The Shahada
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Thank you brother Ahmad Bilal and at least we can quote just one verse in the Qur'aan that bears Allah's name ALONE without Muhammad's name being injected and plus this verse starts ouT with the first Arabic word which is Shahida (Shahaada)
http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/Tawhiyd/Ch3v18.jpg
Now put the above ayah in context with Sura Al-Imran 381
Behold! God took the covenant of the prophets, saying. "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you an Messenger, CONFIRMING what is with you; do you believe in him and render him help." God said. "Do you agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said. "WE AGREE." He said. "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."
thumma jaakum rasoolun musaddiqun lima maAAakum /
You guys spend more time arguing about nothing then you do actually developing a clear understanding of the Quran
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Peace,
Is this pledge not directed to the prophets??
And, clearly, they were required to BELIEVE IN THE NEW MESSENGER AND HELP HIM... this was their pledge... and since they agreed, God asked them to testify about their pledge... So whenever, there was a prophet and a new messenger came to them... they should honor their pledge... That what its all about...
Can anyone answer how we will be able to help the messenger now?? since he is no more...
Regards
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Peace,
Can anyone answer how we will be able to help the messenger now?? since he is no more...
Regards
By subscribing to his teachings or methods he left behind ( the Quran ). peace
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Peace,
Is this pledge not directed to the prophets??
And, clearly, they were required to BELIEVE IN THE NEW MESSENGER AND HELP HIM... this was their pledge... and since they agreed, God asked them to testify about their pledge... So whenever, there was a prophet and a new messenger came to them... they should honor their pledge... That what its all about...
Can anyone answer how we will be able to help the messenger now?? since he is no more...
Regards
that pledge is for all prophets mohamad included, as he was a prohpet was he not, and it says when he gave them the books and wisdom, which proves yet again he is talking about mohamad as being one of the prophets taking the pledge,
becuase he recieved a book as well, THEN came a messenger, so the prophets were taking a pledge including mohamad after the books had all come, THEN CAME A MESSENGER TO CONFIRM THE SCRIPTURES.
and he did come and go.... unfortunatley some people would rather hurt him then help him, some who are against him and some within him who abuse what he had.....it seems to me people are not really understanding the concept of the miracle......... -
Peace BelH,
Case Closed.
"Case closed"? laugh How is the case closed, brother? You STILL haven't shown us ONE VERSE in the Qur'an that declares your shirk shahaada. So, everytime you state your two testimonies, you are blaspheming and pairing Allah with Muhammad. If you wish to prove that your shirk shahaada is "GOD SAY", then please show us in the Qur'an where it is declared as a shahaada. But instead of doing this, you are relying on "MEN SAY" pagan traditions and manmade hadith and sunna writings.
Thank you for putting the answer that I was trying to get from you, in a Straight Forward way.
Ahamed
1-is saying that He Testifies that "Code 19 is created to protect the Quran", which is not written any where in Quran (hearsay).
2-is Saying that He does not Testify that "Mohamed is God Messenger", which is written in Quran (God Say).This is a clear example of your hypocrisy and ignorance. I have already told you my beliefs regarding the "code 19", and I have shown you clear examples from the Qur'an which indicate exactly what this "code" is used for, as well as why it is used. I have shown you directly from the scripture. So, your rejection of God's clear signs will surely be a witness against you in the Hereafter. Also, you STILL haven't shown me ANYWHERE in the Qur'an that says that the believers are required to pronounce shahaada about the prophets and messengers. All you have done is pointed out a shahaada bearing witness to Muhammad being a messenger of Allah, SPOKEN BY THE HYPOCRITES. Why haven't you mentioned a saying spoken by the believers? Are you too one of the hypocrites mentioned in chapter 63?
To all readers, use your God given Brain to know who is right and who is wrong?
