ARE WOMEN ALLOWED TO INITIATE DIVORCE?
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I was not point by point replying to your post. You need to learn how to read. Also etyomology is your methodology. You said "the only way to strip out the colloquialisms, and be true to the actual root origin of the word, is to know the root origin of the word. unless you grasp and implement this method, you will mislead yourself into a lack of understanding, and go down the wrong path. why would you want to go down the wrong path". Thats your methodology. So dont claim i am not on the issue.
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salam l.hu. if you lack the intellectual skill to respond point by point to a post, you should find some other pastime.
if you cannot comprehend, that my criticism of your methodology, resorting to fallible dictionaries and lexicons, is not connected your alleged observation that i use etymology, then more so you need another pastime.
allah is the truth.
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I give up. People wont listen to reason.
Some people won't listen to reason, specially if it doesn't inflate their "male" delusions of having God in collusion with them. Some even think they know Arabic and then make ridiculous elementary mistakes in spite of it.
Take it on stride, L. hu, finally one knows not to expect what is not to be expected.
Salaam
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2229 A divorce may be twice, whereupon the marriage must either be resumed in fairness or dissolved in a goodly manner. And it is not lawful for you to take back anything of what you have ever given to your wives unless both have cause to fear that they may not be able to keep within the bounds set by God hence, if you have cause to fear that the two may not be able to keep within the bounds set by God, there shall be no sin upon either of them for what the wife may give up in order to free herself. These are the bounds set by God; do not, then, transgress them for they who transgress the bounds set by God-it is they, they who are evildoers!
Doesn't it say that she can divorce, in the above verse?
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salam l.hu. if you lack the intellectual skill to respond point by point to a post, you should find some other pastime.
if you cannot comprehend, that my criticism of your methodology, resorting to fallible dictionaries and lexicons, is not connected your alleged observation that i use etymology, then more so you need another pastime.
allah is the truth.
Maybe you need to spend your past and futuretime searching for the reason behind your methodolgy as you lack most sense, including common sense and the sense of justice.
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salam farida. i have seen your sense on other threads, nonsense.
justice, is allah's judgment wherein there is no error. only the unjust dispute, rant, and rage aginst the judgment of allah. i recall you ranting and raging when reminded of the judgment of allah. go your way.
allah is the truth.
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salam farida. i have seen your sense on other threads, nonsense.
allah is the truth.
May I remind you that your testimony, is rejected and you're due to receive 100 lashes for falsely accussing a beleiving woman of adultery.
justice, is allah's judgment wherein there is no error. only the unjust dispute, rant, and rage aginst the judgment of allah. i recall you ranting and raging when reminded of the judgment of allah. go your way.
Of course only the unjust dispute and you are among one of the most unjust that I have come across.
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May I remind you that your testimony, is rejected and you're due to receive 100 lashes for falsely accussing a beleiving woman of adultery. Of course only the unjust dispute and you are among one of the most unjust that I have come across.
Are you for real?.... )
Women are free to choose and make their own decisions in life, so ofcourse their allowed to initiate a divorce...Im not trying to advocate it...infact in some circumstances..where children are involved i can only imagine how difficult it may be...but it depends on how serious her reasons are for the breakup...but same goes for a man initiating divorce.
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salam jasmin. i accused no one of adultery, nor was it false, therefore faridas reply was nonsense.
farida admitted that a woman had a nikah, not got a talaq, got a divorce, then remarried. this is not an accusation, this is faridas voluntary admission of adultery. then farida got furious at being exposed of adultery by her own words and slandered me, when in fact she had condemned herself.
for you to join faridas slander, would condemn both you and farida to a hundred lashes. may allah be the judge of the truth between us.
Women are free to choose and make their own decisions in life, so ofcourse their allowed to initiate a divorce
either post the verse of the quran that says women are free to choose, and allowed to intitiate a divorce, or be condemned as a liar.
allah is the best of those who judge.
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salam jasmin. i accused no one of adultery, nor was it false, therefore faridas reply was nonsense.
farida admitted that a woman had a nikah, not got a talaq, got a divorce, then remarried. this is not an accusation, this is faridas voluntary admission of adultery. then farida got furious at being exposed of adultery by her own words and slandered me, when in fact she had condemned herself.
for you to join faridas slander, would condemn both you and farida to a hundred lashes. may allah be the judge of the truth between us.
either post the verse of the quran that says women are free to choose, and allowed to intitiate a divorce, or be condemned as a liar.allah is the best of those who judge.
o o hypno
Woah!! relax! take a chill pill. No need to start the lashings...I think that one of your problems is that you don't seem to understand that women have equal rights as men and so in God's eyes they are equal. Is this not enough proof that they too can initiate a divorce..
