Is Rukooh and Sajood part of Salaat ?
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Preace Wakas,
I am assuming you are relying on Arabic dictionary to extract meaning of Quranic words to interpret Quranic verses. This is a flawed approach because it will not work for all cases. Here is why
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The God protected the Quran because human cannot be trusted with this responsibility
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On the contrary, you trust human with the preservation of the correct meaning of Arabic words prevalent at the time of revelation. Isn?t this the same as trusting the hadith? Who validated the dictionary? Where are the criteria?
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Now, you are seeing Quran through the eyes of a flawed dictionary
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And don?t forget the satan. He knows you will be doing this, therefore, he will corrupt it to lead people away from God?s path
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Therefore, this approach leads to an erroneous understanding of the Quran
Better approach
- The God created us with the ability to understand His creation and the Quran
- Therefore, use our ability and seek the God?s help
- That it
Since the God has bestowed some believer with more wisdom than other, we can accept their interpretation of Quran only when it agrees with our built-in instinct.
Since salat is mandatory on all humankind, it must be done by all, even if one is sick or bedridden.
When one is bedridden, his sjd is fall on the chin.
When one is physically fit his sjd is fall on his head/face or the chin.
When one is incapable of doing the above two, mental sjd is sufficient. Of course in the other two cases it is the mental sjd that leads to the physical act.
Quran contains straightforward and multiple-meaning verses. It is the multiple-meaning words that make a verse multiple-meaning. There is nothing wrong with multiple-meaning verses, believers can use them, only the hypocrite will extract unquranic meaning to distract good people away from the God.
These are my understanding.
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peace guest,
Your post disappoints me. If you had carefully read my first sentence you would have seen my methodology is not based on a dictionary. In fact, how you came to this conclusion is anyone's guess.
Also, some of the info in your post has no Quranic basis, and are simply unevidenced statements. That is not how I prefer to discuss and learn. The forum rules also do not take kindly to such posts, but each to their own. Peace.
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Salam,
- The God protected the Quran because human cannot be trusted with this responsibility
Since the God has bestowed some believer with more wisdom than other, we can accept their interpretation of Quran only when it agrees with our built-in instinct.
Who validated their interpretation? Where are the criteria?
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Peace Wakas,
The answer is in my previous post. Hear it is again.
"......when it agrees with our built-in instinct."
Peace Brother
In one of you post above you saidQuran contains straightforward and multiple-meaning verses. It is the multiple-meaning words that make a verse multiple-meaning. There is nothing wrong with multiple-meaning verses, believers can use them, only the hypocrite will extract unquranic meaning to distract good people away from the God.
These are my understanding.
Can you please give a few examples of "THESE MULTIPLE MEANINGS OF ANY VERSE"?
Regards -
In one of you post above you said Can you please give a few examples of "THESE MULTIPLE MEANINGS OF ANY VERSE"?
Regards37, 754, 1778 and others.
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Peace Wakas,
?In fact, how you came to this conclusion is anyone's guess.?
My conclusion is based on the following
Your post on this thread ??..and if you found a Classical Arabic meaning??
And your post on other thread
77 General Issues / Questions / General Issues / Questions / Re The Message - Second Edition
on May 31, 2009, 032935 PM
peace progressive1993,How many mistakes can you make in one post?
You quoted the wrong verse, it is not 6115, it is 2173.
The Arabic in question in 6115 is "rahim" NOT "rahman". There is a difference.
Again, you make the same mistake in your 9128-129, it is "raheem" not "rahman". There is a difference.
Then you make a mistake when you say "this is from Lane" and what you quote is from Project Root List which uses multiple Classical Arabic dictionaries as blatantly stated on its homepage, so unless you have went through Lane yourself and seen that is exactly and only what it says, then you are mistaken. Of course, PRL uses a lot of Lane's Lexicon, but that does not mean they are equivalent.
Also, if you are using Project Root List, please use the cross-reference! It clearly separates out the occurrences of "rahim" and "rahman" for everyone to see. If you had done so, it would have prevented your mistakes.
And this
88 General Issues / Questions / Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re Kill Your Egos?
on May 29, 2009, 051835 PM
In addition to application of reasoning/logic, one can also cross-reference"...faoqtuloo anfusakum..."
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Qaf-Ta-Lam
Nun-Fa-Siin -
Dear Progress
1This question was not directed to you.
2If you have come in then please post the actual arabic verses (because it is Quran) + their possible meanings.
Regardsdoesnt matter if you have directed it towards me. The forum is for everyone and you always join in the debated that I have with others. So there should be no problem.
Just see how people disagree with the translations/interpretations about the verses which I have provided you with. Go search the web and you will find out. Bedies, I have already made clear in one of the past discussion we had that language is irrelevant. The sincere and knowledgeable will understand God's word no matter which language it is in.
Since you are never content when I post a verse in english (which is totally unjustified, btw) i didnt post one this time. I left it for you to look up in the original arabic. If you want I can post different translations of the verses, which alone will prove that they have multiple-meaings.
Peace
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doesnt matter if you have directed it towards me. The forum is for everyone and you always join in the debated that I have with others. So there should be no problem.
