Cutting the thief's hand- the debate raging on
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Bigmo Apologies for the misunderstanding, but from the gist of your posts, it seemed that you were promoting a hadith based framework. I tend to think that someone should not suffer an amputation for the conviction of a crime, because that way how are miscarriages of justice corrected? It does not fit in with the spirit of Islam to me. Edip also made a very good point about not jumping to the severest possible sentence in the scripture.
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Bigmo Apologies for the misunderstanding, but from the gist of your posts, it seemed that you were promoting a hadith based framework. I tend to think that someone should not suffer an amputation for the conviction of a crime, because that way how are miscarriages of justice corrected? It does not fit in with the spirit of Islam to me. Edip also made a very good point about not jumping to the severest possible sentence in the scripture.
I agree also but is it really a question of what I think or you think or what Edip believes? The question is providing the evidence from the Koran regarding an issue. We might have an understanding based on our overall outlook on the Koran. Because I accept the Old testament and in fact I am trying to read it these days I am not particularly concerned about harshness of punishment. If you think the Koran can be tough then go look at the Old Testament. Even the Gospel where Jesus says amputation is better than hell fire, of course it is and nobody doubts that no Earthly punishment whatever it is can equate with hellfire. But when you are dealing with public policy you need to have a legal foundation. The Koran in my mind offers guidelines and certain ideas and moral codes. It gives angles and emphasizes priorities, but i am not sure if a whole legal framework can be based on the Koran. The Koran can be an inspiration for something larger like a constitution, but beyond that I will have to see it before I believe it. Anyways I think this is probably due to the sectarian influences in many of us, we were raised with Islam and public policy mixed together and it may seem odd to us to see a much more limited role for the Koran is specifics. Remeber, I am talking about specifics and not the broad sets of values in a community for that the Koran lays out many such values. But as far as legal specifics that can be used lets say in a judicial system, then I see this as a problem.
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Peace "bigmo",
But maybe the Arabs did physically cut the hands of thiefs and maybe this was the sort of penal system that existed in Arabia before the Koran came down. I know the Persians had a presence there before Islam and I would not be surprised if the Persians enacted this form of punishment.
JK- What is more significant? What the Arabs MAY have done or what the Quran lays emphasis on based on the aformentioned facts? GOD Bless!
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Peace "bigmo",
JK- What is more significant? What the Arabs MAY have done or what the Quran lays emphasis on based on the aformentioned facts? GOD Bless!
How can you understand the Koran unless you have an undertsanding of its audience? The Koran did not come down Chinese on the people of Arabia. It could have, but there is a reason why it came down in Arabic. And it does have to do that the prophet spoke that language. I think thats a weak argument if you ask me. And I detect as sense of frustration in that statement. Why is it that those who emphasis the Koran as fully detailed and complete want a robotic society where the Koran provides all the answers small or big. Isn't that Sunnism? Well they have their hadiths to do that and many Muslim societies are robotic societies where even how to pray is provided for in detail and many aspects of their lives are dictated to the point where they grow beards and shorten their robes and carry miswaks. Is that what we really want? Where women and men have all aspects of their lives and livelihood dictated by clerics who have knowledge of those hadiths that interferes in all aspects of human lives including their sex lives. Then we cry about Muslim societies being decadent and non innovative and blinded in their traditions and their worshiping of the past. Is that what we really looking for? A Koranic alternative where the Koran creates for us all the solutions and we just have to apply them and wait for God's blessings. Is the Koran going to be able to do that? I don't see that happening or at least i have not seen it happening. So lets and wait and see.
Let me ask you this, is this how any of our lives operate? Do we have someone telling us how to go about our lives and how to function daily? Do we have anyone making decisions for us and providing for us our solutions? Is this why we came here to Earth? Do we not go through trials and tribulations and go through the pain and dissappointments of life? Do we not sometimes get confused and feel like our lives are meaningless and that nobody cares? Then why is it that we expect something different when it comes to public policy and public rituals?
I agree with Wakas in one thing that by relying on voting and consensus it does provide for a better society and may bring about unity.
But many Koranist are still going to invoke the statement "Why rely on votes and majority decisions when the Koran should be the only arbitrator!" Sounds Khawariji don't it laugh
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Bigmo,
Summary of your argument so far
You provide no evidence from Al Quran for your view.
You provide no reasoned/logical argument from Al Quran for your view.
