Question regarding transsexualism in the Quran

imrankhawaja

I was actually referring to the fact that i haven't watched the full series so i can't call myself an obsessive fan yet ;D

hmm allright, i was thinking something else.

And yeah, i noticed it was getting weird. (but my conversation with savage carrot wasn't any less weird)

lol, ;D humor is a part of happy life

Yosemite

Okay, sorry, that does end the discussion. I wrote a whole fell-funded answer (as i always did in this topic), but after saying insulting things like this, there is no point in continuing to talk with you.

http//i.picpar.com/luQb.jpg
http//www.advocate.com/politics/commentary/2011/09/27/oped-live-world-where-everyone-has-hiv
im not pulling this out of nowhere, i didn't write this as an insult, i simply reported on what i saw

You're alienated from reality, and as long as you don't face reality, you'll only become more frustrated. You've been constantly claiming things about the west are just not true and not even realistic, and you keep on insisting on reliability of data which is by current technology impossible to be reliable or complete. Math revolves around one thing reliable data.

CDC, WHO, and others provide reliable data.

I'm not the one running away from reliable data.

A fact that is very visible to the naked eye is that God created a diverse and beautiful world.

What LGBT folks do is not part of it. It goes directly against the quran.

Just saying. Look at folsom street fair. That's enough for me.

You're using fallacious argumentation to dismiss what i have to write. You're attacking my ability to understand mathematics when you're the one who's been dismissing reliable statistics and empirical data all this time.

You're right for one thing, we have to agree to disagree.

imrankhawaja

somewhere i was studying the first virus of HIV was happened due to homosexulty and they both were gays, something like that,

Sinem

CDC, WHO, and others provide reliable data.

I'm not the one running away from reliable data.
What LGBT folks do is not part of it. It goes directly against the quran.

You didn't quote CDC or WHO even once. You only linked to news articles who quote these reports, but haven't shown me the actual reports even once. Yet you ignore this argument, despite me pointing it out many times. The fact that neither of us knows what the report actually says and what the context of this report is, means that makes your own argument invalid. Yet you keep on using invalid statistics to desperately proof your point which does not seem to align with reality at all. If i know the true context of the reports, then i can critically answer to them. Now i can only tell it's most likely taken out of its context. The actual report probably talks about the context of the people they surveyed in a detailed way. The news article however does not mention anything about that. If you truly think a small sample of the people without any context is representative for everybody in a whole country, you don't understand one of the core principles of scientific research. There's a big difference between 'studies suggest' and 'studies confirm'. No matter the context, considering the relatively small sample, this research only suggests. If you keep on insisting they literally researched every single LGBT person in the country, whilst they clearly didn't... Well, i do not understand your stubbornness at all.

Keep this in mind ignorance does not change the reality itself, it only changes your perception of reality. Math is not an excuse for ignorance.
One thing i know if 'facts' are not aligned with reality, then the facts are incomplete. Serious scientists always admit their research isn't complete, and the ones who claim they know everything never get taken seriously, except by sensationalist news websites.

Also please stop generalising 'the LGBT community' as if it was a homogenous - no pun intended - community. It is not. The so-called community you are familiar with probably goes against the Quran, the majority of the communities i'm familiar with don't go against it at all, or are 'up for debate'. And when taking the very low references to LGBT issues in the Quran in the context it's written in and the context of the actual world, it doesn't even once say it is wrong in se, but wrong depending on the reasonings behind it. Again, i repeat context. Or do you think God condemns context? (of course he doesnt!)
As i said before, these numbers seem realistic in some communities. But it does not sound realistic at all when taking in mind all the different types of communities that exist.

I suggest you discontinue your involvement in this topic to spare yourself from further face loss.

@imrankhawaja that sounds plausible. But again, it only tells you about some homosexuals, which are still a minority, no matter how you toss and turn the facts. Or do you all still think we live in an eighties gay-disco-orgy and they're all dressed like He-Man?

HP_TECH

Sinem if you are indeed of the truthful then yours is a trial so endure it. God created men for women and women for men.

You will be transgressing if your answer to any of the following is yes

Are you planning on altering your body with hormonal therapy or surgery? Are you going to change the way you were created?
if you are attracted to men, do you plan on one day being intimate with men? Do you wish to approach men with lust?

Comrox

In other news, in Pakistan http//www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pakistan-transgender-decree-20160628-snap-story.html

imrankhawaja

In other news, in Pakistan http//www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pakistan-transgender-decree-20160628-snap-story.html

thats old story though

Comrox

thats old story though

Shhh

HP_TECH

In other news, in Pakistan http//www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pakistan-transgender-decree-20160628-snap-story.html

Hi I'm not understanding why you posted this

Comrox

Hi I'm not understanding why you posted this

Just thought it was interesting that traditionalists "accept" transgenders in the Pakistani community.

A_Submitter

Salam,

How can this be a medical issue...This is a test for you perhaps.
Since your child is so young, he isn't mature enough to make decisions for himself.
6415 Your money and children are a test, and with God is a great recompense.

I personally think surgery to change gender is immorality.

Then we also have this verse
2052 He said ?The knowledge of it is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget.?

If God had wanted your boy to be born a girl, He would made it. God doesn't err, nor forget.