2227 If they insist on the divorce, then God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
425 Whoever of you cannot afford to marry the acknowledging independent women, then from those young women whom you have contractual rights. God is more aware of your faith; you are equal to one another. You shall marry them with the permission of their family and give them their wage in kindness, to be protected, not for illicit sex or for taking lovers. If they become protected, then any of them who come with lewdness shall have half the punishment of what is for the independent women of the retribution. This is for those who fear hardship from among you. But if you are patient it is better for you, and God is Forgiver, Compassionate.12
Have a nice day Al Araf peace
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salam jasmin. i asked you to present a verse that says husbands and wives are equal, to support your claim. find a sentence that has these three words "husband" "wife" and "equal"
you are obviously new to quran study. have some humility, study and learn before making claims. check and doublecheck, never assume you have the answer. you have not read the quran. if you had bothered to read the quran you would know allah has placed husbands a degree above wives, and commanded that wives obey their husbands. for this reason your claims of equality are rejected by the word of allah in the quran.
dont give me rehashed pagan feminist politically correct western lines, this is quran study.
allah is the teacher.
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salam jasmin. i asked you to present a verse that says husbands and wives are equal, to support your claim. find a sentence that has these three words "husband" "wife" and "equal"
you are obviously new to quran study. have some humility, study and learn before making claims. check and doublecheck, never assume you have the answer. you have not read the quran. if you had bothered to read the quran you would know allah has placed husbands a degree above wives, and commanded that wives obey their husbands. for this reason your claims of equality are rejected by the word of allah in the quran.
dont give me rehashed pagan feminist politically correct western lines, this is quran study.
allah is the teacher.
Please do not patronize me. angel
I have been brought up a muslim my entire life, so no, i am not new to Quran study.
Unfortunatly, I have spent most of my life surrounded by people who share the same views and attitude like yourself...and when i questioned them...they seemed to have the same response.
Its like trying to programme loops...let alone understanding them....either way..you get to the same place you started...i may have better luck talking to a brick wall....anywaysThanks for the entertaining posts ;D I don't think i've laughed so much in quite a while!!
peace
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salam jasmin. i accused no one of adultery, nor was it false, therefore faridas reply was nonsense.
farida admitted that a woman had a nikah, not got a talaq, got a divorce, then remarried. this is not an accusation, this is faridas voluntary admission of adultery. then farida got furious at being exposed of adultery by her own words and slandered me, when in fact she had condemned herself.
for you to join faridas slander, would condemn both you and farida to a hundred lashes. may allah be the judge of the truth between us.
either post the verse of the quran that says women are free to choose, and allowed to intitiate a divorce, or be condemned as a liar.allah is the best of those who judge.
You and your ilk are true examples of hypocrites who thrive on slandering others to keep eyes off your own shortcomings and who, above all, have no faith in God. It?s the exposure to this world that is your big concern.
For me I do not care what you or anyone in this forum or this world, who know nothing about me, think of me. My main concern is my God, who knows me and, if I fall in the eyes of my God I am doomed. Being exposed may be the big thing for you, but for me I stand bare before my God who knows that you are a liar and a slanderer who, has dreamed up a story in mind which has no bearing on me.
I feel sorry for the women around you and especially the one who gave birth to you. In fact you being on this forum, all the time trying to control women, suggests that you are unable to control the women in your household and therefore you resort to controlling women on this forum. What a sad, lonely clown you are and I pray to God that no one ends up in same department of ?Jannah? that you hope to enter, doomed to spend an eternity in your obnoxious company. It is people like you who put people off of Islam, so on second thought maybe Jannah is out of the question for you Allahu Aalim. -
salam jasmin. i accused no one of adultery, nor was it false, therefore faridas reply was nonsense.
farida admitted that a woman had a nikah, not got a talaq, got a divorce, then remarried. this is not an accusation,
Salam,
Al Araf,
Obviously you are significantly confused on the meaning of talaq. Talaq means literally to quit, to be free from bond, go on one's way.
Say a couple has a Nikah then they go through the prescribed process in the Quran and ultimately decide to part ways and claim to have desolved the bond. They make this common knowledge live in seperate places etc.
This is talaq. Even if no one utters the actual word "talaq" in Arabic.
It does not matter if it was done in a civil/legal proceeding that we call divorce or not. Talaq is simply to go on ones way, quit, be free from bond etc.
In the case that Farida described, the "legal divorce" is also a talaq. And if the person remarried it WOULD NOT be adultery.
"Talaq" is not a magic word. It is an action. The "word" never has to be "pronounced." As many English translations would have you believe.
Salam,
Arnab -
The "events" to which Farida an Alaraf are referring are there to consult in the forum, can't remember the thread, and Al Araf really did slander and blunder. He really went way beyond, I won't say decency, that he had already done, but beyond wild unbounded fantasy.
I really don't think that important, and I also think that the best way out of tyredness and excess laughing with that person is just to ignore what he (I suppose it is a he) writes, but the point is that I do remember the whole exchange and I want to state that Farida is not exagerating or deviating a bit from truth.
