Intercourse: Allowed During Fasting!
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Dear brothers and sisters,
There were no abrogation in Quran. Allah does not correct His own words and ayats. It is only the wrong understanding of the ayat that led the people talk on subjects such as Allah has abrogated the verses of Quran. One of the ayats cited with reference to abrogation is 2 187! Here is an analysis of the ayat in its correct sense.
In 2 187
Thus Ramadhan is explained!
The Myth before the ayat descended; and
The Truth after the ayat descended!The Myth It is not allowed for you to be with your wives on the night of fasting.
The Truth It is allowed for you to be with your wives on the nights of fasting because the fasting period is only during the day time. With this ayat the confusion created by the people then, were given a clear explanation and the controversy ended there.But then, the same confusion persisted with the day time whether it is allowed to be with the wives are not.
The Myth You cannot!
The Truth You can! Allah is aware that you deceive yourselves in privacy; He forgave you with Mercy; It is like passing urine which you have to voluntarily void; It is like passing motion which you have to actively evacuate; similarly so, as the semen builds, fills and swells up it is to be let out in the just manner. So, henceforth make gains with your wives as permitted by Allah.When you shall not be with your wives?
The Myth Do not have intercourse when you are in the mosques in Allah's remembrance
The Truth join not your wives when you are in your houses in Allah's remembrance;-
such is the limit set by Allah; and never trespass; thus Allah makes His signs clear inorder that you may ward off.Please think afresh and say something solidly from your own senses with points valid. It will be greatly appreciated if 1500 years old stories and hear says are not repeated here. Any original contributions?
May Allah Bless Us All In This!
Masha Allah!.
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It had been made permissible for you people during the night of fasting to go to your wives for exercising matrimonial relationship; they are the apparel for you and you are apparel for them . Allah has known that you people lessen/do not deliver the rights of your own selves, therefore He has paid attention upon you and He has overlooked/removed it away from you. Therefore, NOW have intercourse with them and you people seek what Allah has written for you people; and you people eat and drink till such time it becomes distinct/evident for you the white streak out of blackish streak, hence afterwards observe fast towards the night ;and you people do not intercourse with them when you are devoting for Allah in the mosques. These are the limits set by Allah, therefore, do not overstep. This is how Allah makes His Ayat distinct/evident for people so that they are cautious, heedful and mindful .
In the month of Ramzan matrimonial association with the wives and eating and drinking has been allowed during the night upto a defined culminating moment/point in time; and thereafter the instructions are to complete fasting upto the point in time of night, the sun set. In ordinary perception the night duration is from sun set to sunrise, but the night of Ramzan has been restricted to a a point in time much earlier than sun rise.
In other months matrimonial association is allowed after Salat Isha and before Salat Fajr and at mid day. Salat Isha is timed much after the sun set and salat fajr is timed upto just before the sun rise. The time shortened in Ramzan in the early hours of morning have been compensated by allowing sex immediately after sun set .
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Peace,
It has been never in Quran stated that intercourse during the fasting is prohibited. Is there any ayat that prohibits? Please cite if any...
It is exactly like saying "it has never been stated in Quran that eating and drinking during the fasting is prohibited."
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It is exactly like saying "it has never been stated in Quran that eating and drinking during the fasting is prohibited."
Here it is exactly said
...and eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till night
It has been never in Quran stated that intercourse during the fasting is prohibited. Is there any ayat that prohibits? Please cite if any....
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Here it is exactly said
...and eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till night
It has been never in Quran stated that intercourse during the fasting is prohibited. Is there any ayat that prohibits? Please cite if any....
Therefore, NOW have intercourse with them/your wives and you people seek what Allah has written for you people and eat and drink till such time it becomes distinct/evident for you the white streak out of blackish streak, hence afterwards observe fast towards the night. Three things are allowed to be done, "and" is in between intercourse and eating and drinking. If the later two are prohibited without having been said so how the first could be understood exactly opposite to it?
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Therefore, NOW have intercourse with them/your wives and you people seek what Allah has written for you people and eat and drink till such time it becomes distinct/evident for you the white streak out of blackish streak, hence afterwards observe fast towards the night. Three things are allowed to be done, "and" is in between intercourse and eating and drinking. If the later two are prohibited without having been said so how the first could be understood exactly opposite to it?
