ARE WOMEN ALLOWED TO INITIATE DIVORCE?
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salam l.hu.
My rule is if it fits the context of a Quranic verse its a possibly meaning. Some advocate studying other semitic languages for the Quran. But I think thats far fected. To me Lanes Lexicon is the easist source. But I think Murfadat, Taj Al Arus and the Lisan are the best sources.
look at how you present your statements
My rule is
and then you say
I think
and then you say
To me
and then
But I thinkThis is the problem I have with your methodology, it is based completely in your rules and opinions. I ask you, whom do you worship, yourself or allah?
allah had the torah recited in hebrew, the injeel recited in aramaic, the quran recited in arabic. anyone with an iota of knowledge about hijazi arabic knows arabic evolved from hebrew and aramaic. if arabic evolved from hebrew and aramaic, then the definitions of arabic words have their origins in hebrew and aramaic. this is not hard to comprehend.
there are far too many false definitions of arabic words, due to colloquial misuse, which occurs in any language. the only way to strip out the colloquialisms, and be true to the actual root origin of the word, is to know the root origin of the word. unless you grasp and implement this method, you will mislead yourself into a lack of understanding, and go down the wrong path. why would you want to go down the wrong path?
allah raises man by stages.
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If etymology be the rule men can not be "hysterical" in english. Also women can not "testify" on the basis of etymology. Women can not also on the basis of etymology be "virtuous". The reason why men can not be "hysterical" is because "hysterical" is derived from the Greek word for womb. Women can not testify since the words origin lies in the Roman practice of swearing on one's testes, and virtuous comes from "vir" meaning man. With that example etymology should not be the rule. Also your claim is wrong that hijazi arabic came from hebrew and aramiac. Please do not make such false claims, if you are truthful. You need to actully research. The claim you have made about hijazi arabic shows that you seriosly have not research this. Read Kees Verstagh. You also claim (atleast you seem to be claiming this) that colloquial difinitions are in classical dictionaries. Please before making your claims research them. Or else if you continue to make such claims this dicussion will continue to be useless. "This is the problem I have with your methodology, it is based completely in your rules and opinions". My freind what did Barmack ask me of. My methodology right. For discovering right meanings of Quranic arabic did Allah set up a methodology? Is the Quran a dictionary? Please I ask not in a mean way but in a nice way. Hit the books and analyes your ideas.
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If etymology be the rule men can not be "hysterical" in english. Also women can not "testify" on the basis of etymology. Women can not also on the basis of etymology be "virtuous". The reason why men can not be "hysterical" is because "hysterical" is derived from the Greek word for womb. Women can not testify since the words origin lies in the Roman practice of swearing on one's testes, and virtuous comes from "vir" meaning man. With that example etymology should not be the rule. Also your claim is wrong that hijazi arabic came from hebrew and aramiac. Please do not make such false claims, if you are truthful. You need to actully research. The claim you have made about hijazi arabic shows that you seriosly have not research this. Read Kees Verstagh. You also claim (atleast you seem to be claiming this) that colloquial difinitions are in classical dictionaries. Please before making your claims research them. Or else if you continue to make such claims this dicussion will continue to be useless. "This is the problem I have with your methodology, it is based completely in your rules and opinions". My freind what did Barmack ask me of. My methodology right. For discovering right meanings of Quranic arabic did Allah set up a methodology? Is the Quran a dictionary? Please I ask not in a mean way but in a nice way. Hit the books and analyes your ideas.
Peace,
Yes exactly so now im even more confused. I think before arguing with each other.
I think the sane thing to do is debate on the words so if we all agree with what the words mean then we can go from there.1424 Have you not seen how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the sky.
1426 And the example of a bad word is like a tree which has been uprooted from the surface of the Earth, it has nowhere to settle.The real words are going to be clear.
peace -
salam l. hu. it is very disrespectful not to read what a person posts then to argue with them. hit the books yourself, the right books, not the wrong books. i wrote
This is the problem I have with your methodology
to which you reply
If etymology be the rule
i did not say etymology, i said methodology. why do you have a problem staying on the issue?
you then claim
Also your claim is wrong that hijazi arabic came from hebrew and aramiac. Please do not make such false claims, if you are truthful. You need to actully research. The claim you have made about hijazi arabic shows that you seriosly have not research this.
if you persist in demonstrating a lack of an ability to comprehend or research, you are lost. a simple search would have prevented you from making your ridiculous statements.
http//www.omniglot.com/writing/arabic.htmThe Arabic script evolved from the Nabataean Aramaic script. It has been used since the 4th century AD, but the earliest document, an inscription in Arabic, Syriac and Greek, dates from 512 AD... Arabic has also been written with the Hebrew, Syriac and Latin scripts.
i suggest you dispense with your irrelevant preoccupation with the greek language and roman practices. the quran is in large part its own dictionary, and the words that you cant find defined in the quran, you can find defined in the torah and injeel. i rely upon allah for my definitions, not error ridden claims of human beings.
allah is the teacher.
