Virgins in paradise
-
Peace drfazl
The Foremost
9100 And the foremost who came early from amongst the emigrants and the supporters, and those who followed them in kindness; God has accepted them, and they have accepted Him; and He prepared for them estates with rivers flowing beneath in which they will abide eternally. Such is the great success.
9100
according to the above verse, they were among the believers during the prophet time, and any other believer whom follow their footstep--they are the true believers.Dear belH,
While Quran is for all times, then try applying it to today's eventualities. We are here living today and we are going to live tomorrow; our past has been Forgiven and we have forgotten whatever that had transpired of us; for that is the God, Almighty's Grace! So apply the ayats of Quran for now and for tomorrow, if we consider it as a guidance for us from God. Apply the ayat 9 100 in real time today, and then rewrite your opinion for today's and for application in future. Now who are the people Foremost?
The following verses are some of the attributes of the foremost
2357 As for those who are in reverence from the awareness of their Lord.
2358 And they believe in the revelations of their Lord.
2359 And they do not associate lies with their Lord.
2360 And they give of what they were given, and their hearts are full of reverence that they will return to their Lord.
2361 These are the ones who race in doing good, and they are the first to it (Sabikoon-"Foremost".
These ayats pertains to the present context and to the people living today and for the future. It does not cater to the messengers' time. If you apply this ayat with relevance to today and tomorrow it will be well appreciated.
I believe that the foremost are the ones who follow the footstep of Messengers; they are the sect of God who carry out the mission of spreading the truth among people and protecting the truth from lies;
How do we spread the message of God in truth and protect the truth from lies according to Quran? For only such people are considered following the footsteps of messengers in the ranks foremost.
and when doing so, some get killed and others die normally (some prophets died normally and others were killed; and both type are among the foremost group). These group would be among the witnesses in JD;
Let me make this one clear from you. You get at it like the foremost are the messengers alone or there are foremost among the present and future populace too? If you say yes to the above question then, what you are saying below will have to be re-written suitably.
The people of the right
1771 The Day We call every people by their Scripture. Then, whoever are given their record by their right, they will relate their record, and they will not be wronged in the least.
1771those are the people of right; they will not be among the witnesses, but among the ones whom will be under judgment. I believe they are the ones whom followed God's book but did not choose to confront the lies and spread the truth.
Thus, the Foremost are the Believers and the People of the Right are the Submitter (moslem).
I hope I did well in this one; may God forgive me if I made mistake.
And Finally, please note in chapter 56, the two Groups that are going to heaven will have Wives; moreover if you read chapter 55, you will note how God is describing the two different type of wives of Heaven.
Yes, but who is who and who for who is the question.
Please note that if your argument is that Only the ones whom were killed in God's cause will have Hoor eleen is true, then what about the females who get killed in God's cause or how about Prophet Mohamed or Abrahim who died normally? do you think they will not be rewarded with the Foremost Group?
No, I did not say what you presume.
May God bless.
Peace.
-
Peace all
drfazl, I have showed who are the Foremost and the people of Right in our recent days. my end conclusion was
the Foremost are the Believers and the People of the Right are the Submitter (moslem)Which means that The foremost in our recent days are the ones who follow the footstep of God's Messengers (they deliver and protect God's Messages). On the other hand, the people of right are the ones who follow God's Laws that are written in his Books (Quran, Torah and Injeel), and they do not associate lies to God's religion nor they follow Humans religious teachings that is not written in Quran.
Please note that the Foremost = Submitter + Spreading God's Messages and protecting it from Lies.No, I did not say what you presume.
Sorry if I misunderstood you but can you clarify what you wrote here
Then finally with regard to 'hoor ul ein'! They are only for those who were raised as witnesses - shahidis and about who Allah wanted us to make clear that we shall not call them the dead for they sacrificed their lives in the path of Allah! Those are the people went way ahead and advanced before us. Their paradise in Jannath - ADNU.
The above can be understood that Hoor ul ein are only for the ones who were killed in God's cause.
Peace
-
Since you have reached the end conclusion, I would like to be as precise as possible. When I have said those who are raised as witnesses it does not mean they are necessarily to be killed; they may die a natural death also while in the path of Allah, fighting a life against an all round enemy shaitan. Allah says "Say not as dead those who are killed or died in the path of Allah; they are living and Allah is feeding them." These are the foremost I said. These people are not the people of prophets' time alone but those who went before them and shall go after them following the path of Allah fighting their lives against shaitan, till the world ends. Therefore the foremost will form into a large chunk of the people and from the Right a small group of people will make to heavens of their due. Hoorul ein are for the foremost. What or Who are these hoorul eins? May Allah teach us and reward us!
Without being a Believer in the first place there is no possibility of submitting. Believers alone can be submitters and hence they are just one and the same group of people.
Peace.
.
-
Peace drfazl
When I have said those who are raised as witnesses it does not mean they are necessarily to be killed; they may die a natural death also while in the path of Allah, fighting a life against an all round enemy shaitan.
