Muhammad is a White Man?

progod

Peace,

I don't believe that the Africans to the Americas were Children of Israel, and to be honest I'm not sure where these pictures came from. But it's food for thought. I will be looking into it some more

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i_cUvZRBPk&feature=related

Godbless,
Anwar

Ahmad_Bilal

Salaam Amin74,

I believe you are mistaken about the Black race not being able to reproduce a recessive gene. I learned this in High School biology. The black race contains genetic information for both dominant and recessive genes. In fact there is a 7 to 9% chance that two black couples and give birth to a child that displays recessive qualities in one generation. The chances are slim but it is possible. Therefor, the black race could have fathered different skin tones in the long run. This is scientific fact my brother.

You are correct in this matter, but I was speaking specifically about the time of Adam and Eve. Since they were the first humans, they didn't have any of the characteristics necessary to produce recessive genes, and therefore, together they could've only produced black children. However, since white people have genetics bases of recessive genes, it is physiologically impossible for them to produce black children, and this has been the same way throughout history... Either way, it boils down to a case of genetic ancestry. If Adam was black, then white people cannot be decendants of Adam. On the other hand, if Adam was white, then black people cannot be decendant of Adam. Either way, only one group is part of his lineage.

Peace,

Ahmad

rsw

Do you have any idea how inappropriate and offensive it is to paint entire races with 'character traits' ? To say the "white race" (THERE IS NO SUCH THING) is characterized by arrogance and pride is as bad as saying the "black race" (again, NO SUCH THING) is characterized by ignorance and violence. Why do you insist on broad characterizations based on COLOR, the most superficial of all things? What you are basically doing is JUDGING the character of every white skinned person BEFORE you even speak to that person. That's PREJUDICE. I know that you are using the Qu'ran to give divine authority to your point of view so anything I say contrary to it is just going to be my own unacceptance of holy wisdom, right? This reminds me a lot of the European settlers who arrived in America and used the Bible and the gun to systematically exterminate an entire continent of people based on similar preconceptions. You may not commiting the acts but the same mindset is there. You think you are better?

Al_Khidr

I don't know what color any of them were, but I'd wager a bet they weren't white. History is pretty clear on how the "white Jesus" myth came about. We can find out in the hereafter, GOD-willing.

But my question for you is why does it matter what color they were? I understand that you want to learn and spread truth over ignorance, but why this particular topic ("race" of prophets/of original man)? You are putting a lot of emphasis on their skin color -- what is your goal in asserting this information?

Salaam

If it doesn?t matter then why did they change the image of the Prophets? Truth can stand on its own but we need to go out and destroy falsehood. The purpose of the white race whether they are Christian or Muslims for changing the color of the Prophets, Angels and even in Christianity God is design to make people of color feel inferior and at the same time exalt their whiteness or their superiority so its necessary to refute this ignorance/racism committed by them since they are the one?s who created this lie, myth, falsehood. Al Jahiz a great high esteemed scholar who was an Arab-a Black or African Arab at that back in the days wrote a book addressing the color of Prophet Muhammad?s family because of the racism by the pale arabs during his time and Saudi Arabs gov. banned the publication of his (Al Jahiz) book in our day and time. Its funny that the Saudi so-called Arabs done this but yet they are exalting the false hadiyths which states that Muhammad is a white man and there are hadiyths which says he (Muhammad) has white-reddish skin which is a common complexion among the white race. I know TRUTH IS HARD TO DEAL WITH. You see we are victims of this lie, this racism and really your questioned should be channelled at white people for changing the image and exalting their whiteness. We all agree that it does not matter what color they are but as long as we have this racism existing in Christianity and in Islaam we have to address it, we have to expose it from its root to DESTROY IT!

TRUTH IS TRUTH

Al_Khidr

Mr. Deen

You mean ridiculous right? Anyway what is so ridiculous about it? I was hoping for a more insightful comment. I have been researching this for a long time and the only conclusion of Al Jinn as mentioned in Quran that does not cause contradiction is the one that they are a race of people on Earth. I have followed the claims that Al Jinn represents the so called fiery side of man and the claims that they are invisible spooks but both sides always bring up terrible contradiction when studied from a Quranic perspective. If it contradicts it is not from God, nor is it the truth.

I think one thing people have missed is that Al Jinn and Al Insan are uniquely Quranic words. They have no English equivalent which is why there has been so much confusion in translation. Bashar means a human or humanity and is an Arabic word predating Quran but Insan is not nor is Jinn. The best translation of Al Insan would be 'of the blood line of Adam' and Al Jinn would be 'of the bloodline of Iblis' its quite simple actually. Also, I have found no evidence of Al Jinn as it is used in Quran existing in pre-Islamic Arabia. There are other uniquely Quranic words such as saqar but few people have looked into this phenomenon which is why I would like others opinions on it here. I'm still looking into these things and need some help.

Another thing to consider is that both Insan and Jinn are always prefixed with the definite article Al, meaning they are not a general term but refer to a unique and specific name or title. Of course the silly notion of spooky Jinn comes from pre-islamic paganism and originated first from Armenia (a white race) and migrated to northern Italy and Rome almost 4000 years ago, but the name used for them was Genius in Latin, which later became Genie in French and from that became the English word Genie we know today. The only other existing Arabic manuscript which speaks of spooky Jinn that I know of, and this came after Quran, is the story's of 1001 nights. The one about Alladin and his lamps and other fairy tales from the area. Most of these were written by Persians and this book can be dated to almost the exact same time that the Hadith we read today were being penned. Coincidence? I doubt it.

Even the translator of the most famous English translation of 1001 Nights could find no pre-Islamic Arabic roots for Al Jinn as is found in Quran. The word just did not exist until Quran came around. What happened is that the spooky concepts of Genius migrated East of Rome about 1000 years before Muhammad and penetrated some areas of Northern Arabia. These concepts were known to pagan Arabs as Ginayye. Phonetically very identical to the Genius. These superstitious concepts were only later inserted into Quranic tafsir around when the Hadith were being penned, again at the same time 1001 Nights was being written.