You state subjective opinion like "I dont think there is a choice", "its hard for me to see if anything can be done regarding a legal framework with reference to the Koran", "they have equal weight" etc. ALL unevidenced subjective opinion.
You evade answering most of my questions.
Your statements/reasoning are contradictory and contains logical fallacies. The most prominent is the one central to your argument, which I already highlighted, but here it is again
It can't be done without a detailed understanding of Muhammad's biography or at least a detailed understanding of any other prophet.
The Koran dooes not provide that. Its that simple.
Let me walk you through your logical fallacy... (circular reasoning, begging the question)
You make an unevidenced baseless conclusion marked in RED, then use this "conclusion" as fact to prove your main argument marked in BLUE. Put more simply
You need XYZ (see red) to do ABC (legal framework etc) -------------- unevidenced/subjective/baseless
Quran does not have XYZ
Therefore, Quran is not for ABC or cant do ABC.Wakas's problem is he thinks when I talk about Koranist I am talking about him only.
If a person evades answering my questions and keeps referring back to an unevidenced/subjective/baseless point, then I will attempt to eliminate that point so we can get back on track.
You know how you can tell when someone's argument is weak? They prefer to concentrate on peripheral subjective points.
Sorry, but that's not how I like to discuss.
If you want to have an evidence based discussion, let me know, otherwise feel free to do your own thing.
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Peace "bigmo"
How can you understand the Koran unless you have an undertsanding of its audience?
JK- Simple. 1) Use of classcial arabic dictionaries 2) proper analysis of immediate conext and 3) cross referencing with other parts of the Quran that use the same or similar terms. This is how it's supposed to work mainly with the Quran. Other than that if archaelogical evidence pops up supporting an aforementioned Quranic statement, the better.
The Koran did not come down Chinese on the people of Arabia. It could have, but there is a reason why it came down in Arabic. And it does have to do that the prophet spoke that language.
JK- No it can be because Arabic is a sophisticated language rich in grammar and expression. That could be the main reason.
I think thats a weak argument if you ask me. And I detect as sense of frustration in that statement. Why is it that those who emphasis the Koran as fully detailed and complete want a robotic society where the Koran provides all the answers small or big. Isn't that Sunnism?
JK- NOWHERE are we claiming that the Quran provides all the answers. Where did you get that from? BUT every law we make should NOT CONTRADICT THE QURAN. That is important. Else wer free o make any law we want. GOD Bless!
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Peace "bigmo"
JK- Simple. 1) Use of classcial arabic dictionaries 2) proper analysis of immediate conext and 3) cross referencing with other parts of the Quran that use the same or similar terms. This is how it's supposed to work mainly with the Quran. Other than that if archaelogical evidence pops up supporting an aforementioned Quranic statement, the better.
JK- No it can be because Arabic is a sophisticated language rich in grammar and expression. That could be the main reason.
JK- NOWHERE are we claiming that the Quran provides all the answers. Where did you get that from? BUT every law we make should NOT CONTRADICT THE QURAN. That is important. Else wer free o make any law we want. GOD Bless!
I agree that whatver we do we should not contradict the Koran. Yes, this can be done from the Koran because t does provide a guidance where the highest ceiling and lowest ceiling is presented. But what Wakas is doing, is he thinks something can be done even if the evidence has shown its not possible. HE may have a concept in his mind so as far as HE is concerned it can be done, but what he fails to see is that many others have a different opinion with his and THEY also believe it can be done. You can take a broad range like Edip has done, but what Edip is doing is he is presenting the different view point that can be deduced from the Koran if you follow the text concerning a subject. However i doubt whether a legal framework can be deduced using a variety of opinion, its seems more like a constitutional thing rather than a judicial system.
Anyways I myself don't really know the right answers regarding this and many other subject, but it always seems to be only when public issues are being discussed do i feel unable to find an answer like the standard rituals and a standard legal framework. Other than that I usually find the Koran pretty much clear about a subject and most of the debates here never seems to end whenever we are discussing these two issues.
If you look at Sunni Islam they basically have built themselves along public policies either regarding religious rituals or a judicial framework. The rituals could have always been there, i don't believe in this Tawattur from Ishmael thing but it could have been from a much later period like Muhammad. Its hard to see it going back thousands of years like some believe all the way back to Abraham and Ishmael. Abraham must have lived more than a thousand years before Muhammad and even more. But its not something i can prove in the least. As far as the legal framework the Sunnis built they do contradict the Koran is many areas, apostasy being just one. There are of course many others.