Agree
Allah says "Say not as dead those who are killed or died in the path of Allah; they are living and Allah is feeding them." These are the foremost I said.
There is no mentioning of "Or Died" in the verse.
3169 And do not think that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving a bounty.
These people are not the people of prophets' time alone but those who went before them and shall go after them following the path of Allah fighting their lives against shaitan, till the world ends. Therefore the foremost will form into a large chunk of the people and from the Right a small group of people will make to heavens of their due.
drfazl; the ones who are killed in the sake of Allah are not among any of the groups in JD...they are already in Heaven while me and you speaking at this moment...they will not wait for JD as the Foremost and the people of the right do.
Hoorul ein are for the foremost. What or Who are these hoorul eins? May Allah teach us and reward us!
agree; Hoor ul ein is one type of the Heaven's wives; never the less, there is another type for the people of right that is mentioned as will in the chapter.
Without being a Believer in the first place there is no possibility of submitting. Believers alone can be submitters and hence they are just one and the same group of people.
4914 The Nomads said ?We believe.? Say ?You have not believed; but you should say ?We have submitted?, for belief has not yet entered into your hearts.? If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
4915 Believers are those who believe in God and His messenger, then they became without doubt, and they strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones.
4916 Say ?Are you teaching God about your system while God knows everything in the heavens and the Earth? God is knowledgeable of all things.?Allah knows his system when saying that submitting is less than believing.
May God bless and increase your knowledge
Peace
-
Dear belH,
Peace drfazl
There is no mentioning of "Or Died" in the verse.
3169 And do not think that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving a bounty.
Please read the ayat 3 169 with the ayat 3 157. You will find here that Allah's reward is the same for the people thus martyred.
drfazl; the ones who are killed in the sake of Allah are not among any of the groups in JD...they are already in Heaven while me and you speaking at this moment...they will not wait for JD as the Foremost and the people of the right do.
If you read 7 46 you will find wherefrom I derived my point. They are yet to enter; and are waiting to enter the heavens on the JD.
4914 The Nomads said ?We believe.? Say ?You have not believed; but you should say ?We have submitted?, for belief has not yet entered into your hearts.? If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
4915 Believers are those who believe in God and His messenger, then they became without doubt, and they strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones.
4916 Say ?Are you teaching God about your system while God knows everything in the heavens and the Earth? God is knowledgeable of all things.?
Allah knows his system when saying that submitting is less than believing.The problem here is while Allah says the submitters are not considered at all as having Iman in their hearts, though they might claim to be so. Therefore the meaning goes thus 4914 The Nomads said ?We believe.? Say ?You have not believed; but you should say ?We have rituals?, for belief has not yet entered into your hearts.? If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
So be not a submitter merely following certain rituals without Iman.
May God bless and increase your knowledge
Please say, "May God increase OUR Knowledge."
Peace
.
-
It sounds like an entirely irrelevant argument. Think about it, do you think an eternal heaven is something any of us would want right now? Our will to live goes up and down depending on how much meaning we can interpret to life (the driving reason being dopamine, the brain chemical via which these particular human perceptions are mediated). Considering that, why should a person's wife make it into heaven? There is a good chance they will be in hell so I don't see why it would be one's wife. Sometimes a cursory look at the most basic facets is all it takes.
-
Not one of us shall want to go up and then down! Is it not for a better and meaningful life that we pray for? And will not God admit and allow? Will you not wish your household too lead a life to the fullest satisfaction of God and may they enter the garden with you? So that Allah's promise of recompense holds good even in this world and in the life thereafter? At which point shall you enter the eternal life of no death after your freedom from all physical limitations, the death of this life! If you have a cursory look, it will be ending up in argument; for a cursory look has no view points for discussion and to elevation. The contents of the Book is not meant for casual reading.
.
-
It sounds like an entirely irrelevant argument. Think about it, do you think an eternal heaven is something any of us would want right now? Our will to live goes up and down depending on how much meaning we can interpret to life (the driving reason being dopamine, the brain chemical via which these particular human perceptions are mediated). Considering that, why should a person's wife make it into heaven? There is a good chance they will be in hell so I don't see why it would be one's wife. Sometimes a cursory look at the most basic facets is all it takes.
I can see you don't have a wife or child.
-
I can see you don't have a wife or child.
Correct. My immediate assumption is that you're trying to drive a point home by inducing an emotional reaction. If that's your ploy, don't even bother. It won't work.
I do have a rather large family however. I don't see any reason as to why my ultimate fate is related to theirs. But I want to understand it from your POV, why do you feel that your family has to go in with you? In the book it's said that every soul will have a fair recompense. You can only influence another being in the right direction (more like, your percieved right direction) but it's up to them to really choose.
