Is the Quran really easy to understand?
-
Peace truthseeker11, I disagree with your translation of verse 37.
37 He is the one who sent down to you the scripture, from which there are governing verses; they are the essence of the scripture; and others which are similar/allegorical. As for those who have disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar/allegorical from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except the god. And those who are well founded in knowledge say ?We believe in it, all is from our lord.? And none will remember except the people of understanding.
Here is my justification for the disagreement
Quran contains clear verses.
Quran contains unclear verses.
Bad people use the unclear verses to divert peoples.
Note Bad people do not follow the clear verses either. They are helper of satan.
This is the category of people the God is referring to in the verse 37.
The good people (believer) follow the clear verses without any doubt whatsoever.
Some of the good people (believer) try to understand the meaning of unclear verses as the Quran is full of wisdom.
2269 - He bestows wisdom upon whomever He chooses, and whoever attains wisdom, has attained a great bounty. Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.
The God is not forbidding the good people (believer) from seeking the meaning (studying) of the unclear verses; you are, via your translation.
Can you show me Quranic evidence that forbids believer from studying the whole Quran?
1591 - They accept the Quran only partially.
482 - Why do they not study the Quran carefully?
The Quran instructs us to study the whole Quran.
Please read through the ninth page of this thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598270.120
especially Edip Yuksel's post.Peace
-
Peace
Application. Apply what you know so far. Study the book, live the book, and as you grow in understanding modify your practice. Too much theory out there, not enough pragmatic usage. Theoretical persuits can only take you so far on the journey .
Joe
That sounds like brilliant advice.
-
Quran contains clear verses.
Quran contains unclear verses.
Which word of the Quran could be translated as "unclear"?
Peace
I have not come across the word unclear in the Quran. Like I said, I could be wrong and would appreciate some input.
If you reread my first post on this thread, you will find my reasons for thinking that certain verses in the Quran are unclear.God bless
-
Peace
I have not come across the word unclear in the Quran. Like I said, I could be wrong and would appreciate some input.
If you reread my first post on this thread, you will find my reasons for thinking that certain verses in the Quran are unclear.God bless
He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses
I have read other translations and they are the same.
God bless
-
37 - He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses??
From above verse one can conclude that there are two categories of verses in the Quran i.e. straightforward category and multiple-meaning category
In my previous post I have equated straightforward = clear and multiple-meaning = unclear. Those are poor choice of words.
Mazhar, thank you for pointing it out to me.
I am amending my previous post on this thread to the following
Peace truthseeker11, I disagree with your translation of verse 37.
37 He is the one who sent down to you the scripture, from which there are governing verses; they are the essence of the scripture; and others which are similar/allegorical. As for those who have disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar/allegorical from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except the god. And those who are well founded in knowledge say ?We believe in it, all is from our lord.? And none will remember except the people of understanding.
Here is my justification for the disagreement
Quran contains straightforward verses.
Quran contains multiple-meaning verses.
Bad people use the multiple-meaning verses to divert peoples.
Note Bad people do not follow the straightforward verses either. They are helper of satan.
This is the category of people the God is referring to in the verse 37.
The good people (believer) follow the straightforward verses without any doubt whatsoever.
Some of the good people (believer) try to understand the meaning of multiple-meaning verses as the Quran is full of wisdom.
2269 - He bestows wisdom upon whomever He chooses, and whoever attains wisdom, has attained a great bounty. Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.
The God is not forbidding the good people (believer) from seeking the meaning (studying) of the multiple-meaning verses; you are, via your translation.
Can you show me Quranic evidence that forbids believer from studying the whole Quran?
1591 - They accept the Quran only partially.
482 - Why do they not study the Quran carefully?
The Quran instructs us to study the whole Quran.
Peace to all.
-
Peace nsws1988,
Quote ?I have read other translations and they are the same.?
The difference we are talking about is this
37 ?------ None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. ---?
Vs.
37 ?----- But none know its interpretation except the god. And those who are well founded in knowledge say -----?
Please note where the period is in the above two translations. One allows comprehension of multiple-meaning verses by the believer and the other doesn?t.