I completely agree. Obviously, you believe that God revealed PART of the shahaada in 318, but He obviously forgot to mention the rest of it, specifically the part mentioning Muhammad's name... ) In fact, in ALL of the verses why the shahaada is mentioned (i.e. "La ilaaha ila Allah", God must've forgotten to mention the prophets alongside Him, right? I sure don't see any of them mentioned in any of the verses where the shahaada is declared. But you're right, I haven't examined the real circumstances like you said. Allah just forgot to put the rest of the shahaada in the Qur'an, right? He must've left it up to Sunni scholars to go ahead and combine another verse to the shahaada so they could have a sound basis for their belief, and we should all bear witness to Muhammad's name being in the shahaada, which Allah apparently forgot to mention, right? -\ You gotta be kidding me, BelH! Are you seriously trying to lead people down your path of idol worship with your ridiculous ideology?
I think, if the readers are trying to find out what the shahaada is that Allah prescribes, they should look to the Qur'an, not fabricated hadiths.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Assalaam Alaikum
Ok its time....
MOHAMMAD can/IS not be the father/ancestor from any of you men but he is the messenger of Allah and seal of prophets / khatama an nabiyyiin. And Allah has knowledge of all things.
Al-Ahzab Ma kana muhammadun aba ahadin min rijalikum wa lakin rasoola Allahi wa khatama alnnabiyyeena wakana Allahu bikulli shayin AAaleeman
Is this reference in the above ayah about the Arab of 1426 years ago?
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Peace all
belH
I have a question for you, since you believe Muhammad's name should be in the original Shahaada when you do salaat do you also mention his name while you are in the process of performing salaat?
As I showed in my posts, The new comers will have to accept Mohamed as the Prophet of God, if they want accept the Quran as God's Book. Non of us can ignore or deny That the Quran was written by Mohamed, which is the Ultimate Truth (God Say and not Hearsay).
When performing Prayer, I read the Quran; and if Mohamed name is mentioned in Verse, I will read that verse, as I do with the other prophets.
As I told you and every one else, God ordered us to Testify about the Truth and not Conceal it. And if one of the Truth is about confirming Mohamed or any other prophets Messenger ship, then I Testify that they were God's Messengers; moreover, if any one choose to conceal his or here Testimony and order other to do the same, then they are wicked according to 2-140.Peace BelH,
"Case closed"?
yes
So, everytime you state your two testimonies, you are blaspheming and pairing Allah with Muhammad.
So, according to you, we should not read the following verses
9-24
(Chapter 4 verse 136, please note what God says in the Book (his name beside his messenger); moreover note how believer should believe
(
chapter 5 verse 55
( (
chapter 9 verse 59
(
Does your Code 19 confirms that the above verses are divine, even God name is mentioned along with the Messenger?
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Peace
I posted earlier and I want to post it again...
To bear witness on something, one has to be a be able to WITNESS it with his senses first...
Peace wayfinder and everyone
I want you to analyze the content of verse 2-140 and answer the following
1- What was the debate about, and who were involved?
2- Was Prophet Mohamed alive during Abraham, Isma`il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes Time (did He sense them with His senses)?
3- did prophet Mohamed testify that Abraham (and the other prophets) was not Jews nor Christian, but a Submitter, because He was ordered to do so by God?(
Or do ye say that Abraham Isma`il Isaac Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? But Allah is not unmindful of what ye do! (2-140)
When you finish, please share with us your understanding.
Peace
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belH you have said this
"As I showed in my posts, The new comers will have to accept Mohamed as the Prophet of God, if they want accept the Quran as God's Book."
WRONG AGAIN!
A Muslims is supposed to believe in all the Prophets of Allah and what was revealed to them and not make a distinction between any of them
Qur'aan 2136
Say, ?We believe in Allah, and in what was revealed to us, and in what was revealed to Abraham and Ismaa?il and Isaac and Jacob and the Tribes, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and all the Prophets from their Sustainer. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are Muslims.?And a Muslim believes in tawhiyd
http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/Tawhiyd/Ch3v18.jpg
BUT WHAT YOU KEEP FAILING OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS TO SHOW US ONE VERSE IN THE QUR'AAN WHERE ALLAH HIMSELF PLACES MUHAMMAD IN THE SHAHAADA. I HAVE SHOWN YOU A VERSE WHERE A MUSLIMS BELIEVES IN ALL THE PROPHETS BUT THE BELIEF OF A PROPHET HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SHAHAADA. THE SHAHAADA IS A DIFFERENT REALITY AND IT ONLY BEARS ALLAH'S NAME ALONE AS DEMONSTRATED IN THE VERSE ABOVE.