There is an entire Surah in Quran dedicated to Al Jinn. This is because they are a race of men descended from Iblis but have always made their presence hidden to Al Insan. And this is because they consider themselves mortal enemies to Al Insan. Muhammad and his companions who witnessed the revelation of Quran knew very well of this race of people and their origins. They were told to be careful of them.

Allah made everything in pairs including the human race which includes Al Jinn and Al Insan. A black race and a white race. There is a lot of archeological evidence which points to a white race which evolved independently of an African black race and came from the areas of Armenia and the Caucasus Mountains. 6000 year old Nubian writings have also been found which tell of a white race which appeared from the north and caused trouble. So much so that they had to be physically escorted from the area. This white Al Jinn race of course still exists and they exist in their purest form in some of the richest and most dominating families in the world today. These include the blue blooded European Royal families, The DuPonts, The Rothschilds, The Rockefellers, The Van Duyns, The Disneys...to name a few. All of these families still try to only marry cousins or second cousins. They want to keep their blood lines as pure as possible. Remember why Iblis was cursed in the beginning? Because he was so arrogant and believed he was the superior race to Adam. The families of Al Jinn for the most part still think this way. I'm being serious man. This is the way it is. Allah created a pair of races to populate the Earth and one would, in a sense, be enemy to the other.

Some mixing must have occurred. The Jinn only mixed when they were faced with the inevitable consequence of genetic deficiency which occurs through excessive inbreeding. Funny how God created these two races that inevitably would be forced to mix. Anyway, this undesirable effect of inbreeding was felt by a lot of the above mentioned families in the early part of the 20th century and late 19th century when many of their inbred children were still born or born with mental and physical defects. All popular concepts of genome collecting and eugenics comes from these people.

You should really look into this more and take it seriously because I know for sure that the Jinn take it very seriously. BTW, I doubt you or I have much Jinn in us at all if any. They are very selective. And unless you are related one of the 13 richest families in the world I doubt you are a Jinn. If you were you would probably be off creating world policy and manipulating world finances somewhere, not playing around on these message boards.

I have loads of information on these human Jinn so feel free to ask.

peace

And please feel free to talk about what you KNOW.... OR what you THINK. I would hate to censor peoples thoughts. After all how can we come to know anything if we don't first think?

Salaam Amin74

Its nice to see you in here.

A lot of Muslims are under the false impression that the Jinn (while on earth) are invisible spirits floating around in the air when the Qur?aan addresses the Jinn as a human race on earth.

Below are two links that any body can download to get a pdf document on the Jinn. Basically I wrote this to refute Arnold?s research on the Jinn and there are two versions of this

This version contains my research and Amin74 research
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd2/jinn.htm

This version contains my research
http//kushite.webs.com/jinn.htm

Al_Khidr

Dear brother, Al Khidr

I think you are as racist as the white men you condemn. Here are a few points

Differences in colors are not major differences... It is only skin deep.
Adam being created from black clay or mud does not necessarily make him black nor mud. But, Adam, our homo sapien ancestor was most likely from Africa and had dark skin.
Muhammad was an Arab and Arabs are not black.
Arabs were cousins of Jews and they are not black either.
God sends messengers to every nation; to blacks, to whites, to yellow and brown people.
Remember that Satan disobeyed God's instruction because he bragged about its genealogy.
Beware of charlatan leaders who live like kings while some of their supporters struggle for food.
Remember 4913

Peace
Edip Yuksel

Peace,
Edip Yuksel

White or black, racism originates from ignorance and arrogance and as an Satanic ideology, it plants the seeds of hostility among the children of Adam.

Peace,
Edip
Peace,
Edip

Brother Edip

No I'm not a racist as you say but you are the BIGGEST RACIST, you can't even acknowledge Adam in Qur'aan 1528 as a Black man so you mistranslate that verse knowing that hamaa means Black. Can you demonstrate how hamaa means ?hardened? like the way you translate it? Again Edip you are the biggest racist. And the points that you have mentioned a pure racist lies, for example

The original Arabs are Black and the Africans were the first to migrate to the Saudi Arabia or the middle east as it is called today, not Europeans

You also deny that jews are Black, you are very very much wrong, again the original Jews are Black and should not be confused with the European Jew. The first Jews are the Ethiopians not the Europeans, the continant from which you are from. Get your facts trait racist.

Another point, you cannot equate Black people with White people in the context of being racists. Black people are not in position of power but the white people are in global position of power and have the power to institutionalize and impact people?s lives on that level.

Ahmad_Bilal

Salaam RSW,

Do you have any idea how inappropriate and offensive it is to paint entire races with 'character traits' ? To say the "white race" (THERE IS NO SUCH THING) is characterized by arrogance and pride is as bad as saying the "black race" (again, NO SUCH THING) is characterized by ignorance and violence. Why do you insist on broad characterizations based on COLOR, the most superficial of all things? What you are basically doing is JUDGING the character of every white skinned person BEFORE you even speak to that person. That's PREJUDICE. I know that you are using the Qu'ran to give divine authority to your point of view so anything I say contrary to it is just going to be my own unacceptance of holy wisdom, right? This reminds me a lot of the European settlers who arrived in America and used the Bible and the gun to systematically exterminate an entire continent of people based on similar preconceptions. You may not commiting the acts but the same mindset is there. You think you are better?

