Help with Quranic Word!
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Thanks, Sis. Then the rule you have cited does not apply in case under discussion. , this and other examples you have cited are example of what is called euphonic teshdeed. It is a case of Shamsi letters. In this situation preceeding consonant does not have a vowel. Another classic and well know example, similar to yours cited above that you have equated to , is use of . In these cases tesdeed is used to avoid harsness of sound of vowelless consonant that preceed teshdeed. It assimilates preceeding voweless consonant with the following consonant. Just like in . However, in our Qur'anic structure under discussion, this is not the case. We just agreed upon that tenwin is a vowel. Hence, the tesdeed on can not be just euphonic- like you are suggesting, because in all cases it is preceeded by vowel tenwin.
Just one example 6948Please read this issue in William Wright's Book vol.1 pages 13-16.
http//www.ghazali.org/arabic/WrightArabicGrammarVol1.pdf
With lots of respect and very humbly, your brother in Islam.
Badar
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Thanks, Sis. Then the rule you have cited does not apply in case under discussion. , this and other examples you have cited are example of what is called euphonic teshdeed. It is a case of Shamsi letters.
http//www.ghazali.org/arabic/WrightArabicGrammarVol1.pdfShamsi letters work with the definite article. It's one part of assimilation, together with double similar letters (or phonemes) where the first has a sukuun. These two examples work within the one wrod. Another kind of assimilation works accross two words, one of them is , where two similar letters where the first one has a sukuun but exists as the final letter of the preceding word (part two of the first kind)
First kind (within the same word)
1- Case of shamsi letters
2- Two similar letters where the first has a sukuun
3- Two phonemes where the first has a sukuun, such IDDala3a where the is actually an assimilation of the original and the of the pttern of form VIII put in the form = =
Second kind (accros two adjacent words)1- Two similar letters where the first is the final letter of the first word and is in sukuun, and the second is the initial letter of the followig word.
2- When the first letter of the second word is and the final letter of the preceding word carries a nunnation.Second kind where two different words are assimilated in one word
Mostly case of prepositions where two phonemes are in two different adjacent words. such as the case of + +
(You may even find other kinds, but these are what I can think of for now).
(phoneme two letters who share all the characteristics except for one, and thus have different sounds. In some situations when the different characteristic is abolished, they have a similar sound. Example the m and the b, who only differ in that one is nazal (m) and the other is explosive (b). When one has cold and their nose is blocked, they pronounce the m as b. In case of assimilation in Arabic, one of the letter assimilates the other and changes its sound to its own, with a shadda)
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Sis thanks for detailed answer. I think we are heading in the correct direction. I am in the prcocess of a move. In another 45 minutes I shall be embarking on a 1000 mile drive. We will continue this very enlightening and learning discusssion, little later, once I seatle down. I really appreciate you patients and cool temper in putting up with an illiterate like me.
Badar
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Sis thanks for detailed answer. I think we are heading in the correct direction. I am in the prcocess of a move. In another 45 minutes I shall be embarking on a 1000 mile drive. We will continue this very enlightening and learning discusssion, little later, once I seatle down. I really appreciate you patients and cool temper in putting up with an illeterate like me.
Badar
You're welcome, and thanks for the kind words. I am a teacher BTW, so the "illiterates" are essential for me and can't complain from them ;D
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A very crucial discussion going on at this site. I feel that the problem with so many disagreements on the meanings and interpretation of Qur'an is because of some deficiency on our part to correctly apply the grammar rules as were utilised by the original writers (Katibeen) of the revelations as dictated by the Prophet (S) at the time of the revelations. In original script, the various vowel signs were not put on, as it was a local language and clearly understood by all. As the Holy Book started to go beyond the bounds of the tribe, the locals were concerned that others may not see the words as they are meant to be and hence wrote the books of grammar, explaining the need for fatah, kesrah, Gezm , teshdeed and so on and so forth. The purpose was not just to improve the recitation (as in tajweed), but was to convey the correct words and hence the correct meaning and hence the correct message. We emphasize too much on the Tajweed only for the betterment of recitation, often forgetting that the purpose of the book is to exactly understand the message of God, without any doubts. If we have decoded each and every word with the help of these very vital signs above and below each of the words in the Quran, technically we should have a unified translation, taking away the need for assumptions and explanations utilised by scholars in later times.
