The true Islam
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Assalaam Alaikum
@Ahmad, Again, speak what you know, NOT what you think.....stop 'frontin'
Be preserver over the SALAWAT / PRAYERS and (be preserver of) the alwusta / afternoon, midmost, middle SALAH/PRAYER and you stand for Allah obediently.
@Ahmad, Do some research on Genitive Construct
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Peace MTR,
@Ahmad, Again, speak what you know, NOT what you think.....stop 'frontin'
rotfl Okay...
Be preserver over the SALAWAT / PRAYERS and (be preserver of) the alwusta / afternoon, midmost, middle SALAH/PRAYER and you stand for Allah obediently.
What I said was a mis-statement. What I meant to say is the word "wa"/and is not used in the verse to separate it from the "salawaat". Since it conveys especiality, then the "salaat al wusta"/middle prayer is still part of the rest of the prayers/"salawaat". If you conclude it by your reasoning, then "salawaat" can't be referring to prayers; it would have to be something completely separate and different from "salaat", which is NOT the case. This middle prayer is obviously being given special significance, giving an accurate translation of 2238 as
Guard the prayers, and/especially the middle prayer...
I'm speaking what I know, not what I think... How can YOU tell ME to speak what I know when you're claiming that "wusta" means "afternoon"? ) You need to speak what you know, not what you think. And you need to get rid of that misleading dictionary you keep using...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Please have a look on this page from the Lane's Lexicon (right column)
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000195.pdf
You will see that it wasatun does not only mean "middle".And in this page (left column)
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000196.pdf
Lane quotes some opinions about the meaning of as-salati al-wusta.Peace
Peace
Still the word wusta only means middle.No, Lane has quoted "mots excellent" as a possible translation of wusta.
Penrise also proposes "the more worthy" for awsatu/wusta.
Peace
Peace
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Ahmad, Take a break, you don't have a clue, your just talking "out the side of your neck".
Be humble enough to learn, and the only way you can learn is to listen.
Take a break for a day or two, arm yourself with at least a cursory understanding of the subject matter. Then come back to the thread and lets talk.
May I suggest you start with the Genitive Construct.
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Peace
Still the word wusta only means middle.
No, Lane has quoted "mots excellent" as a possible translation of wusta.Penrise also proposes "the more worthy" for awsatu/wusta.
Peace
Peace
Assalaam Alaikum @JM
Al-Wusta is a predicate of the Genitive Construct in Sura 2.238
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Peace,
rotfl I know exactly what I mean, and it's not hard to understand at all. God willing, Allah will guide us to the truth... What I was referring to is the continuation of the verse by adding especiality to "salaat al wusta". Since "salaat al wusta" must be observed EVERYDAY, that means we must also observe the "salawaat" EVERYDAY. What applies to one applies to the other. If the verse said this, it's giving the same concept
Keep the salawaat on Tuesday, especially the salaat at 3pm...
This statement clearly implies that the "salaat at 3pm" is occurring on TUESDAY, just like the "salawaat". Just because it doesn't specifically state that we must observe this "salaat at 3pm on Tuesday", it doesn't mean that's not the implication. This is the exact same case with "salaat al wusta". That phrase is SPECIFIC. This middle salaat must be observed everyday. Therefore, the implication is that the THREE OR MORE PRAYERS/salawaat must also be observed everyday.
If you based "salawaat" to mean "all the prayers during your entire lifetime", this would form an illogical conclusion. First of all, since it gives especiality to the "salaat al wusta", placing this in the midst of these would not imply a time but a period of life. The mention of a "salaat al wusta" would be made to mean "prayer in the middle of your lifetime", which is inconsistent, since we have no idea how long our lifetime is. The only way "salaat al wusta" could effectively be classified as a daily middle prayer, then "salawaat" must also refer to a group of daily prayers.
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
Actually in arabic it says; Guard the prayers and the middle prayer. It doesnt say especially. So its just in generally to observe prayers and also the middle prayer. Just like that.Peace
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Peace,
First of all, the word "wa"/and is not included there (i.e. "and the middle prayer". This is wrong, because this sets the "salaat al wusta" apart from the others, even though it's part of them. Still, it gives especiality, so it can be translated as, "Guard your prayers, especially the middle prayer..." Now, my question for you is this How often are the believers advised to observe this middle prayer? Do they do it everyday? Or do they do it once, in the middle of their lifetime? This is how you determine the time period of being mentioned in this verse; if "salaat al wusta" is speaking about DAILY observance, then "salawaat" is also talking about DAILY observance. And the only way you can consider "salawaat" being observed daily is if there are at least three prayers per day...
Peace,
Ahmad
Actually the word wa/and is the only word written in arabic instead of especially. Again here it is in correct english translation;
Guard the prayers and the middle prayer. This shows the true meaning wich is prayers in generally and the middle prayer.
Peace
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Peace,
Actually the word wa/and is the only word written in arabic instead of especially. Again here it is in correct english translation;
Guard the prayers and the middle prayer. This shows the true meaning wich is prayers in generally and the middle prayer.