I don't think anyone is literally painting all white people with particular character traits. One person can't be judged by the character of others, and doing so would show prejudice. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out the reality of physical ancestry. Their skin color doesn't determine their reward or punishment, so this isn't the issue. It's still not accurate, however, to say groups and societies of separate races don't exhibit separate qualities. By nature, white people behave differently than black people, they have different attitudes and characteristics, they have different viewpoints and interests, and as a whole, they appear to be completely different than black people, almost like a different species. Even scientists have looked into this separation of the races, and they agree that these factors do NOT depend on background and upbringing. White people are INHERENTLY different from blacks. It doesn't mean anyone is wrong or right, more or less righteous; it just means we are different and have different forefathers. Some people may be decendants of Adam while others are decendants of Iblis; this is a theorized conclusion, but it may very well be the case. Regardless, though, according to chapter 72 of the Quran, the "Jinn" are also capable of repentance, acceptance, forgiveness, and salvation (7213, 14), so ancestry doesn't have anything to do with GOD's mercy upon us. Throughout the Quran, men and jinns are considered equals; both can be saved, and both can be exterminated.

Peace,

Ahmad

rsw

Salaam

If it doesn?t matter then why did they change the image of the Prophets? Truth can stand on its own but we need to go out and destroy falsehood. The purpose of the white race whether they are Christian or Muslims for changing the color of the Prophets, Angels and even in Christianity God is design to make people of color feel inferior and at the same time exalt their whiteness or their superiority so its necessary to refute this ignorance/racism committed by them since they are the one?s who created this lie, myth, falsehood. Al Jahiz a great high esteemed scholar who was an Arab-a Black or African Arab at that back in the days wrote a book addressing the color of Prophet Muhammad?s family because of the racism by the pale arabs during his time and Saudi Arabs gov. banned the publication of his (Al Jahiz) book in our day and time. Its funny that the Saudi so-called Arabs done this but yet they are exalting the false hadiyths which states that Muhammad is a white man and there are hadiyths which says he (Muhammad) has white-reddish skin which is a common complexion among the white race. I know TRUTH IS HARD TO DEAL WITH. You see we are victims of this lie, this racism and really your questioned should be channelled at white people for changing the image and exalting their whiteness. We all agree that it does not matter what color they are but as long as we have this racism existing in Christianity and in Islaam we have to address it, we have to expose it from its root to DESTROY IT!

TRUTH IS TRUTH

Do you believe 'the white man' got together at some grand white man meeting and came up with some great plan to change the skin color of religious figures in order to systematically shift a pretense of authority to their 'master race'? or do you think they maybe just imagined their religious idols as looking like them and it was expressed in their art? People are simple, they don't read so far into things. They just know this book is from GOD and they try to dipict what they imagine it looked like. If you grew up in a white society surrounded by countries in a white continent you're probably going to imagine these storybook figures in your color. The same is true for any people. Saudi Arabia is a schizophrenic totalitarian third world state. Everything they do is to hide the truth about Islam. They aren't perpetuating that image for the greatness of the white race. They're doing it for political control. It's not about exalting whiteness but about keeping people from questioning a religion that doesn't make sense (Sunni Islam). How do I channel these questions to 'white people'? Do I ask the Pope or something? There's no organization of white people. Most people don't even believe the prophets lived. The ones that do either know they weren't white or just haven't thought about it for more than five minutes. I don't know any Christians or Muslims who sit around and try to convince people the prophets were white.

Truth is truth. Truth is we don't know if it was on purpose or not. But the truth is that it doesn't matter.

progod

Peace,

I bought a translation of al-jahiz's fakhru-sudaani 'ala al-bidaani. Al-Jahiz was also a Mu'tazilite, which is probably the real reason why his work is banned. In it he only endorses mutawaatir hadeeth, which happen to pass the Quranic test for being able to accept rumor (that doesn't contradict the Quran obviously). And most Sahih hadeeth aren't mutawaatir hadeeths, but ahadi, which mu'tazilates rejected for good reason; because they can not even be considered reasonable becuz of how they are preserved. If anyone doesn't know, mutawaatir hadeeth have more than 4 witnesses at each level of the chain, from the companions down. Al-Jahiz stated that with a mutawaatir narration there are so many witnesses and separate chains of witnesses for the same hadeeth that it makes it impossible for that hadeeth to have been invented. I think 2411-16 agrees with that logic. But it is obvious that if the saying goes against the Quran or reasonability then it can be explained away as a common misinterpretation of what the prophet said or did at some time. Or a common misperception of some event in history passed down in a mutawaatir fashion. The Quran was preserved in a mutawaatir fashion as well, and what we have is very consistent and there is no good reason (that I have ever seen) to deny that the book is from God as it says it is.

But hardcore sunnis, like wahhabists, hate (among many other things) mu'taziles and mu'tazilite logic. So that is probably the reason they banned the publication. As far as the race issue is concerned, I think that it was during the Colonialist period that the light skinned Arabs became so allergic to black (even their own fellow Black Arabs). I think the European colonialists promoted that in order to separate the society and capitalize on divisions as well as cement their own traditional caste system into the society. They intentionally had the people they colonized look more to the white in them as their best side and closer to the "superior". Hence no one reminds the lighter Arabs of their mamluk (slave) ancestry. But many Arabs daily remind many of the blacker Arabs among them of their 'abid (slave) ancestry. This mindset of lighter is better was rampant among Afro-Americans pre-1960's and is still rampant in Latin America from the Spanish being the ruling element of society over their black servants, mulato children, mestizo children and their native American servants and outcasts.