But I am very much interested with what Subhi Mansour has to say about it since he seems very politically active. I will only believe it when i see it and anyways all the discussion have already have taken place and I can't see what else he can provide. Its either going to be very vague and full of nice slogans like political parties in the Arab world generally behave or its going to be a book that outlines a range of opinions regarding a subject like Edip did concerning how the Koranic text talks about it. I doubt very much he will present his own views too strongly because then he will have to defend them. We will see.
But this range of opinions we find in the Koran and the different interpretations we find must have a meaning. there must be a reason for this, a wisdom behind it. Thats what i am trying to discuss that the reason the koran is not speacific about public policy and allows for a different interpretation is because, in my belief, the Koran was never interested in creating one. It took it on an ad-hoc basis due to Muhammad's circusmstances.
Now Wakas told me to provide verses from the Koran to support my view. So I will.
The Koran says
Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 47)
Now we know the Gospel has very little, if any, legal rulings for a community revealed in it, yet the Koran expects the Christians to follow its commands.
The Koran then says
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; Surah 5 Verse 48
Here the Koran says each community was given its own revelation to live by its law, yet the Gospel has very little of that from the perspective of some Earthly judicial framework. The Koran still sees the Gospel as a law and its enough as a guidance in its own right. So how the Koran understand law is very different than how we humans understand it. But I know many people here do not see these scriptures as a guidance so I am not sure whats the point Wakas wants. I already told him we will differ in these verses and their meanings.
Its important here to note "to each among you", because there are other verses that says we should follow all the revelations, which is what I do anyways. Yet I still see each scripture as sufficient in its own right also since they are saying the same thing.
And of course my favorite
?It is not righteousness if you turn your faces towards the east or west; but it is righteousness to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend your wealth, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which you have made; and to be firm and patient, in suffering and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing? (Al-Baqara, 177)
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- Use of classcial arabic dictionaries 2) proper analysis of immediate conext and 3) cross referencing with other parts of the Quran that use the same or similar terms. This is how it's supposed to work mainly with the Quran. Other than that if archaelogical evidence pops up supporting an aforementioned Quranic statement, the better.
Thanks.
Yes, you have put it in a nut shell.
After having studied the quran for myself for a number of years. I highly recommend this method.
God Bless.
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Thanks.
Yes, you have put it in a nut shell.
After having studied the quran for myself for a number of years. I highly recommend this method.
God Bless.
Salaam Brother Simple
JK said "
- Use of classcial arabic dictionaries 2) proper analysis of immediate conext and 3) cross referencing with other parts of the Quran that use the same or similar terms. This is how it's supposed to work mainly with the Quran. Other than that if archaelogical evidence pops up supporting an aforementioned Quranic statement, the better.
You said
Yes, you have put it in a nut shell.
After having studied the quran for myself for a number of years. I highly recommend this method.
I agree with you in principle. But unfortunately their attitude towards Quran is absolutely opposite.
Take the example of the verse under discussion.No doubt word "Qata3a " has been used in literal and metaphorical meanings
No doubt word "Yad" has been used in literal and metaphorical meaning.
But the Phrase "Qa3tul Yad" has never been used in metaphorical meaning in whole arabic literature including standard classical arabic dictionaries.It is exactly like this if someone says
-Allah has given "ilm" to prophet Muhammad PBUH
-Allah has told "Ghaib" to Prophet Muhammad PBUhSo Prophet Muhammad PBUH has become "Alimul Ghaib" (maazallah).
I need just a single example in any Classical arabic dictionary or Arabic literature that "qat3ul Yad " is being used in a metaphorical sense. You will see certain other phrases like "qat3ul lisan " qat3ul Nahr" being used in metaphorical sense but not qat3ul yad.
Unless the linguists use that word or phrase in metaphorical sense you can put your ideas in the mouth of the language.
You cannot translate a book as a tiger. You cannot translate a ship as an owl. -
But what Wakas is doing, is he thinks something can be done even if the evidence has shown its not possible.
Can you clarify what you mean here?
HE may have a concept in his mind so as far as HE is concerned it can be done, but what he fails to see is that many others have a different opinion with his and THEY also believe it can be done.
