al Masjid al Haram and al Masjid al Aqsa
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""Safa and Marwah are signs of Allah; so whoever makes a pilgrimage to the House or pays a visit, there is no blame on him if he goes round them.""
So God wants to highlight the going around stones as something like a pagan practice of worshiping and going around stone idols and tells the Hajj visitors its no blame even if they go around the stones as a ritual or unknowingly?
Of Course not.
And that leads us to the FACT that the traditional translation/meaning could be nothing else than False, thus resulting from pagan beliefs. )
Salam
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@quickduck Why double standards? If wakas can make a mistake so can somebody else.
What do you think "being volunteer" for khayr implies?
I might have caught one. Watch.
@amin So God wants to highlight the going around stones as something like a pagan practice
Where did you get that God wants to highlight anything as "something a pagan practice"?
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"Safa and Marwah are signs of Allah; so whoever makes a pilgrimage to the House or pays a visit, there is no blame on him if he goes round them.""
Just my question, based on the translation above. since in there.. "there is no blame on him if he goes round them."
Even we consider those "Safa and Marwah are mountains, can you explain if the above translation is right, what God means by the words highlighted? -
Jeez, again
@amin So God wants to highlight the going around stones as something like a pagan practice
Where did you get that God wants to highlight anything as "something like a pagan practice"?
The "modify" button is your friend, it avoids double-posting.
Why double standards? If wakas can make a mistake so can somebody else.
it is not resort of double standards, making mistakes is not the big deal, not to admit them IS .
raginggaijin stills believes in "Final Fantasy XIII-like" stories where Muhammed traveled from "Al-Masjid al-Haram" to "Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa" riding "the Buraq" (which is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place its hoof at a distance equal to the range of vision. ref al-Bukhari). This very "GOD of WAR-Like" Story is where the myth of five daily salat find its root (and only). And it is because of this same Legend that some believes that "al-masjid al haram" is in Mecca, and "al-masjid al aqsa" is in Jerusalem.
salam
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I avoid using 'modify' button. But I like to see it all the same.
Let us see which one of them admits to his mistake.
Did you hear raginggaijin say all that? This is serious. Solemn.
What about the "being volunteer" for khayr. What does it refer to? Any inputs on that?
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Let us see which one of them admits to his mistake.
Did you hear raginggaijin say all that? This is serious. Solemn.
I apologize to raginggaijin for mistaking, i've just verified and found that i mixed up what i read from another member's post. (
i admit he never said that literally but i would like him to tell us where did he came up with all these "proofs" from ?
What about the "being volunteer" for khayr. What does it refer to? Any inputs on that?
and what 2 small mountains and passing/going around them has to do with "being vounteer" for khayr ??
salam
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"2 small mountains and passing/going around them"? Ha ha....not that.
What do you propose "being volunteer" for khayr references? Is it related to AlSafa and AlMarwa, or something else?
it's clear from the verse that "being volunteer" for khayr is related to an act of "taTwwafa" by/with/around the "safa and marwa".
to resolve this issue, we should first agree with a clear meaning of the words between " "
salam
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I apologize to raginggaijin for mistaking, i've just verified and found that i mixed up what i read from another member's post. (
i admit he never said that literally but i would like him to tell us where did he came up with all these "proofs" from ?
and what 2 small mountains and passing/going around them has to do with "being vounteer" for khayr ??
salam
Show me where I stated we are to perform any ritual act performed by the followers of hadith today. Give proofs if you speak truthfully.
The first thing I did was humble myself in prayer and ask Allah to guide me; to increase me in knowledge.
"Supremely exalted is therefore Allah, the King, the Truth, and do not make haste with the Quran before its revelation is made complete to you and say O my Lord ! increase me in knowledge." Surah 20114
"And seek assistance through patience and prayer, and most surely it is a hard thing except for the humble ones," Surah 245
Have you done this?
I strive to be a man of understanding. Do good deeds. Spend out of what Allah provides me. Pray and recite the Quran daily. Perform the Vigil prayer. Do good deeds, pray for guidance, and study the Quran.