Then we have the issue about future. Your boy was born a boy. If he goes through that surgery and marries a man later, it will still be committing homosexuality. I can't find verse now, but homosexuality is sinful.

Salam

A_Submitter

I noticed this was 7 years ago brickwall brickwall

Salam

HP_TECH

Just thought it was interesting that traditionalists "accept" transgenders in the Pakistani community.

What does you think it's interesting mean exactly? I am questioning you because your post seems like a subliminal direct response to me. Do you see me as wrong?

Comrox

What does you think it's interesting mean exactly? I am questioning you because your post seems like a subliminal direct response to me. Do you see me as wrong?

I just think the problems surrounding transgenders is bigger than people realize. I would disagree with your conclusions yes. It sounds like Pakistan is working towards some form of general acceptance of Pakistani transgenders, but it is also recognized in the article that there are definitely hurdles to get through for that community. Like this thread, there are opposite opinions being expressed in the article.

This topic has been debated a lot in this thread and in the real world so it's unlikely any of us are going to reach an consensus. And that's fine.

HP_TECH

I just think the problems surrounding transgenders is bigger than people realize. I would disagree with your conclusions yes. It sounds like Pakistan is working towards some form of general acceptance of Pakistani transgenders, but it is also recognized in the article that there are definitely hurdles to get through for that community. Like this thread, there are opposite opinions being expressed in the article.

This topic has been debated a lot in this thread and in the real world so it's unlikely any of us are going to reach an consensus. ) And that's fine.

Are you a true Muslim, the Quran how do you read it???!

Sinem this is for you too

I think people in support of this transgression try to make it bigger than it is. It is very simple it is WRONG. And I and every firm believer disagree with you Comrox.
So if we disagree about a matter then we refer it to Allah this is Allah's Way and never will it change.
Come let us seek Our Lord's Judgement in this matter.

Ah, so that is why you posted this article.
Do you wish to follow the example of the traditionalist/ neo-progressives/ western culture/ "modernity" wrongdoers??...
That's who you want to look at?? ...very interesting

Let us see what Allah's Word says

Quran 1637
In tahris AAala hudahum fa-inna Allaha la yahdee man yudillu wama lahum min nasireena
If you desire their guidance, then indeed, Allah (will) not guide whom He lets go astray, and not (are) for them any helpers.

Indeed those who are firm in The Scripture follow the example of those whom Allah has guided and has Allah indeed entrusted The Book to us and our hearts adhere to it in fear

Quran 683-90
Quran 690 Those (are) ones whom Allah has guided, so of their guidance you follow. Say, "Not I ask you for it any reward. It (is) not but a reminder for the worlds."

Lot was of those whom Allah had guided

Let us see

2928 And Lut, when he said to his people, "Indeed, you commit the immorality, not has preceded you with it any one from the worlds.
2929 Indeed, you approach the men, and you cut off the road and commit in your meetings evil?" And not was (the) answer (of) his people except that they said, "Bring upon us (the) punishment (of) Allah if you are of the truthful."
2930 He said, "My Lord! Help me against the people the corrupters."

2754 And Lut, when he said to his people, "Do you commit immorality while you see?
2755 Why do you approach the men (with) lust instead of the women? Nay, you (are) a people ignorant."

26160 Denied, (the) people (of) Lut, the Messengers.
26161 When said to them their brother Lut, "Will not you fear (Allah)?
26162 Indeed, I am to you a Messenger trustworthy.
26163 So fear Allah and obey me.
26164 And not I ask you for it any payment Not (is) my payment except from (the) Lord (of) the worlds.
26165 Do you approach the males among the worlds
26166 And you leave what created for you your Lord, of your mates? Nay, you (are) a people transgressing."
26167 They said, "If not you desist, O Lut! Surely, you will be of the ones driven out."

1566 And We conveyed to him the matter that (the) root (of) these would be cut off (by) early morning.
1567 And came (the) people (of) the city, rejoicing.
1568 He said, "Indeed, these (are) my guests, so (do) not shame me.
1569 And fear Allah, and (do) not disgrace me."
1570 They said, "Did not we forbid you from the world?"
1571 He said, "These (are) my daughters if you would be doers."

1178 And came (to) him his people rushing, to him, and before they (had) been doing the evil deeds. He said, "O my people! These (are) my daughters, they (are) purer for you. So fear Allah and (do) not disgrace me concerning my guests. Is (there) not among you a man right-minded?
1179 They said, "Verily you know (that) not we have concerning your daughters any right. And indeed, you surely know what we want."

780 And Lut, when he said to his people, "Do you commit (such) immorality not has preceded you therein any one of the worlds?
781 Indeed, you approach the men lustfully instead of the women. Nay, you (are) a people (who) commit excesses."

How many examples does Allah need to give?
1854 And certainly, We have explained in this the Quran for mankind of every example. But is the man (in) most things quarrelsome.

But indeed Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient. Those who follow their own desires!

3039 So set your face to the religion upright. Nature (made by) Allah (upon) which He has created mankind . NO CHANGE (should there be) in the creation (of) Allah. That (is) the religion the correct, but most men (do) not know.

I don't think any person should be denied treatment or basic human rights. I think it is wrong that the doctors refused to help.
With that being said. No it is plain wrong.

Please stop spreading misconception about the deen and if you are uncertain then ask those of knowledge and refrain from potentially leading readers astray.

Timotheus