How likely is it you think I am unaware of people having different opinions?
You can take a broad range like Edip has done, but what Edip is doing is he is presenting the different view point that can be deduced from the Koran if you follow the text concerning a subject. However i doubt whether a legal framework can be deduced using a variety of opinion, its seems more like a constitutional thing rather than a judicial system.
I will assume you are referring to cutting hands(s) for theft, even though I did present the exact same options with the link I gave. In any case, here is an interesting point for you to ponder the practical implementation.
Anyways I myself don't really know the right answers regarding this and many other subject, but it always seems to be only when public issues are being discussed do i feel unable to find an answer like the standard rituals and a standard legal framework.
"i myself dont really know", "i feel unable to find an answer"? But you already concluded AQ does not have XYZ thus cannot do ABC. So do you normally conclude something when you dont really know or are unable to find an answer?
I will only believe it when i see it and anyways all the discussion have already have taken place and I can't see what else he can provide.
Ahh, so if Subhi Mansour cant bring anything else to the table, then you have proven your point?
But this range of opinions we find in the Koran and the different interpretations we find must have a meaning. there must be a reason for this, a wisdom behind it.
I would think if AQ is the Word of God, God is pretty smart, hence it's content is like it is for a reason.
Thats what i am trying to discuss that the reason the koran is not speacific about public policy and allows for a different interpretation is because, in my belief, the Koran was never interested in creating one. It took it on an ad-hoc basis due to Muhammad's circusmstances.
So it was relevant for Muhammad's time but not now?
Re your quoting of verses
I'm impressed you know what the "gospel" is that AQ refers to. Tell me, how did you determine that?
All these complex judicial systems you see in the world, did they stem from simple guidelines or did they stem from complex/detailed guidelines?
If I say judge by ABC, does that mean ABC must contain all scenarios in which judging takes place, otherwise I will be at a loss for scenarios not mentioned in it?
Can you prove AQ is saying do not consider AQ in judgement to people of previous revelations?
If a community of people are stranded on an island and they form laws/rules without a scripture, will this automatically be unquranic/unislamic?
Is your quoting of these verses and making a case for defining what AQ means by law consistent with other verses? -
Salamun alaykum
Is it wrong for me to presume that the main thrust and emphasis of The Qur'an when it comes to legal matters is Justice ? Most if not all of us here are familiar with the Qur'an verse 318 . So if you think that cutting off the hands of thieves is just in your heart of hearts ( using all your faculties ) then , may The Lord have mercy on all of us . Just because we are told to judge in accordance with Scriptural Laws as per 544-50 , does it mean that we have to implement the literal meanings of these laws however inhumane they are ?
We know that all legal systems in the world stem from one basic law i.e. The Contitution of each and every country and the legislations en-acted must be in accord with the spirit if not the letter of the constitution . So what is inadequate about the Qur'an in setting up legal frame work and justice systems ? As long as the law enacted comply with the spirit and letter of The Qur'an ( based on Justice , Fairness and Compassion ) there should not be any resistance from the people where this supposed legal system is applied .
My own understanding and observation of hands and arms of thieves being cut off was in Saudi Arabia some years ago , then the thief's hand will only be cut off if and when the value of the stolen item was more than 5000 Saudi Rial and increases in severity such as up to the elbow and arm below the shoulder if the value of the stolen goods reach a certain threshold . The carrying out of these punishments were done every Friday and people who wish to go and watch can do so . You can ask any Saudis living in Mecca about this as I was only there for two months and spoken to a few hundred local residents about this matter . Actually , I met a couple of guess workers who were just being released from police custody with their finger nails pulled out for a crime of reading a People's magazine with pictures of women in bikinis and other female pictures considered pornographic by the police in Mecca . So , I hope "The Legal Framework" work out from The Qur'an is thoroughly examined by expert Jurists and ethicists before implementing it .
Peace
almarh0m
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Salamun alaykum
Is it wrong for me to presume that the main thrust and emphasis of The Qur'an when it comes to legal matters is Justice ? Most if not all of us here are familiar with the Qur'an verse 318 . So if you think that cutting off the hands of thieves is just in your heart of hearts ( using all your faculties ) then , may The Lord have mercy on all of us . Just because we are told to judge in accordance with Scriptural Laws as per 544-50 , does it mean that we have to implement the literal meanings of these laws however inhumane they are ?
