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  4. Never Say: " I am a Muslim!"

Never Say: " I am a Muslim!"

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    drfazl
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Dear brothers.

    We are not supposed to call us muslims but to seek His Grant to Become One. This is following the foot steps of the prophets Ibrahim, Ismail and Yacub and Yusuf. Muhammad was ordained by Allah to follow only Ibrahim. And from this any one who calls himself a muslim is a kafir.

    Let our prayers be
    2 128 "Our God! make us muslims, and of our progeny a people submissive to you as muslims; and teach us how to pray; and forgive us (for our 5 times and 3 times prayer) ; for You are the Forgiver and most Merciful.?

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      khyaletanzim
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Dear drfzal,

      Dear brothers.

      We are not supposed to call us muslims but to seek His Grant to Become One. This is following the foot steps of the prophets Ibrahim, Ismail and Yacub and Yusuf. Muhammad was ordained by Allah to follow only Ibrahim. And from this any one who calls himself a muslim is a kafir.

      Let our prayers be
      2 128 "Our God! make us muslims, and of our progeny a people submissive to you as muslims; and teach us how to pray; and forgive us (for our 5 times and 3 times prayer) ; for You are the Forgiver and most Merciful.?

      I don't know if it is a kufr or not but I am sure of one thing that making ourselves obedient has no meaning at all unless the one who we claim to be obedient accepts it. The other thing I want to point out is that there is no singular used in Quran which in turn can mean that there is no individual calling of Muslim but rather to call as to be of the group of obedient.

      Regards.

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        Ahmad_Bilal
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Peace Drfazl,

        Let our prayers be
        2 128 "Our God! make us muslims, and of our progeny a people submissive to you as muslims; and teach us how to pray; and forgive us (for our 5 times and 3 times prayer) ; for You are the Forgiver and most Merciful.?

        "Forgive us for our 5 times and 3 times prayer"? confused Why have you added your own words and thoughts into the words of Allah? What does this statement mean? You think we shouldn't pray at all?

        Peace,

        Ahmad

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          pvb
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Where have you read that you are not to call yourself a Muslim? Thanks.

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            drfazl
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Br. Ahmad

            Do not give importance to my own words which I have put into brackets; it is only to make you ponder and deliver your account on the ayat; we have to be in constant remembrance of Allah and be prayerful all the time; and not the 5 times or 3 times or lesser or more; individuals make into a group. Now following the prophets Ibrahim and Ismail with their dua "Make us muslims; teach us prayer!" What is your account on this ayat?

            drfazl

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              Alen
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Peace,
              Respectfully.

              Prophet Ibrahim was the first user of the word Muslim and we can call ourselves Muslims. In fact, whenever i call myself Muslim, sunnis around me as me"Muslim what, sunni or shia?" I always reply the same"Muslim."

              2278 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you ?those who have submitted? from before as well as in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So uphold the communion and contribute towards betterment and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.

              It's not a coincidence that prayer (communion)is mentioned in this verse.
              Glory be to our God,
              Glory be to our God.
              Peace.

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                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Salaams All,

                Prophet Ibrahim was the first user of the word Muslim and we can call ourselves Muslims

                Was he realy!

                Amazing Since the time of Abraham over 2500 years till the Quran no body ever used this name "Muslim" even after Jesus- no literature any where that i have ever come across, have you? apart from the quran, there is a lot of literature available the sea scrolls e.t.c

                I believe Abraham said it as a descriptive term for people to surrender to........

                Abraham wasn't a Jew, Cristian, Sikh, Muslim ..........but told people to behave themselves and serve the greater good, the greater cause, the cause of ALL humanity.

                AND NOT OF A SELECT FEW.

                and be a muslim.

                hmm

                God Bless All.

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                  Edip_Yuksel
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Dear Fazl

                  You are making up a prohibition without evidence... I do not find in the Quran such an instruction. To the contrary, there are instructions to the opposite. For instance

                  4133 Who is better in saying than one who invites to God, and does good works, and says "I am one of those who have peacefully surrendered."