Men of understanding Surah 2121, 37, 3918, 2179, 2197, 2269, 313, 3190, 5100, 12111, 1319, 1452, 1676, 2054, 20128, 2935, 3022, 3528, 3829, 3843, 399, 4054, 5120, 5913, 6510, 895
"Those to whom We have given the Book study it as it should be studied they are the ones that believe therein those who reject faith therein, the loss is their own." Surah 2121
"Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding." Surah 3918
?And certainly We have made clear for men in this Quran every kind of description, but most men consent naught save denying.? Surah 1789
The proofs are from the Quran, and verified in previous Books, and the world around us. Allah tells us in the Quran to consider, to check out things for ourselves. Research.
?O you who believe, if an unrighteous man brings you news, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you did.? Surah 496
"Say Have you considered if the chastisement of Allah should overtake you suddenly or openly, will any be destroyed but the unjust people?" Surah 647
"Have you not considered how your Lord dealt with Ad" Surah 896
"Have you then considered the Lat and the Uzza, And Manat, the third, the last?" Surah 5319-20Have you considered al-Lat, al-Uzza, and al-Manat? Do you know who the Nabateans are and where Petra resides? Do you know Uzza is spoken of in the Bible; there is a garden dedicated to Uzza? Do you know all three are representations of dieties that began in Babel/Babylon that are recycled through time?
Have you looked into Ad, or Iram? Do you know there is proof if its existence found only in the past century that proves the Quran is revelation from our Creator?Allah is telling you to think about it, research it, see what is Truth and what is fabrication. We can see in many instances that the teachings of the Hadiths fall flat in face of the clear Truth given to us by Allah in the Quran, with signs in the world today. An example is Dhul-Qarnain, who many Islamic scholars say is Alexander the Great. But it is Darius I of Persia who created the Iron Wall, found in Derbent, Georgia. Find who the wall was built to keep out, and you have another piece of the puzzle to discover who Gog and Magog are, and why we near the End of Days.
You have to think and research using the Quran as your guide to the Truth. Cyrus the Persian is called Messiah in the Bible, and Darius is also spoken of in the teachings of the Tanakh. Both were Zoroastrians; another deen given by Allah and corrupted by the Magi of Babylon. Proof is in the Avesta.The Quran verifies the Truth in previous Books. Do you know the Bible speaks of the qiblah of the Children of Israel?
Qiblah of Solomon I Kings 822-44
What Temple did Solomon build?
Temple/Masjid Al-Aqsa/Jerusalem Surah 171,175-7,1760, 9107-109
What Temple was built, destroyed, rebuilt and destroyed?Think. Research.
I am not saying "I am right, believe what I say and follow me!" On the contrary. I am saying "This is what I believe based on my studies. Check it out for yourself."
Study the Quran diligently and be not dependent on my opinion.
You are more than welcome not to believe anything I say. Do not research it, do not double-check, ignore it. I am only responsible for myself just as you are only responsible for yourself. In the End, we will know who is rightly guided.
But do us all a favor Try to prove these theories wrong. Scientists are taught to defend a theory, even a wrong one, so they know how. If it is wrong, it will eventually be proven wrong. But if it is correct, it will stand up to close scrutiny and benefit all involved.
Give proofs if you speak truthfully. If a person is rightly guided by Allah, they will be able to prevail in argument.
Only by study, patience, prayer, and research do we make ourselves, and our faith, stronger.
I do not watch TV. I do not watch sports or play games. I spend time daily in study and research, so that I may be among those who enter the Garden with the salutation of 'Peace!'.The videos I post are created by me to show what I believe. Which is why I call them 'Proof'. I put them out there so people can scrutinize them.
Read the Information bar At the bottom I post video and music credits.That does not mean I make mistakes. Search my past posts on this forum and you will see the gradual growth of knowledge from the days of my early reversion from Christianity to the deen of Al-Islam. I have even removed or edited videos when I discover they contain a mistake. A perfect example is the name given to our Creator by the Jews and Christians YHWH. This is a pagan god of Canaan. Is it any wonder why the Jews are called polytheists then?
Alhamdulillah, it was my wife who showed me the Arabic was similar for YHWH and the Jews. Many things are clarified when we return to the original Arabic Quran for clarification.
