al Masjid al Haram and al Masjid al Aqsa
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I avoid using 'modify' button. But I like to see it all the same.
Let us see which one of them admits to his mistake.
Did you hear raginggaijin say all that? This is serious. Solemn.
What about the "being volunteer" for khayr. What does it refer to? Any inputs on that?
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Let us see which one of them admits to his mistake.
Did you hear raginggaijin say all that? This is serious. Solemn.
I apologize to raginggaijin for mistaking, i've just verified and found that i mixed up what i read from another member's post. (
i admit he never said that literally but i would like him to tell us where did he came up with all these "proofs" from ?
What about the "being volunteer" for khayr. What does it refer to? Any inputs on that?
and what 2 small mountains and passing/going around them has to do with "being vounteer" for khayr ??
salam
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"2 small mountains and passing/going around them"? Ha ha....not that.
What do you propose "being volunteer" for khayr references? Is it related to AlSafa and AlMarwa, or something else?
it's clear from the verse that "being volunteer" for khayr is related to an act of "taTwwafa" by/with/around the "safa and marwa".
to resolve this issue, we should first agree with a clear meaning of the words between " "
salam
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I apologize to raginggaijin for mistaking, i've just verified and found that i mixed up what i read from another member's post. (
i admit he never said that literally but i would like him to tell us where did he came up with all these "proofs" from ?
and what 2 small mountains and passing/going around them has to do with "being vounteer" for khayr ??
salam
Show me where I stated we are to perform any ritual act performed by the followers of hadith today. Give proofs if you speak truthfully.
The first thing I did was humble myself in prayer and ask Allah to guide me; to increase me in knowledge.
"Supremely exalted is therefore Allah, the King, the Truth, and do not make haste with the Quran before its revelation is made complete to you and say O my Lord ! increase me in knowledge." Surah 20114
"And seek assistance through patience and prayer, and most surely it is a hard thing except for the humble ones," Surah 245
Have you done this?
I strive to be a man of understanding. Do good deeds. Spend out of what Allah provides me. Pray and recite the Quran daily. Perform the Vigil prayer. Do good deeds, pray for guidance, and study the Quran.
Men of understanding Surah 2121, 37, 3918, 2179, 2197, 2269, 313, 3190, 5100, 12111, 1319, 1452, 1676, 2054, 20128, 2935, 3022, 3528, 3829, 3843, 399, 4054, 5120, 5913, 6510, 895
"Those to whom We have given the Book study it as it should be studied they are the ones that believe therein those who reject faith therein, the loss is their own." Surah 2121
"Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding." Surah 3918
?And certainly We have made clear for men in this Quran every kind of description, but most men consent naught save denying.? Surah 1789
The proofs are from the Quran, and verified in previous Books, and the world around us. Allah tells us in the Quran to consider, to check out things for ourselves. Research.
?O you who believe, if an unrighteous man brings you news, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you did.? Surah 496
"Say Have you considered if the chastisement of Allah should overtake you suddenly or openly, will any be destroyed but the unjust people?" Surah 647
"Have you not considered how your Lord dealt with Ad" Surah 896
"Have you then considered the Lat and the Uzza, And Manat, the third, the last?" Surah 5319-20Have you considered al-Lat, al-Uzza, and al-Manat? Do you know who the Nabateans are and where Petra resides? Do you know Uzza is spoken of in the Bible; there is a garden dedicated to Uzza? Do you know all three are representations of dieties that began in Babel/Babylon that are recycled through time?
Have you looked into Ad, or Iram? Do you know there is proof if its existence found only in the past century that proves the Quran is revelation from our Creator?Allah is telling you to think about it, research it, see what is Truth and what is fabrication. We can see in many instances that the teachings of the Hadiths fall flat in face of the clear Truth given to us by Allah in the Quran, with signs in the world today. An example is Dhul-Qarnain, who many Islamic scholars say is Alexander the Great. But it is Darius I of Persia who created the Iron Wall, found in Derbent, Georgia. Find who the wall was built to keep out, and you have another piece of the puzzle to discover who Gog and Magog are, and why we near the End of Days.
You have to think and research using the Quran as your guide to the Truth. Cyrus the Persian is called Messiah in the Bible, and Darius is also spoken of in the teachings of the Tanakh. Both were Zoroastrians; another deen given by Allah and corrupted by the Magi of Babylon. Proof is in the Avesta.The Quran verifies the Truth in previous Books. Do you know the Bible speaks of the qiblah of the Children of Israel?