LOOK AT THE VERSES BELOW SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD ONLY BELIEVED IN AND FOLLOWED THE SUNNA OF ALLAH AND ALLAH TELLS US THAT HIS SUNNA NEVER CHANGES SO IF MUHAMMAD ONLY DECLARED LA ILAHA ILLA ALLAH (318; 619; 2014) THAT ALSO MEANS WHEN THE OTHER PROPHETS WERE ON THE SCENE THEY ALSO DECLARED & BELIEVED IN THE SAME THING BECAUSE AGAIN ALLAH'S SUNNA IS THE SAME FOR ALL THE MESSENGERS OF THE PAST AND IT WILL NEVER CHANGE
http//webzoom.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/Test%20Graphics/Ch17v77%20size%2060.JPG
http//webzoom.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/Test%20Graphics/Ch48v23%20size%2065.JPG
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/sunnainquraan.htm
I will now leave you with this verse from the Holy Qur'aan
Qur?aan 1636
We have sent a Messenger to every nation/community, saying, ?You shall worship Allah, and avoid idolatry.? Some of them were guided by Allah, while others were committed to straying. Roam the planet earth and note the consequences for the rejectors. -
Assalaam Alaikum
Ok its time....
MOHAMMAD can/IS not be the father/ancestor from any of you men but he is the messenger of Allah and seal of prophets / khatama an nabiyyiin. And Allah has knowledge of all things.
Al-Ahzab Ma kana muhammadun aba ahadin min rijalikum wa lakin rasoola Allahi wa khatama alnnabiyyeena wakana Allahu bikulli shayin AAaleeman
Is this reference in the above ayah about the Arab of 1426 years ago?
The 'Muhammadun' of the Quran is the personality and character 'model' that has existed throughout human history.
This 'Muhammadun' is the Messenger whom Ibraaheem,as mentioned....
"Our Lord! send among / inside them / feehim a messenger of their own, who shall read / Yatloo your Ayats to them and instruct them in the Book and wisdom, and sanctify them. For You art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."
Yatloo (Imperfect Active Verb, Present/Future) Recite
Ibraaheem's dua was answered....
And how would you deny Faith while unto you are rehearsed / tutla the Signs of Allah, and in you Lives the Messenger / feekum rasooluhu ? Whoever holds firmly to Allah will be shown a way that is straight.
tutla (passive verb)
Passive Verb denotes the act is taking place among someone discoverable, and the act is done either through a human agency or through an unknown inner cause (Reference ?Learn the Language of The Quran? page 248
? Al-Imran 3.164] Allah did a great favour over the believers when He raised in them a Messenger from their souls reciting to them the ayats/signs of Allah, justifying them, and teaching them in the Book and the wisdom, while before that, they had been in manifest error.
ith baAAatha feehim rasoolan min anfusihim yatloo AAalayhim ayatihi
The 'Muhammadun' is internally, part of your spiritual construct and as such is reciting and suggesting to you the guidance.
Thus the Shahadah....
Behold! God took the covenant of the prophets, saying. "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you an Messenger, CONFIRMING what is with you; do you believe in him and render him help." God said. "Do you agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said. "WE AGREE." He said. "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."
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LOOK AT THE VERSES BELOW SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD ONLY BELIEVED IN AND FOLLOWED
Peace
Why do you say Prophet Muhamad? Did you witness His Prophet Hood? As you know, calling someone a Prophet of God is a serious Claim, which can be only said when you Testify for it. And that is my point, Al Khdir.