YHWH
JewNow there are some that don't want the Truth to be shown. Allah is clear The Truth will prevail.
?The Truth has come and falsehood vanished. Surely falsehood is ever bound to vanish.? Surah 1781, 3447-50
Allah is sufficient for me. Surah 864
Allah tells me He will explain, and I believe Him; He does. Surah 7516-19As for your claim of the donkey ride to Al-Aqsa, Allah is clear It was a vision, and there was no donkey spoken of in the Quran. Surah 1760
That story, by the way, was taken from the Zoroastrians. Look to the Arta Viraf for proof.
Which explains to me how this was a trial for men; do they follow what Allah revealed or do they believe in a fancy story based on corrupted teachings of the Zoroastrian Magi?
Now you know where I get my proofs from. The question is What are you going to do.
May Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Peace.
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Why base soul upon? As AQ clearly implies whatever safa and marwa are, they are optional.
Apologies; what I mean is I base my beliefs on absolutes, not 'maybe' or 'could be'.
If I cannot find proofs of it, I leave it alone until I can.
?And follow not that of which thou has no knowledge. Surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, of all of these it will be asked.? Surah 1736
May Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Peace and blessings.
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@raginggaijin Non-muslims who are versed in the Bible know the story.
But can a non-Muslim (particularly Jew/Christian) ever accept Abraham in Mecca? Why do you think Crone-worship is so rampant amongst them? Why all the propganda?
This solar/star/planet worship began in Babel and continues to this day; only the names have changed. Start with the teachings of Sumeria, with El/Chronos, Asheroth/Venus, and YHWH/Baal/Jupiter as an example of the original Trinity God the Father, consort of the God, and their offspring. It is believed to begin with Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz, as this is found in the Bible and reinforced in the Sumerian teachings as shown above. We know in the Quran those who lived during the time of Abraham (pbuh) worshiped the stars and planets. Go through each faith of man and see how this continues even to this day.
The Mother is the moon Semiramis/Asheroth/Asherah/Ishtar, the Son is the star Tammuz/YHWH/Baal/Adonis. Focus is on this in the faith of man called Islam as the Mother and Son worship of the pagan of old Mother = Hagar, son = Ishmael (pbuh). 7 is the esoteric mystery school number for completion.
Look to the Catholic renditions of Mary, mother of Isa (pbuh). What is it she stands on? A crescent moon. The S(u)n of God has a disk behind him, representing the sun, as he takes the place of the Father. Same story from Sumeria to Zoroastrian to Judaism to Greek to Rome to today. Even the Christians say Isa (pbuh) will be given the Judgment by the Heavenly Father on the Day of Judgment.
There is so much more, if people research it.But there are some good eggs. A Christian once referred me to a non-Muslim website regarding its classical Arabic rendering of an Arabic word; when I showed him what the commentaries actually had to say he was amused at the length of deception some non-Muslims go to. So it is better to check out the classic Arabic rendering yourself.
The fact this sentiment is stated over and over again proves to me people do not read my comments and gloss over.
I confirm from the original Arabic Quran. As my wife speaks Arabic and Farsi, she has been of much assistance in our studies and my progress of learning Arabic. I have been met with this invalidating argument by followers of hadith, I have to read the original Arabic Quran. If a Scottish-American farm boy can learn Arabic, no one has any excuse not to know what the original Arabic Quran reveals.May Allah pour down patience upon the believers from Most High.
Regarding the words Safa and Marwa, this is what Tabatabai says in his AlMizan
as-Safa (hard smooth rock); al-Marwah (hard stone)
I might later post what Lane's Classical Arabic Lexicon has to say about 'safa' (Book I, p. 1703).
Thank you. You continue to provide proofs. Alhamdulillah!
May Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Peace and blessings.
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peace quickduck, all,
You are right in the correction you made, however I stated the same thing previously in this thread "At the very least, this means going between Safa and Marwah is optional according to AQ.". In the post you refer to, I just shortened my statement for brevity, although I would say I see no practical difference since nothing else is ever mentioned with regard to safa and marwah in AQ.
For my view of 2158 see here.
RA786, I just remembered the name of the idol, it is "dhu al shara", you can research it online. Here is a nice summary
http//www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/history/arabic.txt
