Why calling ourselves "Muslims" or refering to our faith as "Islam" is a Mistake
-
The reason why the Karaite Judaic movement characterized by its adherents only to the Torah and not the Oral traditions failed was because it did not seperate itself from the larger Jewish community. There is a fear now that Koranist will also fail to distinguish itself from the larger Muslim community by insisting they are to be labeled as Muslims or followers of Islam. The so called Mesianic Judaism is also ingrained in the larger Jewish community. The inability to seperate themselves from the larger community has made them basically irrelevant to the rest of manking and they have offered very little.
The Christian reformation also failed in seperating itself from the larger Chrisian community and today they still follow the trinity and other deviances. So much for the reformation. Its only contribution was secularism but as far as religious doctrine it has nothing different from Catholicism but indeed probably is more into the worshiping of Jesus than Catholics as we can see from the Evangelical movement.
The Koran always reminded the prophet never to compromise. In the past I was an advocate of unity among the so called Muslims. Now I believe it is a big mistake. This is because the orthodoxy are good in communal preservation. By relying on rituals and dogma and a pretended consensus they can easily find an easy way for people to fit in into an identity. You don't even need to know the Koran or Bible to be a Muslim or Christian nowadays. You simply attend Church or Mosque and they will tell you what to believe and what to do or say. Now you just have to obey and follow. Why bother reading the scriptures when you can know what to believe and what to do anyways? The orthodoxy have developed a means of collaborating with the stae authority by making themselves the official faith. They then control the mosques and religious publication. This is the case in nearly all Muslim countries where a religious authority armed with a theocratic dogma have the state authority of imposing Islam on everyone not only as a faith but also an identity. Identity is always stronger for people than faith. It also relies on finding manufactured answers clearly made for the lay man to dominate all aspects of his life like what he eats, how he prays and where and how and what he is allowed to do and not. The Koran does not have these answers lay men usually seek.
By calling ourselves Muslims or refering to our faith as Islam we fail to clearly distinguish ourselves from the rest of the Muslims. The Koran refers to Jesus's disciples as Nasara and uses the term Hudna Ilaik meaning we were guided to God's path. It also uses Muslims meaning submission. We are Nasara, we are Yahood and we are Muslims and we are Mu'mins and we are Mutaqeen and we are the people of the Yameen. Why should we join a tribe? Maybe we need a state of our own but I think thats impossible since we do not have an orthodoxy the mases could find easy and attractive and simple. We can be spoilers though. We can insist that only the Koranist should speak on behalf of the Koran therefore forcing the world(yes the world) to seperate the Koran from "Islam". This can be done by organizing ourselves and having a powerful media able to influence the religious discourse about Islam.
-
salam bigmo. you can call yourself anything you like. do not presume to speak on my behalf or on the behalf of others.
any talk of a new fitna from you, raises in my mind the idea that you are a pagan bent on destroying the muslim community.
may allah protect us from the shaitan.
-
salam bigmo. you can call yourself anything you like. do not presume to speak on my behalf or on the behalf of others.
any talk of a new fitna from you, raises in my mind the idea that you are a pagan bent on destroying the muslim community.
may allah protect us from the shaitan.
There is nothing called Muslim community, there is something called Muslim sects that emerged from the battle of the Camel. Why should I join that party?
-
Salam Brother Bigmo,
I think you made a good point when I talk about God and Qur'an, around me people ask if I am a "Muslim". When I try to say "yes" I am a "muslim" (with a "m" not a "M" because I "submit" (or try my best to) to God's will, and "no", because "Muslims" follow the authority of hadiths, which I reject, they get confused, and in the end prefer keeping on labeling me as mainstream Muslim, but a Muslim that would not be "totally practicing"...
If we want to reclaim the Qur'an and make it known that we think "Muslims" were led astray, you are right Bigmo, it may be a real problem.
And God knows best
-
What bigmo says is ok with me!
Whoso believes and works (does good deeds ) in the cause of salam, even as he is practicing it is indeed a muslim. On the contrary those who call themselves belonging to muslim community can never be muslims. Allah must acknowledge us as 'muslim' and increase us in our state of salam. When Allah chose one and the only Ibrahim from among the kufr community, that was a perfect example!
Now let us remember the ayah that says To whatever community you may belong Be it a mumin's, or christian's, or jew's community or sabians' (unknown communities of people ) whoso believes in the One God and fears the final judgment and do good, neither fear nor grief shall touch them. This is God given salam thus there are chosen muslims from the mankind like Ibrahim was chosen. A great Prophet was chosen from the kufr community and not from the so called 'muslim community.'
. -
there used to be a person called lawrence of arabia. his sole purpose was to incite one muslim against another. he succeeded and muslims have been servants of pagans as a result. therefore i reject any person who says dont call yourself muslims.
allah gave man the names of all things.