Among the three things 2 are being consumed internally i.e., eating and drinking. But the third one is expending the waste which will over flow if not voided like urine and motion; and that which shall soil you if not evacuated when necessary. Reconsider now and relearn the ayat afresh. Here is how best we shall understand by the leave of Allah without the taint of hadith or the practice in vogue
Here is the very beginning of the ayat! It is permitted to be with your wives on the nights of fasting. Where is the question for this at all when the fasting begins only from the dawn and ends at dusk? This part of the ayat has been necessitated from Allah because the mischief mongers like the mullah-hadith propagandists, swearing by the prophet, threateningly enforced the falsehood, in the name of the prophet, upon the people that they could not have the relationship with their wives. With the first part of the ayat the confusion created by the hadith miscreants of all times is put to end.
Now comes the second part of the ayat relating to the day time "They are your garments and you are their garments." Garments are mostly essential only during the day time. You as husband and wife have to don each other the clothing with purity, removing and eliminating the lewdness as and when necessary, especially during the days of fasting. Such is the holiness Allah attributes to the relationship between the wife and husband as purifying and lawful. Each shall protect each other's dignity by being lawful to each other that they be free from any lewdness in the heart during the fasting period and don on each other the garment of self-esteem and dignity. Allah loves such purity at heart free from all indecencies especially during the fasting. But herein again the hadith mischief-mongers obstructed the straight path to purity, allowing lewdness to creep into the heart through abstention; and make us spend the days of fasting with pent-up emotions! This is no fasting at all for reasons obvious. Now comes Allah's dissatisfaction and contempt for such followers and the warning from Him goes thus
Allah is Aware that you were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He has turned in mercy toward you and forgiven you. So hold intercourse with them and seek the purity that which Allah hath ordained for you.
After this the rest of the parts of the ayat goes about eating and drinking. Intercourse is entirely a different matter; it is not like eating and drinking; but removal of bad emotions like voiding of urine and evacuating the bowels to remove the impurities from our body. intercourse is elimination of the bad emotions and best protection for the mind whose purity is of at most important for the completion of fasting.
Finally comes the guidance when you shall not be with your wives. This is, when you vow and determinedly begin your ihram i.e., being in remembrance of Allah alone for a day or two or three, abstain from your emotions seeking protection from Allah all the while.
but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Mosques are not the places where you have family relations; so here the mosques are your houses. Allah regards your houses to be the mosques because you are in constant remembrance of Allah's Names and no other names are entertained. At this juncture 2 114 shall be remembered "In places for the worship of Allah, Allah's name should be celebrated." Now the final part of the ayat Those are Limits by Allah Approach them not. Approach them not stands here solely on this ground; but you can eat and drink; thus it is not fasting here.
The end of the ayat Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men that they may fear!
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Intercourse is entirely a different matter; it is not like eating and drinking; but removal of bad emotions like voiding of urine and evacuating the bowels to remove the impurities from our body. intercourse is elimination of the bad emotions and best protection for the mind whose purity is of at most important for the completion of fasting.
I don't quite get what you said. How can the act of intercourse be 'the elimination of bad emotions?'
???
Peace
Sarah
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I don't quite get what you said. How can the act of intercourse be 'the elimination of bad emotions?' ???
Peace
SarahPeace
Please read it like this but helps elimination of bad emotion. The lewdness starts building up if lawful intercourse that makes your heart pure is forcefully abstained. Thanks for pointing out the correction.
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Peace,
Fasting is not only abstaining from food and drink nor is stress applicable only to married males -- singles, females; all have urges/desires which fasting does help control.
As with most problems breaking it down to its simplest components usually works best. To give an example, a person has to make up one day due to being ill. Fasting is during the day, the night before it is permitted obviously since fasting has not started, and after sunset the fast is complete. Therefore that part of the verse would be unnecessary as such except the case was initially
A. Sex during day of the fasting = NO
B. Sex during night of the fasting = NOThus verse came to clarify flip the bit on B only, A allowed to continue which fits the context and logic.
2187 (It) became/is permitted/allowed to you (the) night of the fasting the obscenity/ indecency (intercourse), to your women (wives), they are (F) a cover/wives to you and you are a cover/husbands to them (F), God knew that you were betraying/being unfaithful (to) yourselves, so He forgave on you, and He forgave/pardoned on you, so now touch their (F) outer skin, and desire what God has written for you, and eat and drink until the thread the white appears from the thread the black from the dawn, then complete the fasting to the night and do not touch their outer skin (while) you are devoting in the mosques/places of worshipping God. Those are God's limits/orders, so do not approach/near it, like that God clarifies His verses/evidences to the people, maybe they fear and obey.