-
Peace nsws1988,
Quote ?I have read other translations and they are the same.?
The difference we are talking about is this
37 ?------ None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. ---?
Vs.
37 ?----- But none know its interpretation except the god. And those who are well founded in knowledge say -----?
Please note where the period is in the above two translations. One allows comprehension of multiple-meaning verses by the believer and the other doesn?t.
Peace
I was referring to the part about the allegorical verses, but I hadn't compared the translation of the rest of the verse. I'll look into that one. Thanks!
-
Peace nsws1988,
Quote ?I have read other translations and they are the same.?
The difference we are talking about is this
37 ?------ None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. ---?
Vs.
37 ?----- But none know its interpretation except the god. And those who are well founded in knowledge say -----?
Please note where the period is in the above two translations. One allows comprehension of multiple-meaning verses by the believer and the other doesn?t.
Peace guest, all
I think the translation should be
37 ?----- But none know its original interpretation except the god. And those who are well founded in knowledge say -----?
The word used in Arabic is "ta?weelahu", from the same root as "awwal" meaning "first", and that would give "its first intended meaning".
37 ?----- But none know its first intended meaning except the god. And those who are well founded in knowledge say -----?
Thus, anybody has the right to understand the scripture, but nobody can claim to know its first intended meaning. This is the beauty of this verse, it is telling us that it is vain to argue about the meaning of the similar/not so clear verses, because anyway, only the god knows and we have no way to ask the author of this book about what he meant... And those who are well founded in knowledge say everything is from the god. Thus, we have to study the scripture but not spend all our time arguing about its "not so clear verses", instead we have to look around us, the god the truth is everywhere. We should not limit ourselves.
-
Peace
One should not expect to understand "all of The Qur'an " in one's life time , after all god has not created an all knowing human being yet . Of course it does not mean that we should not try to understand as much of the Qur'an as we are able to . The Qur'an is easy if all we want is moral guidance and obeying "The Law of God" for our salvation here and hereafter . We should be able to extract as much knowledge and wisdom from the Qur'an as the effort that we put in to understand it .
Cheers
almarh0m
-
Peace Someone,
You say ?Thus, anybody has the right to understand the scripture, but nobody can claim to know its first intended meaning.?
I disagree, respectfully of course. This violates the fundamental tenet of any message i.e. the author trying to convey the message clearly and efficiently to the reader of the message.
In our case, The Quran is the message and The God is the author. And The God is the best author and his message is very clear to the sincere reader. If you seek a little, you will get a little. If you seek more, you will get more.
From your statement one can infer that the God is intentionally misleading us by withholding the correct meaning of some verses. Further, the God is not a good communicator. How do you resolve this situation?
Peace almarh0m,
Quote ?One should not expect to understand "all of The Qur'an " in one's life time , after all god has not created an all knowing human being yet.?
Where do you get idea that knowing the Quran fully equates to ?all knowing human? when the Quran says the knowledge given to you (us) is minute. The Quran talks about unseen things but do no describe them. Please rethink your position.
-
Peace guest, all
I understand your concerns about the god being the best communicator, but from your point of view, he is unable to convey the message efficiently to mankind. You have difficulties resolving this seeming contradiction.
Besides "al quran", the god the creator created and keeps creating multitude of creatures everyday, yet some people still deny even his existance. How that can be? Is his creation not enough an indicator of his own existance? How clearer than that should he make it?
Also, the message of "al quran" is for the good of the people, certainly not for the god as he is far above needing anything. As almarh0m said in his lastest post, "al quran" is very clear for guidance, defining the limits of the god and the straight path for our own benefit.
Please also understand that the meaning of a simple word might be subject to endless arguing. But then we have to go back ask the first human who used that word, and ask him what he really meant by it, which he could do, but also using other words.... and the argument can go on forever.
Conclusion If our goal is to argue endlessly (to satisfy our egos), surely we can find enough subjects to argue about, and for all the time we want. Even in "al quran", humans are said to love arguing (sorry, I don't have the verse at hand).
On the other hand, if our goal is to find the truth, then the truth is overwhelming, we only have to open our minds to sense a part of it, since we cannot grasp the whole of it, not in this life anyway. It is like trying to put the sea in a cup, the cup will olny take as much as it can hold.