Godbless,
Anwar

Al_Khidr

Salaam RSW,

I don't think anyone is literally painting all white people with particular character traits. One person can't be judged by the character of others, and doing so would show prejudice. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out the reality of physical ancestry. Their skin color doesn't determine their reward or punishment, so this isn't the issue. It's still not accurate, however, to say groups and societies of separate races don't exhibit separate qualities. By nature, white people behave differently than black people, they have different attitudes and characteristics, they have different viewpoints and interests, and as a whole, they appear to be completely different than black people, almost like a different species. Even scientists have looked into this separation of the races, and they agree that these factors do NOT depend on background and upbringing. White people are INHERENTLY different from blacks. It doesn't mean anyone is wrong or right, more or less righteous; it just means we are different and have different forefathers. Some people may be decendants of Adam while others are decendants of Iblis; this is a theorized conclusion, but it may very well be the case. Regardless, though, according to chapter 72 of the Quran, the "Jinn" are also capable of repentance, acceptance, forgiveness, and salvation (7213, 14), so ancestry doesn't have anything to do with GOD's mercy upon us. Throughout the Quran, men and jinns are considered equals; both can be saved, and both can be exterminated.

Peace,

Ahmad

As Salaamu Alaykum Ahmad Bilal

Alhamdulillah, you have raised some good points, strong points that make us all think deeper.

One of the biggest problems with white folks is that they are suffering from a complex deep down inside as one of the reasons they cannot acknowledge racism particularly in their own race which is on the global level. None of them will never address why is it only the white race (not people of color) who is trying to dominate the entire planet.

When ever we address racism, expose racism from and about them, they hate it and can?t take it. Just like the website that I presented exposing racism behind white Muslims who are guilty of changing the image of the Prophets and making the white and mistranslating the Qur?aan to conceal the fact Allah created Adam BLACK, just like white Christians and then they will try to turn things around and call me or us a racist for exposing this. This is the typical case where they blame the sheep but not the wolf. Who do they think they are fooling. When Malcolm X was on the scene the white man called him a racist because he spoke out against their racism as to why Black folks could not vote, were being lynched by them and even in the constitution they wrote that we were 3/5 of a human being which is saying that Black people are less than an animal.

Al_Khidr

Peace,

I bought a translation of al-jahiz's fakhru-sudaani 'ala al-bidaani. Al-Jahiz was also a Mu'tazilite, which is probably the real reason why his work is banned. In it he only endorses mutawaatir hadeeth, which happen to pass the Quranic test for being able to accept rumor (that doesn't contradict the Quran obviously). And most Sahih hadeeth aren't mutawaatir hadeeths, but ahadi, which mu'tazilates rejected for good reason; because they can not even be considered reasonable becuz of how they are preserved. If anyone doesn't know, mutawaatir hadeeth have more than 4 witnesses at each level of the chain, from the companions down. Al-Jahiz stated that with a mutawaatir narration there are so many witnesses and separate chains of witnesses for the same hadeeth that it makes it impossible for that hadeeth to have been invented. I think 2411-16 agrees with that logic. But it is obvious that if the saying goes against the Quran or reasonability then it can be explained away as a common misinterpretation of what the prophet said or did at some time. Or a common misperception of some event in history passed down in a mutawaatir fashion. The Quran was preserved in a mutawaatir fashion as well, and what we have is very consistent and there is no good reason (that I have ever seen) to deny that the book is from God as it says it is.

But hardcore sunnis, like wahhabists, hate (among many other things) mu'taziles and mu'tazilite logic. So that is probably the reason they banned the publication. As far as the race issue is concerned, I think that it was during the Colonialist period that the light skinned Arabs became so allergic to black (even their own fellow Black Arabs). I think the European colonialists promoted that in order to separate the society and capitalize on divisions as well as cement their own traditional caste system into the society. They intentionally had the people they colonized look more to the white in them as their best side and closer to the "superior". Hence no one reminds the lighter Arabs of their mamluk (slave) ancestry. But many Arabs daily remind many of the blacker Arabs among them of their 'abid (slave) ancestry. This mindset of lighter is better was rampant among Afro-Americans pre-1960's and is still rampant in Latin America from the Spanish being the ruling element of society over their black servants, mulato children, mestizo children and their native American servants and outcasts.

Godbless,
Anwar

Salaam Anwar

You are a ridiculous UNCLE TOM. That is not the reason why they banned his book. The original title of his book was ?The Glory Of The Black Race Over the Whites? and the reasons why he gave his book this title was because of the racism the original Black Arabs were enduring from them (the White Arabs). He was a soldier and stood up for truth. The reason why the so-called Saudi?s banned his book is because his documentation refuted their white arab supremacy and them making the Prophets white including Muhammad through their hadiyths and them re-writing their HIS-STORY along with them enslaving and colonizing the Black race. I will present more information about Al Jahiz later on our website exposing the truth.

Anwar all you are is just a puppet for them; you are being used as a tool to keep their racist lies alive.

Al Jahiz
http//www.cwo.com/~lucumi/jahiz.html

rsw

If what you're saying is that the prophets weren't white, then please, tell everyone the prophets weren't white. Nobody is going to argue with you about that because it's obvious they were not white. You have a logical and sound belief here.

If you want to say the 'white race' is trying to dominate the earth or that people with light skin exhibit traits of arrogance and pride they inherited from their ancestor Iblis you are going to be told because that is pure racism. Whites have done their fair share of evil but it's in no way tied to skin color, any more than ghetto mentality is tied to black skin color. People are a product of their culture, not a slave to their race, and every individual is responsible for his or her own actions and nothing else. You can't say 'white people are doing this.' You can say there are 'racist priests and scholars' and you can say 'imperialist ambitions of european leaders' caused the proliferation of the beliefs of the racists but you can not make broad generalizations about whole masses of people based on their skin color.

I'm not ignorant like you think I know there are many racist whites, yes especially even today. Many of them are in positions of authority. I don't hate being told this and I agree with it; I've seen it first hand. The only thing I can't stand is seeing you imitate their disgusting mode of thinking. You've adopted the same racist attitude and dogma that you are fighting against. You can cry all day you're just exposing truths, and you are (prophets were not white, this is true) but you're also throwing in a lot of new lies inbetween those truths. I know you're not going accept what I'm saying because you think I'm just a brainlocked slave to my white skin color but I've been around this brand of rhetoric a few times (from many different issues, not just skin color) and I know it when I see it.