Of course all are free to plead ignorance say it was not explicitly stated even though it is right there in bold.
"permitted to you (the) night of the fasting" -- it's clear as night and day...
http//www.all-creatures.org/hope/gw/images/earth-day-night%20-crop_mast.jpg
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Here is the very beginning of the ayat! It is permitted to be with your wives on the nights of fasting. Where is the question for this at all when the fasting begins only from the dawn and ends at dusk? This part of the ayat has been necessitated from Allah because the mischief mongers like the mullah-hadith propagandists, swearing by the prophet, threateningly enforced the falsehood, in the name of the prophet, upon the people that they could not have the relationship with their wives. With the first part of the ayat the confusion created by the hadith miscreants of all times is put to end.
Any obsession makes things obscure. When this was being stated there were no mullh-hadith propagandists in the sense we understand it today. No one asked for clarification about having or abstaining intercourse in the night or day of Ramazan. People were however supressing sexual urge in the nights. Allah disclosed this private affair of some of the people, by telling them
Intercourse with wives in the night of Ramazan had been made permissible in aforetimes. In the law books, prescribing what is lawful and what is not lawful, the words are to be strictly construed as to the perception they convey. "It is permitted" are not there in the book. Correctly translate the opening words, the entire statement would be crystal clear.
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Any obsession makes things obscure.
Any obsession makes things obscure - This statement is totally unwarranted here for no one can say if I am obsessed or not; do not talk about that you do not know. Stick to the subject if you have substance.
No one asked for clarification about having or abstaining intercourse in the night or day of Ramazan.
Don't you know this Book has come to clarify every issue that you have been disputing about? Does not Allah know what is in your hearts? Does not Allah know your weaknesses and where His Signs must be elaborated? and where it shall have to be abbreviated like Alif Laam Meem etc.? Still do you maintain No one has asked for clarification about having or abstaining from sex in the night or day of fasting? And you say Allah was telling privately to some people who were deceiving themselves by being unfaithful to Allah, "Have intercourse from now?"
People were however supressing sexual urge in the nights. Allah disclosed this private affair of some of the people, by telling them
Why were they suppressing unless there were some mullah or self styled ulema gang that imposed and frightened the gullible public regarding the sex?
Intercourse with wives in the night of Ramazan had been made permissible in aforetimes.
So now it is denied that has been made permissible in the aforetimes! Good.
In the law books, prescribing what is lawful and what is not lawful
Which Law Book apart from the Only Book, The Quran?
The words are to be strictly construed as to the perception they convey
.Any ayat which endorses your above view? I will be greatly obliged if you can refer the chapter and the ayat. When you say perception it varies from individual to individual; then where is the question of strictly construing? If a word is to be strictly construed, then there cannot be another word from arabic dictionary to that we find in the original ayat.
"It is permitted" are not there in the book. Correctly translate the opening words, the entire statement would be crystal clear.
Who should endorse whose translation is correct? Allah, isn't it? So exchange your views; it is welcome if it has sense and substance.
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Peace,
2187 (It) became/is permitted/allowed to you (the) night of the fasting the obscenity/ indecency (intercourse), to your women (wives), they are (F) a cover/wives to you and you are a cover/husbands to them (F), God knew that you were betraying/being unfaithful (to) yourselves, so He forgave on you, and He ...
It would be well appreciated if you remove / .... / .... / .... / .... / .... / so many thesaurus and simply write your understanding with just one meaning.
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Any obsession makes things obscure ?
It is an established fact, need no further evidence/argument.
In the law books, prescribing what is lawful and what is not lawful, the words are to be strictly construed as to the perception they convey.
It is something which is universally accepted by the sane majority. No one challenges it.
Please translate
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It is an established fact, need no further evidence/argument.
It is something which is universally accepted by the sane majority. No one challenges it.
Please translate
Made lawful for you; there were no laws forbidding it before. So it is not " It is now made lawful for you " but already it is a permitted one, a lawful one. In between who created this confusion? Is it that the miscreants who grab the lay people in the garb of self-styled imams and religious leaders? When you say it is an established fact, you admit it is not the truth but only the fact. Truth shall confirm the fact or fact shall conform to the Truth. You go by the fact i.e., popular idea, the idolized ideology. It is in actuality a form of idol worshipping. You shall know the words like established fact is yet to be confirmed as the Truth. Before confirmation how can you follow something even if it is claimed to be established, by the majority of the people? You should correct them and convert them back to the actuality. How as a muslim who shall believe in having the light and guidance only from Allah, follow the universal majority? I am challenging the none, but not The One.