Qiblah of Solomon I Kings 822-44
What Temple did Solomon build?
Temple/Masjid Al-Aqsa/Jerusalem Surah 171,175-7,1760, 9107-109
What Temple was built, destroyed, rebuilt and destroyed?Think. Research.
I am not saying "I am right, believe what I say and follow me!" On the contrary. I am saying "This is what I believe based on my studies. Check it out for yourself."
Study the Quran diligently and be not dependent on my opinion.
You are more than welcome not to believe anything I say. Do not research it, do not double-check, ignore it. I am only responsible for myself just as you are only responsible for yourself. In the End, we will know who is rightly guided.
But do us all a favor Try to prove these theories wrong. Scientists are taught to defend a theory, even a wrong one, so they know how. If it is wrong, it will eventually be proven wrong. But if it is correct, it will stand up to close scrutiny and benefit all involved.
Give proofs if you speak truthfully. If a person is rightly guided by Allah, they will be able to prevail in argument.
Only by study, patience, prayer, and research do we make ourselves, and our faith, stronger.
I do not watch TV. I do not watch sports or play games. I spend time daily in study and research, so that I may be among those who enter the Garden with the salutation of 'Peace!'.The videos I post are created by me to show what I believe. Which is why I call them 'Proof'. I put them out there so people can scrutinize them.
Read the Information bar At the bottom I post video and music credits.That does not mean I make mistakes. Search my past posts on this forum and you will see the gradual growth of knowledge from the days of my early reversion from Christianity to the deen of Al-Islam. I have even removed or edited videos when I discover they contain a mistake. A perfect example is the name given to our Creator by the Jews and Christians YHWH. This is a pagan god of Canaan. Is it any wonder why the Jews are called polytheists then?
Alhamdulillah, it was my wife who showed me the Arabic was similar for YHWH and the Jews. Many things are clarified when we return to the original Arabic Quran for clarification.
YHWH
JewNow there are some that don't want the Truth to be shown. Allah is clear The Truth will prevail.
?The Truth has come and falsehood vanished. Surely falsehood is ever bound to vanish.? Surah 1781, 3447-50
Allah is sufficient for me. Surah 864
Allah tells me He will explain, and I believe Him; He does. Surah 7516-19As for your claim of the donkey ride to Al-Aqsa, Allah is clear It was a vision, and there was no donkey spoken of in the Quran. Surah 1760
That story, by the way, was taken from the Zoroastrians. Look to the Arta Viraf for proof.
Which explains to me how this was a trial for men; do they follow what Allah revealed or do they believe in a fancy story based on corrupted teachings of the Zoroastrian Magi?
Now you know where I get my proofs from. The question is What are you going to do.
May Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Peace.
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Why base soul upon? As AQ clearly implies whatever safa and marwa are, they are optional.
Apologies; what I mean is I base my beliefs on absolutes, not 'maybe' or 'could be'.
If I cannot find proofs of it, I leave it alone until I can.
?And follow not that of which thou has no knowledge. Surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, of all of these it will be asked.? Surah 1736
May Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Peace and blessings.
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@raginggaijin Non-muslims who are versed in the Bible know the story.
But can a non-Muslim (particularly Jew/Christian) ever accept Abraham in Mecca? Why do you think Crone-worship is so rampant amongst them? Why all the propganda?
This solar/star/planet worship began in Babel and continues to this day; only the names have changed. Start with the teachings of Sumeria, with El/Chronos, Asheroth/Venus, and YHWH/Baal/Jupiter as an example of the original Trinity God the Father, consort of the God, and their offspring. It is believed to begin with Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz, as this is found in the Bible and reinforced in the Sumerian teachings as shown above. We know in the Quran those who lived during the time of Abraham (pbuh) worshiped the stars and planets. Go through each faith of man and see how this continues even to this day.
The Mother is the moon Semiramis/Asheroth/Asherah/Ishtar, the Son is the star Tammuz/YHWH/Baal/Adonis. Focus is on this in the faith of man called Islam as the Mother and Son worship of the pagan of old Mother = Hagar, son = Ishmael (pbuh). 7 is the esoteric mystery school number for completion.
