Thou shall not commit adultery. What about fornication!?
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Peace,
?Fornication han no punishment except to marry the woman.?
Wrong, fornication is prohibited per the following Quran verses
235 - And they maintain their chastity.
236 - Only with their spouses, or those who are rightfully theirs, do they have sexual relations; they are not to be blamed.
2433 - And let those who are not able to marry continue to be chaste until God enriches them of His Bounty??
The punishment is
416 - And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.
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236 - Only with their spouses, or those who are rightfully theirs, do they have sexual relations; they are not to be blamed.
Interesting to note that. Does that mean girl friend/boy friend/slaves/concubines?
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Well there is s raging or recently raging debate on the meaning of what has been translated by "those who are rightfully theirs" in the thread
Re Defenition of marriage suggests sex before marriage permitted?!
You may study de question and join in if you haven't done so before. If you come up with a wise and useful equivalent, I think you will get many virtual kisses from many people me included. That I must say, without any demerit for all the equivalents that have already been contributed by other courageous, intelligent, wise and hardworking forum members. Thanks to it all my confusion is now of a much better quality, higher level and knowledge content.
Salaam
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Peace Huruf,
?That I must say, without any demerit for all the equivalents that have already been contributed by other courageous, intelligent, wise and hardworking forum members.?
This is a very interesting assertion. If you don?t mind, please define courageous, intelligent, wise and hardworking and then give us the criteria for each case. This will give us a clear idea about your judgment capability and decide if we should take your statement seriously or not. Also, please do not forget to cite a name of an intelligent, wise and courageous person.
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Peace progressive1993,
?Interesting to note that. Does that mean girl friend/boy friend/slaves/concubines??
The answer is no because believers are required to remain chaste until God enriches them of His Bounty.
Also, don?t forget 2432 - You shall encourage those of you who are single to get married. They may marry the righteous among your male and female servants, if they are poor. GOD will enrich them from His grace. GOD is Bounteous, Knower.
??.or those who are rightfully theirs?
Once it is theirs, it is theirs for good. No flip-flop i.e. you are mines today and not mine tomorrow. This negates fornication which is done at will with any willing participant.
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Peace Huruf,
?That I must say, without any demerit for all the equivalents that have already been contributed by other courageous, intelligent, wise and hardworking forum members.?
This is a very interesting assertion. If you don?t mind, please define courageous, intelligent, wise and hardworking and then give us the criteria for each case. This will give us a clear idea about your judgment capability and decide if we should take your statement seriously or not. Also, please do not forget to cite a name of an intelligent, wise and courageous person.
Guest,
This is not a court of law, you know. There has been a long debate. A debate is not an interrogatory before a court of law. People, even if they come up with weird things, and get angry and go off with shocking theories, in fact are working hard and to the best of their effort in most instances to bring light to some point, for themselves or for others. That is praiseworthy.
I acknowledge that and state it. It is tiresome to spend time and effort on this and then have your points of view punched and still continue. So that deserves praise.
So yes, I uphold what I say, which doesn't mean that one agrees with what is said. But more regards deserve those who dare say and debate than those who just watch and find fault.
Salaam
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Peace huruf,
One should not pass judgement especially when they don't have the knowledge to do so. This is just an advise and no one needs to comply with it. Would you praise someone who is willingly misleading others away from the path of God's? You are professing everyone has good intention here, I hope you are right. That's why I asked you how do you make that determination between good and bad. If it is your job to give kudos to others then words like good work, well done, good job, etc. are more appropriate.
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She means the Arabic word "zina" does not differentiate between adultery and fornication, i.e. it covers both.
Yeah, I believe the Same thing. Zina and Adultery both are considered a "Sexual Transgression".
Adultery and its Punishment
Quran. 242
"The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty."
"The adulteress and the adulterer, flog each of them (with) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you from obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement."
242
I will write a Commentary from my Quran by Mulana Muhammad Ali.
"Chasity, as virtue is not given the first place in Modern civilized society, and hence Adultery is not considered a sufficiently serious offense to subject the guilty party to any punishment of damages to the injured husband. The Breach of the Greatest trust which can be imposed on a man or a woman, is the breach which ruins families and destroys household peace, and deprives innocent children of their Loving mothers, is not looked upon even as seriously as the breach of trust of a few pounds. Hence Islamic Law seems to be too Severe to a Westerner."The Punishment of Adultery is here stated to be Flogging, Not Stoning to Death, which was really prescribed by the Jewish Law. The case of "Stoning to Death" for Adultery by the Prophet's orders relate actually to a Jew and a Jewess in one case. Bukari 2361 and others apparently occurred before the revelation of this Chapter. That Stoning to death was never contemplated by Islam as a Punishment for adultery is made clear in Verse 425-, where it is stated Expressively that the punishment for adultery in the case of Slave-girls, when they are married is half the punishment which is inflicted on free married women, and stoning to death for Adultery, could NOT be Halved.