I know it doesn't use the word "especially", and this is already noted. However, what I said is it conveys especiality. It literally says, "Guard the prayers and the middle prayer..." Now, unless this is forming a concept of especiality, this statement is illogical, since the middle prayer would obviously be a prayer too (part of the "prayers"/salawaat)... You can't say, "Get the dogs and the black dog..." This is illogical and redundant, since the black dog is part of the group of dogs you mentioned in the first place. The only way you could convey the message while still forming a separation of the two subjects is if you based a conclusion of especiality (i.e. "Get the dogs, especially the black dog..."), which is what is done in the Qur'an regarding the 'salawaat' and the 'salaat al wusta'. Since the 'salaat al wusta' is one of the 'salawaat'/prayers, it must be conveying especiality, not general separation...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Ahmad, Take a break, you don't have a clue, your just talking "out the side of your neck".
Be humble enough to learn, and the only way you can learn is to listen.
Take a break for a day or two, arm yourself with at least a cursory understanding of the subject matter. Then come back to the thread and lets talk.
May I suggest you start with the Genitive Construct.
You've gotta be kidding me, dude. You need to stop talking until you know what you're talking about, "Mr. Wusta Means Afternoon". This is getting ridiculous. Everybody already tells you how badly that dictionary of yours keeps sending you off, and yet, you still refuse to find a replacement or get rid of it. I suggest you find an Arabic instructor and ask for help. Don't be too prideful to do this... I'm humble enough to learn things that I formerly was unaware of, and I've demonstrated that plenty of times, even on this website. You need to take your own advice, still claiming that "wusta" means "afternoon". And you're counselling ME on my ignorance? -\ Brother, you need to get a clue, seriously. If you do less talking and more listening, then perhaps you'll learn something. But to this day, your faulty dictionary has been giving you mistranslations and falsehoods regarding a whole lot of things; and I personally wouldn't trust it. You need to get rid of it, QUICK! yes
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace
Actually in arabic it says; Guard the prayers and the middle prayer. It doesnt say especially. So its just in generally to observe prayers and also the middle prayer. Just like that.Peace
Again Al-Salati is Plural, in the Genitive Case, the predicate is Al-Wusta, again Plural....Afternoon Prayers, period NOT ONE 'midday' prayer.
Its grammatically singular but Semantically Plural, meaning its application and implementation has multiple elements, units, in this instance Multiple Timings (i.e. afternoon timings).
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Peace MTR,
Again Al-Salati is Plural, in the Genitive Case, the predicate is Al-Wusta, again Plural....Afternoon Prayers, period NOT ONE 'midday' prayer.
Its grammatically singular but Semantically Plural, meaning its application and implementation has multiple elements, units, in this instance Multiple Timings (i.e. afternoon timings).
o If "salawaat" is plural in 2238, then how can "salaat" be plural in this same verse? You're implying that this says, "Guard the salawaat/prayers (plural) and the salaat al wusta/middle prayers (plural)? nope If both are plural, then why didn't the Qur'an use the same word for both? For example
Guard the salawaat/prayers and the SALAWAAT AL WUSTA/middle prayers...?
Or
Guard the SALAAT/prayers and the salaat al wusta/middle prayers...?
Or even
Guard the salawaat/prayers and the salaat al wustaata/prayer in the middles...?The Qur'an uses TWO DIFFERENT WORDS to describe TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. The word "salawaat" is undeniably plural, and this is why this same verse uses it's singular form (i.e. "salaat". And whether your view of "salawaat" is speaking about daily prayers or prayers throughout a lifetime, the MIDDLE PRAYER would have to be part of this collection, since it's also a prayer. And no matter how you view it, the word "wusta" in this sense is SINGULAR, not even remotely resembling a plural adjective... And again, "WUSTA" DOES NOT MEAN "AFTERNOON"; it means MIDDLE... Don't be prideful, brother. It's okay to admit when you're wrong... yes Your dictionary is wrong, and by sticking with your faulty conclusions, you are only misleading others...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace MTR,
rotfl Okay...
What I said was a mis-statement. What I meant to say is the word "wa"/and is not used in the verse to separate it from the "salawaat". Since it conveys especiality, then the "salaat al wusta"/middle prayer is still part of the rest of the prayers/"salawaat". If you conclude it by your reasoning, then "salawaat" can't be referring to prayers; it would have to be something completely separate and different from "salaat", which is NOT the case. This middle prayer is obviously being given special significance, giving an accurate translation of 2238 as
Guard the prayers, and/especially the middle prayer...
I'm speaking what I know, not what I think... How can YOU tell ME to speak what I know when you're claiming that "wusta" means "afternoon"? You need to speak what you know, not what you think. And you need to get rid of that misleading dictionary you keep using...
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
You say that salawat cant be referring to prayers. Yet it says prayers wich means prayers. It not only can be referring to prayers but it is referring to prayers.Peace
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Peace
Still the word wusta only means middle.