Look to the Catholic renditions of Mary, mother of Isa (pbuh). What is it she stands on? A crescent moon. The S(u)n of God has a disk behind him, representing the sun, as he takes the place of the Father. Same story from Sumeria to Zoroastrian to Judaism to Greek to Rome to today. Even the Christians say Isa (pbuh) will be given the Judgment by the Heavenly Father on the Day of Judgment.
There is so much more, if people research it.But there are some good eggs. A Christian once referred me to a non-Muslim website regarding its classical Arabic rendering of an Arabic word; when I showed him what the commentaries actually had to say he was amused at the length of deception some non-Muslims go to. So it is better to check out the classic Arabic rendering yourself.
The fact this sentiment is stated over and over again proves to me people do not read my comments and gloss over.
I confirm from the original Arabic Quran. As my wife speaks Arabic and Farsi, she has been of much assistance in our studies and my progress of learning Arabic. I have been met with this invalidating argument by followers of hadith, I have to read the original Arabic Quran. If a Scottish-American farm boy can learn Arabic, no one has any excuse not to know what the original Arabic Quran reveals.May Allah pour down patience upon the believers from Most High.
Regarding the words Safa and Marwa, this is what Tabatabai says in his AlMizan
as-Safa (hard smooth rock); al-Marwah (hard stone)
I might later post what Lane's Classical Arabic Lexicon has to say about 'safa' (Book I, p. 1703).
Thank you. You continue to provide proofs. Alhamdulillah!
May Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Peace and blessings.
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peace quickduck, all,
You are right in the correction you made, however I stated the same thing previously in this thread "At the very least, this means going between Safa and Marwah is optional according to AQ.". In the post you refer to, I just shortened my statement for brevity, although I would say I see no practical difference since nothing else is ever mentioned with regard to safa and marwah in AQ.
For my view of 2158 see here.
RA786, I just remembered the name of the idol, it is "dhu al shara", you can research it online. Here is a nice summary
http//www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/history/arabic.txt -
Naah, buddy, I wasn't suggesting that you don't check with the Arabic Quran. Didn't mean to give that impression. Never. Nyet.
Regarding 'safa' in Lane's, it says 'a smooth stone' or 'a smooth rock'; 'a stone that is hard, smooth, large and uncultivable'.
(A she-goat or a she-camel or an ewe abounding with milk is said to be 'safat' or 'safwat' or tasfu'
So there you have the meaning of 'safa' in Lane's classical Arabic lexicon, and Tabatabai's rendering of AlSafa as 'hard smooth rock' is spot on.
So it is not entirely true when non-Muslims say that the meanings of words in classical Arabic is completely different from what is understood today.
(Ann, Jax, Blondie, Scorpion, Susan, Amina....done here. Find me at free-islam.com or the other usual haunts.)
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RA786, I just remembered the name of the idol, it is "dhu al shara", you can research it online. Here is a nice summary
http//www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/history/arabic.txtSalaam Thanks Brother, I looked at the List...It says
"Daughters of Allah"
Allat (Ilat) "the Goddess" Mother goddess, Goddess of
Taif (east of Mecca)
....al-Uzza, Lady `Uzzay-an "the Most Mighty."Is this where we get the Reference in the Quran where Allah states that He does not have a Daughtor and how the Evil People Attributed "Ezra" to Him?
"In Judaic and Christian lore Uzza has been also used as an alternative name for the angel Metatron in the Sefer ha-heshek. More commonly he is referred to as either the seraphim Semyaza or as one of the three guardian angels of Egypt (Rahab, Mastema, and Duma) that harried the Jews during the Exodus"Dhu-al-Shara/Dhu-'sh-Shara/Dushares {Block of
black stone, 4x2} Dying god, son of the Earth
mother. Sacred day, Dec 25.
Hubal Chief god of Ka'bah (Allah?)Hummm.... hmm Sounds like "Jesus" (obviously)
Robert Moory is famour or rather Infamous for his writtings about The Moon Gods Allah, Allat, Hubal and all the other pegan gods who are supposedily "Allah". He has been refuted many times by Islam Awakened.
What I find Interesting is that there seems to be this Consistant Primortial Battle of Shirk and Monotheism. Abraham Smashed the Idols in his Fathers Shop...Muhammad Smashed the Idols in his Uncle's Land (Mecca) and Moses Smashed the Calf Idol as well as destroying the Egyptian Pharohanic System....(Even I had smashed my Previous Idols when I joined Islam) D.