Just see how people disagree with the translations/interpretations about the verses which I have provided you with. Go search the web and you will find out. Bedies, I have already made clear in one of the past discussion we had that language is irrelevant. The sincere and knowledgeable will understand God's word no matter which language it is in.
Since you are never content when I post a verse in english (which is totally unjustified, btw) i didnt post one this time. I left it for you to look up in the original arabic. If you want I can post different translations of the verses, which alone will prove that they have multiple-meaings.
PeacePeace Brother
I believe only in Quran not in Translations which are used to satisfy one's own agenda.
Regards -
peace guest,
Once again, you have shown your deductive/reasoning skills to be very poor. If you had bothered to read the homepage of Project Root List, or even had a read of any root entry, you will see it utilises Quranic usage heavily (i.e. full cross-reference), in fact, it is integral to it. Thus, to imply my methodology is based on a dictionary is laughable. Let me make it clear for you and everyone else if a dictionary says word XYZ means ABC but this meaning does not fit with The Quran's usage and/or logic, I will reject the dictionary meaning; The Quran and the methodology it promotes is the primary criterion.
It is not a surprise to me however that there may be a correlation between someone having faulty deductive/reasoning skills and this same person holding an unevidenced view such as sjd means physical prostration.
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Peace Brother
I believe only in Quran not in Translations which are used to satisfy one's own agenda.
RegardsFine. Do what you like. Check Quran translations. I suggest www.quranix.net
Check the verses that I have given you. There are footnotes there explaining what the translators think of the verses. Also compare those translations with Yusuf Ali's or so. Then you will see if it's multiple-meaning or not. Furthermore, you can see for yurself when you try to understand/translate a verse.Peace
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Fine. Do what you like. Check Quran translations. I suggest www.quranix.net
Check the verses that I have given you. There are footnotes there explaining what the translators think of the verses. Also compare those translations with Yusuf Ali's or so. Then you will see if it's multiple-meaning or not. Furthermore, you can see for yurself when you try to understand/translate a verse.Peace
Peace
I only believe in Quran not their translations.Only Quran is divine not traslations.
Regards -
Peace
I only believe in Quran not their translations.Only Quran is divine not traslations.
RegardsThen dont ask about multiple-meaning verses, because they become apparent in translations. Furthrmore, just check the verses that I have given you.
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Then dont ask about multiple-meaning verses, because they become apparent in translations. Furthrmore, just check the verses that I have given you.
Peace
Whichever verse you want to post,post it here in arabic and then traslate it.
Otherwise bye.
Regards -
Peace
Whichever verse you want to post,post it here in arabic and then traslate it.
Otherwise bye.
Regardsrotfl
you know that I dont speak arabic. Anyways, the Quran says that it has multiple-meaning verses in 37. Check it for yourself.
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Peace Wakas,
You advocated this link http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
which says this
Aim To list ALL the roots used in Al Quran, including possible meanings (from SEVERAL Classical Arabic dictionaries/lexicons), give ALL examples of usage (allowing cross-reference) and detailed grammar information for EVERY word used. Its goal is to be the most comprehensive Quran study tool in the English language.
It is not as pure as you claim, therefore, it is reasonable to conclude what I have concluded.
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peace guest,
If a person read that paragraph and deduced my methodology is based on a dictionary, then I would consider this person to have either
poor deductive/reasoning skills
or
they cannot read properlySince your writing/posts seem to be intelligible/readable this would imply it is unlikely to be the latter.
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Peace Wakas,
You have accused me of not having good deductive reasoning capability without any justification. Now, allow me to give you a taste of your own medicine. Lets find how good is your reasoning power and judgment. I think the God wants to expose you for what you are.
- You admonished a person for using PRL
?Then you make a mistake when you say "this is from Lane" and what you quote is from Project Root List which uses multiple Classical Arabic dictionaries as blatantly stated on its homepage, so unless you have went through Lane yourself and seen that is exactly and only what it says, then you are mistaken. Of course, PRL uses a lot of Lane's Lexicon, but that does not mean they are equivalent.?
Then you advise other to use PRL
?In addition to application of reasoning/logic, one can also cross-reference
?...faoqtuloo anfusakum...?
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Qaf-Ta-Lam
Nun-Fa-Siin?Deductive Reasoning Flip-Flopper and/or loss of credibility
To err is human. In this case, one must admit their mistake to regain credibility.
- You prohibit physical prostration to the God for all mankind based on an incomplete post. This is what you said about the referenced post
?As a side note, your point about the hoopoe was touched upon in one of the best threads on sjd.?
The post did not show us how his sjd meaning works for all the sjd verses. He carefully chose selected verses to show his point of view. When one is making such an enormous claim it must be a complete work and vetted thoroughly. Yet you advocate this article. What a poor judgment.
The referenced post translates sjd=submit but you say there is more to it as evident from the quote below
??it can theoretically mean this in a few occurrences, just like it can theoretically mean "salute", "stand up" or any other Classical Arabic meaning?.?
Are you flip-flopping again? Where is your deductive skill?
- Finally, I would like you provide me with one and only one meaning of sjd. I plan to use it to disprove your sjd concept/theory via contradiction, God willing.
Also, please define what submit is i.e. what do you really mean by it, specific actions. This definition is from your favorite post sjd, where sjd=submit.
Thanks.