Ahmad_Bilal

Wa'alaykum Asalaam Al Khidr,

When ever we address racism, expose racism from and about them, they hate it and can?t take it. Just like the website that I presented exposing racism behind white Muslims who are guilty of changing the image of the Prophets and making the white and mistranslating the Qur?aan to conceal the fact Allah created Adam BLACK, just like white Christians and then they will try to turn things around and call me or us a racist for exposing this. This is the typical case where they blame the sheep but not the wolf. Who do they think they are fooling. When Malcolm X was on the scene the white man called him a racist because he spoke out against their racism as to why Black folks could not vote, were being lynched by them and even in the constitution they wrote that we were 3/5 of a human being which is saying that Black people are less than an animal.

You are absolutely correct. Mistranslation and historical adaptations to make the prophets fit a certain WHITE description is not coincidental nor accidental. These people knew what they were doing when they changed things. It's been widely accepted that the original people migrated from Africa, and it's been widely accepted scientifically that they had dark skin. However, even TODAY, this still doesn't stop people from painting pictures of a "White Jesus" and "White Mohammed", even a "White Moses". They're intentionally changing history to fit their own culture.

Salaam RSW,

If you want to say the 'white race' is trying to dominate the earth or that people with light skin exhibit traits of arrogance and pride they inherited from their ancestor Iblis you are going to be told because that is pure racism. Whites have done their fair share of evil but it's in no way tied to skin color, any more than ghetto mentality is tied to black skin color. People are a product of their culture, not a slave to their race, and every individual is responsible for his or her own actions and nothing else. You can't say 'white people are doing this.' You can say there are 'racist priests and scholars' and you can say 'imperialist ambitions of european leaders' caused the proliferation of the beliefs of the racists but you can not make broad generalizations about whole masses of people based on their skin color.

This is true to an extent, but like I said, it's already been scientifically acknowledged that white people and black people are INHERENTLY different from eachother. For starters, if you take a black child in an all-black community and then introduce him to a white child, he will most likely be accepting, wanting to make friends. However, if you take a white child in an all-white community and introduce him to a black child, he will most likely reject him because he looks different that the white child's other peers. This is a clear indication that white people are inherently racist, arrogant, and judgemental, just like the Quran describes Iblis/Satan. Now, does that mean all white people are bad? Absolutely not. But their changes are choices. Many white people change their attitudes to an extent after being grouped with other people, and this is fine. But facts are facts. The fact that you said "ghetto mentality" is evidence of this as well, since only about 40% of black people live in "ghettos"; but you still grouped blacks into a "ghetto" realm like they make up the majority, even though they don't. As a matter of fact, other groups live in "ghettos" just like blacks (i.e. Jews, Asians, Latinos, Italians, etc.), but you only referenced blacks as exhibiting this "ghetto" trait. This is a form of arrogant racism as well, even though you may not realize it.

You've adopted the same racist attitude and dogma that you are fighting against.

I disagree with this statement as well. In general, white people often accuse blacks of "reverse racism", and I think this is one of the most outrageous things in the world, seriously. What black people have is "consequential hatred", and it's only to a degree; in other words, some black people hate some white people because THEY ARE HATED. It's a defense. If a sheep hates a wolf, does that make him racist? Or if a rape victim hates a rapist, does that make the victim prejudice against the rapist? This is outrageous! A victimized black person is going to have a form of resentment against his oppressor, and this is reality. It's not racism at all. Now, do I think black people should hate white people? No, of course not, I believe in racial equality. The problem is there is no racial equality because white people have raised themselves to a level of racial superiority, and this in turn leads to the subjected state of black inferiority. And this happens all over the world. This is just reality. We have to address this issue in order to combat it and stop it, if that's possible.

Peace,

Ahmad

progod

Al-Khidr

haha. I was only explaining why Saudi Arabia (the modern country controlled by an Extremist Sunni Wahhabist Regime) banned the book. And just like it has been said here a number of times the Arabs never conquered, colonized or enslaved he black race. They bought slaves from other Africans. You yourself used to say that the pale, weak Arabs could never conquer black Africans. And I don't agree with that wording, but it is true that the Arabs (pale and otherwise) could not and never did colonized or enslave black Africans. But it was the Africans who unintelligently weakened their own empires so as to let the Europeans (NOT THE ARABS) in as colonizers. I don't know if you are using soldier as a metaphor but Al-Jahiz was a son to agrilcultural workers in the marshes in Basrah. He grew up to become a great scholar. And where do you think he got his information from about the blackness of the prophet? From hadeeths as well. There are certain Hadeeths that say that Islam is for the red (deeply tanned and brown skinned Arabs) and black peoples only. So just becuz you come across some hadeeths that the whiter elements of the Arabs (or Persians) invented, now you want to damn all hadeeths for that simple and silly reason? If we look into all the hadeeth that exsit we will find many claims as to the color of different individuals, black and white. But you can't blame all of this pro-whiteness on the Arabs. Because it doesn't come from them, and didn't exist in pre-islamic times. It comes from the whiter Persians and other Caucasians from the North that began to have a significant presence in the Islamic empire and began to assimilate into the Arab ethnicity. For instance the persians conquered Yemen and becuz of their fighting over the years with the native blacks and Abyssinian blacks the color scheme was created where lighter is better. But those treated the worse are the native black yemenis.

