly in Qur?aan 1528. Some people just can?t handle the facts.
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Al-Khidr,
I don't like the fact that you don't know Arabic and pretend to present meanings from certain books and translations as if you are demonstrating something, when all this still doesn't make up for your lack of Arabic knowledge. And it shows. The truth is as I told you. And you'll have to consult some more Arabic dictionaries to see that. I'm sure won't, so you can stay ignorant, that's on you. Samia (she's an Arabic speaking Sudanese) and I don't agree all the time (but that usually has to do with linguistic theory) but she also agreed with the usage, and I'm confident in her knowledge of this word as it concerns it's Classical and MSA usage. You can also ask Layth, AhmadBaghat or any of the other Arabic speakers on this forum. If I were you I would consult some other educated Arabic speakers or just some more dictionaries. Maybe you'll get a clue. You can take it or leave. I'm sure you'll leave it. Do you.
Godbless,
Anwar -
By the way MTR, you never answered my easy questions
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By the way why do you specifically say Semetic Arabs? Is that opposed to Hamitic Arabs or Japhetic Arabs? In which case would you mind explaining?
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Is your definition of the slave trade entering an area and 'en masse' enslaving the populous and marching them back to the home land of the entering group?
Because I always thought the slave trade was just plain old trading in slaves. Which means both buying or selling of other human beings. Something the Arabs were involved in with Africans, Asians, Europeans and even other Arabs.
Godbless,
Anwar -
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Al-Khidr,
I don't like the fact that you don't know Arabic and pretend to present meanings from certain books and translations as if you are demonstrating something, when all this still doesn't make up for your lack of Arabic knowledge. And it shows. The truth is as I told you. And you'll have to consult some more Arabic dictionaries to see that. I'm sure won't, so you can stay ignorant, that's on you. Samia (she's an Arabic speaking Sudanese) and I don't agree all the time (but that usually has to do with linguistic theory) but she also agreed with the usage, and I'm confident in her knowledge of this word as it concerns it's Classical and MSA usage. You can also ask Layth, AhmadBaghat or any of the other Arabic speakers on this forum. If I were you I would consult some other educated Arabic speakers or just some more dictionaries. Maybe you'll get a clue. You can take it or leave. I'm sure you'll leave it. Do you.
Godbless,
AnwarYour misguided ASSUMPTIONS, OPINIONS, EMPTY STATEMENTS and especially your EMOTIONS will blind you....
All scholars who have translated the Qur?aan agree with the evidence that I presented because they unlike your self know the difference between
http//i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo206/tawhiyd/bashar/basharaanbashariya.jpg
I will use Layth as an example since he is the only one who translated the Qur'aan that you have listed through Your typical EMOTIONAL response
- I am creating A human being, trans. by Progressive Muslims A.K.A. Monotheist Group
Notice that Layth translated this verse to say "A human being" this expression using "A" denotes that it is ONE person and plus the Qur?aan 41; Qur?aan 7189 tells us this directly that Adam is ONE when Allah used the word Waahid (One) for Adam in those verses. You are just in clear denial. Below are two more translations by scholars
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I am, indeed going to create A human being, trans. by Amatul Rahman Omar & Abdul Mannan Omar
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I am going to create A mortal, trans. by Maulana Muhammad
Ali
And my brother AhmadBaghat have corrected many of your errors and lack of knowledge of Arabic along with your way out theories throughout this forum
WHO IS FOOLING WHO?
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Arabs were savage invaders. If they didnt introduce Islam through violence maybe the Middle East and its surrounding areas wouldnt be as violent as today.
By the way Muslimtruthrevealed is an Arab apologist. Its a fact that Arabs and Jews were big players in the slave trade.
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Al-Khidr,
Think what you like. My comments before were not emotional, and I was not beside myself, you are an extremist peon and a follower of people with little knowledge. You keep referring to translations, yet fail to understand that translations are also interpretations. I don't need the translations. And if I have any doubt I research using numerous Arabic dictionaries. As a matter of fact ask any Arab (even AhmadBaghat who you want to pit against me) if the phrase 'hum bashar' or 'ulaa'ika bashar' is correct, and you'll have your answer. As a matter a fact you don't even have to ask other Arabs (who could be wrong becuz of local dialect influences), you can just do what you should have been doing in the first place and go get some more dictionaries and see it for yourself. But you won't, because you are a peon, a follower and not a leader. So do you. Everything that I have said here, even what you thought was emotional has been truth. Take it or leave it. You will be the cause of your own perdition.
