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  4. Is The Focal Point = The Law of God ?

Is The Focal Point = The Law of God ?

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  • A Offline
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    almarh0m
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Salamun alaykum

    I have just read verses regarding Al Masjid al Haram and various tranlations of its meanings again , and I am still sure that The Inviolable Institution of Obedience as the meaning or The Law . Of course when I say the law , I mean The Law of God which every believer must obey ( I am using 'must' obey here though aware of " There is no Compulsion in Deen " ) . Now , let us see where should the believers take their source to formulate their law from .

    " Shall I seek other than God as a source of law when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed ? Those who received the scripture know that it has been revealed from your Lord truthfully , therefore you should not be of the doubters ". ( 6114 ) . It is clear from this verse that the only source of law for the believers is none other than Qur'an , some may argue that we should include The Taurat and The Injeel , but as most , if not all of us here already know that both those scriptures and other prior books have all been incorporated and confirmed into and in The Qur'an . Now , how did I arrive at The Law as The Focal point ?

    "Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towards the Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, and those who have been given the Book most surely know that it is the truth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do".
    From the verse above I deduced that The Focal Point is "Inviolable Institution of Obedience or The Law , according to this ayat we are also told to be mindful of "The Law" wherever we are and that the people of the Book knows that This Law is The Truth From Their Lord .( 2144 ) .

    In the following verse ( 2145 ) , we are told that , the people of the book will not follow This Law ( Focal Point ) even if we bring it to them . The subsequent verse re-inforces the previous one , i.e. These people of ( the previous Messengers' followers and ourselves we are also given the Qur'an ) recognize This focal point or The Law of God , as this is The Truth From their Lord like they would know their own children , but some of them will hide this Truth while they know it .

    I would like to make it clear that this is just my personal understanding of the Focal Point and The Law as per Ayats cited above . So any correction is welcome from anyone , and it is appreciated . We know that The Truth is From our Lord , so be not of those who doubts ( Qur'an 2147 . What is clear to me is thet believers must only take The Qur'an as the source for law making and the Truth from our Lord as our Focal Point .

    Peace

    almarh0m

    p.s I hit "post" accidentally much earlier , so please accept my apologies for any glaring errors .

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      Samia
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Salaam almarh0m

      And this is the Law

      151
      say 'come, i will recite to you what your lord forbids you; that you shall associate anything with him; that you shall be good to your parents, that you shall not kill your children because of poverty, we provide for you and for them, that you shall not commit foul deeds whether openly or in secret, and that you shall not kill the soul that allah has forbidden except by right. with such allah charges you, in order that you understand. (151)

      do not touch the wealth of the orphan, except in the fairer manner until he reaches maturity. give just weight and full measure, we never charge a soul with more than it can bear. when you speak, be just, even if it affects your own kinsmen. fulfill the covenant of allah. with such he charges you, in order that you remember. (152)
      152

      this path of mine is straight. follow it and do not follow other paths, for they will scatter you away from his path. with such allah charges you, in order that you be cautious. (153)
      153

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      • A Offline
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        almarh0m
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Peace be unto you Sister

        I planned to include the verses in your post above and others as well , but unfortunately my little girl Hit the Post button long before I intended it -[ . Thanks for the additional Commandment Verses ( 6151-153 ) . What do you think of The Inviolable Institution of Obedience or The Law ( al Masjid al Haram ) as the Focal point ?

        Peace

        almarh0m

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        • S Offline
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          Samia
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Salaam

          Of course this should be the focal point wherever we are, whenever we are and with whomever we are dealing.

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            Q_student
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Salaam All
            Masjid = Place where Sajada is performed

            ) (

            INSTITUTION

            Dictionary
            noun
            1.
            2.
            3.
            4.
            5.
            6.
            7.
            8.
            9.
            10.
            more

            Source http//translate.google.com/translate_t?hl=en#en|ar|%20institution%20

            Regards

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              Samia
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Salaam All
              Masjid = Place where Sajada is performed

              And what's "sajada"?

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                Q_student
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                And what's "sajada"?

                Salaam Samia

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                  TAJ
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Salam Student,

                  Salaam Samia

                  • ( 3 / 204)
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                  And how does that apply to the trees and stars?

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                    Q_student
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Salam Student,

                    And how does that apply to the trees and stars?

                    Brother Salaam

                    Regards

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                    • U Offline
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                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Salaam almarh0m

                      And this is the Law

                      151
                      say 'come, i will recite to you what your lord forbids you; that you shall associate anything with him; that you shall be good to your parents, that you shall not kill your children because of poverty, we provide for you and for them, that you shall not commit foul deeds whether openly or in secret, and that you shall not kill the soul that allah has forbidden except by right. with such allah charges you, in order that you understand. (151)

                      do not touch the wealth of the orphan, except in the fairer manner until he reaches maturity. give just weight and full measure, we never charge a soul with more than it can bear. when you speak, be just, even if it affects your own kinsmen. fulfill the covenant of allah. with such he charges you, in order that you remember. (152)
                      152

                      this path of mine is straight. follow it and do not follow other paths, for they will scatter you away from his path. with such allah charges you, in order that you be cautious. (153)
                      153

                      If this is the Qibla, i agree it is, then why does the quran say the people of the book will not follow it?

                      2145
                      Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla...............

                      and don't they really follow it?

                      hmm

                      peace

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                        Samia
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Verse 2145 should be read in context with the previous verses and the verse that follows. I think verse 145 speaks of those who will not accept it and specifically mentions those who had the book before, and who are not excused to not accept it It's about the party of the people of the book who reject it.