Besides the Quran nowhere speaks of stoning as a Punishment for Adultery, and the report of what Umar said is Self-Contradictory. For a Full discussion see "The religion of Islam" ch. Penal Laws of Islam. A few Words may be added as a method to the flogging. it is aimed more at disgracing the culprit that at torturing him. In the Time of the Prophet, and even some time after him, where was no whip, and Flogging was carried out by beating a stick or with the hand or with shoes. The Culprit was Not Stripped naked, but he was required to take off Thick Clothes.
OVERVIEW.
In Some ""Muslim Countries"" those who are gulty of Zina or Adultery and Fornicating are Punished in two ways.
They make a Distinction between the Fornicating Punishment
100 lashesand the Adultery Punishment (Stoning to Death)
However, No where in the Entire Quran does it Mention the Words "Stone to Death" or Stone in reference to the so -called Islamic Law of Stoning to Death.
http//i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu322/kscountrygirl/Stone/Stone13.jpgTraditional Islam (meaning the Use of Hadiths) Tell the Story of the Prophet where he orders a jewish couple to be stoned to death. This Story is in 3 hadiths that are Known to be "Authentic". (B2361). In the Story They the Jews wanted to get way with the Crime so they fled their Tribe to Join the Prophet because they Heard that in Islam (Quran) the Punishment is Less then their Torah. So therefore they could avoid the death in Jewish law and take 100 floggings in Islamic Law.
However after a meeting and such...the story resulted in the jews still being punished according to Their Scripture "Torah" not the Quran. I guess they didnt really want to be Muslim i suppose.
In Non-traditional interpretation (using Quran as the main source only)
The Quran Never Gives Indication of Stoning to Death. Only Mentioning the words "100 lashes (floggings). and Common sense will say that the Punishment is not only Half-ed for Slaves But also the Adulterer and Adulteress Must Only Marry either an Idolater or another Adulterer. Therefore concluding...how can an Adulterer Marry another if He is Stoned to Death? That doesn't make sense.
Most If not ALL translators Do not make a Distinction between "Adultery or Fornication" rather using them both the same as "Sexual Misuse" or Sexual transgression. Both being the same Equal amount of Punishment (100 lashes)
SO where did this "Stoning to death come From"?
well there are Some Hadiths Against "Stoning to death" and Ironically I guess Some FOR stoning to death. and a Quran that is against it. SO therefore there is Much Discrepancy and a Problem with interpretation.
My Question to you is...how about Older Scripture?
What about Our Prophet Isa?
From the Bible John 8.7 where Jesus tells the accusers of a woman of adultery, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.Known as "He who is without Sin, Cast the First Stone"
Different opinions on the matter can be found here.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adulteryUnfortunately Many have taken advantage and manipulated certain interpretations...which lead to many People who have been Killed for Adultery. Allah the Most Merciful allows the Individual to go through certain Acts to somehow redeem him/herself.
Such as 100 lashes and marrying only a another like him/her.
I think there is Sufficient Proof and Clear arguments showing Probable cause to Dismalte the Law of Stoning to Death. Not Only is there Commentary from Jesus (Isa pbuh) in the Bible but also 3 Hadiths about the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
and more and most importantly....An ENTIRE QURAN.If that is not Sufficient Proof I dont know what is.
It is Laws like these in Shariah that must be RE-Looked at. as well as Apostasy and others.
Peace/Salam
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Yeah, I believe the Same thing. Zina and Adultery both are considered a "Sexual Transgression".
Adultery and its Punishment
Quran. 242
"The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty."
"The adulteress and the adulterer, flog each of them (with) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you from obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement."
242
I will write a Commentary from my Quran by Mulana Muhammad Ali.
"Chasity, as virtue is not given the first place in Modern civilized society, and hence Adultery is not considered a sufficiently serious offense to subject the guilty party to any punishment of damages to the injured husband. The Breach of the Greatest trust which can be imposed on a man or a woman, is the breach which ruins families and destroys household peace, and deprives innocent children of their Loving mothers, is not looked upon even as seriously as the breach of trust of a few pounds. Hence Islamic Law seems to be too Severe to a Westerner."The Punishment of Adultery is here stated to be Flogging, Not Stoning to Death, which was really prescribed by the Jewish Law. The case of "Stoning to Death" for Adultery by the Prophet's orders relate actually to a Jew and a Jewess in one case. Bukari 2361 and others apparently occurred before the revelation of this Chapter. That Stoning to death was never contemplated by Islam as a Punishment for adultery is made clear in Verse 425-, where it is stated Expressively that the punishment for adultery in the case of Slave-girls, when they are married is half the punishment which is inflicted on free married women, and stoning to death for Adultery, could NOT be Halved.
Besides the Quran nowhere speaks of stoning as a Punishment for Adultery, and the report of what Umar said is Self-Contradictory. For a Full discussion see "The religion of Islam" ch. Penal Laws of Islam. A few Words may be added as a method to the flogging. it is aimed more at disgracing the culprit that at torturing him. In the Time of the Prophet, and even some time after him, where was no whip, and Flogging was carried out by beating a stick or with the hand or with shoes. The Culprit was Not Stripped naked, but he was required to take off Thick Clothes.
