The Myth that Women have to "Obey" their Husbands
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Farida
If that is the case then even the worst most despicable men are qwamoon over women including the believing, chaste women of high status and intelligence. They can be the most stupid ones on earth, yet have the right to demand obedience from women, who may disobey them only at the peril of physical violence.
This would contradict the teaching of the Qur?an that judges people only on their conduct, not on their gender status. I don?t think that there was a shortage of words for men in Arabic that God should chose the word rajl/rijaal which could mean in yourYou are confusing two different things. In an organization some one has to be head, CEO, MD, similarly in a Family there must be a head for smooth functioning. Both men and women are told to fullfill some responsibilities and if they properly full fill them what are assigned by Allah then only men is head of the family. Over all a women can be a head of state.
We will talk on this in detail. -
Farida
You are confusing two different things. In an organization some one has to be head, CEO, MD, similarly in a Family there must be a head for smooth functioning. Both men and women are told to fullfill some responsibilities and if they properly full fill them what are assigned by Allah then only men is head of the family. Over all a women can be a head of state.
We will talk on this in detail.Salaam Ra-ja
I understand the concept of Qwamoon but, could you explain what you understand by the man being the head of the family. What would be his obligations and his privileges?
peace -
farida
Salaam Ra-ja
I understand the concept of Qwamoon but, could you explain what you understand by the man being the head of the family. What would be his obligations and his privileges?Following is what I understand from Quran regarding man being the head of family, and I think Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib has some good explanations
(344)
Men are the guardians of women, because God has given the one more preference than the other, and because they support them. Consequently, pious women are obedient and keep their secrets for Allah also keeps secrets. And as for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and refuse to share their beds and punish them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Indeed Allah is Exalted and Mighty. (434)
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And in no way covet those things in which God has bestowed His favors on some of you than on others to men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn. And ask God of His bounty. For God has full knowledge of all things. (432)
- Men are guardians of the women in a social set up but in reward towards end it is the one who has fullfilled his responsibility smoothly.
Taking these verses as guiding principle in the organization of a family set-up, we see that a family is like a small organization. Just as every organization requires a head for its establishment and survival, this small organization also requires someone to take charge of its helm. Either the husband could have been bestowed with this responsibility or the wife. The Qur?an informs us that the husband has been entrusted with this responsibility. The expression ? ? has been used by the Qur?an to convey this purport. In Arabic, when the preposition ?? is used after the verb ??, the meanings of ?protection? and ?financial dependency? are incorporated in the verb. A person who is in charge is actually the protector and bread runner of the members that are entrusted in his responsibility.
After declaring that the husband should head a family, the Qur?an goes on to point out certain things to the wife for the smooth functioning of the institution of family, like in any organization of the world They are
- Wives should be obedient and adaptable to their husbands.
- They should keep the secrets of their husbands and protect their honor and integrity
Without obedience and adjustment, no system can work whether it be a state or any other institution. This is the natural requirement of any system. In the absence of these attitudes, no system can function and will ultimately disintegrate by giving way to indiscipline and anarchy.
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farida
Following is what I understand from Quran regarding man being the head of family, and I think Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib has some good explanations(344)
Men are the guardians of women, because God has given the one more preference than the other, and because they support them. Consequently, pious women are obedient and keep their secrets for Allah also keeps secrets. And as for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and refuse to share their beds and punish them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Indeed Allah is Exalted and Mighty. (434)
4
And in no way covet those things in which God has bestowed His favors on some of you than on others to men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn. And ask God of His bounty. For God has full knowledge of all things. (432)
- Men are guardians of the women in a social set up but in reward towards end it is the one who has fullfilled his responsibility smoothly.
Taking these verses as guiding principle in the organization of a family set-up, we see that a family is like a small organization. Just as every organization requires a head for its establishment and survival, this small organization also requires someone to take charge of its helm. Either the husband could have been bestowed with this responsibility or the wife. The Qur?an informs us that the husband has been entrusted with this responsibility. The expression ? ? has been used by the Qur?an to convey this purport. In Arabic, when the preposition ?? is used after the verb ??, the meanings of ?protection? and ?financial dependency? are incorporated in the verb. A person who is in charge is actually the protector and bread runner of the members that are entrusted in his responsibility.
After declaring that the husband should head a family, the Qur?an goes on to point out certain things to the wife for the smooth functioning of the institution of family, like in any organization of the world They are
- Wives should be obedient and adaptable to their husbands.