You are asking people (new comer to Islam) to accept the Quran as a divine Message, but at the same time you are refusing to Testify that the Person who wrote it is a Prophet! why would they believe you? -
salaam
go easy please. a few issues to ponder (merely issues of understanding)
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when in the Qur'an is mentioned that 'muhammad' is not a father to anyone of you, then what is this 'muhammad' in question? please remember that muhammad the 'nabiy' has children.
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is 'muhammad' in the Qur'an a proper name? or merely a reference to the one worthy of praise (for having the attributes since it is closest to God)? is that not the traits or attributes of a 'rasool'?
if in your understanding 'muhammad' is not a proper name, could it be possible that 'muhammad' is essentially in you and me? and everyone else before and after you and me? in other words, have we not been bestowed with 'muhammad', or the 'rasool', or the one which has the attributes that is worthy of praise? if the 'rasool' is with you and me right now, where is this 'muhammad' then?
please also remember that if 'muhammad' is a proper name, then 'muhammad' was never in ibraheem, isa, moosa or the 'anbiya''. in other words, each one of them could not have attained that state (status) of being a 'rasool'. on the other hand, if 'muhammad' is not a proper name, then the 'muhammad' was prominent in them 'anbiya''.
this issue is however best answered by God. He will give you a comprehension if you have had asked Him in the first place. don't be too arrogant with God, otherwise you will fit in the description of 'iblees'.
when you ask people, you only get an answer as understood by people. different people have different views, thus answers. the correct answer is however with God. ask, and you will be told. be patient with God please. and above all, have full faith in God. appoint God as your 'rabb' - the Lord, or the one in control of you (your hearts, minds, and actions). acknowledge, appoint and honour Him as the Teacher, and He will teach you accordingly.
and with due respect to God, it is beyond me (a creation of God) indeed to pass a judgement on what God (the Creator) has attained someone in understanding.
share your current understandings if you please, but never make judgement calls. that is reserved solely for God, for he is the Wisest of judges. many people make this as a lip service, but not in practice. people make judgement calls based solely on what they know, when people only know what God has taught them. yet so much more are to be known. be careful with 'iblees' that resides in the minds, and 'shaytan' that resides in the hearts. and remember, this post is in english, not some swahili.
may God guide us all on the honourable path.
peace!
mohammed noh
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Assalam Alaikum @mohammed noh
Excellent points of reference and clarification!
- when in the Qur'an is mentioned that 'muhammad' is not a father to anyone of you, then what is this 'muhammad' in question? please remember that muhammad the 'nabiy' has children.
Al-Ahzab Ma kana muhammadun aba ahadin min rijalikum walakin rasoola Allahi wakhatama alnnabiyyeena wakana Allahu bikulli shayin AAaleeman
Kana (hollow verb, has ?waw? in its root, perfect tense, present and continuous) meaning ?he is?
Ahadin means He who is and has ever been one and who has NOT begotten children or lineage; root word is Wahada meaning to be alone, unique, unparelled, remain lowly, be apart, assert the unity
An Messenger from Allah (not from Quraish), rehearsing / yatloo scriptures kept pure and holy.
Rasoolun mina Allahi yatloo suhufan mutahharatan
Yatloo (Imperfect Active Verb, Present/Future) Recite not in PAST TENSE
Disclaimer There is no intention to defame, slander or negate the beautiful human being Muhammed of 1425 years ago, the Messenger of Allah. Peace Blessings be upon this beloved human being.
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Peace MTR,
- when in the Qur'an is mentioned that 'muhammad' is not a father to anyone of you, then what is this 'muhammad' in question? please remember that muhammad the 'nabiy' has children.
Al-Ahzab Ma kana muhammadun aba ahadin min rijalikum walakin rasoola Allahi wakhatama alnnabiyyeena wakana Allahu bikulli shayin AAaleeman
Kana (hollow verb, has ?waw? in its root, perfect tense, present and continuous) meaning ?he is?
