Hyper-salafism
-
Many of you have Salafi or "orthodox" Muslim backgrounds, and have left that practice because of the manner the Qur'an and the hadiths were treated by the mainstream.
Some of you have moved on to advocate a form of "progressive" Islam. And some have left the religion entirely, disgusted by the literalist readings. You have said to yourselves, at that moment of turning away "How can I believe in a God that advocates any form of jihad? Of the superiority of men to women? Of ridiculous forms of fashion, beards and nikabs and short trousers, as if these things have a baring on my spiritual path?"
You have turned away from these readings.
But imagine now, if the Prophet of Islam meant something much deeper than your sheikhs have told you. Imagine if this truth is encoded in all the words of the Qur'an and in the hadiths, but has been kept -- by and large -- a secret
http//thegoodgarment.wordpress.com/
What if the Salafi movement got it right -- that every word and letter of the Holy Book <<and>> the authentic hadiths were to be cleaved to, understood and studied -- to find the Light of the Divine within? But what if the problem with the way we read today is that we simply do not delve deeply enough? What if the problem is that we have all become literalists, so little spiritual sustenance can be found?
What if the answer lies in Hyper-Salafism?
Comments, questions and discussion (on blog or here) are very welcome!
The Tailor
-
Many of you have Salafi or "orthodox" Muslim backgrounds, and have left that practice because of the manner the Qur'an and the hadiths were treated by the mainstream.
Some of you have moved on to advocate a form of "progressive" Islam. And some have left the religion entirely, disgusted by the literalist readings. You have said to yourselves, at that moment of turning away "How can I believe in a God that advocates any form of jihad? Of the superiority of men to women? Of ridiculous forms of fashion, beards and nikabs and short trousers, as if these things have a baring on my spiritual path?"
You have turned away from these readings.
But imagine now, if the Prophet of Islam meant something much deeper than your sheikhs have told you. Imagine if this truth is encoded in all the words of the Qur'an and in the hadiths, but has been kept -- by and large -- a secret
http//thegoodgarment.wordpress.com/
What if the Salafi movement got it right -- that every word and letter of the Holy Book <<and>> the authentic hadiths were to be cleaved to, understood and studied -- to find the Light of the Divine within? But what if the problem with the way we read today is that we simply do not delve deeply enough? What if the problem is that we have all become literalists, so little spiritual sustenance can be found?
What if the answer lies in Hyper-Salafism?
Comments, questions and discussion (on blog or here) are very welcome!
The Tailor
Some may have had experiences like that but not all. Many have left Sunnism because of how it made them feel or because they found discrepancies between Koran and hadith. Others come from a Christian background or were lukewarm atheist.
As far as hadiths are concerned, the more I debate the Koran the more discrepancies I find between the Koran and hadith.
Let me talk about myself. I find the attitude of Sunnis, meaning the more religious ones and the clerics, very unattractive. they are not open minded and can not handle tolerance. they are also corrupt and dictatorial. Not all Sunnis are like that but many Sunni activist are like that. Many Sunni forums have no tolerance for an open debate and think they are superior.
There are also many Arabs who are tired of the sectarian divisions in the Muslim world, they see hadith as divisive. There are many reasons why people would leave Sunnism. Not all people who say they are Koranist left Sunnism. Many still have similar views with Sunnism but may not see it as the only way. I am not against the Sunni rituals and I could believe they may be authentic forms of rituals left by the prophet and his companions. I just do not have prove of that and the Koran has chosen to be vague. But hadiths, well i think that many of them are not true and contradict the Koran completely.
I would not make assumption as to why people became Koranist. Some just entered this forum by coincidence and felt attracted. For me it was a long journey that led me here. Even when I came here I was still back and forth. There are still many things I do not know and my views change everytime I get new information. Most people who are active here fall under this category although some have been in this game a longer time. I think its just a question of exposure. There is only very few Koranist websites and as more and more Muslims and non Muslims here about the Koranic movement and learn about it many would enter it but for different reasons. But then again I am very active in the net so i have lots of time to research and learn from others. I am also trying to study the Bible more.
I am very active in the net. I debate Jews, Christians, Atheist and even Salafis. What made me attracted to the Koranic view point was debate experience. I noticed most of the attacks against islam was coming from hadiths. You will notice this to be true if you debate a lot. Then by researching i would come to get the Koranic point of view and realize it says different things from the hadiths. Sheikh Google was a great help. I read the Koran before many times so i remembered some verses and then i would google it to find it.
I also must admit that Western oriental scholarship played a big part also. Joseph Schacht and Ignaz Goldziher were a big eye opener because they exposed me to some new information. I spent hours after hours researching hadith compilation. I tried to find out for myself how reliable hadiths are but never got anywhere. I guess I just got tired. Its important to understand that I was aware of Sunni Islam and Salafism. But many people would not spent this time researching. They can just be teen agers who entered a forum heard about Koranist did a google and entered the forum and got attracted but never posted. They could go and post somehwere else or just practice it. Its hard to know how people think. Most of my family members don't know much about Koran and I rarely talk with them. they are not interested. People who post here tend to be more serious about their religion and most would have researched. But i would not assume that about others.