- They should keep the secrets of their husbands and protect their honor and integrity
Without obedience and adjustment, no system can work whether it be a state or any other institution. This is the natural requirement of any system. In the absence of these attitudes, no system can function and will ultimately disintegrate by giving way to indiscipline and anarchy.
Salaam Ra-ja
You have not answered my question ?what you understand by the man being the head of the family. What would be his obligations and his privileges??
I do not want any explanation from Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib, it was you who volunteered to discuss this in detail with me (We will talk on this in detail.). So let me remind you that a Guardian is not same as the head of the family these are two different roles and have different meaning.because God has given the one more preference than the other,
Pay attention to 432 no one gets preference for nothing, everyone has work to earn it, call it respect or status or obedience to God
After declaring that the husband should head a family,
Who made this declaration you?
Finally, I would like to ask you Do you have an experience of managing a family?
peace -
ba3du ba3du es reciprocal construct. 4.32 doesn't say favor ones over others, but favor one over other and at the same time the other over the one. That is
on account of wht the ones have been favoured over the others over the ones.
Men are free of the burden of pregnancy birth and breast feeding. That is their advantage and also their disadvantage. The are free and not mortgaged by that biological constraint, whi may be in action only for some time during woman's life but which in fact burdens or constrains her whole life because of he expectation or because of what she missed because of being taken up with the biological mothering functions. On the other hand men can only experience fatherhood by relying on women. Therefore god favoured the one over the others and the others over the ones. And because men do not bear the burdens that women bear, they must compensate socially for that burden and work with their own work of some other kind, therefore instead of th bilogical mothering functions they are legitimatelly expected to contribute to the support of those whodo those functions. That is nothing to do with being head of family, that is a matter of social and human justice and equity, because society perpetuates and sustains itself on account of th renewal of its individuals, the breatest biological burden of it falling on females. Men can cheat out of their part, but God is saying that there must be equity between both sexes. No chief, but balance between burdens.
Salaam
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Salaam Ra-ja
You have not answered my question ?what you understand by the man being the head of the family. What would be his obligations and his privileges??
I do not want any explanation from Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib, it was you who volunteered to discuss this in detail with me (We will talk on this in detail.). So let me remind you that a Guardian is not same as the head of the family these are two different roles and have different meaning.Quote
because God has given the one more preference than the other,
Pay attention to 432 no one gets preference for nothing, everyone has work to earn it, call it respect or status or obedience to GodQuote
After declaring that the husband should head a family,
Who made this declaration you?
Finally, I would like to ask you Do you have an experience of managing a family?Salaam to you too...
Oh! I see, you are one of them.
Not want to learn, share and discuss but want to debate, Ok Fari
We discuss it in deatail! in my next post. -
ba3du ba3du es reciprocal construct. 4.32 doesn't say favor ones over others, but favor one over other and at the same time the other over the one. That is
on account of wht the ones have been favoured over the others over the ones.
Men are free of the burden of pregnancy birth and breast feeding. That is their advantage and also their disadvantage. The are free and not mortgaged by that biological constraint, whi may be in action only for some time during woman's life but which in fact burdens or constrains her whole life because of he expectation or because of what she missed because of being taken up with the biological mothering functions. On the other hand men can only experience fatherhood by relying on women. Therefore god favoured the one over the others and the others over the ones.
Good words,huruf..this is how I understand it too..this "heading" issue doesn
t seem to fit the marriage of two capable persons,equal in rights..I do not say duty,because mothers have a big duty of bearing children and giving them birth and nurturing them-a task that alone takes almost three years-..thats when she needs her husbands support the most.. This issue of "whos the head?" has lead some to give biased interpretations to the scripture and others to say "man is the head of the family,but women can also be heads of their nations and countries.."
Everything in life is relative,the word "obey" refers to the woman who "responds" to her husbands civilized trials to give his woman who considers deserting him a chance to re-assess the situation, beating her or slamming her on the face or stroking her with as light object as "mouswak"-as the well known "hadith" suggests-is not a practical solution at all,it would have deepened the wifes desire to leave,and made the situation worse,any sound person cannot accept the degradation of physical hurt..anyone who does is raised to be a slave and not a free-willed person..http//free-minds.org/polygamy1
Peace,
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Salaam to you too...
Oh! I see, you are one of them.