                  4133

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                    drfazl
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    http//You are making up a prohibition without evidence... I do not find in the Quran such an instruction. To the contrary, there are instructions to the opposite. For instance

                    4133 Who is better in saying than one who invites to God, and does good works, and says "I am one of those who have peacefully surrendered."

                    I base my opinion upon the plead both Ibrahim and Ismail made with Allah "O God! Make us Muslims! Teach us how to pray!" The fear they had for their God and the humility the two prophets showed before their God; and they were not ordinary people; Allah had made Ibrahim imam for the people as Ibrahim complied fully with the command of Allah to His fullest satisfaction; they were the foundation stone for Islam. And further Allah adjudges Ibrahim as the dearest of the prophets. Allah commands Muhammad to follow only Ibrahim in Islam. And it is incumbent upon every human to follow the path showed by Ibrahim and Muhammad who followed Ibrahim as per Allah's dictum.

                    You still want to call yourself a muslim or obey Allah and follow the prophets Ibrahim and Muhammad by demonstrating your humility before Allah?

                    Regards.
                    .

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                      Edip_Yuksel
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Dear Fazl

                      Perhaps you are confusing the pronoun "I" with "WE." Abraham is praying for his ENTIRE family and even for his ENTIRE DESCENDANTS. Remember that he is criticized by God for asking forgiveness for everyone of his descendants? So, in the verse you are using for your bizarre claim, Abraham is talking about others and about future generations.. Thus, his prayer is a perfect fit.

                      Your understanding contracts many verses, of which one I have quoted. So, please reflect on this clear difference.

                      Peace,
                      Edip

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                        drfazl
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Dear edip

                        " We " include Ibrahim and Ismail also. And further Allah does not ridicule Ibrahim but only reminds them that His promise will not hold good for those transgress. So following the two prophets we seek that Allah makes us muslims as Muhammad too would have similarly followed him. There are many many ayats that talk about being a muslim; and we will come to that later one by one so that there is no contras at all.
                        .

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                          khyaletanzim
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Dear drfazal,

                          I agree with you that one must not say that "I am a Muslim" but instead one can say "i am one of the Muslims".

                          In the following verse it is clear to us that there is not a better saying than to claim that ?I am one of the submitters? but this claim is subject to the inviting of people to God?s message and doing good deeds. Saying ?I am one of the submitters? is only valid if one does good deeds and invites people to the message of God.
                          4133 And who is better in saying than one who invites to God, and does good works, and says "I am one of those who have surrendered."

                          Following verse tells what makes a submitter.
                          4125 Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend.

                          According to my understanding, in the system of Islam becoming one of the Muslims is the highest ranking and this can only be achieved by fully practicing what is ordered in Quran. Following is the verse which tells us about the rankings or stages of this system which is called Islam.

                          3335 For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in God's praise,- for them has God prepared forgiveness and great reward.

                          In my understanding in the above verse God has given the sequence or stages to become one of the Muslims. According to my understanding the process starts with God?s praise and the utmost achievement is to reach the degree of one of the submitters. One can take the sequence vice versa too but in my opinion God has started from the top most stage.

                          The verse 2128 clearly tells that Abraham asked the God to make ?Muslims? out of his progeny that clearly gives an understanding that all cannot become Muslims thus clarifying my understanding.

                          The following verses tell the same story that one must be of those who submit.
                          6163 "He has no partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted."
                          3012 "And I was commanded to be the first of those who submit."

                          In my understanding, following all the orders given to believers by Quran can lead the believer to the status of ?one of the Muslims?

                          My conclusion form the above verses is that the claim by anyone himself as submitters does not have any value unless one follows the God and the Messenger. In other words anyone claiming by himself to be ?one of the submitters? does not have any value unless the God or the messenger tells them so. Quran tells us about all the qualities of a believer to let humans understand that unless Human follows all the qualities of a believer mentioned in Quran he cannot call himself as ?one of the submitter? or ?one of the Muslims?. The other logic for my conclusion is that Quran does not address the ?Muslims? directly in whole of the Quran.