Are you going through a salafi burnout? I had a salafi burnout long time ago. i am pretty old, reaching 40. I was a Salafi back in the late 80s early 90s. I left salafism as I got older. But I never heard of Koranist back then although i knew the Koran pretty well at least in recitation. I stop becoming religious for a while and just went about my business. After 9-11 I became active again. This time I had the net. It was a huge difference as information was able and different view points was everywhere.
My first experience with Koranist was probably the website moslem.org. I mean real hard core Koranist. I heard about hadith rejection before but I was not sure what it meant in terms of actual difference with Sunnism. They were I think Rashad khalifa influenced or maybe not. I was debating them but they also lacked information. Actually we all did and still in some ways still do. This is because not many Koranist are active but their numbers are growing. One thing i learned is that debates teach you a lot more than researching. I want to learn more about the Bible.
I think Sunnism is dead. Don't you?
-
When ever I hear salafi, I just think dajjali.
I have to agree.
I have lived according to the salaafs believes for some time now. And it ended with me almost leaving God completely. But then I remembered this forum... And all the insights I got from here many years ago. So I came back!
This God alone-thing is what got me less confused and more sure, its logical. I now trust myself and don't consider me as religious but more just a believer in God.Salam,
Aisha -
I have to agree.
I have lived according to the salaafs believes for some time now. And it ended with me almost leaving God completely. But then I remembered this forum... And all the insights I got from here many years ago. So I came back!
This God alone-thing is what got me less confused and more sure, its logical. I now trust myself and don't consider me as religious but more just a believer in God.Salam,
AishaYet most people here goes against Quran 6159, 3032.
-
Yet most people here goes against Quran 6159, 3032.
-
As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
-
Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!
Why not quote the verses?
-
-
Many of you have Salafi or "orthodox" Muslim backgrounds, and have left that practice because of the manner the Qur'an and the hadiths were treated by the mainstream.
Some of you have moved on to advocate a form of "progressive" Islam. And some have left the religion entirely, disgusted by the literalist readings. You have said to yourselves, at that moment of turning away "How can I believe in a God that advocates any form of jihad? Of the superiority of men to women? Of ridiculous forms of fashion, beards and nikabs and short trousers, as if these things have a baring on my spiritual path?"
You have turned away from these readings.
But imagine now, if the Prophet of Islam meant something much deeper than your sheikhs have told you. Imagine if this truth is encoded in all the words of the Qur'an and in the hadiths, but has been kept -- by and large -- a secret
http//thegoodgarment.wordpress.com/
What if the Salafi movement got it right -- that every word and letter of the Holy Book <<and>> the authentic hadiths were to be cleaved to, understood and studied -- to find the Light of the Divine within? But what if the problem with the way we read today is that we simply do not delve deeply enough? What if the problem is that we have all become literalists, so little spiritual sustenance can be found?
What if the answer lies in Hyper-Salafism?
Comments, questions and discussion (on blog or here) are very welcome!The Tailor
That's sufism, not salafism. If it doesn't have cheese, it's not a cheese sandwich. If it isn't brainless literalism, it isn't salafism.
-
Maybe it's stilton, rather than mild cheddar. Packs more of a punch to the nose, and brings the funk O0
-
That's sufism, not salafism. If it doesn't have cheese, it's not a cheese sandwich. If it isn't brainless literalism, it isn't salafism.
No actually he is correct. Its salafism. The Sufis in North America and maybe Europe talk like that because of the Salafi influence that Sufis are not following the "pure" teachings of Islam. Look at the Sudanese TV and you will see Sufis appearing regularly but rarely with a beard and none of them shorten their trousers or robes.But the Salafi influence put pressure on them to act exactly how the hadith says at least in public.
-
In maldives (my country) salafis are called habis or wahabis and they are a minority religion elektro
-
No actually he is correct. Its salafism. The Sufis in North America and maybe Europe talk like that because of the Salafi influence that Sufis are not following the "pure" teachings of Islam. Look at the Sudanese TV and you will see Sufis appearing regularly but rarely with a beard and none of them shorten their trousers or robes.But the Salafi influence put pressure on them to act exactly how the hadith says at least in public.
I don't mean the fashion, but the idea of looking for the deeper, mystical, alagorical meaning of passages.
-
-
As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
-
Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!
Why not quote the verses?
I only remember the verse numbers, not always the text. And that's 3031-32
-
-
I don't mean the fashion, but the idea of looking for the deeper, mystical, alagorical meaning of passages.
Salams, god clearly states that only the people "In whose hearts is pervasiveness" go looking for the deeper, allegorical meanings of Qur'anic verses. (In Chapter Aali Imraan) Hope that straightens things out...
-
No -that is misquoting the Quran. It says that that those who's hearts are bad FOLLOW the allegorical passages, i.e. pretending they are literal. So actually this is a passage condemning the fundamentalists, because it clearly says that some passages in the Quran are allegorical. The verse is 37.