Salaam,
What do you mean by "one of them"? Do you mean those learned women who can detect misleading interpretations of the Qur'an and are not leaning on men/mullah/Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to explain the Qur'an to them?Not want to learn, share and discuss but want to debate, Ok Fari
See your own reflection there, It's you who is unwilling to learn and share, sister Hurufs excellent and unbiased interpretation of you simply ignored it because in your immature manner you refuse to acknowledge what Allah says in the Qur'an, like Brahmin Hindus you would rather take the twisted version to make you feel superior about yourself as the preferred gender. brickwall
6139. They say "What is in the wombs of such and such cattle is specially reserved for our men, and forbidden to our women; but if it is still-born, then all have share therein. For their attribution (to Allah), He will soon punish them for He is full of wisdom and knowledge.We discuss it in deatail! in my next post
Jaa!!! and ask your Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to help you prepare a reply for your next post.
NO! I have no desire to debate with those who do not have even have the manners to address women properly. Ok
May Allah help you to increase your knowledge for your own benefit. -
Good words,huruf..this is how I understand it too..this "heading" issue doesn
t seem to fit the marriage of two capable persons,equal in rights.. This issue of "whos the head?" has lead some to give biased interpretations to the scripture and others to say "man is the head of the family,but women can also be heads of their nations and countries.."Peace,
Salaam
Wife and husband are like the two wheels of a cart who need to support and co-ordinate with each other to make a smooth journey for their family. This absured idea that like; In an organization some one has to be head, CEO, MD, similarly in a Family there must be a head for smooth functioning is not based on reality; companies are mis-managed and go bust by the minute in case they have not heard.
peace
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Salaam
Wife and husband are like the two wheels of a cart who need to support and co-ordinate with each other to make a smooth journey for their family. This absured idea that like; In an organization some one has to be head, CEO, MD, similarly in a Family there must be a head for smooth functioning is not based on reality; companies are mis-managed and go bust by the minute in case they have not heard.
peace
sun I very much agree with you farida,actually the world now is working to get rid of the concept "competition" to turn it into "cooperation" handshake,and that
s another step on the ladder of human progress... I see that verse 432"And do not envy what God has favored some of you over others. For the men is a portion of what they gained, and for the women is a portion of what they gained. And ask God from His favor, God is knowledgeable over all things." is simply asserting the relativity of each individuals abilities and Gods provisions upon them,and no gender should claim to possess certain qualities and see that the other is deprived from them...each individual gains education and experiences that shape their personality and qualify them for certain jobs and missions-that shouldnt be imposed or predetermined-so if a woman reaches a high position and gain better money her husband shouldnt be jealous or envious but rather he believes in his woman and believes that it was Gods gift and provision for her..and the same for women..and it applies for the whole community to get the people rid of negative feelings like jealousy and teaches them to thank god and be grateful for what they have,and to ask him from his favors instead of wishing to see people deprived or lower than them..God is the knowledgeable...
Thank you farida.. peace -
After going through women's posts in this thread, I understand as to why did God declare Rijjal as head of the family.
(By the way there couldn't be a better explaination than Ghamdi's , posted by Raja and moreover, I appreciate that Raja had the integrity to declare it as Ghamdi's)
Jaa!!! and ask your Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to help you prepare a reply for your next post.
farida,
This was very arrogant and rude, Not expected of you.
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Salaam Siki,
and Thanks!farida
Salaam,
What do you mean by "one of them"? Do you mean those learned women who can detect misleading interpretations of the Qur'an and are not leaning on men/mullah/Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to explain the Qur'an to them?If you call yourself learned then I doubt the credibility of the school in which you ever went to.
Quote
Not want to learn, share and discuss but want to debate, Ok Fari
See your own reflection there, It's you who is unwilling to learn and share, sister Hurufs excellent and unbiased interpretation of you simply ignored it because in your immature manner you refuse to acknowledge what Allah says in the Qur'an, like Brahmin Hindus you would rather take the twisted version to make you feel superior about yourself as the preferred gender.
6139. They say "What is in the wombs of such and such cattle is specially reserved for our men, and forbidden to our women; but if it is still-born, then all have share therein. For their attribution (to Allah), He will soon punish them for He is full of wisdom and knowledge.don't try to drag others in this. Let us see how "learned" you are on your own??
farida
Quote
We discuss it in deatail! in my next post
Jaa!!! and ask your Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to help you prepare a reply for your next post.
NO! I have no desire to debate with those who do not have even have the manners to address women properly. Ok
May Allah help you to increase your knowledge for your own benefit.Ignorance is tolerable but arrogance is not, you are an ignorant arrogant, dangerous for your husband and family, I am sure my sixth sense tells me if you were married you are divorced now and if you are not married yet may Allah help you!