We at the present times are at a great advantage point compared to many scholars from the past who had to spend their lifetime just to gather the information, before they could write up the explanations. The internet has revolutionised the accees to all the literature from remote past at the finger tips of all those who may be interested. There are english translations of all great Arabic scholars who had written books on the grammatical and lexical concepts utilised in the writing of the script and the language in general, at the time of the Prophet(S). There are multiple books such as Edward Lanes translation of lexical concepts, William Wrights book of grammar, Palmer book of grammar and other six volume book of grammar by great scholars, which are translations of work done within about the first century Hijra, and written then to preserve the understanding of the writing techniques used by local Arabs of that time and hence the meaning and hence the message. God thus fulfills his promise to save the message not only in the original text but also with these great books of grammar and lexicons which has preserved the original meanings and the writing techniques of the script of Qur'an utilised by the companions.
We should all try to utilise these books of lexicon and grammar and read the concepts of vowel and all other signs as gezm, teshdeed etc again and again. Once we are clear in our minds, we all should join hands and pick each and every word of Qur'an and try to confirm the meaning utilising the above tecnique. I feel that a lot of words in the Holy Book are compound words, joining multiple words and not just one word as may appear by the script tecnique. Thus breaking them down into each of those words will become critical before we can actually understand the meaning. A simple example is Alhamdu Lillah. Here every one will agree that Al is a separate word, although written and zipped together, indicated by a Gezm at the end of Al, meaning of which separately is THE. Alhamdu is therefore not one word, but a compound word made up of more than one word, but written together as it was the writing technique of that time. It is this concept of writing technique and hence decoding and unzipping all words, so to say, in it, is important towards our understanding. This can be clarified with the help of these great translations of previous Arab Lexical and Grammar scholars. Those who are lucky and can read and understand the original lexicon and grammar books from where these translations are done may do so in the original language as they are all available on line. We can then analyze all words and make sure we have done everything in our power to understand the message of our Creator without any doubt and disagreement. Effort at understanding is all we can do. This could be a great project for a dedicated team to join hands and analyze each and every word and see if we can improve our understanding of this timeless message. handshake
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Thanks kn. I am glad you are culminating the understanding and prerequisites of understanding of language fast. This joining of hands is what my call has been about. To revive a langauge that is no more spoken and written by natives is not one man job. We need lots of hands with lots of dedication.
Sis, samia thanks again for your reply. I will get back to issue of Teshdeed later. But let me pick your brain on another issue. Is your understanding about Tenwin, that it is applied over last alphabet of a word or there are any exceptions to this rule? Thanks in advance.
Badar
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Is your understanding about Tenwin, that it is applied over last alphabet of a word or there are any exceptions to this rule? Thanks in advance.
Badar
So far I haven't seen a tanween in the middle of a word. Have you or any one else? If not, then yes, it's a rule.
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Thanks Sis again, this is what I learned so far while learning grammar. But than what would you about this word
Thanks.
Badar
This is an issue of writing not grammar.Here is how grammarians explain it
The pronunciation is a main aspect of the tanween, which is a final nuun with a sukuun. The alif r alif maqsuura (as the above case) do not show any pronunciation for any short vowel, and thus are considered like letters carrying a sukuun. In Arabic you cannot have two consecutive sukuuns, otherwise it would be difficult or rather impossible to pronounce this combination. That's why in these to cases the tanween is conveniently put immediately after the last short vowel which is usually carried on the letter before last. This is merely convenience to make a pronunciation possible.If you make the alif maqsuura an extra alif carrying the tanween, the resulting pronunciation is the same
(both pronounced as "huda"
(both pronounced as hudan)
and is the same also for the word (stick)Here is the grammarians definition of the tanween
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Definition of tanween It's a nuun carrying a sukuun, situated at the end of a word from a pronunciation prespective and not a spelling prespective.
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Thanks Sister,
I have now checked that it occurred for 29 times in Quran, denoting rather distinct and peculiar meanings, "then; in that case; resultantly; the sequal"
Lane [Page 41 Vol 1} It denotes a response, or reply, corroborating a condition.........
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Dear Sister your response raises several issues that need discussion and clarification.
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Tajweed can not be just equated to correct recitation. As a mater of fact all languages develop as spoken language first. The scripts are developed later to preserve spoken language. Hence the need to preserve as close to spoken language in script, so by creating sounds close to a given spoken language, one can understand same meanings as originally intended. Otherwise there could be no purpose of making sounds as close to spoken, originally. Hence purpose of Tajweed should be understood in this context. This to convey proper meaning of words by reading the script.