                        we have seen you turning your face towards the heaven, we shall surely turn you to a direction that shall satisfy you. so turn your face towards the sacred mosque (built by abraham); wherever you are, turn your faces to it. ' those to whom the book was given know this to be the truth from their lord. allah is not inattentive of what they do. (144)
                        144

                        but even if you brought those to whom the book had been given every proof, they would not accept your direction, nor would you accept theirs; nor would any of them accept the direction of the other. if after all the knowledge you have been given you yield to their desires, then you will surely be among the harmdoers. (145)
                        145

                        those to whom we gave the book know it as they know their own sons. but a party of them conceal the truth while they know. (146)
                        146

                        .

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                          unknownuser
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Hi Samia,

                          And this is the Law

                          I think you said the ?law? was the focal point! Is that right?

                          And that is in the Ayah?s 151,152,153 you described.

                          2145
                          Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs???.

                          This Ayah is explicitly talking about the people of the book as a whole, and not a fraction, that they do not follow your Qibla, Don?t they then follow the laws in the ayah?s you indicated , the Jews and Christians, if indeed those are the people of the book? THANKS.

                          !

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                            Samia
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Yes, the law is that of the straight path and it should be evrybody's "qibla". If the verse says that the people of the book know it as they know their sons, and only a party of them conceals the Truth, how would it be that ALL of the people of the book will not accept it?
                            I really do not know.

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                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Yes, the law is that of the straight path and it should be evrybody's "qibla". If the verse says that the people of the book know it as they know their sons, and only a party of them conceals the Truth, how would it be that ALL of the people of the book will not accept it?
                              I really do not know.

                              Sorry if i am repeating my quistion - it's just to clarify your view.

                              We do know the three religions do believe in this focal point, i am sure you are aware.......

                              2145
                              Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla.....

                              Yet we are being told they will not follow this Qibla....

                              2146
                              The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.

                              Even though some of them know this Qibla they conceal it.......

                              So how could they be the christians and the jews - when they will not follow it first (according to the quran) and some of them concealing it if they knew?

                              They can't be christians and the jews can they?

                              peace

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                                TAJ
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Salam Student,

                                And what's "sajada"?

                                Salaam Samia

                                • ( 3 / 204)
                                  ( )

                                Salam Student,

                                And how does that apply to the trees and stars?

                                Brother Salaam

                                Regards

                                So where is the word "Sajada" OR any of its derivatives in the Ayah you mentioned?

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                                  Q_student
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Salam Student,
                                  Salaam Samia

                                  • ( 3 / 204)
                                    ( )

                                  Salam Student,

                                  And how does that apply to the trees and stars?

                                  Brother Salaam

                                  Regards

                                  So where is the word "Sajada" OR any of its derivatives in the Ayah you mentioned?

                                  Salaam Brother
                                  Ponder it , You will get inshallah.
                                  Regards

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                                    TAJ
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Salaam Brother
                                    Ponder it , You will get inshallah.
                                    Regards

                                    Don't you think that pondering is one thing and setting a LAW or a RULE is another?

                                    And btw, how do you get it and I ) don't? Why do you believe that I haven't got it while you already have ) !? What are you saying about yourself here, about others (i.e. me), and also about the Quran itself?

                                    p.s. when you write "insha Allah" in your statement above, it still wouldn't make it sound any humble and considerate!

                                    Take care.

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                                      Samia
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      They can't be christians and the jews can they?

                                      Salaam Simple

                                      It's not who the people of the book that's bothering me. It's the logical argument in the set of verses I posted that I could not understand.

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                                        truthseeker11
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Peace Samia, everyone,

                                        You cannot understand the logic because you are limiting the inviolable institution of obedience/al-masjid al-haraam only to 6151-153.

                                        Al-masjid al-haraam does not mean institution of obedience OF the forbidden (that would be masjid al-haraam, without the AL before masjid). It means the inviolable institution of obedience, meaning that institution of obedience of all the commandments of The God is inviolable (not just the hurumaat). In other words we cannot violate ANY of the commandments of The God.

                                        The Christians set up partners with The God by making Jesus the son of The God. The Jews set up partners by worshipping the wailing wall. They do not follow the laws of inheritance as given in The God's commandments (the qur'aan). They do not follow the punishment of pornography as given in The God's commandments. Their marriage or divorce is not according to The God's commandments. They do not avoid alcohol according to The God's commandments. The Christians eat pig's meat against The God's commandments. ETC. ETC. ETC.

                                        HENCE

                                        2145 And if you come to those who have been given the book with every sign they will not follow your focal point, nor will you follow their focal point, nor will some of them even follow each others focal point. And if you were to follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you would be one of the wicked.

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                                          truthseeker11
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Peace everyone,

                                          To all those who think that al-masjid al-haraam is a physical building and kaaba is a cuboidal stone structure, I have the following questions

                                          Can you please enlighten me where the physical structure named "DEEN" is located, because one of the signs talks about ENTERING it

                                          1102 And you see the people ENTERING into God?s DEEN in flocks.

                                          I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to ENTER this PHYSICAL STRUCTURE by the name of DEEN.

                                          Also can you please enlighten me where the physical highway named "SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM" is located, because one of the signs talks about WALKING on this path

                                          6722 Is one who walks while his face is slumped better guided, or one who WALKS straight on the SIRAT MUSTAQEEM?

                                          I want to follow God's guidance and am eager to WALK this PHYSICAL PATH by the name of SIRAT MUSTAQEEM.

                                          Thank God the pagans did not make a pyramidal structure by the name of DEEN, and a golden highway by the name of SIRAAT MUSTAQEEM, otherwise majority would be worshipping those stone structures nowadays.

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