-
there used to be a person called lawrence of arabia. his sole purpose was to incite one muslim against another. he succeeded and muslims have been servants of pagans as a result. therefore i reject any person who says dont call yourself muslims.
allah gave man the names of all things.Within pagans one can be set against the other for they are not guided; if they were muslims shaitan Lawrence could not have done in what he had succeeded. A muslim will not be deviated from His straight path. Those who became servants and slaves were never muslims. Do you see anywhere in Quran that the muslims were made slaves? But the command of Allah is there never budge to the pressures; fight and die in righteousness as muslims; stand as firm as a steel fortress against the infidels. If you fail to do so then you have wronged yourselves; allah never let you down. To fortify your iman, turn to God seeking His help so that your iman is strengthened and you can be a mumin. You must have patience to stay as muslims; so seek patience from Allah so that you can be a muslim.
Now let us Pray "O Allah Make us Muslims! Teach us prayer!"
. -
Within pagans one can be set against the other for they are not guided; if they were muslims shaitan Lawrence could not have done in what he had succeeded. A muslim will not be deviated from His straight path. Those who became servants and slaves were never muslims. Do you see anywhere in Quran that the muslims were made slaves? But the command of Allah is there never budge to the pressures; fight and die in righteousness as muslims; stand as firm as a steel fortress against the infidels. If you fail to do so then you have wronged yourselves; allah never let you down. To fortify your iman, turn to God seeking His help so that your iman is strengthened and you can be a mumin. You must have patience to stay as muslims; so seek patience from Allah so that you can be a muslim.
Now let us Pray "O Allah Make us Muslims! Teach us prayer!"
.Salaam
Indeed! Allah never let you down its our own nafs, God will not change our condition unless we change what is within us.
peace -
Within pagans one can be set against the other for they are not guided; if they were muslims shaitan Lawrence could not have done in what he had succeeded. A muslim will not be deviated from His straight path. Those who became servants and slaves were never muslims. Do you see anywhere in Quran that the muslims were made slaves? But the command of Allah is there never budge to the pressures; fight and die in righteousness as muslims; stand as firm as a steel fortress against the infidels. If you fail to do so then you have wronged yourselves; allah never let you down. To fortify your iman, turn to God seeking His help so that your iman is strengthened and you can be a mumin. You must have patience to stay as muslims; so seek patience from Allah so that you can be a muslim.
Now let us Pray "O Allah Make us Muslims! Teach us prayer!"
.I thought Joseph was a slave. Anyways this topic of labels is simply a debate between us since the other side never recognized Koranist as Muslims anyways. I think it only confuses people if we refer to ourselves as Muslims.
-
I thought Joseph was a slave. Anyways this topic of labels is simply a debate between us since the other side never recognized Koranist as Muslims anyways. I think it only confuses people if we refer to ourselves as Muslims.
Salaam,
Joseph was never a slave he was sold into slavery but, instead, was adopted.
peace -
Peace,
What's with all the confusion? The Qur'an never specifies that Abraham used the Arabic word "muslim" to describe himself, and it never says the earlier followers during the days of Abraham were specifically called "muslimeen". There's not even any evidence that they spoke the Arabic language at all... In reality, they were called their language's equivalent of "muslimeen", just like the English rendition would be "submitters". That's why I prefer the word "submission" instead of "islam", and I prefer "submitter" instead of "muslim". And that's also why, based on the context, sectarian Sunni Moslems can be called "Muslims" without being "submitters". To them, "Islam" and "Muslim" are simply titles that identify your sectarian ideologies; they don't have anything to do what the Qur'an says or what religious practices you observe. Using the terms "submission" and "submitters", we convey the same message while still separating ourselves from the sectarian Muslims and their shirk beliefs...
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace,
What's with all the confusion? The Qur'an never specifies that Abraham used the Arabic word "muslim" to describe himself, and it never says the earlier followers during the days of Abraham were specifically called "muslimeen". There's not even any evidence that they spoke the Arabic language at all... In reality, they were called their language's equivalent of "muslimeen", just like the English rendition would be "submitters". That's why I prefer the word "submission" instead of "islam", and I prefer "submitter" instead of "muslim". And that's also why, based on the context, sectarian Sunni Moslems can be called "Muslims" without being "submitters". To them, "Islam" and "Muslim" are simply titles that identify your sectarian ideologies; they don't have anything to do what the Qur'an says or what religious practices you observe. Using the terms "submission" and "submitters", we convey the same message while still separating ourselves from the sectarian Muslims and their shirk beliefs...
Peace,
Ahmad
So are we then supposed to refer to ourselves as Submitters in our respective languages.? Once again you are getting technical when labels are supposed to identify someone or some people from others. How can that happen if each one of us calls ourselves submitters but in different languages?