-
If it isn't brainless literalism, it isn't salafism.
rotfl bravo
-
37 is not about the quran; especially, if you study the context.
Actually, looking at the context, it is about the Quran.
33 He sent down to you the book with truth, authenticating what is present with it; and He sent down the Torah and the Injeel.
34 Before; He sent down the Criterion as guidance for the people. For those who become unappreciative of God's signs/revelations, they will have a tough retribution, and God is Noble, exacting in Revenge.
-
al kitab bil haqq (the book with truth) is al quran, sure.
Al kitab, itself, is NOT al quran. The context is 31-10, on...
The quran gives detail to al kitab. 1037
Furthermore, knowledge from 'the book' gave somebody the power to teleport a mansion (2740) The book also contains natural phenomenon (638-39).
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9120.0
-
al kitab bil haqq (the book with truth) is al quran, sure.
Al kitab, itself, is NOT al quran. The context is 31-10, on...
The quran gives detail to al kitab. 1037
Furthermore, knowledge from 'the book' gave somebody the power to teleport a mansion (2740) The book also contains natural phenomenon (638-39).
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9120.0
Does 'al kitab' never refer to the Quran, IYO?
-
Some may have had experiences like that but not all. Many have left Sunnism because of how it made them feel or because they found discrepancies between Koran and hadith. Others come from a Christian background or were lukewarm atheist.
As far as hadiths are concerned, the more I debate the Koran the more discrepancies I find between the Koran and hadith.
Let me talk about myself. I find the attitude of Sunnis, meaning the more religious ones and the clerics, very unattractive. they are not open minded and can not handle tolerance. they are also corrupt and dictatorial. Not all Sunnis are like that but many Sunni activist are like that. Many Sunni forums have no tolerance for an open debate and think they are superior.
There are also many Arabs who are tired of the sectarian divisions in the Muslim world, they see hadith as divisive. There are many reasons why people would leave Sunnism. Not all people who say they are Koranist left Sunnism. Many still have similar views with Sunnism but may not see it as the only way. I am not against the Sunni rituals and I could believe they may be authentic forms of rituals left by the prophet and his companions. I just do not have prove of that and the Koran has chosen to be vague. But hadiths, well i think that many of them are not true and contradict the Koran completely.
I would not make assumption as to why people became Koranist. Some just entered this forum by coincidence and felt attracted. For me it was a long journey that led me here. Even when I came here I was still back and forth. There are still many things I do not know and my views change everytime I get new information. Most people who are active here fall under this category although some have been in this game a longer time. I think its just a question of exposure. There is only very few Koranist websites and as more and more Muslims and non Muslims here about the Koranic movement and learn about it many would enter it but for different reasons. But then again I am very active in the net so i have lots of time to research and learn from others. I am also trying to study the Bible more.
I am very active in the net. I debate Jews, Christians, Atheist and even Salafis. What made me attracted to the Koranic view point was debate experience. I noticed most of the attacks against islam was coming from hadiths. You will notice this to be true if you debate a lot. Then by researching i would come to get the Koranic point of view and realize it says different things from the hadiths. Sheikh Google was a great help. I read the Koran before many times so i remembered some verses and then i would google it to find it.
I also must admit that Western oriental scholarship played a big part also. Joseph Schacht and Ignaz Goldziher were a big eye opener because they exposed me to some new information. I spent hours after hours researching hadith compilation. I tried to find out for myself how reliable hadiths are but never got anywhere. I guess I just got tired. Its important to understand that I was aware of Sunni Islam and Salafism. But many people would not spent this time researching. They can just be teen agers who entered a forum heard about Koranist did a google and entered the forum and got attracted but never posted. They could go and post somehwere else or just practice it. Its hard to know how people think. Most of my family members don't know much about Koran and I rarely talk with them. they are not interested. People who post here tend to be more serious about their religion and most would have researched. But i would not assume that about others.
Are you going through a salafi burnout? I had a salafi burnout long time ago. i am pretty old, reaching 40. I was a Salafi back in the late 80s early 90s. I left salafism as I got older. But I never heard of Koranist back then although i knew the Koran pretty well at least in recitation. I stop becoming religious for a while and just went about my business. After 9-11 I became active again. This time I had the net. It was a huge difference as information was able and different view points was everywhere.
My first experience with Koranist was probably the website moslem.org. I mean real hard core Koranist. I heard about hadith rejection before but I was not sure what it meant in terms of actual difference with Sunnism. They were I think Rashad khalifa influenced or maybe not. I was debating them but they also lacked information. Actually we all did and still in some ways still do. This is because not many Koranist are active but their numbers are growing. One thing i learned is that debates teach you a lot more than researching. I want to learn more about the Bible.
I think Sunnism is dead. Don't you?
Really? I always thought that sunnism is in need of dire reform rather than dead, but then what exactly is that you are referring to sunnism as??? The sunnism that was taken as a choice at the death of the prophet or the phenomena which is being practiced today????