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I was not point by point replying to your post. You need to learn how to read. Also etyomology is your methodology. You said "the only way to strip out the colloquialisms, and be true to the actual root origin of the word, is to know the root origin of the word. unless you grasp and implement this method, you will mislead yourself into a lack of understanding, and go down the wrong path. why would you want to go down the wrong path". Thats your methodology. So dont claim i am not on the issue.
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salam l.hu. if you lack the intellectual skill to respond point by point to a post, you should find some other pastime.
if you cannot comprehend, that my criticism of your methodology, resorting to fallible dictionaries and lexicons, is not connected your alleged observation that i use etymology, then more so you need another pastime.
allah is the truth.
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I give up. People wont listen to reason.
Some people won't listen to reason, specially if it doesn't inflate their "male" delusions of having God in collusion with them. Some even think they know Arabic and then make ridiculous elementary mistakes in spite of it.
Take it on stride, L. hu, finally one knows not to expect what is not to be expected.
Salaam
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2229 A divorce may be twice, whereupon the marriage must either be resumed in fairness or dissolved in a goodly manner. And it is not lawful for you to take back anything of what you have ever given to your wives unless both have cause to fear that they may not be able to keep within the bounds set by God hence, if you have cause to fear that the two may not be able to keep within the bounds set by God, there shall be no sin upon either of them for what the wife may give up in order to free herself. These are the bounds set by God; do not, then, transgress them for they who transgress the bounds set by God-it is they, they who are evildoers!
Doesn't it say that she can divorce, in the above verse?
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salam l.hu. if you lack the intellectual skill to respond point by point to a post, you should find some other pastime.
if you cannot comprehend, that my criticism of your methodology, resorting to fallible dictionaries and lexicons, is not connected your alleged observation that i use etymology, then more so you need another pastime.
allah is the truth.
Maybe you need to spend your past and futuretime searching for the reason behind your methodolgy as you lack most sense, including common sense and the sense of justice.
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salam farida. i have seen your sense on other threads, nonsense.
justice, is allah's judgment wherein there is no error. only the unjust dispute, rant, and rage aginst the judgment of allah. i recall you ranting and raging when reminded of the judgment of allah. go your way.
allah is the truth.
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salam farida. i have seen your sense on other threads, nonsense.
allah is the truth.
May I remind you that your testimony, is rejected and you're due to receive 100 lashes for falsely accussing a beleiving woman of adultery.
justice, is allah's judgment wherein there is no error. only the unjust dispute, rant, and rage aginst the judgment of allah. i recall you ranting and raging when reminded of the judgment of allah. go your way.
Of course only the unjust dispute and you are among one of the most unjust that I have come across.
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May I remind you that your testimony, is rejected and you're due to receive 100 lashes for falsely accussing a beleiving woman of adultery. Of course only the unjust dispute and you are among one of the most unjust that I have come across.
Are you for real?.... )
Women are free to choose and make their own decisions in life, so ofcourse their allowed to initiate a divorce...Im not trying to advocate it...infact in some circumstances..where children are involved i can only imagine how difficult it may be...but it depends on how serious her reasons are for the breakup...but same goes for a man initiating divorce.
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salam jasmin. i accused no one of adultery, nor was it false, therefore faridas reply was nonsense.
farida admitted that a woman had a nikah, not got a talaq, got a divorce, then remarried. this is not an accusation, this is faridas voluntary admission of adultery. then farida got furious at being exposed of adultery by her own words and slandered me, when in fact she had condemned herself.
for you to join faridas slander, would condemn both you and farida to a hundred lashes. may allah be the judge of the truth between us.
Women are free to choose and make their own decisions in life, so ofcourse their allowed to initiate a divorce
either post the verse of the quran that says women are free to choose, and allowed to intitiate a divorce, or be condemned as a liar.
allah is the best of those who judge.
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salam jasmin. i accused no one of adultery, nor was it false, therefore faridas reply was nonsense.
farida admitted that a woman had a nikah, not got a talaq, got a divorce, then remarried. this is not an accusation, this is faridas voluntary admission of adultery. then farida got furious at being exposed of adultery by her own words and slandered me, when in fact she had condemned herself.
for you to join faridas slander, would condemn both you and farida to a hundred lashes. may allah be the judge of the truth between us.
either post the verse of the quran that says women are free to choose, and allowed to intitiate a divorce, or be condemned as a liar.allah is the best of those who judge.
o o hypno
Woah!! relax! take a chill pill. No need to start the lashings...I think that one of your problems is that you don't seem to understand that women have equal rights as men and so in God's eyes they are equal. Is this not enough proof that they too can initiate a divorce..