Peace.
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It would be well appreciated if you remove / .... / .... / .... / .... / .... / so many thesaurus and simply write your understanding with just one meaning.
Perhaps a picture and antonyms will convey the one meaning.
http//s5.tinypic.com/nej31x.jpg
Night is opposite of daytime.
Permissible is opposite of prohibited.
2187 Permissible to you night of the fasting the intercourse
?so now have sex
?and eat and drink until the dawnHumans have capacity to understand simple IF THEN TRUE/FALSE logic.
IF explicitly stated permissible night of the fasting THEN deduced as to daytime in context = FALSE!
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Perhaps a picture and antonyms will convey the one meaning.
Night is opposite of daytime.
Permissible is opposite of prohibited.Pictures and antonyms will convey The One's True meaning? I do not think it is so true. Perhaps you might reconsider your statement and reference.
2187 Permissible to you night of the fasting the intercourse
?so now have sex
?and eat and drink until the dawnYou have overlooked as unimportant or neglected as unnecessary the in between parts of the ayat in your Reading. Your neglected part of the ayat I have colored in bold blue. Read and answer my questions below
Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them.
Q 1 What do you think about the garments?
Q 2 When are the garments mostly essential - during the day when you will be out on the streets? Or when you are retiring to your bed during the noon time?
Q 3 In the noon time when you are in your privacy without garment, fulfilling your natural needs, Allah forbids the entry of the children and those that have come of age without permission because it is a time for the couple who are in need as to preserve their chastity, garmenting each other, preparing and purifying themselves to go out.
Q 4 But you forbid yourselves what was made lawful for you and thus have become a deceiving people. In this context you can remember Allah chiding the christian monks who forbade themselves from marrying when Allah had not made marriage a forbidden one in order to be monks, thus harming and wronging themselves. Now don't you think it is the same situation of a different kind when you forbid what is made lawful to you?
Q 5 Any way Allah has forgiven us until now because of His Mercy. So now from this day onwards we are again clarified the lawful donning of chastity, the best and the most beautiful of all the garments that a husband and wife can wear on each other. What is your take now?
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You have overlooked as unimportant or neglected as unnecessary the in between parts of the ayat in your Reading. Your neglected part of the ayat I have colored in bold blue. Read and answer my questions below
Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them.
Q 1 What do you think about the garments?
Q 2 When are the garments mostly essential - during the day when you will be out on the streets? Or when you are retiring to your bed during the noon time?
Not about physical garments or walking the streets naked at night because it's dark (they are always essential).
Cover (libasan ) descended on people were not clothes falling from the sky rather a state of mind to cover desires, not be like animals; what fasting is about.
726 and the cover (mindset) of righteousness is the best
Q 3 In the noon time when you are in your privacy without garment, fulfilling your natural needs, Allah forbids the entry of the children and those that have come of age without permission because it is a time for the couple who are in need as to preserve their chastity, garmenting each other, preparing and purifying themselves to go out.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=46153
Browse Word
Browse LocationPhysical clothes are different from metaphorical coverings.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=3444
Browse Word
Browse Root
Browse LocationWadaraba Allahu mathalanqaryatan kanat aminatan mutma-innatanya/teeha rizquha raghadan min kulli makaninfakafarat bi-anAAumi Allahi faathaqaha Allahulibasa aljooAAi waalkhawfi bima kanooyasnaAAoona
Q 4 But you forbid yourselves what was made lawful for you and thus have become a deceiving people. In this context you can remember Allah chiding the christian monks who forbade themselves from marrying when Allah had not made marriage a forbidden one in order to be monks, thus harming and wronging themselves. Now don't you think it is the same situation of a different kind when you forbid what is made lawful to you?
No, verse says permissible to you night of the fasting NOT permissible during the fasting.
Have another look at the picture, imagine a pie and which half is permissible...
http//s5.tinypic.com/nej31x.jpgThe word night in the verse is explicit and nullifies permissiveness during daytime.
Q 5 Any way Allah has forgiven us until now because of His Mercy. So now from this day onwards we are again clarified the lawful donning of chastity, the best and the most beautiful of all the garments that a husband and wife can wear on each other. What is your take now?
May take is you are making lawful what is clearly in Quran not lawful and for the bizarre reason of inability to control desire for about 12 hours from dawn to sunset; what people manage to control everyday when they go off to work.
Peace