I hope the above clarifies the supposed contradiction.
-
Peace someone,
"As almarh0m said in his lastest post, "al quran" is very clear for guidance, defining the limits of the god and the straight path for our own benefit."
I agree that the Quran is clear when it comes to guidance.
What I meant was that there are certain verses that have only made sense to us humans after scientific discovries. So the miracles of the Quran are hidden, IMO, and are revealed over time. See the link in my first post.God bless
-
Peace someone,
"As almarh0m said in his lastest post, "al quran" is very clear for guidance, defining the limits of the god and the straight path for our own benefit."
I agree that the Quran is clear when it comes to guidance.
What I meant was that there are certain verses that have only made sense to us humans after scientific discovries. So the miracles of the Quran are hidden, IMO, and are revealed over time. See the link in my first post.God bless
Dear sister
What are making use of this "Clear" and "easy Quran" statements ?
Above in one thread after 30 pages of discussion there has not been any consensus on definition of
-Mohasanaat
-Ujoor
Ultimately one gentleman pulled out justification of "PRostitution " from the Quran.
Where is the defect? Why are not able to understand this clear message ?
Regards -
Peace Q_s
Dear sister
What are making use of this "Clear" and "easy Quran" statements ?
Above in one thread after 30 pages of discussion there has not been any consensus on definition of
-Mohasanaat
-Ujoor
Ultimately one gentleman pulled out justification of "PRostitution " from the Quran.
Where is the defect? Why are not able to understand this clear message ?
RegardsIt is a clear sign for those who wish to take heed of God's teaching only . Obviously , those 31 pages of discussions and heading towards 500 posts and perhaps beyond , should be a record for FM and what have been resolved regarding the topic of the thread ? This "prostitution" rabbit was pulled out of some Mullah's Turban or what ?
It is incredible , when you think of those supposedly "Clear" verses can be turned into some sorts of 'cypher language' to be decoded by an open slather and free for all interpretations . Throw everything at those verses , hermeneutics and all to get the meaning that yes , prostitution is ok as long as one pays the AJR . Goodness gracious , AJR has become the word of the month huh ? hail
Peace
almarh0m
-
Peace Someone,
You say ?---- but from your point of view, he is unable to convey the message efficiently to mankind. You have difficulties resolving this seeming contradiction.?
This is not my point of view rather this is the view one can infer from your statement. In other word this is what you are saying indirectly. One course of action (a suggestion) is to review your assertion very carefully and then modify or retract it.
I don?t see contradiction in the Quran. Therefore, I don?t have to resolve anything.
You say ? --- then the truth is overwhelming,? & ? -- since we cannot grasp the whole of it ?--?
I hope you are speaking for yourself. Please do not pass that judgment to others.
You say ?--- It is like trying to put the sea in a cup, the cup will olny take as much as it can hold. ---?
You and I cannot do that but the God can. He can fit full understanding of the Quran into someone?s head of His choosing. Why do you want to eliminate that option? Why do you want to constrain the God?
Please reflect on this verse;
5110 - GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. Recall that you created from clay the shape of a bird by My leave, then blew into it, and it became a live bird by My leave. You healed the blind and the leprous by My leave, and revived the dead by My leave. Recall that I protected you from the Children of Israel who wanted to hurt you, despite the profound miracles you had shown them. The disbelievers among them said, `This is obviously magic.'
-
Peace guest,
Only in your last post, there are tens of words that we can argue about their first intended meaning (as used in al-quran), and that would take us some months to arrive to an agreement, if ever.
To prove me wrong on this issue, you have just to point to someone who has the full truth or the first intended meaning of al-quran, besides its author. Until then, my point is valid.
Also, you seem to believe in miracles while I don't. So there is a big gap between our positions.
If you feel confortable in your position, so be it. Surely, my posts only reflect my opinion, which may agree with the truth or not. Thank you for reading and commenting on it, but if you would like to discuss a point in my posts, please formulate it in a simple and concise way, in a short sentence, so we won't get lost in interpretations (simple logical statements). Then we can take one point at a time.