-
Peace Amid,
There is no such things as virgins in Paradise. Thats a misreading. A virgin is called 'bikr'(singular) or 'abkar'(plural). But what we have in paradise is pure(motahara). This word was used regarding mentruation. So we can say that the woman in Paradise don't have menstrual cycles. I believe that these woman are believing woman and not de novo creation. Also the boy servants maybe people who died young. Who knows. The dwellers of paradise are the angels and the believers.
Peace,
Rami
-
Correct. My immediate assumption is that you're trying to drive a point home by inducing an emotional reaction. If that's your ploy, don't even bother. It won't work.
I do have a rather large family however. I don't see any reason as to why my ultimate fate is related to theirs. But I want to understand it from your POV, why do you feel that your family has to go in with you? In the book it's said that every soul will have a fair recompense. You can only influence another being in the right direction (more like, your percieved right direction) but it's up to them to really choose.
I'm not trying to induce an emotional reaction. I was honestly confused about what the Qur'an said on the topic, but some of the people on this board explained it. It seems that a man will be with wife in paradise, if she deserved paradise. Those who do not have a wife will be given one, that's my understanding. God knows best.
-
I believe that these woman are believing woman and not de novo creation. Also the boy servants maybe people who died young. Who knows. The dwellers of paradise are the angels and the believers.
Peace
I think What you said above are in contrary to what in Quran; if you think otherwise, please show your Quranic proof.
Thanks
-
I'm not trying to induce an emotional reaction. I was honestly confused about what the Qur'an said on the topic, but some of the people on this board explained it. It seems that a man will be with wife in paradise, if she deserved paradise. Those who do not have a wife will be given one, that's my understanding. God knows best.
Thanks for the clarification.
At the end of the day world, the only thing we'll have to carry ourselves into the splendour of our creator is ourselves. So why bother on arguing about what comes next when it's going to come anyway and we'll find out for sure?
-
Peace
I think What you said above are in contrary to what in Quran; if you think otherwise, please show your Quranic proof.
Thanks
Gardens of perpetual bliss they shall enter there, as well as the righteous among their fathers, their spouses, and their offspring and angels shall enter unto them from every gate (with the salutation) Peace unto you for that ye persevered in patience! Now how excellent is the final home!) (Ar-Ra`d 1323-24).
( And they who believe and whose seed follow them in faith, We cause their seed to join them (there), and We deprive them of naught of their (life?s) work. Every man is responsible for that which he hath earned) (At-Tur 5221).
( Lo! those who merit Paradise this day are happily employed, they and their wives, in pleasant shade, on thrones reclining) (Ya-Sin 3655-56).
It was posted by IronSky earlier in the thread.
-
Thanks for the clarification.
At the end of the day world, the only thing we'll have to carry ourselves into the splendour of our creator is ourselves. So why bother on arguing about what comes next when it's going to come anyway and we'll find out for sure?
I don't understand what you just said. The first sentence I understood, but the second one I'm confused about.
-
Gardens of perpetual bliss they shall enter there, as well as the righteous among their fathers, their spouses, and their offspring and angels shall enter unto them from every gate (with the salutation) Peace unto you for that ye persevered in patience! Now how excellent is the final home!) (Ar-Ra`d 1323-24).
( And they who believe and whose seed follow them in faith, We cause their seed to join them (there), and We deprive them of naught of their (life?s) work. Every man is responsible for that which he hath earned) (At-Tur 5221).
( Lo! those who merit Paradise this day are happily employed, they and their wives, in pleasant shade, on thrones reclining) (Ya-Sin 3655-56).
It was posted by IronSky earlier in the thread.
Peace
The above verses does not say that the earth wives will become Hoor Elain (the Hean wives) nor my kids , whom are growing to become man and woman will become "Kulman" (the Heaven Kids)--Kids again. In other words, I do not believe that I will be the child of my father and mother in Heaven (that if God allow me to enter heaven).This is the heaven Kids that I'm talking about
5224 And around them will be children like protected pearls.
And the Heaven wives are Hoor Eleen (I mentioned the verses before)
Peace -
Peace
The above verses does not say that the earth wives will become Hoor Elain (the Hean wives) nor my kids , whom are growing to become man and woman will become "Kulman" (the Heaven Kids)--Kids again. In other words, I do not believe that I will be the child of my father and mother in Heaven (that if God allow me to enter heaven).This is the heaven Kids that I'm talking about
5224 And around them will be children like protected pearls.
And the Heaven wives are Hoor Eleen (I mentioned the verses before)
PeaceWhat? I never said that the earth wives will become Hoor Elain. The verse clearly says that the righteous fathers, spouses, and offspring will enter heaven. What is it about my post that confuses you?
-
What? I never said that the earth wives will become Hoor Elain. The verse clearly says that the righteous fathers, spouses, and offspring will enter heaven. What is it about my post that confuses you?
Peace
If you read the thread from the beginning, you will note why I misunderstood you. Any way, sorry for the misunderstanding.Peace