We know that all legal systems in the world stem from one basic law i.e. The Contitution of each and every country and the legislations en-acted must be in accord with the spirit if not the letter of the constitution . So what is inadequate about the Qur'an in setting up legal frame work and justice systems ? As long as the law enacted comply with the spirit and letter of The Qur'an ( based on Justice , Fairness and Compassion ) there should not be any resistance from the people where this supposed legal system is applied .
My own understanding and observation of hands and arms of thieves being cut off was in Saudi Arabia some years ago , then the thief's hand will only be cut off if and when the value of the stolen item was more than 5000 Saudi Rial and increases in severity such as up to the elbow and arm below the shoulder if the value of the stolen goods reach a certain threshold . The carrying out of these punishments were done every Friday and people who wish to go and watch can do so . You can ask any Saudis living in Mecca about this as I was only there for two months and spoken to a few hundred local residents about this matter . Actually , I met a couple of guess workers who were just being released from police custody with their finger nails pulled out for a crime of reading a People's magazine with pictures of women in bikinis and other female pictures considered pornographic by the police in Mecca . So , I hope "The Legal Framework" work out from The Qur'an is thoroughly examined by expert Jurists and ethicists before implementing it .
Peace
almarh0m
Salaam Brother
Thanks for this information. I am not sure if these punishment are the reason that the crime rate is very low in Saudi Arabia. It may be some other reason.British
Total crimes 6,523,706
http//www.nationmaster.com/country/uk-united-kingdom/cri-crimeMaxico
Total crimes 1,516,029
http//www.nationmaster.com/country/mx-mexico/cri-crimeSaudi Arabia
Total crimes 84,599
http//www.nationmaster.com/country/sa-saudi-arabia/cri-crimeRegards
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peace,
My own understanding and observation of hands and arms of thieves being cut off was in Saudi Arabia some years ago , then the thief's hand will only be cut off if and when the value of the stolen item was more than 5000 Saudi Rial and increases in severity such as up to the elbow and arm below the shoulder if the value of the stolen goods reach a certain threshold .
Thanks for this information.
As an aside, quite often when I study a certain topic or review content, I often see or get an idea of how the traditional position came about. For example, with the hand cutting, taking into account the theme of equivalence in punishment, that is likely the reason the Saudis (or whatever they were basing this on) set a minimum of 5000 Rial. That is not my view however, but I can see where this reasoning might stem from.
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5000 Riyals can be stolen only from the king and king's men; and from the princes and the princes' men; and from the shaiks. So it is crime! But if from a poor who could earn only 10 or 20 riyals per day for their day to day living is stolen by a thief, it is no crime, even if it meant costing the life of him and his family. Why is there so much difficulty to consider a crime as a crime whether it is a boot from the poor; or a booty from the rich?
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Salaam Brother Simple
JK said "
You saidI agree with you in principle. But unfortunately their attitude towards Quran is absolutely opposite.
Take the example of the verse under discussion.No doubt word "Qata3a " has been used in literal and metaphorical meanings
No doubt word "Yad" has been used in literal and metaphorical meaning.
But the Phrase "Qa3tul Yad" has never been used in metaphorical meaning in whole arabic literature including standard classical arabic dictionaries.It is exactly like this if someone says
-Allah has given "ilm" to prophet Muhammad PBUH
-Allah has told "Ghaib" to Prophet Muhammad PBUhSo Prophet Muhammad PBUH has become "Alimul Ghaib" (maazallah).
I need just a single example in any Classical arabic dictionary or Arabic literature that "qat3ul Yad " is being used in a metaphorical sense. You will see certain other phrases like "qat3ul lisan " qat3ul Nahr" being used in metaphorical sense but not qat3ul yad.
Unless the linguists use that word or phrase in metaphorical sense you can put your ideas in the mouth of the language.
You cannot translate a book as a tiger. You cannot translate a ship as an owl.I wonder if the word means hands any where in the quran.
So did the ladies cut thier hands? not a chance.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8731.0
It either means power/ strength or it is a metaphorical expression- an idiom.
Does God have hands bro? you think so ...... I think they are mentioned somewhere in the quran arn't they?