But what History has shown is that the People Continued to retreat back to their Idols. Abrahams people stayed with their Idols, Moses's People Retrated back to their Idols...and now the Arab's have retreated back to their Idols.
I hold a Different Belief from Everyone here I guess... I believe Everyone is a Little Right... Perhaps Ayman is a little right, Robert Moorey is alittle right and so is everyone else. However, I Still think the Kabba actually is Our Center Focal Point and is our Sacred Masjid (in Mecca). I just dont think it is how it is today...If that makes sense...
What I have realized is that There seems to be a DIRECT Connection and Corrolation with Peganism. I have Studied African Latin Witchcraft Peganism, looked at Egyptian Peganism, Arabian Peganism, Asian Peganism, and Masonic type rites and rituals.....What I have realized is that there is a Direct Connection between all of them. its always been a battle between "Them" and "Us".
Why I feel the Kaba is so important is because there is a Great Great Love and Obession with it by the Pegan Elites. WHY? why would the Pegans Continue for 1,000's of years to try any and every way to infultrate in order to take control of tis little black bulding?
If this little Black Box in the middle of NOWHERE with NO VALUE NO IMPORTANCE, why would they want it? what? what does it do or have? It MUST have something...somekind of Value.
Personally my ending Theory is that Islam (monotheism) has been Hijacked Again and again in a Primortal Battle by Pegans (Shirk). Intellectual Batttles, Physical Violent battles, Cononial Battles, and even Linguistic Battles... Each time a Prophet comes to Unravel the Lies and breaks the chains of shirk...an evil party comes to re-instill them again through various means.
The Moon was put on the Kaba and the Masjids and Women were separated and Abused....Then Prophet Muhammad Took the Idols off (Moon) and had to wall in his masjid or any other names other than Allah. Then the Sunni (pegans) have Once Again... Added the Moon back to the Top of the masjid and added the pegan symbols back and had added antother name to Allah. And Once again We must take it Off. a Constant Battle of Shirk and Monotheism.
I dont think the Actual Kaba is Pegan, I dont think the masjid is Pegan, I dont think the entire Religon of Islam is Pegan...BUT I think the Moon of the kabba and masjid are pegan and I think the shirk added to islam is Pegan... I think its a complicated Issue and its not just a THIS or THAT...or an ALL or NOTHING....
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Naah, buddy, I wasn't suggesting that you don't check with the Arabic Quran. Didn't mean to give that impression. Never. Nyet.
Regarding 'safa' in Lane's, it says 'a smooth stone' or 'a smooth rock'; 'a stone that is hard, smooth, large and uncultivable'.
(A she-goat or a she-camel or an ewe abounding with milk is said to be 'safat' or 'safwat' or tasfu'
So there you have the meaning of 'safa' in Lane's classical Arabic lexicon, and Tabatabai's rendering of AlSafa as 'hard smooth rock' is spot on.
So it is not entirely true when non-Muslims say that the meanings of words in classical Arabic is completely different from what is understood today.
(Ann, Jax, Blondie, Scorpion, Susan, Amina....done here. Find me at free-islam.com or the other usual haunts.)
Peace be unto you,
Thank you for all you provided. You have assisted me in my own path to the Truth, alhamdulillah.
May Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
May Allah grant you goodness in this life and in the Hereafter.Peace and blessings.
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What does Everyone think about this? ;D
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/mecca-black-stone-cc-toursaudiarabi.jpg
Section 18 of Quran "Kab'ah as the Spiritual Centre"-Muhammad Mulana Ali Translation and Commentary
And everyone has a goal to which he turns (himself), So vie with one another in good works. Wherever you are, Allah will bring you all together. Surely Allah is Possessor of Power over all things.And from whatsoever place thou comest forth, turn thy face toawrds the sacred Mosque. And surely it is the truth from thy Lord. And Allah is not heedless of what you do.
And from whatsoever place thou comest forth turn thy face towards the Sacred Mosque. And wherever you are turn your faces towards it, so people may have no plea against you except such of that as are unjust---So fear them not and fear Me---and that I may complete My favour to you and that you may go aright.