2227 If they insist on the divorce, then God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
425 Whoever of you cannot afford to marry the acknowledging independent women, then from those young women whom you have contractual rights. God is more aware of your faith; you are equal to one another. You shall marry them with the permission of their family and give them their wage in kindness, to be protected, not for illicit sex or for taking lovers. If they become protected, then any of them who come with lewdness shall have half the punishment of what is for the independent women of the retribution. This is for those who fear hardship from among you. But if you are patient it is better for you, and God is Forgiver, Compassionate.12
Have a nice day Al Araf peace
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salam jasmin. i asked you to present a verse that says husbands and wives are equal, to support your claim. find a sentence that has these three words "husband" "wife" and "equal"
you are obviously new to quran study. have some humility, study and learn before making claims. check and doublecheck, never assume you have the answer. you have not read the quran. if you had bothered to read the quran you would know allah has placed husbands a degree above wives, and commanded that wives obey their husbands. for this reason your claims of equality are rejected by the word of allah in the quran.
dont give me rehashed pagan feminist politically correct western lines, this is quran study.
allah is the teacher.
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salam jasmin. i asked you to present a verse that says husbands and wives are equal, to support your claim. find a sentence that has these three words "husband" "wife" and "equal"
you are obviously new to quran study. have some humility, study and learn before making claims. check and doublecheck, never assume you have the answer. you have not read the quran. if you had bothered to read the quran you would know allah has placed husbands a degree above wives, and commanded that wives obey their husbands. for this reason your claims of equality are rejected by the word of allah in the quran.
dont give me rehashed pagan feminist politically correct western lines, this is quran study.
allah is the teacher.
Please do not patronize me. angel
I have been brought up a muslim my entire life, so no, i am not new to Quran study.
Unfortunatly, I have spent most of my life surrounded by people who share the same views and attitude like yourself...and when i questioned them...they seemed to have the same response.
Its like trying to programme loops...let alone understanding them....either way..you get to the same place you started...i may have better luck talking to a brick wall....anywaysThanks for the entertaining posts ;D I don't think i've laughed so much in quite a while!!
peace
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salam jasmin. i accused no one of adultery, nor was it false, therefore faridas reply was nonsense.
farida admitted that a woman had a nikah, not got a talaq, got a divorce, then remarried. this is not an accusation, this is faridas voluntary admission of adultery. then farida got furious at being exposed of adultery by her own words and slandered me, when in fact she had condemned herself.
for you to join faridas slander, would condemn both you and farida to a hundred lashes. may allah be the judge of the truth between us.
either post the verse of the quran that says women are free to choose, and allowed to intitiate a divorce, or be condemned as a liar.allah is the best of those who judge.
You and your ilk are true examples of hypocrites who thrive on slandering others to keep eyes off your own shortcomings and who, above all, have no faith in God. It?s the exposure to this world that is your big concern.
For me I do not care what you or anyone in this forum or this world, who know nothing about me, think of me. My main concern is my God, who knows me and, if I fall in the eyes of my God I am doomed. Being exposed may be the big thing for you, but for me I stand bare before my God who knows that you are a liar and a slanderer who, has dreamed up a story in mind which has no bearing on me.
I feel sorry for the women around you and especially the one who gave birth to you. In fact you being on this forum, all the time trying to control women, suggests that you are unable to control the women in your household and therefore you resort to controlling women on this forum. What a sad, lonely clown you are and I pray to God that no one ends up in same department of ?Jannah? that you hope to enter, doomed to spend an eternity in your obnoxious company. It is people like you who put people off of Islam, so on second thought maybe Jannah is out of the question for you Allahu Aalim. -
salam jasmin. i accused no one of adultery, nor was it false, therefore faridas reply was nonsense.
farida admitted that a woman had a nikah, not got a talaq, got a divorce, then remarried. this is not an accusation,
Salam,
Al Araf,
Obviously you are significantly confused on the meaning of talaq. Talaq means literally to quit, to be free from bond, go on one's way.
Say a couple has a Nikah then they go through the prescribed process in the Quran and ultimately decide to part ways and claim to have desolved the bond. They make this common knowledge live in seperate places etc.
This is talaq. Even if no one utters the actual word "talaq" in Arabic.
It does not matter if it was done in a civil/legal proceeding that we call divorce or not. Talaq is simply to go on ones way, quit, be free from bond etc.
In the case that Farida described, the "legal divorce" is also a talaq. And if the person remarried it WOULD NOT be adultery.
"Talaq" is not a magic word. It is an action. The "word" never has to be "pronounced." As many English translations would have you believe.
Salam,
Arnab