See I went to Ghamidi sahib, and he told me "whenever you want to convey the message of Quran to some one be polite, most of the women in our society are not happy with men, because of the treatment of women by men against the teachings of Quran and Islamic shariah. Never mind whatever she calls me or thinks about me, her attributes are with her and mine with me; but we have a job to convey, the understanding of Quran.
farida
NO! I have no desire to debate with those who do not have even have the manners to address women properly. Ok
Oh! so women are something special or are they superior to man or inferior to man?
because if they are equal to man than a "learned" person like you would had not written that "...... who do not have even the manners to address women properly".It is not over yet.
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Yes farida, only men are allowed to be arrogant and rude !
Absolutely!!!
Siki conveniently ignored the sstatement of Ra-jah, who started the insults. Siki lives in Pakistan and knows very well that remark "Ok Fari " was derogatory, yet he encourged Ra-jah to post an even ruder reply to me.
How small minded to be bickring like this and then go on to claim we have a job to convey, the understanding of Quran.
Siki has been appreciative of brother Anwar's post in which being Qwamoon was very well explained and he needs to apply it in practice.
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Dear sister farida.
I don't think Fari is derogatory, out here names like Farida , Farhat , Farhana etc are shortened affectionately to Fari, and you know it very well , and i am quite sure that most of your dear and close ones must be addressing you such, exactly as my name Sikandar is shortened to siki and that's perfectly OK.
But Rajah!
Remember,
You cant take any such liberties , when you are daggers drawn with anyone, specially a woman , and particularly with an intelligent one.
siki
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Siki has been appreciative of brother Anwar's post in which being Qwamoon was very well explained and he needs to apply it in practice.
Peace,
I hope the 'he' doesn't refer to me. I don't remember arguing with anyone here and I have been inactive for a few days now.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salaam.
Well Siki,
as a young women,I am very happy to find these strong voices of females,here.Learned females,that answer,with knowledge and respect.I have a lot to learn.
Did you see the grand mufti,of Saudia,saying 15 of january,in an lecture,that to marry girls from they are ten,is good,and proper,and that a good upbringing,will make a girl capable,to carry out her duties as a wife!
A wife tried trough court,to file for divorce,on her ten year old daughter,that the father married away to a man 50 year old.The court said of course that a wife have no right,not a mother either,and that the girl,could herself filed for divorce,when she reached puberty!
In muslim countries,this is what you called obedience Siki.
How you men,think,when you look at this world,that it is fair and right,that men rule women and that marrige means obediance,I can not understand.
And it is from this disturbed images of women and their duties,from hadith and translations from the Quran,that makes you hold on to it.
I can only say,dream on,Siki.
The other one,that said some very rude words,to Farida,is not even worth mentioning yuck
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Peace,
I hope the 'he' doesn't refer to me. I don't remember arguing with anyone here and I have been inactive for a few days now.
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam brother Anwar
I was not going to participate in the bickering on this issue, this is too demeaning, I now logged in just to let you know that the 'he' did not refer to you but to Siki.
I would be looking forward to your unbiased and just contribution though, keep up the good work. handshake
peace
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Dear sister farida.
I don't think Fari is derogatory, out here names like Farida , Farhat , Farhana etc are shortened affectionately to Fari, and you know it very well , and i am quite sure that most of your dear and close ones must be addressing you such, exactly as my name Sikandar is shortened to siki and that's perfectly OK.
But Rajah!
Remember,
You cant take any such liberties , when you are daggers drawn with anyone, specially a woman , and particularly with an intelligent one.
siki
To the above, please refer to quran 4911.
Why is your name "Sikandar"? PM any reply regarding your name.
Salaam.
Well Siki,
as a young women,I am very happy to find these strong voices of females,here.Learned females,that answer,with knowledge and respect.I have a lot to learn.
Did you see the grand mufti,of Saudia,saying 15 of january,in an lecture,that to marry girls from they are ten,is good,and proper,and that a good upbringing,will make a girl capable,to carry out her duties as a wife!
A wife tried trough court,to file for divorce,on her ten year old daughter,that the father married away to a man 50 year old.The court said of course that a wife have no right,not a mother either,and that the girl,could herself filed for divorce,when she reached puberty!
In muslim countries,this is what you called obedience Siki.
A menarchecal female marrying a post andropausal male is a good thing. Good genes from the old male go to the female for reproduction. But also, that young woman will learn about such things as sexual matters better from her old experienced husband than from her mother. This would also make sense in regards to the verses that state marry women if you fear for orphans, as in the old husbands that die and leave young women behind.
As for that court case, is that the one where the father asked the groom for more money?