Surah 2148-150A great honor is thus given to the Sacred Mosque but it must be remembered that the Ka?bah has never been supposed by any Muslim to possess any Divine attribute. The Strange Conclusion drawn by some Christian writers, that the honor thus given to the Ka?bah is a remnant of Pre-Islamic Arab Poly theism or Idolatry, is quite erroneous. The Muslims honor the K?abah because it is their Spiritual Center; They do Not worship it. Even the Idolatrous Arabs never worshipped the Ka?bah, though they had placed idols in it which they worshipped.
It should also be borne in mind that the Famous Black Stone was not one of the Arab idols, nore can the kissing of it in performing the Pilgrimage be looked upon as a remnant of Idoletry. That Stone stands only as a monument.?The Stone which the builders refused is become the head-stone of the corner.?Psalms.11822 Ishmael was looked upon as rejected, and the covenant was considered to have been made with the children of Isaac, yet it was that rejected stone, for which the black stone of the Ka?bah stands as a monument that was to become ?The head stone of the Corner.? The Black stone is unhewn, so it is the stone that was ?Cut out of the Mountain without Hands.? (Dan.245) Jesus Christ made this clear in the parable of the husbandmen, when he plainly told the Israelites that the vineyard (i.e. kingdom of God) would be taken away from them and given to ?other husbandmen.? I.e. To an NON-ISRAELITE people, giving indication of that people in the words ?Did ye never read in the Scriptures, the Stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?? (Matt.2142) And he added ?The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.? (Matt 2143) Thus showing that He was refereeing to a rejected nation. Hence if the Black Stone is kissed it is NOT kissed as an Idol or a ?god? but as monument of the rejection of a nation which was to become the cornerstone of the divine kingdom.
By Completing our favor, is meant the bestowing of spiritual favors on them. The Muslim nation was not like any other nation in the world. Nor was mere advancement in the world their goal. The words with which the next verse opens are a further explanation ?Even as we have sent among you a messenger from among you, who recites to you our messages and purifies you.? They are thus told that they have been raised to carry the Divine Message to other people and to purify them and teach them the book and the wisdom. Spiritual light was hence forth to shine from one spiritual Centre alone. If that Message was not conveyed to other people, they had a plea against the Muslims that they had not conveyed the truth to them. The turning of the face to the Sacred Mosque is thus equivalent to proclaiming the truth which had its origin in the Ka?bah to the whole world. If the Muslims did not do it, they failed in their duty to God and man.The Prophet and his followers are told in this verse that with the change of Prophet hood from the Israelites to the Ishmaelite it was necessary to change the Spiritual Center to, ?so that the people may have no plea against you.? The Ka?ba was the house re-built by Abraham and Ishmael, and with Prophet hood now being transferred to the decedents of Ishmael, the Spiritual Centre had necessarily to be changed. The Ka?bah was more over the 1st Spiritual Center the world. (396) and it was in the fitness of things that it should be the LAST spiritual Centre of the Whole World. The words of the next verse which speak of the messenger in almost the same words as the messenger of Abraham?s Prayer in Verse 129.Make this significance still more clear. In the ?Completion of our favors? in the concluding words of the verse there is a reference to the Muslim Nation being the exalted nation of verse 143 who sole object was to carry the truth to the whole world. The Reference is to Abraham?s Prayer in verse 129, as pointed out in the last note. The functions of the Promised Prophet there are exactly the same here.
What I get from this is that 1) Mulana Muhammad Ali uses the Parable from the Bible reguarding the Rejected Stone (from the mountain not made by hands) to mean both the Real Physical Example of Ishmael, and the Symbolic Black Stone on the Kabah. Is he Correct in this? Is Kissing the blackstone Pegan?
- The FIRST house was made in Becca (Surah 396).
in the previous vereses in Chapter 2 Allah Repeatidly Says to COME to the Sacred Mosque from where you are.... Which gives an OBVIOUS connotation of travel. Meaning Not Everyone is Located there so...the scattered people will be made United at the sacred Mosque ....(United at the Kaba in MECCA) - it is also very coinsodencal that the Previous Vereses (2145) talks about the Location of the Qiblah.
So...what do you think? The more I read it...The more I read, I still believe The Qiblah and Sacred Mosque and House is the Kabah in Mecca. What does it mean by "And it was indeed a Hard Test except for those whom Allah has guided."?
Peace
- The FIRST house was made in Becca (Surah 396).