So I am telling you although the ancient Arabs were originally black, they look like they do now because of persistent give and take between the native blacks and Northern Caucasians who moved down into the area through conquest and immigration (did you ever notice how the word to speak unclearly, or barbarian is the same word for Persian; A'jami). The same happened with the Copts. And whereas the whites definitely did bring some anti-black sentiment from the long lasting tensions between civilizations in competition, the mixture between blacks and whites in the area lessened those tensions. But it was the influx of Caucasians into the region after the advent of the Quran and with the expansion of the Arab Islamic empire (a good example is that Bukhari came all the way from Tajikistan) and the rebellion and demonstration of power of the Black Zanj people from Zanzibar, that atleast in Al-Jahiz's era, created some tension between the purely black Zanj and the mixed arabs and whiter Northern Persians in the region.

But what you fail to understand because you have a totally wrong agenda of making the Arabs white people, is that things got really bad when the European Colonist came. They were the ones who encouraged the strong anti-black sentiment that we see today in Arab countries and they fomented that sentiment so that the Arabs woud look to all things white as superior and all things black (even the black that runs in their blood) as inferior. That's what kept them in a position of power for so long.

So who is really the Uncle Tom, Khidr? Because it is the Eurocentric white man who wants you to think that the Arabs are really white and enslaved and colonized Africans. And the Eurocentric white man has always tried to say that the Arabs (and the Indians) were apart of the Greater Caucasian race. At least Elijah Muhammad rejected that. But here you are just eating up the Eurocentric white man's garbage. The same garbage designed to keep both you and the Arabs (and Indians) in the dark about who they really are. Don't let a few hadeeths obviously from Muslims of Northern Persian descent be a reason for you to damn all hadeeths (becuz that would be a stupid reason) or Europeanize the Arabs. (becuz again you will just be spitting the same Eurocentric garbage that you would claim to be against)

So again i'll ask you, who's the real UNCLE TOM?

Godbless,
Anwar

You are a ridiculous UNCLE TOM. That is not the reason why they banned his book. The original title of his book was ?The Glory Of The Black Race Over the Whites? and the reasons why he gave his book this title was because of the racism the original Black Arabs were enduring from them (the White Arabs). He was a soldier and stood up for truth. The reason why the so-called Saudi?s banned his book is because his documentation refuted their white arab supremacy and them making the Prophets white including Muhammad through their hadiyths and them re-writing their HIS-STORY along with them enslaving and colonizing the Black race. I will present more information about Al Jahiz later on our website exposing the truth.

Anwar all you are is just a puppet for them; you are being used as a tool to keep their racist lies alive.

Al Jahiz
http//www.cwo.com/~lucumi/jahiz.html

rsw

This is true to an extent, but like I said, it's already been scientifically acknowledged that white people and black people are INHERENTLY different from eachother. For starters, if you take a black child in an all-black community and then introduce him to a white child, he will most likely be accepting, wanting to make friends. However, if you take a white child in an all-white community and introduce him to a black child, he will most likely reject him because he looks different that the white child's other peers. This is a clear indication that white people are inherently racist, arrogant, and judgemental, just like the Quran describes Iblis/Satan. Now, does that mean all white people are bad? Absolutely not. But their changes are choices. Many white people change their attitudes to an extent after being grouped with other people, and this is fine. But facts are facts. The fact that you said "ghetto mentality" is evidence of this as well, since only about 40% of black people live in "ghettos"; but you still grouped blacks into a "ghetto" realm like they make up the majority, even though they don't. As a matter of fact, other groups live in "ghettos" just like blacks (i.e. Jews, Asians, Latinos, Italians, etc.), but you only referenced blacks as exhibiting this "ghetto" trait. This is a form of arrogant racism as well, even though you may not realize it.

I disagree with this statement as well. In general, white people often accuse blacks of "reverse racism", and I think this is one of the most outrageous things in the world, seriously. What black people have is "consequential hatred", and it's only to a degree; in other words, some black people hate some white people because THEY ARE HATED. It's a defense. If a sheep hates a wolf, does that make him racist? Or if a rape victim hates a rapist, does that make the victim prejudice against the rapist? This is outrageous! A victimized black person is going to have a form of resentment against his oppressor, and this is reality. It's not racism at all. Now, do I think black people should hate white people? No, of course not, I believe in racial equality. The problem is there is no racial equality because white people have raised themselves to a level of racial superiority, and this in turn leads to the subjected state of black inferiority. And this happens all over the world. This is just reality. We have to address this issue in order to combat it and stop it, if that's possible.

Peace,

Ahmad

To set the record straight I'm not grouping all blacks in any exaggerated stereotypical catagory, you've got to be fair to me here and not pull that 'youre racist and dont even realize it' crap. The fact that it's FALSE and that only a minority of blacks are involved in it was my entire point. The same way the minority of blacks exhibit 'ghetto mentality' and racists paint their entire race with that trait, you are looking at a minority of racist whites and saying all whites are racist. That's what I was trying to say, and you effectively ignored the point and spouted off some rhetoric about how inherently and subconsciously racist I am.

Again, to say white people have raises them up to a level of racial superiority is an unfair generalization. Have you even TRIED to WORK TOGETHER with white people to eliminate racism and false preconceptions being spread by white culture? Obviously some people are going to be racist (just like there are many racist blacks that would hate this idea) but you can't characterize an entire race. I don't believe in that "white children dont play with black children" thing for a second. If parents teach a child racism that will be true, but if you take kids of two different colors who HAVEN'T already been indoctrinated with prejudice they will play together, I've been a part of it and I've witnessed it GOD knows how many times. Do you have a source for your claim?

I'm not accusing you of being racist, you're not oppressing or discriminating against anybody here. I just believe you are repeating racist statements you heard from other people, which are inherently false and you refuse to budge on them because you've entrenched those ideas so deep in your mind. "Consequential" hatred is still hatred, and hatred hasn't gotten us anywhere good. Let me know when you're ready to drop the pretense of "combating" the "white race" and are ready to work together with people regardless of what they look like.

