Beating wife theory is negated by Qur'aan=4:34
-
What's the need for (lightly) between brackets? Because he knows very well what "dharaba" alone means. Could as well translate it as "kill them softly".
You do not have a mind of your own? Just quote hadith through others, and quote others who use hadith?
This verse showed your true colours.Peace
- ( 1 / 1400
to beat, strike, hit; to knock, punch; to slap, flap; to tap
Regards
- ( 1 / 1400
-
I'm sorry, but I do not see the need for violence at all
No violence involved. There are so many meanings of "DaRaBa" which is the root of the word used in the verse.
-
peace QS,
Since I pointed it out exactly for you, please point it out exactly for me. Link to pdf page and tell me where, so there is no confusion.
Thanks.
Peace
Exactly from the very beginning from where the word "Dharaba" starts.
Page 1777 3rd Column
Regards -
Peace
- ( 1 / 1400
to beat, strike, hit; to knock, punch; to slap, flap; to tap
Regards
You are so helpless and bankrupt to search for a word from the qur'aan in al-Muhaddith dictionary. Who are you fooling? Why don't you search it directly in Webster, Hans Wehr or al-Mawrid? These three dictionaries, among other technical ones, are referred to in this only online dictionary! It's a contemporary dictionary, and it even says that its files have not been verified against the original contents in other books/dictionaries!
You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to cheat the others just because you do not want to admit to your ignorance.
- ( 1 / 1400
-
Yes, it says "beat", but is there an example of it being used in a sentence without saying what/where/how/etc. Is the example you gave earlier (shown below) the only example you could find?
You are right. In Grand Qur'aan there is no such sentence, in all 58 occurences of words made from this Root.
-
You are right. In Grand Qur'aan there is no such sentence, in all 58 occurences of words made from this Root.
Not because it is used once does that mean it must have a derivative meaning. It could be used once with a unique meaning.
The problem here is that the word 'idribuhum', with the word 'ihjuruhuna' and '3izohuna' just before it, makes it most probably a corporeal punishemnt and therefore NOT
-
darb el amthal which is covered by the word 'admonish them'.
-
darb 3anhom ie. to leave because that is covered by the word 'ihjuruhuna- leave them'.
So it is natural to say 'idribuhuna' means beat becaue you are narrowed to this meaning and not because you are evil and want to beat the hell out of your wife.
Peace,
Rami
-
-
peace,
Yes, it says "beat", but is there an example of it being used in a sentence without saying what/where/how/etc. Is the example you gave earlier (shown below) the only example you could find?
It is a very simple question I am asking you.
Peace
The answer is in the example which I quoted .Please translate it .
Would you put here what Lane's lexicon says about dharaba just I put them back in the post.Just first two or three sentences.
Regards -
Peace all,
And those (from) whom
you fear
so the treatment starts before nushuz or after it?
-
You are so helpless and bankrupt to search for a word from the qur'aan in al-Muhaddith dictionary. Who are you fooling? Why don't you search it directly in Webster, Hans Wehr or al-Mawrid? These three dictionaries, among other technical ones, are referred to in this only online dictionary! It's a contemporary dictionary, and it even says that its files have not been verified against the original contents in other books/dictionaries!
You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to cheat the others just because you do not want to admit to your ignorance.
Peace
Al-Mawrid Page 710 19th Edition
Under "Dharaba" it has also given the meaning of "to tap".
Regards -
I read bits of it. but show me a verse in the bible where it says for a husband to slap his wife? and I willturn away. come on somebody show me a verse that it says Husbands slap your wifes if she disobeys. if you cannot find one then it is mans theory not God's. Men who do this should be put behind bars, and he will probally get a bashing in prison 10 fold anyway now that is vengence oh and Vengence is from God too now that will be worse.
I will give you some sexist verses
"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says" (I Corinthians 14 34). "For a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man is not from woman, but woman from man. Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man" (I Corinthians 116-9). "Let a women learn in silence with all submission. And do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless, she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love and holiness, with self-control" (I Timothy 211- 15).
-
Peace
Al-Mawrid Page 710 19th Edition
Under "Dharaba" it has also given the meaning of "to tap".
Regardswhatever
You are hopeless...
Of course you do not know - although I already mentioned it - that al Mawrid is one of the dictionaries " al Muhaddith" is based on.
These English/Arabic/English dictionaries are for contemporary translations; useless for old Arabic or original meanings.
Next time, since your intellect is deteriorating as I see, quote a colloquial Arabic dictionary, or even a news broadcaster. -
Peace Samia,
Is it possible that "idhriboohunna" in 434 can mean "prevent/hinder them" linguistically and contextually? Fear "nushuz" obviously means nushuz has not been committed yet and the remedies have to be pre-emptive. How can someone beat another for something that has not even been committed yet? Logically and contextually "prevent/hinder them" makes sense as a pre-emptive remedy for fear of nushuz.
If you fear your child will indulge in drugs then you should beat the child even before the child takes drugs. How nonsensical would that be. It will however make sense to prevent/hinder the child from doing drugs. 434 is similar in that nushuz is being feared and not actually committed yet.
-
Peace Samia,
Is it possible that "idhriboohunna" in 434 can mean "prevent/hinder them" linguistically and contextually? Fear "nushuz" obviously means nushuz has not been committed yet and the remedies have to be pre-emptive. How can someone beat another for something that has not even been committed yet? Logically and contextually "prevent/hinder them" makes sense as a pre-emptive remedy for fear of nushuz.