OVERVIEW.
In Some ""Muslim Countries"" those who are gulty of Zina or Adultery and Fornicating are Punished in two ways.
They make a Distinction between the Fornicating Punishment
100 lashesand the Adultery Punishment (Stoning to Death)
However, No where in the Entire Quran does it Mention the Words "Stone to Death" or Stone in reference to the so -called Islamic Law of Stoning to Death.
http//i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu322/kscountrygirl/Stone/Stone13.jpgTraditional Islam (meaning the Use of Hadiths) Tell the Story of the Prophet where he orders a jewish couple to be stoned to death. This Story is in 3 hadiths that are Known to be "Authentic". (B2361). In the Story They the Jews wanted to get way with the Crime so they fled their Tribe to Join the Prophet because they Heard that in Islam (Quran) the Punishment is Less then their Torah. So therefore they could avoid the death in Jewish law and take 100 floggings in Islamic Law.
However after a meeting and such...the story resulted in the jews still being punished according to Their Scripture "Torah" not the Quran. I guess they didnt really want to be Muslim i suppose.
In Non-traditional interpretation (using Quran as the main source only)
The Quran Never Gives Indication of Stoning to Death. Only Mentioning the words "100 lashes (floggings). and Common sense will say that the Punishment is not only Half-ed for Slaves But also the Adulterer and Adulteress Must Only Marry either an Idolater or another Adulterer. Therefore concluding...how can an Adulterer Marry another if He is Stoned to Death? That doesn't make sense.
Most If not ALL translators Do not make a Distinction between "Adultery or Fornication" rather using them both the same as "Sexual Misuse" or Sexual transgression. Both being the same Equal amount of Punishment (100 lashes)
SO where did this "Stoning to death come From"?
well there are Some Hadiths Against "Stoning to death" and Ironically I guess Some FOR stoning to death. and a Quran that is against it. SO therefore there is Much Discrepancy and a Problem with interpretation.
My Question to you is...how about Older Scripture?
What about Our Prophet Isa?
From the Bible John 8.7 where Jesus tells the accusers of a woman of adultery, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.Known as "He who is without Sin, Cast the First Stone"
Different opinions on the matter can be found here.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adulteryUnfortunately Many have taken advantage and manipulated certain interpretations...which lead to many People who have been Killed for Adultery. Allah the Most Merciful allows the Individual to go through certain Acts to somehow redeem him/herself.
Such as 100 lashes and marrying only a another like him/her.
I think there is Sufficient Proof and Clear arguments showing Probable cause to Dismalte the Law of Stoning to Death. Not Only is there Commentary from Jesus (Isa pbuh) in the Bible but also 3 Hadiths about the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
and more and most importantly....An ENTIRE QURAN.If that is not Sufficient Proof I dont know what is.
It is Laws like these in Shariah that must be RE-Looked at. as well as Apostasy and others.
Peace/Salam
God's law here is concerning adultery and not the punishment. This is established in Torah, Gospel and Quran. Yet the Gospel did not talk about punishment and the Quran itself has differences in what to do regarding this as it says
4.15. If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.
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God's law here is concerning adultery and not the punishment. This is established in Torah, Gospel and Quran. Yet the Gospel did not talk about punishment and the Quran itself has differences in what to do regarding this as it says
4.15. If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.
What about the Punishment 100 Stripes in the other Verse?
You've kind of lose me...lol ;D please explain
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I know Edip Yuksel thinks that passage is referring to quarantining prostitutes with STDs to prevent their spread to the general population. It sounds like a sensible interpretation but I'm not really convinced by any of these punishments.
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What about the Punishment 100 Stripes in the other Verse?
You've kind of lose me...lol ;D please explain
This verse is about lesbians
4.15. If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way
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There's nothing in the verse or context to indicate it being about lesbians.
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There's nothing in the verse or context to indicate it being about lesbians.
Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. By Doctor. Feras Hamza
As for those of your women who commit lewdness, adultery, call four, Muslim men, of you to witness against them; and if they witness, against them such , then detain them in their houses, and prevent them from mixing with people, until, the angels of, death take them or, until, God appoints for them a way, out of it. This was stipulated for them at the very beginning of Islam, but then a way out was appointed for them through that the virgin should receive a hundred lashes and be banished for a year, and the married woman be stoned. The prescribed punishment was explained thus in the hadth, ?Come listen to me! Come listen to me! God has now made a way out for them?, as reported by Muslim.Tafsir Ibn ?Abbas
(As for those of your women) your free, married women (who are guilty of lewdness) i.e. of fornication, (call to witness) that they were caught red-handed in the act (four of you against them) four of your free men. (And if they testify) to the Truth of the allegation (then confine them to the houses) keep them in prison (until death take them) until they die in prison (or (until) Allah appoint for them a way) out by means of stoning. Imprisoning a free, married woman who commits fornication until she dies in prison was later abrogated by stoning.
;D