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace RSW,

To set the record straight I'm not grouping all blacks in any exaggerated stereotypical catagory, you've got to be fair to me here and not pull that 'youre racist and dont even realize it' crap. The fact that it's FALSE and that only a minority of blacks are involved in it was my entire point. The same way the minority of blacks exhibit 'ghetto mentality' and racists paint their entire race with that trait, you are looking at a minority of racist whites and saying all whites are racist. That's what I was trying to say, and you effectively ignored the point and spouted off some rhetoric about how inherently and subconsciously racist I am.

I wasn't stating that to demean the white race or anything like that. Like I said, I believe in racial and social equality. The problem is true worldwide racial and social equality doesn't exist, at least not at this point. White people in general have placed themselves above the rest of the world. I'm not talking about every individual white person either, I'm speaking about the general majority. And yes, using the "ghetto mentality" as a reference for blacks is indeed a racist statement. That's like making the comment, "All black people don't like chicken." Even though it's a true statement based on indefinate reality, it is still based on racism and preconceived stereotypes of black people eating chicken. If I made a comment like that about white people, it would demonstrate reliance on racial stereotypes, which is a basic form of racism.

Again, to say white people have raises them up to a level of racial superiority is an unfair generalization. Have you even TRIED to WORK TOGETHER with white people to eliminate racism and false preconceptions being spread by white culture? Obviously some people are going to be racist (just like there are many racist blacks that would hate this idea) but you can't characterize an entire race. I don't believe in that "white children dont play with black children" thing for a second. If parents teach a child racism that will be true, but if you take kids of two different colors who HAVEN'T already been indoctrinated with prejudice they will play together, I've been a part of it and I've witnessed it GOD knows how many times.

I've spoken to plenty of white people about the issue of objective white dominance throughout the world, especially in the United States. The problem with this is the "white view" on the matter of racism; many white people refuse to admit there's a racial problem. They think everything is fine and normal, and they don't understand why black people feel discriminated against. This is a racial bias, and many white people have blinded themselves from reality. They've escaped the world of racism against blacks by living in different communities, going to different schools, having different friends, and maintaining different employment sites. In other words, they completely avoid black people altogether, and this leads many of them to think there's no "race problem". Many black people have also blinded themselves, so I don't base every notion of racism on alleged "white supremacy". Many black people have been mentally enslaved for so long by this objective white dominance, they think it's fine and normal for them to be treated with disrespect, overburdened with criticism and judgement by whites. They think this is the way things are supposed to be. In that sense, they've given in to white dominance, and they've become racial and social slaves of the white dominated society.

I'm not accusing you of being racist, you're not oppressing or discriminating against anybody here. I just believe you are repeating racist statements you heard from other people, which are inherently false and you refuse to budge on them because you've entrenched those ideas so deep in your mind.

I'm far from a "racist", and I don't believe in oppressing anyone. The Quran cautions against this, saying that oppression is actually "worse than murder" (2217). Regarding racist remarks, I haven't said anything racially discriminatory at all. I think the world would be much better if people decided to work together instead of judge others based on racial and cultural differences. Plus, I haven't made any false comments. Everything I've spoken on regarding this issue is directly from the Quran or it's my own personal opinion; and I make a clear separation between the two. Other things stated are scientifically accepted, irrefutable facts that have been confirmed by years of dedicated research by cultural scientists.

"Consequential" hatred is still hatred, and hatred hasn't gotten us anywhere good. Let me know when you're ready to drop the pretense of "combating" the "white race" and are ready to work together with people regardless of what they look like.

I already spoke on this issue, and if white people are willing to work with black people to solve the problem, then there can be an exchange of ideas to change the current situation. But you and I both know that, even if black people are willing to work with whites, white people will NOT be willing to work with blacks to find a solution. Most of them still refuse to acknowledge there's even a problem. With regards to "consequential hatred", it's not your place to speak on that issue. If you believe it is, then when you see a rape victim tearfully speaking about their painful experience, tell them to "get over it", and see what they tell you! Consequential hatred is a reality, and the fact is it wouldn't exist is the initial hatred didn't exist (i.e. a rape victim wouldn't hate a rapist if the rapist never committed the crime). So, once you tell white people to stop hating blacks, THEN you can build enough leverage to tell black people to stop hating whites. Until then, you're never going to change anything.

Peace,

Ahmad

SubmitterToGOD

SEE WHY THIS CREATES PROBLEMS?? brickwall
Close this topic!!!

progod

I see no problems here. The only problem is name calling, and most people here have been very respectful to each other. I think the topic is helpful and enlightening as to what others think, their beliefs on the issue and their solutions. Alot of things that need to be known (at the very least about how people think) are being born out in the open here and clarified.

Godbless,
Anwar

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace SubmitterToGOD,

SEE WHY THIS CREATES PROBLEMS?? brickwall
Close this topic!!!

How is this topic creating problems? The problems (i.e. racism, stereotypes, historical alteration, etc.) were already here; we're just airing them out to find a solution. The only people who think topics like this are causing problems are those blinded from reality, and in this way, they are the ones actually creating problems by not seeking solutions to the existing issues. Hopefully this isn't you...

Peace,

Ahmad

rsw

First, SubmitterToGod I would like to express that I do have a feeling that we are getting somewhere on this subject. I don't sense any problems, except that I may have been overly harsh and hasty in some of the comments I made and I apologize to the rest of the forum for that. If we don't talk about these things we just end up with two polarized and racist communities. Whether or not this forum is the place to discuss this I'm not sure, but we seem to be getting along rather well (compared to some other conversations on race I've participated in and/or witnessed).