                          ?One of the Muslims? is claimed by the prophet Mohammad himself. This is also a logical proof that Muslims are superior to believers, because believers needs addressing and Muslims don?t.

                          Regards.

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                            Bigmo
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Labels like Muslims or Christians are only valuable if they are able to identify something specific. When you say Muslim it is identified with Sunni/Shia crowd. So whats the purpose of calling yourself Muslim if you are not Sunni/Shia? Trying to determine the technical meaning of the word does not mean much since the Koran refers to Nasara when it talks about the disciples and also uses Hudna as an adjective of faith. After all Yahood comes from the word hady meaning guidance. Yet the Koran mostly refers to Jews and Christians in their identified form.

                            We must also be aware that the identity of Muslim is not us as is undertsood by the meaning of the word. We are Koranist. Either Koranist or Koran aloners, depending on the person. Koranist believe the prime authority is the Koran and nothing should abrogate it or override it. They can accept other sources as long as it does not contradict the Koran or is made obligatory. While Aloners believe only the Koran has authority and nothing else. Sunni/Shias do not believe in this. So why get the same label? Lables are for identification. Just like a name. Its there for identification.

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                              pvb
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              I thought muslim was english for submissive, not a title.

                              Who is to say which of us are submissive, but GOD.

                              You can call me a GOOD NEWSIST!! Gospelist!!

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                                drfazl
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Muslims means purest in heart for Allah and free from all shirks; are we so? Should we not seek from allah that he makes our heart pure with untainted-belief; 449 says never call yourself pure muslims; for Allah makes one Pure and Guides them in the righteousness who He wish.

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                                  FAR
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Salaams All,

                                  Was he realy!

                                  Amazing Since the time of Abraham over 2500 years till the Quran no body ever used this name "Muslim" even after Jesus- no literature any where that i have ever come across, have you? apart from the quran, there is a lot of literature available the sea scrolls e.t.c

                                  I believe Abraham said it as a descriptive term for people to surrender to........

                                  Abraham wasn't a Jew, Cristian, Sikh, Muslim ..........but told people to behave themselves and serve the greater good, the greater cause, the cause of ALL humanity.

                                  AND NOT OF A SELECT FEW.

                                  and be a muslim.

                                  hmm

                                  God Bless All.

                                  I don't believe that is actually correct, especially if one refers to the Aramaic of Luke 640.

                                  http//home.comcast.net/~rzuberi/articles/Being_Like_The_Teacher.pdf

                                  And technically, the term of "muslim" would most likely have existed during the time of Abraham as it's a verb that would apply to the angels.

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                                    drfazl
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Never say I am a muslim; say O God ! Make me a muslim

                                    Whoso believes and works (does good deeds ) in the cause of salam, even as he is practicing it is indeed a muslim. On the contrary those who call themselves belonging to muslim community can never be muslims. Allah must acknowledge us as 'muslim' and increase us in our state of salam. When Allah chose one and the only Ibrahim from among the kufr community, that was a perfect example!

                                    Now let us remember the ayah that says To whatever community you may belong Be it a mumin's, or christian's, or jew's community or sabians' (unknown communities of people ) whoso believes in the One God and fears the final judgment and do good, neither fear nor grief shall touch them. This is God given salam thus there are chosen muslims from the mankind like Ibrahim was chosen. A great Prophet was chosen from the kufr community and not from the so called 'muslim community.'

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                                      Al_Araf
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      salam dr fazl. i saw akhi edip yuksel's post, he has posted a verse from the quran as authority.

                                      i agree with akhi yuksel. please turn from rejecting the ayats.

                                      allah is the teacher.

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                                        FAR
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Where in the quran does it say "never say "I'm a muslim""?

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                                          Tony
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Dear Fazl

                                          You are making up a prohibition without evidence... I do not find in the Quran such an instruction. To the contrary, there are instructions to the opposite. For instance

                                          4133 Who is better in saying than one who invites to God, and does good works, and says "I am one of those who have peacefully surrendered."

                                          4133

                                          Nothing can be clearer than this.

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