If you fear your child will indulge in drugs then you should beat the child even before the child takes drugs. How nonsensical would that be. It will however make sense to prevent/hinder the child from doing drugs. 434 is similar in that nushuz is being feared and not actually committed yet.
Interesting point, but what about the other methods already mentioned (ie. address the issue politely, etc.)?
Also, you say it means "prevent/hinder them" - how? from what?
I like the interpretation "admonish them with more examples/punish them otherwise, etc.""Seperate them" would only be possible in a polygamous marriage. "Seperate from them" would not make sense, since right after that it says "if they obey you, do not transgress/seek a way against them".
-
Peace all,
And those (from) whom
you fear
so the treatment starts before nushuz or after it?
Before the proposed actions is "Fa" which reflects the relationship of cause and effect. When there is cause and subsequent is the effect/result then in between "fa" is placed. And there is nothing of the sort what some call "pre-emptive". What is said is that whose "Nushooz" are making you fearful/are causing you fear then in that case do this and that.
And those wives whose untoward/inappropriate conduct is making/makes you fearful/afraid
then for this reason politely and lovingly advise such of them,
and distance/shift them away from yourselves inside the bed rooms
and you people make them surfaced/evident/move them out from the bed rooms .
The ONLY peculiar feature that makes the relations of wife and husband distinct from all other relationships is the fact known to everyone that both do sex in the bed room. But this is never pronounced orally that we or the husband never says orallay that I...... The moment wife is moved out of the bed room he is telling loudly without use of words that both are no more doing any sex, the primary distinction of their relationship. The next step advised to be taken also rebuts the theory of beating propounded by tradition/hadith mongers.
The by design/willfully breaking of sexual relationship by a husband is bound to eventually break the marriage, therefore, others are asked to intervene the moment a husband is moved out his wife from the bed room it is like announcing with the beat of durm that he is discontinued sexual relationship with her.
-
Peace
Very strange ,I have given the Sura Name . Cannot you read it ??
RegardsYes, you have given the chapter name in arabic! This is an english-speaking/international forum. At least provide people with the chapter and verse NUMBER.
Thanks.
-
Before the proposed actions is "Fa" which reflects the relationship of cause and effect. When there is cause and subsequent is the effect/result then in between "fa" is placed. And there is nothing of the sort what some call "pre-emptive". What is said is that whose "Nushooz" are making you fearful/are causing you fear then in that case do this and that.
yes, that makes sense. peace
-
and you people make them surfaced/evident/move them out from the bed rooms .
bravo bravo
This is the correct explanation of the word, especially when we compare the actions taken before (advise them, keep away from their beds), which are confined to the home/done in the privacy of the house; and the action taken after taking the case to the court/arbitrators.I slightly differ in my understanding of this part
and distance/shift them away from yourselves inside the bed rooms
You do not shift them away, you stay away from them. This is not a "punishment" to her in as much as a punishment to him. In fact it's not a punishment at all, but a test for the husband to see how life would be away from her/her intimacy; maby then he will see the bright side (by missing it) and then find that it is not so difficult to put up with her nushuuz.
-
I would like to draw the attention to the fact that these wives are not the dependent wives, but these are the ones who support the husband. It's interesting to see that the verse gives two examples of females in this verse. This is normal in the qur'aan (6610-12)
6610Allah citeth an example for those who disbelieve the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot, who were under two of Our righteous slaves yet betrayed them so that they (the husbands) availed them naught against Allah and it was said (unto them) Enter the Fire along with those who enter.
6611And Allah citeth an example for those who believe the wife of Pharaoh when she said My Lord! Build for me a home with thee in the Garden, and deliver me from Pharaoh and his work, and deliver me from evil-doing folk;
6612And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefor We breathed therein something of Our Spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient.
The examples of the two women in this verse are examples of "rijal" women who are bread winners. I do not see any meaning in giving example of those you support. The qur'aan does not describe them except as vulnerable. Nothing about their manners or faith. The description is always for active people.
The first kind are ( / the good doers are pious, keeping the secret) the secret that they are supporting the husband. This throws a shadow on the meaning of "nushuz arrogance/rising abnormally). This when the wife starts bragging and boasting about how much she spends and does not keep the secret.
-
I would like to draw the attention to the fact that these wives are not the dependent wives, but these are the ones who support the husband. It's interesting to see that the verse gives two examples of females in this verse. This is normal in the qur'aan (6610-12)
6610Allah citeth an example for those who disbelieve the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot, who were under two of Our righteous slaves yet betrayed them so that they (the husbands) availed them naught against Allah and it was said (unto them) Enter the Fire along with those who enter.
6611And Allah citeth an example for those who believe the wife of Pharaoh when she said My Lord! Build for me a home with thee in the Garden, and deliver me from Pharaoh and his work, and deliver me from evil-doing folk;
6612And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefor We breathed therein something of Our Spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient.
The examples of the two women in this verse are examples of "rijal" women who are bread winners. I do not see any meaning in giving example of those you support. The qur'aan does not describe them except as vulnerable. Nothing about their manners or faith. The description is always for active people.
The first kind are ( / the good doers are pious, keeping the secret) the secret that they are supporting the husband. This throws a shadow on the meaning of "nushuz arrogance/rising abnormally). This when the wife starts bragging and boasting about how much she spends and does not keep the secret.
why a wife should keep this a secret that she is supporting her family?