Peace RSW,

I wasn't stating that to demean the white race or anything like that. Like I said, I believe in racial and social equality. The problem is true worldwide racial and social equality doesn't exist, at least not at this point. White people in general have placed themselves above the rest of the world. I'm not talking about every individual white person either, I'm speaking about the general majority. And yes, using the "ghetto mentality" as a reference for blacks is indeed a racist statement. That's like making the comment, "All black people don't like chicken." Even though it's a true statement based on indefinate reality, it is still based on racism and preconceived stereotypes of black people eating chicken. If I made a comment like that about white people, it would demonstrate reliance on racial stereotypes, which is a basic form of racism.

I'm with you on about 90% of this paragraph. The only part that I disagree with is "White people in general have placed themselves abovet he rest of the world." This is a perfect example of what you describe in the last sentence of your paragraph where you speak about reliance on racial stereotypes. Saying "All black people don't like chicken" is true and based on racism, and saying "White people in general have placed themselves above the rest of the world" is true (if oversimplified and vague) and based on racism. I don't believe that using racism to fight racism is a productive method of approaching the problem. What need to be identified is not the color of the people who have committed the alleged offense, but the behaviors and attitudes which produce the effect. What has occured in history concerning white oppression should be discussed as a discussion about oppression, not whites. It just so happens the historical example is white people; it is not a characteristic specific or universal to their skin color and should not be associated with their skin color at all. Nothing should be associated with skin color. I'd like if we didn't have to use terms like "white race" and "black race" like everybody of a certain skin color can be grouped together under a name. The only thing we can guarantee all white people have in common is their color, the same is for any race. I don't identify as a member of any "race" because doing so would be racist, and identifying races is a sure way start and lend further mindshare to racism.

I've spoken to plenty of white people about the issue of objective white dominance throughout the world, especially in the United States. The problem with this is the "white view" on the matter of racism; many white people refuse to admit there's a racial problem. They think everything is fine and normal, and they don't understand why black people feel discriminated against. This is a racial bias, and many white people have blinded themselves from reality. They've escaped the world of racism against blacks by living in different communities, going to different schools, having different friends, and maintaining different employment sites. In other words, they completely avoid black people altogether, and this leads many of them to think there's no "race problem". Many black people have also blinded themselves, so I don't base every notion of racism on alleged "white supremacy". Many black people have been mentally enslaved for so long by this objective white dominance, they think it's fine and normal for them to be treated with disrespect, overburdened with criticism and judgement by whites. They think this is the way things are supposed to be. In that sense, they've given in to white dominance, and they've become racial and social slaves of the white dominated society.

I grew up in majority black New Orleans, where my father and grandfather and many of the older white people in my community expressed racist attitudes. Where I live now in Mississippi I've noticed a strong presense of racism, even some disgusting comments I've heard from people I never expected would be racist. Our decision on the new president is causing me to loose respect for many of the people I know, as they've started showing their true colors with some sick racist remarks. There is a serious racial problem. It's not just on the white side, either, and it's not a black-and-white issue. People of all different colors and origins tend to stick to their own and be unnecessarily and inappropriately wary of people unlike them. I would like to see the establishment of some kind of educational organization devoted to exposing the 'objective white dominance'; that is, for example, publishing information on how the prophets were not white, the historical occurances that established the false racial hierarchy, etc. but I'd like to see it done by a mixed group of races and based on REAL objectivity, rather than be filled with things such as "whites are the offspring of iblis" and associating characteristics of evil religious figures with people of a certain skin color. I believe whites blacks browns and yellows can and will work together to eliminate racism if the problem is approached in an objective and rational manner.

I'm far from a "racist", and I don't believe in oppressing anyone. The Quran cautions against this, saying that oppression is actually "worse than murder" (2217). Regarding racist remarks, I haven't said anything racially discriminatory at all. I think the world would be much better if people decided to work together instead of judge others based on racial and cultural differences. Plus, I haven't made any false comments. Everything I've spoken on regarding this issue is directly from the Quran or it's my own personal opinion; and I make a clear separation between the two. Other things stated are scientifically accepted, irrefutable facts that have been confirmed by years of dedicated research by cultural scientists.

I already spoke on this issue, and if white people are willing to work with black people to solve the problem, then there can be an exchange of ideas to change the current situation. But you and I both know that, even if black people are willing to work with whites, white people will NOT be willing to work with blacks to find a solution. Most of them still refuse to acknowledge there's even a problem. With regards to "consequential hatred", it's not your place to speak on that issue. If you believe it is, then when you see a rape victim tearfully speaking about their painful experience, tell them to "get over it", and see what they tell you! Consequential hatred is a reality, and the fact is it wouldn't exist is the initial hatred didn't exist (i.e. a rape victim wouldn't hate a rapist if the rapist never committed the crime). So, once you tell white people to stop hating blacks, THEN you can build enough leverage to tell black people to stop hating whites. Until then, you're never going to change anything.

Peace,

Ahmad

To reply to your assumption that white people will not want to work with blacks because they deny there is even a problem (which is again splitting us apart based on color instead of the real problem ignorance), that is where education comes in. It's like you said, people like to stick to their own and pretend there isn't a problem. This isn't just with race, but it happens with politics and religion and pretty much everything where the truth isn't always comfortable to think about. The issue needs to be brought to the fore, but not in the way the website in the original post does. It needs to be done in a way that the people being addressed will not feel villanized and guilty. The reason white pictures of Jesus proliferate is not because whites today want to assert a racial hierarchy, but because that image has been engraved in their minds just like it has everyone else. Explaining the facts to them in a way that isn't going make all white people seem like an evil race bent on world domination would be the best way to get them to realize their images are wrong and acknowledge the problem.

On the subject of consequential hatred; I'm very interested in hearing more about this and understanding it better. I don't believe I fully understand the subject enough right now to make many judgements about it. Why does who hated first matter? Shouldn't ALL race-related hate be squashed at once? To me the concept of a racial seperation is what allowed racism to exist in the first place and it needs to be removed completely in order to remove racism; that includes anybody hating anybody based solely on skin color, regardless of which colors were involved.