Ahadin means He who is and has ever been one and who has NOT begotten children or lineage; root word is Wahada meaning to be alone, unique, unparelled, remain lowly, be apart, assert the unity
The passage in 3340 does not say, or even imply, that Muhammad didn't have any children. It says he wasn't the father of "ahadin min rijaalikum"/any of your males. This means that he didn't have any SONS; he may have still had daughters, and according to the sectarian hadiths, he did have daughters, not sons. In Semitic culture, if a prophet had a son, the son succeeded his father in prophethood. The statement that Muhammad had no sons is a prelude to the statement that he is the final prophet, meaning he had no sons to succeed him in prophethood.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Belal,
You've made this statement to Al Khidr
Why do you say Prophet Muhamad? Did you witness His Prophet Hood? As you know, calling someone a Prophet of God is a serious Claim, which can be only said when you Testify for it.
This is FALSE. You don't have to testify to someone's prophethood in order to call him a prophet. This is absurd! In calling him "Prophet Muhammad", he was acknowledging Muhammad's prophethood, not testifying to it. None of us were present when Muhammad (or any of the other prophets) received their prophethood and scriptures. Not you, not me, not any of us... You have still failed to show a passage in the Qur'an where the BELIEVERS testify to the prophethood of the deceased prophets, and you have still failed to show ONE VERSE in the Qur'an that proclaims your shirk shahaada (i.e. "Ash-hadu an ilaaha ila Allah wa' ash-hadu ana Muhammad ar-rasuwlu Allah"). Why can't you meet this simple challenge, brother? And if your shahaada is not in the Qur'an, then where did you get it from? )
You are asking people (new comer to Islam) to accept the Quran as a divine Message, but at the same time you are refusing to Testify that the Person who wrote it is a Prophet! why would they believe you?
This is another example of your arrogance and ignorance, brother. How can you ask a "new comer to Islam" to accept the Qur'an as a divine message, yet you get your shahaada from the hadith and sunna writings? -\ Plus, since you claim to believe in taking religious guidance from the Qur'an Alone, you are implying the the shahaada only needs to be made regarding Muhammad, since he delivered the Qur'an. So, again, this is illustrating your rejection of Allah's message, and you are making distinctions between the messengers, which the book clearly warns against. You are preaching idolatry. If you want us to accept your shirk shahaada as the "true shahaada", then show us this testimony in the Qur'an. Then, we will be forced to accept the truth and submit. Until then, though, you are spreading falsehood and hearsay...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace MTR,
The passage in 3340 does not say, or even imply, that Muhammad didn't have any children. It says he wasn't the father of "ahadin min rijaalikum"/any of your males. This means that he didn't have any SONS; he may have still had daughters, and according to the sectarian hadiths, he did have daughters, not sons. In Semitic culture, if a prophet had a son, the son succeeded his father in prophethood. The statement that Muhammad had no sons is a prelude to the statement that he is the final prophet, meaning he had no sons to succeed him in prophethood.
Peace,
Ahmad
Assalaam Alaikum @Ahmad
Ma / , negation (i.e. He is NOT, He was NOT), denotes the beginning of a verbal sentence, Allah is supporting this statement and the Messengers of Allah (i.e. Angels & Humans) are conveying the statement.
Kana / (hollow verb, perfect verb, past tense, Verbal Form I = Declarative and a statement of fact) meaning ?To be?.
Ma / Kana / means 'He is NOT, He was NOT'
Muhammadun / in the Quran is NOT a 'proper name', closer to a verbal noun, which may be semantically plural but grammatically singular in reference. (i.e. humans (plural) can embody the character traits of the 'Muhammadun' as a SINGLE individual)
Ahadin / means 'no children, no lineage, not from any human being'
rijaalikum / does NOT mean 'males', its in the plural form, 'kum / ', which denotes male and female human beings
@Ahmad, We know historically, that the Messenger of Allah, the Arab of 1425 years ago, the Muhammed in human form and history, was BORN 'Ahmed Ibn Abdullah Muttalib'. He did NOT 'embody' the character and personality of the 'Muhammadun' until later in his life.