No, Lane has quoted "mots excellent" as a possible translation of wusta.Penrise also proposes "the more worthy" for awsatu/wusta.
Peace
Peace
Peace
The same word is used in another verse in the Quran and still only meaning "middle".Quran sura 2 verse 143;
Thus We have appointed you a middle nation, that ye may be witnesses against mankind, and that the messenger may be a witness against you. And We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who followeth the messenger, from him who turneth on his heels. In truth it was a hard save for those whom Allah guided. But it was not Allah's purpose that your faith should be in vain, for Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful toward mankind.
Peace
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Peace,
I know it doesn't use the word "especially", and this is already noted. However, what I said is it conveys especiality. It literally says, "Guard the prayers and the middle prayer..." Now, unless this is forming a concept of especiality, this statement is illogical, since the middle prayer would obviously be a prayer too (part of the "prayers"/salawaat)... You can't say, "Get the dogs and the black dog..." This is illogical and redundant, since the black dog is part of the group of dogs you mentioned in the first place. The only way you could convey the message while still forming a separation of the two subjects is if you based a conclusion of especiality (i.e. "Get the dogs, especially the black dog...", which is what is done in the Qur'an regarding the 'salawaat' and the 'salaat al wusta'. Since the 'salaat al wusta' is one of the 'salawaat'/prayers, it must be conveying especiality, not general separation...
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
"Guard the prayers and the middle prayer" is not illogic and is perfect as it is written. Prayers meaning in generally. No problem at all.Peace
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Again Al-Salati is Plural, in the Genitive Case, the predicate is Al-Wusta, again Plural....Afternoon Prayers, period NOT ONE 'midday' prayer.
Its grammatically singular but Semantically Plural, meaning its application and implementation has multiple elements, units, in this instance Multiple Timings (i.e. afternoon timings).
Peace
No, Al-salati is singular genitive and the Al-salawati is plural genitive and they are only genitive because they are after a preposition.Peace
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Peace
No, Al-salati is singular genitive and the Al-salawati is plural genitive and they are only genitive because they are after a preposition.Peace
Excuse me, but you seem to be mixing to appear 'correct'.
Again, you seem to have been diluted by the other individual, there are more than ONE afternoon prayer.
Al-Salawati owns or governs Al-Salati Al-Wusta, Afternoon Prayers are a collective of Salawat.
In addition, Al Wusta has a Definite Article attached thus rendering the meaning ALL INCLUSIVE, NON EXCLUSIVE denoting EVERY meaning is relevant to the word 'Wusta', no meaning is excluded.
Definite Article , used to give the meaning of ?Most, All, Complete, Maximum, Whole, and to denote comprehensiveness, all aspects or categories of a subject, or to denote perfection and includes all degrees and grades.
Likewise, We made you a balanced nation / ommatan wasatan / , that you be a witnesses over people, and the Messenger be a witness over yourselves
wasatan is a verbal noun NOT an adjective, nor a definite noun(?), Al-Wusta is a different word
'middle nation'?
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Excuse me, but you seem to be mixing to appear 'correct'.
Again, you seem to have been diluted by the other individual, there are more than ONE afternoon prayer.
Al-Salawati owns or governs Al-Salati Al-Wusta, Afternoon Prayers are a collective of Salawat.
In addition, Al Wusta has a Definite Article attached thus rendering the meaning ALL INCLUSIVE, NON EXCLUSIVE denoting EVERY meaning is relevant to the word 'Wusta', no meaning is excluded.
Definite Article , used to give the meaning of ?Most, All, Complete, Maximum, Whole, and to denote comprehensiveness, all aspects or categories of a subject, or to denote perfection and includes all degrees and grades.
Likewise, We made you a balanced nation / ommatan wasatan / , that you be a witnesses over people, and the Messenger be a witness over yourselves
wasatan is a verbal noun NOT an adjective, nor a definite noun(?), Al-Wusta is a different word
'middle nation'?
Peace
Mixing??? What do you mean?
There is no afternoon prayer. Afternoon in arabic is asr and there is no prayer in asr.
Then you say afternoon prayers are a collective of salawat. I don't believe that you yourself believe that. Definite article or not it still is singular genetive. Ask any arabspeaking true arab.
Wusta and wasat is the same word but in different forms. Its like seal and sealed. Or a kill and killed. Same ground meaning.Peace
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Peace
Mixing??? What do you mean?
There is no afternoon prayer. Afternoon in arabic is asr and there is no prayer in asr.
Then you say afternoon prayers are a collective of salawat. I don't believe that you yourself believe that. Definite article or not it still is singular genetive. Ask any arabspeaking true arab.
Wusta and wasat is the same word but in different forms. Its like seal and sealed. Or a kill and killed. Same ground meaning.Peace
hmm..'no prayer in asr...no afternoon prayer...wusta and wasat..same word...go ask an Arab....'
ok hspesc