And I haven't even gotten a chance to touch on your whole all the prophets belong to the family of Adam and becuz Adam ws black so are all the prophets. That would #1 assume that all the children of Adam are also black (or that non-blacks are not children of Adam), which is obviously not true and #2 if that is all you can come up with to try to say that the prophet Muhammad (God bless him) was black, then you are truly a lost cause indeed. Have you ever read Al-Jahiz? There would be your evidence. But because you and your kind are more interested in making up fantasy histories than researching the truth, you will suffer for the falsity that you spread and how you lie to yourselves. By the way do you stll believe in the evil scientist Yakub and how he created the white man several hundreds of thousands of years ago? If you believe in that still then my case is made.
OH, and out of curiosity, why Amharic on your site? Are the Black Arabs and other Arabic speaking Africans not worthy enough to read your site in Arabic? What about the Black Latinos, who speak Spanish, Portuguese or French (yes hatians are latin Americans becuz they speak a latin derived language)? Do you know of a significant population of Amharic speakers on this site for you to have advertised your site's translation into Amharic? Or are you just being ridiculously ethnocentrist and trying to take Ethiopia as symbolic center for all Blacks? If so, all I can say is that is very predictable.
Do you even know about Timbuktu, Songhay, Kanem Bornu, or the Kordofan empires? Mansa Musa, and all the Black Africans who used Arabic as their language of scholarship. Do you know about 'Antar the pre-islamic Arab warrior poet who was so black his nickname was the crow? I have nothing against ethiopia but it is one star among the many stars of Africa and of the blacks in the ancient world. You sit here and try to Europeanized the Arabs and are doing nothing but echoing the same Euro-centric trash that Europeans have been trying to push, but you have the nerve to give it an Afro-centric slant. This is ignorance at its zenith.
I swear if all that I have seen here on Free-minds, other forums, and in Islam in general represents the faces of the futrue of Islam we've got a long way before Islam climbs out of these dark days. We've got a long, long way. God save us all.
Godbless,
Anwar -
progod get your facts straight....
Its Woloof and Bamdera they are speaking in Africa!!!
NOT Saudi Arabic
Your so fixated on Arabs..Arabs this..Arabs that...dang dude..let the Arabs go....pick one
Gulf Arabic, Bahrani Arabic, Najdi Arabic, Hejazi Arabic, Sharqi Arabic, Yemeni Arabic Hadhrami Arabic, Dhofari Arabic, Omani Arabic, Shihhi Arabic, Ancient North Arabian (Safaitic, Lihyanitic, Thamudic, Hasaitic),Classical Arabic, Moroccan Arabic, Algerian Arabic,
Tunisian Arabic, Andalusian Arabic, Libyan Arabic, Jebli Arabic, Jijel Arabic, Saharan Arabic, Hassnya, Maltese language, Siculo-Arabic, Lebanese Arabic, Syrian Arabic,
North Syrian Arabic, Palestinian Arabic, Bedawi Arabic, Cypriot Maronite Arabic, Iraqi Arabic (Baghdad Arabic), North Mesopotamian Arabic, Egyptian Arabic, Sa'idi Arabic, Sudanese Arabic, Nigerian Arabic, Chadian Arabic, Khuzestani Arabic, Shirvani Arabic,
Tajiki Arabic Uzbeki Arabic, Judeo-Moroccan Arabic, Judeo-Yemeni Arabic, Judeo-Iraqi Arabic (Baghdad Arabic (Jewish)), Judeo-Tripolitanian Arabic, Judeo-Tunisian Arabic, Nubi language, Babalia Creole Arabic, Juba Arabic
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Peace,
progod get your facts straight....
Its Woloof and Bamdera they are speaking in Africa!!!
Oh, God!! Here we go again. This is like talking to monkeys with typewriters!
I'm sorry, but the language of scholarship in Timbuktu, upper West Africa, Chad and Sudan up until Colonialism was Arabic. And you are talking about Arabic dialects. I am talking about Classical Arabic. Also called Fus-haa but to be differentiated from al-lughah al-'arabiyah al-mu'assarah.