-
Peace Bigmo,
So are we then supposed to refer to ourselves as Submitters in our respective languages.? Once again you are getting technical when labels are supposed to identify someone or some people from others. How can that happen if each one of us calls ourselves submitters but in different languages?
Again, you're basing your perspective on labels and titles. Allah never deemed us dependent on titles and labels. We are simply submitters (Arabic "muslimeen" to God ALONE. This, based on our own language, is the best title we can give ourselves. Allah never said that all true submitters must speak the Arabic language; so why must we rely on an Arabic label? Most of the world doesn't even know what the words "muslim" and "islam" mean at all; they just view them as generic labels used to identify Arabs and terrorists, which is completely false. Sunni Moslems support this dogma by giving people so-called "muslim names". WHAT IS A MUSLIM NAME? -\ If we're going to identify ourselves to other people, we need to do so in our respective languages, so they'll at least know the meanings of what we're talking about, instead of being forced to jump to false conclusions. That's why I, as a person living in an English-speaking country, prefer the term "submission" and "submitter" to "islam" and "muslim"...
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace Bigmo,
Again, you're basing your perspective on labels and titles. Allah never deemed us dependent on titles and labels. We are simply submitters (Arabic "muslimeen" to God ALONE. This, based on our own language, is the best title we can give ourselves. Allah never said that all true submitters must speak the Arabic language; so why must we rely on an Arabic label? Most of the world doesn't even know what the words "muslim" and "islam" mean at all; they just view them as generic labels used to identify Arabs and terrorists, which is completely false. Sunni Moslems support this dogma by giving people so-called "muslim names". WHAT IS A MUSLIM NAME? -\ If we're going to identify ourselves to other people, we need to do so in our respective languages, so they'll at least know the meanings of what we're talking about, instead of being forced to jump to false conclusions. That's why I, as a person living in an English-speaking country, prefer the term "submission" and "submitter" to "islam" and "muslim"...
Peace,
Ahmad
But you still have not answered the question how are we to be identified. Sooner or later people would simply make a name for us to distinguish us from others. Plus the Koran gave believers many names so why stick with Islam? Why not Nasara or Ahl Al-Kitab. Why not Mu'mins meaning believers. The Koran at one time told new followers to Muhammad to say you are Muslims but not believers till faith reaches you. So Mu'min can be a superior term than Submitters.
-
But you still have not answered the question how are we to be identified. Sooner or later people would simply make a name for us to distinguish us from others. Plus the Koran gave believers many names so why stick with Islam? Why not Nasara or Ahl Al-Kitab. Why not Mu'mins meaning believers. The Koran at one time told new followers to Muhammad to say you are Muslims but not believers till faith reaches you. So Mu'min can be a superior term than Submitters.
Why should "we" be identified? If you're intelligent, do you have to belong to the (inteligentia) group to be identified? Actions speak for us and God will identify us. Isn't that how we connect to others and relate to them, through their behaviour and actions and not their labels?
-
Why should "we" be identified? If you're intelligent, do you have to belong to the (inteligentia) group to be identified? Actions speak for us and God will identify us. Isn't that how we connect to others and relate to them, through their behaviour and actions and not their labels?
Yes I understand but we still have names. And for good reasons. I am trying to be realistic rather than idealistic.
-
Mumin is believing in the God and God alone for all our needs, say, for cure from all diseases, freedom from the financial crunches forever and for peace in the social life until the life ends. If we believe in men and matters and materials then we are against being mumin. We are associating things and men with the unseen God.
Muslims are those who are endowed with the Grant of Grace and Forgiveness and final attainment of PEACE, the final and Greatest victory of all. So seek to be a muslim; never advance before allah and call yourself a muslim or a mumin.
. -
Mumin is believing in the God and God alone for all our needs, say, for cure from all diseases, freedom from the financial crunches forever and for peace in the social life until the life ends. If we believe in men and matters and materials then we are against being mumin. We are associating things and men with the unseen God.
Muslims are those who are endowed with the Grant of Grace and Forgiveness and final attainment of PEACE, the final and Greatest victory of all. So seek to be a muslim; never advance before allah and call yourself a muslim or a mumin.
.Its not what we think of ourselves or what we should call ourselves that I am discussing but how we can be differentiated. Thats what labels are for. By referring to ourselves as Muslims like the sects do we might remain invisible. Whats the point if we remain invisible? The Koran came for mankind and its our duty to propagate it and defend it from the so called Muslims who claim to be its followers and spokespeople.
-
NO.
I follow only the Qur'an and worship God alone,
so i'm a muslim and Islam is my religion."O you who deny the truth...
I do not worship that which you worship,
and neither do you worship that which I worship.
Nor will I serve what you serve,
Nor will you serve what I serve.
To you is your religion, and to me is my religion."That's it.