May I suggest you read and study Sura Al-Kahf 18
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Wa Alaykum Assalaam MTR,
rijaalikum / does NOT mean 'males', its in the plural form, 'kum / ', which denotes male and female human beings
I disagree with this part, brother. We have already discussed this before, and the Arabic word "rijaal" is a pluralized form of "rajul"/man, referring specifically to males, not generally as human beings. If it was referring to human beings (general), it would use the term "basharaan"/human beings, which is not gender specific. Also, if the Qur'an said that Muhammad was not the father of anyone "mina bashariya"/from mankind, this would apply something completely different. Instead, it specifically says "ahadin min rijaalikum", using the word for a male ("rajul"... And the word "kum" refers specifically to possession (i.e. "YOUR males". So, the literal translation says
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men/males...
We know historically, that the Messenger of Allah, the Arab of 1425 years ago, the Muhammed in human form and history, was BORN 'Ahmed Ibn Abdullah Muttalib'. He did NOT 'embody' the character and personality of the 'Muhammadun' until later in his life.
May I suggest you read and study Sura Al-Kahf 18
Ummm... -\ How do we know this? The Qur'an doesn't say this; this is the story promoted in the hadith and sunna writings. We don't know if these are truths or fabrications. Chapter 18 ("Sura Al-Kahf" doesn't say anything like this at all. There's no evidence to support his name being "Ahmad Ibn Abdullah Muttalib"; these are all rumors (i.e. hadiths), and they are not included in the Qur'an. So, where did you get this information from?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Wa Alaykum Assalaam MTR,
I disagree with this part, brother. We have already discussed this before, and the Arabic word "rijaal" is a pluralized form of "rajul"/man, referring specifically to males, not generally as human beings. If it was referring to human beings (general), it would use the term "basharaan"/human beings, which is not gender specific. Also, if the Qur'an said that Muhammad was not the father of anyone "mina bashariya"/from mankind, this would apply something completely different. Instead, it specifically says "ahadin min rijaalikum", using the word for a male ("rajul"... And the word "kum" refers specifically to possession (i.e. "YOUR males". So, the literal translation says
Assalaam Alaikum @Ahmad
You cant re-write the Quran, in ENGLISH to support that which you don't understand or know.
Can you show the grammatical reference (Sarf) that supports your statement
"And the word "kum" refers specifically to possession (i.e. "YOUR males""
Clue 'kum / denotes number & gender, what is the gender of the word ?
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Peace all --
Who is AAalayhi?
3356 That truly God and His angels bless and compliment on the prophet. O you who believe, pray and call for God's blessing on him and great greetings.
3144 And Muhammad is not except a messenger, had passed from before him...
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Peace MTR,
You cant re-write the Quran, in ENGLISH to support that which you don't understand or know.
Are you serious? I'm supporting what I don't know? Do you even understand Arabic language? Most of your understandings are COMPLETELY OFF, especially if you're implying that the addition of "kum" is a reference to number and gender. You should seriously stick to translations...
Can you show the grammatical reference (Sarf) that supports your statement
"And the word "kum" refers specifically to possession (i.e. "YOUR males""
I'm not using a grammatical reference; I'm going from what I know. The addition of "kum" refers to possession of something, and it means "YOUR". There are plenty of examples of this throughout the Qur'an and otherwise. For example, as a basic term that you also use, can you translate the phrase "assalaamu alayKUM"?
O you people, worship "rabbakum"/YOUR LORD, who created you and those before you. Perhaps you may become righteous. (221)
In most cases throughout the Qur'an, ending a word with "kum" denotes ownership or possession, usually meaning "YOUR". This case ("rijaalikum" is no different, and it means "your men/males". The word "kum" itself doesn't have anything to do with number or gender.
What is the gender of the word ?
It is referring to MALES because of the word "rijaal". Adding "kum" doesn't make the gender disappear. What reference are you using? Please provide some proofs of your claims. We already had a discussion on this matter. The word "rijaal" itself means men or males. By adding "kum" onto it, it becomes "rijaalikum", or YOUR MALES.
Peace,
Ahmad