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As for Tewin to just say it for making sounds or facilitate pronunciation could not be the only purpose. Furthermore, all translation of Arabic works of Grammar. This includes William Wright, Fisher, Palmar and Lutuf ur Rehman from Quran College in Lahore Pakistan agree. That Tewins are used to decline nouns. In this situation it is applied over last word. Grammatically and orthographically these are Tenwin of Fetha Accusative or in Arabic Nsab, Tenwin of Duma Nominative or in Arabic Rafa and Tenwin of Kesra Genitive or in Arabic Jer.
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Tenwins are placed on final alphabet of a word, I have found no exceptions so far.
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Tenwin of Fetha is followed by an Alif, but does not add any to meaning to the word.
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Hence keeping these in mind word . root can not be but it should be .
6 However, question remains why a was preferred in script over an Alif to follow a Tenwin of Fetha in this case?
- More on Tenwin later.
- Comments welcome.
Badar
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Dear Sister your response raises several issues that need discussion and clarification.
- Tajweed can not be just equated to correct recitation. As a mater of fact all languages develop as spoken language first. The scripts are developed later to preserve spoken language. Hence the need to preserve as close to spoken language in script, so by creating sounds close to a given spoken language, one can understand same meanings as originally intended. Otherwise there could be no purpose of making sounds as close to spoken, originally. Hence purpose of Tajweed should be understood in this context. This to convey proper meaning of words by reading the script.
Allow me to disagree with you here. To preserve as close to spoken langage in script one has to believe first that the script was revealed in a spoken language. This is not the undersanding of Arabic grammarians who invented classical Aabc and tashkeel (hardly found in any spoken Arabic). The proof is that Arabic grammar rules are often diregarded in the language of the qur'aan. Moreover, no spoken Arabic I know of apply any of the rules of Tajweed. Tajweed is an extra compilcation to the language, applied only to qur'aan. Why? If it conveys proper meaning, it would have been applied to hadith, e.g. If we can understand hadith and classical poetry in their far from beautiful language without tajweed, we can defintely undersand the qur'aan without it.
- As for Tewin to just say it for making sounds or facilitate pronunciation could not be the only purpose. Furthermore, all translation of Arabic works of Grammar. This includes William Wright, Fisher, Palmar and Lutuf ur Rehman from Quran College in Lahore Pakistan agree. That Tewins are used to decline nouns. In this situation it is applied over last word. Grammatically and orthographically these are Tenwin of Fetha Accusative or in Arabic Nsab, Tenwin of Duma Nominative or in Arabic Rafa and Tenwin of Kesra Genitive or in Arabic Jer.
I do not know who says tanween is to facilitate pronunciaation; I do not any way. And yes there are tanweens of declination and nomination, but they are hardly used in the spoken language. In most spoken dialects, there are some words which are usually only pronounced with tanween fat7a such as ithan; jiddan (very); ghadan (tomorrow); 7alan (immediately); qaT3an (sure)....I do not know of words in the spoken language where the tanweens of declination and nomination are used, not in my dialect at least.
- Tenwin of Fetha is followed by an Alif, but does not add any to meaning to the word.
Not nececessarily. Words ending in taa marbuuta; isolated hamza; alif maqsuura; original alif or alif with a hamza do not carry an extra alif and have the tanween above the final alphabet, for example
I agree with you that it does not add to the meaning, but it's more for emphasis.
- Hence keeping these in mind word . root can not be but it should be .
6 However, question remains why a was preferred in script over an Alif to follow a Tenwin of Fetha in this case?
Point 5 is not correct, hence your wondering in point 6. The alif maqsuura is never an extra letter. It is not part of the letters that change the pattern of a word or are affixed/suffixed/prefixed to the root to have a new pattern. The only extra alif (or maybe it's the origine?!!) is the alif maqsuura to make an adjective feminine, exactly like the taa marbutta, as in akbar (m) kubraa (f)
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Allow me to disagree with you here. To preserve as close to spoken langage in script one has to believe first that the script was revealed in a spoken language. This is not the undersanding of Arabic grammarians who invented classical Aabc and tashkeel (hardly found in any spoken Arabic).
Sister, by using word SCRIPT, I was not implying great reading/Alkitab itself. There is no doubt the book was revealed in the spoken language of people prophet's time. This spoken langauge could have been only preserved by writting, using a form of script of writting. This the vary written script that we have today with us. There is nobody who anymore speaks or even writes this language any more. If I understood you correctly you are acknowledging this fact as well.
I agree Tajweed as promoted and understood today is complete distraction for understanding the Alkitab.
Hence keeping these in mind word . root can not be but it should be .
Why can not a here indicate a personal pronoun following ? in accusative case i.e, with tenwin of fetha.Badar