Nevermind, what that person writes is sick, but may be a good thing in that it helps to restate what the Qur'an tenets are not.
Salaam
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The "events" to which Farida an Alaraf are referring are there to consult in the forum, can't remember the thread, and Al Araf really did slander and blunder. He really went way beyond, I won't say decency, that he had already done, but beyond wild unbounded fantasy.
I really don't think that important, and I also think that the best way out of tyredness and excess laughing with that person is just to ignore what he (I suppose it is a he) writes, but the point is that I do remember the whole exchange and I want to state that Farida is not exagerating or deviating a bit from truth.
Nevermind, what that person writes is sick, but may be a good thing in that it helps to restate what the Qur'an tenets are not.
Salaam
Salaam Huruf,
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596857.15
You can recap, what happened in the link above, but I think I would share some more information about my friend whose husband walked out on her last December.
Last week I heard from her husband who had now left his third wife too as things hadn?t worked out between them. He has realised that he has done wrong to his wife (my friend) but can see no going back to her. Sadly he has been diagnosed with Skeletal Cancer. I felt really sorry for him, as he is now on his own and getting treatment for his cancer every three months with no one by his bedside. I knew him well and they were, in many respects, a good couple, but it is on the encouragement from the likes of A_A that a man doesn?t not have to think of his responsibility towards his wife/ves and he is not answerable to anyone if he walks out on them.
This is what A_A wrote ?If the gentleman had married one woman, went on to marry another woman, then married a third woman, all three without giving any one of them a talaq, this gentleman is well within the hudood, he has a right accorded to him by Allah to have more than one wife. To speak ill of his conduct is gheebat, his conduct is that of a momin.?
Now, within a year of this incident, my friend has learned to manage on her own and is quite comfortable by herself, but look who lost out in the end.peace
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Salaam Huruf,
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596857.15
You can recap, what happened in the link above, but I think I would share some more information about my friend whose husband walked out on her last December.
Last week I heard from her husband who had now left his third wife too as things hadn?t worked out between them. He has realised that he has done wrong to his wife (my friend) but can see no going back to her. Sadly he has been diagnosed with Skeletal Cancer. I felt really sorry for him, as he is now on his own and getting treatment for his cancer every three months with no one by his bedside. I knew him well and they were, in many respects, a good couple, but it is on the encouragement from the likes of A_A that a man doesn?t not have to think of his responsibility towards his wife/ves and he is not answerable to anyone if he walks out on them.
This is what A_A wrote ?If the gentleman had married one woman, went on to marry another woman, then married a third woman, all three without giving any one of them a talaq, this gentleman is well within the hudood, he has a right accorded to him by Allah to have more than one wife. To speak ill of his conduct is gheebat, his conduct is that of a momin.?
Now, within a year of this incident, my friend has learned to manage on her own and is quite comfortable by herself, but look who lost out in the end.peace
elektro That is what i said that verse is widely abused by Mohammadens
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salam arnab. you display a characteristics common to new readers of the quran. cut/copy/pasting large sections of dictionaries and lexicons, do not demonstrate depth of study or knowledge, all it demonstrates is computer skills. taking one word out of a dictionary, because it suits your motives, refusing to study the implications of its use, is not quran study.
let me begin with your claim that nisa is not a woman, but simply a person delayed. fahad examined the implications for the claim it means a person delayed, and produced a list of verses that are reduced to incomprehensibility. because your definition reduces verses to incomprehensible, your definition cannot be correct. one verse in particular defies your definition and there is no way around it.
Quran 2222.
men do not menstruate, only women menstruate. this verse says the nisa menstruate. reasonably it is impossible that nisa are men. reasonably nisa can only mean women.
now you throw another random word as a definition for talaq, because it suits your motives, refusing to study the implications of its use. the result is an another incomprehensible.
you claim that talaq means to go on ones way, quit, be free from bond etc.. without studying the implications of these uses in the quran. you present these multiple definitions, not because you know what talaq means, but because you do not know what it means, therefore throwing multiple words from cut/copy/paste is your solution.
let us examine your implication that a woman who has a nikah with a man is as you claim, free to go on ones way, quit, or simply to be free from bond. this is not a novel issue, allah has already issued a judgment with regard to this claim.
Quran 543.
allah commands us to examine the torah for his judgments, and those who turn away are not believers. therefore i turn to the torah as he commands. what does the torah say regarding your claims that a wife may consider herself free to go on her way, quit, or simply be free from bond.
"speak unto the children of israel, and say unto them, if any man's wife go aside and commit a tresspass against him" Torah, Numbers 511
"when the woman drinks the water, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, the curse bearing water shall enter her body to poison her, and her belly shall swell, and her sexual organs shall rupture the woman will be a curse among her people" Torah, Numbers 527
"this is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled" Torah, Numbers 528
any wife who claims she may go aside from her husband, i give her this bitter water to drink. may allah issue and enforce his judgments.