Wolof is spoken only in Senegal, Gambia and Southern Mauritania, where the Wolof people are found. It is the national language of Senegal, but Soninke and different versions of Fulani are also spoken in Senegal. I'm sure a few more languages spoken there as well. Hassaniyyah Arabic (a dialect) is also spoken in Senegal (but mainly in Mauritania). In Mauritania berber dialects are spoken there as well. Bambara is spoken in Mali by the Bambara (NOT Bamdera) people in Mali, where Mende and Tuareg are also spoken. And then we have a whole slew of languages after that spoken just in West Africa alone! And you are talking about two languages spoken in Africa as a whole? You've got to be kidding. There are more than 1000 languages spoken in Africa. Sounds like you don't have your facts straight. Bamdera? WTF!? You've go to be joking, dude.By the way you should strike Ancient Arabic from that copy and paste list you got there. Ancient North Arabics (which for all purposes are exactly the same as Classical Arabic) are Classical Arabic before it was called Classical (not ancient southern dialects which are related but are really Himyarite and dinstinct dialects from Classical Arabic). When Classical Arabic spread around with the Arab expansion it started to mix with the other native languages of the extreme south of Arabia, north Africa and the upper middle east. Creating a creole Arabic apart from Classical Arabic which spread with the further expansion of the Arabs. Hence most of those dialects are the result of Classical Arabic forming a creole version of the language in the Middle East and being spread through all of the territories that the Arabs conquered or immigrated to. Hence the dialects vary from region to region and even from country to country. Hence you have Maghrebi Arabic which includes Hassaniya, Morrocan, Libyan and Tunisian. And then Egyptian Arabic and Sudanese Arabic. Then Levant Arabic which is Jordan, Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. Then you have Saudi Arabic (Arabic in Saudi Arabia changed because of the influx and outflux of Arabs and non-Arabis into Saudi Arabia, it being the center of Islam), Yemeni Arabic, and Gulf Arabic. The other Arabic dialects outside of traditional Arab areas are there becuz Arabs (dialect speakers or Classical speakers) migrated to these places and had significant impacts on the languages there. Hence Nigerian Arabic, Uzbek Arabic etc. etc.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salaam Anwar
It sounds like you took a 24 hours crash course in Black History.
You asked me if I am aware of Al Jahiz, of course I am and he also wrote how Prophet Muhammad's family was Black. I have placed a link on Al Jahiz in Exposing the 3 Salaat Theory at Tawhiyd website a long time ago and you read/visited this website of ours
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
Below is the direct link for Al Jahiz
http//www.cwo.com/~lucumi/jahiz.html
Your the johnn-come-lately here. There are countless information that proves that the Prophets are Black including Jesus and Muhammad. Men have written many books on this subjects because there is so much information that is out there.
Why did you ask me if I still believe in Yakub when I never declared that I do?? These are your inconsistent attempts to mislead the readers of this post-these are the only tactics that you can use because you definitely did not know what you were talking about when it came to bashar in Qur?aan 1528, again these are your EMOTIONAL and FRANTIC ways of twisting FACTS. Anwar A.K.A. UNCLE TOM, just deal with the fact that your point on bashar got refuted with common sense. Every body knows that in Qur?aan 1528, it?s singular, referring to ONE man and what sealed this issue were other verses directly stating that Adam was Waahid (One) and I clearly demonstrated that inside the Qur?aan.
And your ignorant statements/questions about our website in Amharic the language of Ethiopia that you raised were not worth commenting on.
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I don't know what color any of them were, but I'd wager a bet they weren't white. History is pretty clear on how the "white Jesus" myth came about. We can find out in the hereafter, GOD-willing.
But my question for you is why does it matter what color they were? I understand that you want to learn and spread truth over ignorance, but why this particular topic ("race" of prophets/of original man)? You are putting a lot of emphasis on their skin color -- what is your goal in asserting this information?
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Speak what you Know NOT what you THINK
D Your giving the Orientalist description and interpretation, the ENTIRE continent of East Asia was called the 'Sudan' BEFORE colonization!!!!! (i.e. Levant Arabic?) D
They spoke various languages from Kemetic origins, which was Bamdera and various dialects of Woloof, then the Semetic languages (Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, etc.) derived from these Kemetic origins!!!
Get your facts straight.
Get Diop's Lexicon!!!
Saudi's and various other Arabic speakers attend Cheikh Anta Diop University in Dakar and Tooba to learn 'Arabic' from the Senegalese, Sudanese, Badarian's and others.....
Woloof and Bamdera are much richer linguistically than Arabic Saudi and its various dialects
This 'I KNOW' NOT from what I found on the web or just created.
You claimed you have been to Senegal, did you go to Tooba?