In other languages you have idioms like "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"
"The broken man", In urdu you say "he cut his own hands off", or "He broke his legs"
"cut off your nose to spite your face" e.t.c
So does God Allmighty want us to cut people's thingies off wow
peace
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Salamun alaykum
The sad thing about "Cutting the thief's hand" is that, this seemingly cruel law / punishment for the thieves do not act as deterrence for other future offenders as we can see these punishments are being carried out on a weekly basis , although largely unreported by the media . Most of the offenders appear to be migrants from other muslim countries and a lot of them were/are illegal people who arrived on visa for Umrah then overstayed . Unfortunately for these people being illegal migrants , finding regular employments are extremely difficult and even if they managed to find one , he or she is likely to be exploited or abused by their master . So their plight is exponential and the only easy way out is to steal with all its consequences .
My personal opinion on this cruel punishment is that it is not necessary and it is not effective as a solution to a socio-legal problems . All these cutting of limbs do is create permanent beggars who carry stigmas for the rest of their lives as they would be unwilling to go back to their country of origins voluntarily . These amputees ex thieves beg during the Hajj and Ramadhan Umrah seasons and save their money to keep them going till the next hajj and ramadhan . So what this law does is solve one problem by creating other more serious ones . Should you go for a visit during Hajj season you would be able to see them and talk to them around Mina , Arafah and Musdalifah . I have never seen so many amputees and grotesquely deformed people until I went to Mecca as an individual hajj ( un-attached to any Jama'ah ) to prove that what I learn from The Qur'an about Hajj is correct .
Peace
almarh0m
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Salamun alaykum
The sad thing about "Cutting the thief's hand" is that, this seemingly cruel law / punishment for the thieves do not act as deterrence for other future offenders ....
Nor does it affect thieves embezzling millions and trillions of riyals of the people's monies
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I wonder if the word means hands any where in the quran.
So did the ladies cut thier hands? not a chance.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8731.0
It either means power/ strength or it is a metaphorical expression- an idiom.
Does God have hands bro? you think so ...... I think they are mentioned somewhere in the quran arn't they?
In other languages you have idioms like "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"
"The broken man", In urdu you say "he cut his own hands off", or "He broke his legs"
"cut off your nose to spite your face" e.t.c
So does God Allmighty want us to cut people's thingies off wow
peace
Dear Simple
Every language has its own dimensions. Rules and principles of one language cannot be applied necessarily on other languages. ARabic language is such a language with the same alphabets ,if you change the voweling ,the entire meaning is changed which is not present in Urdu or English.
I still stand
Any evidence from classical Arabic literature or Classical Arabic dicitionary using "qat3ul Yad " in the metaphorical sense.
If no then all other arguements are just wastage of time.
Regards -
Dear Simple
Every language has its own dimensions. Rules and principles of one language cannot be applied necessarily on other languages. ARabic language is such a language with the same alphabets ,if you change the voweling ,the entire meaning is changed which is not present in Urdu or English.
I still stand
Any evidence from classical Arabic literature or Classical Arabic dicitionary using "qat3ul Yad " in the metaphorical sense.
If no then all other arguements are just wastage of time.
RegardsBro, we can't take a Classical Arabic dicitionary for a god neither as not everything may be there!
Look at this and let us use a little reasoning;
070.030
YUSUFALI Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed,The translation is faulty, but "whom their right hands posses" are they truly in the palm of your hand or something else?
067.001
YUSUFALI Blessed be He in Whose hands is Dominion; and He over all things hath Power;-Is the dominion in the physical hands of something? or does it merely mean the one who has the ultimate power of the dominion?
peace
God Bless.
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Bro, we can't take a Classical Arabic dicitionary for a god neither as not everything may be there!
Look at this and let us use a little reasoning;
070.030
YUSUFALI Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed,The translation is faulty, but "whom their right hands posses" are they truly in the palm of your hand or something else?
067.001
YUSUFALI Blessed be He in Whose hands is Dominion; and He over all things hath Power;-Is the dominion in the physical hands of something? or does it merely mean the one who has the ultimate power of the dominion?
peace
God Bless.
Brother Salaam
As I told you in my first post.No doubt word "Qata3a " has been used in literal and metaphorical meanings
No doubt word "Yad" has been used in literal and metaphorical meaning.
But the Phrase "Qa3tul Yad" has never been used in metaphorical meaning in whole arabic literature including standard classical arabic dictionaries.Neither Arabic dictionaries nor "Yousaf Ali " is God (Agreed).
Regards
