Beating wife theory is negated by Qur'aan=4:34
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Peace
I am not quoting Hadiths. I am quoting "Muhammad Asad".
Regardsyes that is not same, its different when you quote one of the most latest authorities.
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I am not quoting Hadiths.
Of course not...
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Is this supposed to be a response to my question?
How does "dharaba" become "punish"? Can you find such a meaning in classical arabic dictionaries?
The translator simply couldn't say "strike them/beat them up", because he will have to say which part of the body and with what, and even then, it will no more be "dharaba", but "latama", sakka", rafasa"...many many words. The meaning "strike/beat" does not stand for "dharaba" by itself.Salaam,
what do you think about 273 and 3793 in these verses there is no mention of any specific part of body
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat2_files/2_73.gif
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat37_files/37_93.gif
I havn't seen any example where darb mean "beat" without mentioning of "with what" so you seem right about that though.
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Salaam,
what do you think about 273 and 3793 in these verses there is no mention of any specific part of body
I havn't seen any example where darb mean "beat" without mentioning of "with what" so you seem right about that though.
That is truly a very interesting observation. This alone would prove that "idribuhunne" in 434 does not say "beat them".
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Most Christians believe in one God, they just get a little confused with this trinity thing (which, of course was not in the early Christian Church, was put there by the Church of Rome about 900 years ago)
Actually, that happened a bit less than 1700 years ago.
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Salaam,
what do you think about 273 and 3793 in these verses there is no mention of any specific part of body
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat2_files/2_73.gif
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat37_files/37_93.gif
I havn't seen any example where darb mean "beat" without mentioning of "with what" so you seem right about that though.
Peace ;
Brother ! your observation is not correct.It is not essential to describe the "weapon" with which to do "dharaba".Regards
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Which chapter number is that verse in?
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Peace ;
Brother ! your observation is not correct.It is not essential to describe the "weapon" with which to do "dharaba".Regards
yes here the part of body is mentioned. do you have any example where darb mean beat without the mention of "where" or "with what"?
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yes here the part of body is mentioned. do you have any example where darb mean beat without the mention of "where" or "with what"?
Peace
You need to mention only "Maf3ool Bihi " after the verb "Dharaba".If you mention "weapon" or not that is immaterial as in the verses I have given you as an example.
Seebavayh in his famous book "alkitab" gives the following example.-
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Regards
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Regards
Please bring such example from quran if you are truthful or accept your fault.
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Please bring such example from quran if you are truthful or accept your fault.
Peace
Arabic language existed before Quran was revealed. We need to know Arabic to understand Quran. No doubt Quran has used many words ,but not all the construction or verbs and structures are used by the Quran. 434 is very good example for it.Othewise Classical arabic examples can explain the Quranic constructions.It is the reason all scholars modren or old have been relying on the Classical Arabic literature.
Regards -
Peace ;
Brother ! your observation is not correct.It is not essential to describe the "weapon" with which to do "dharaba".Regards
It's at least either "with what" or "where". You can't have adhribu = strike/beat up without either one of these. here we have "where" fawqal a3naaq and banaan
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Peace
You need to mention only "Maf3ool Bihi " after the verb "Dharaba".If you mention "weapon" or not that is immaterial as in the verses I have given you as an example.
Seebavayh in his famous book "alkitab" gives the following example.-
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Regards
Why don't you bring the whole entry for the verb "dharaba"? Does this example show that "dharaba" means "beat up/strike"? I did not say it does not exist without mention of weapon or area, but what I said is that when it exists like in this example (no weapon no area ) it only means "beat with a sword/ a cane/ a whip = strike to kill. And "aldharb" is fighting in a battle. So this example simply means Abdullahi struck zaid (in a battle)/ killed zaid.
I am sure if you were able to find in Sibawayh something better than that, you would have brought it up. But if Alkhaleel -ibn Ahmed in his "kitabul 3ain" did not give this meaning of beating up; Sibaway wouldn't.
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Why don't you bring the whole entry for the verb "dharaba"? Does this example show that "dharaba" means "beat up/strike"? I did not say it does not exist without mention of weapon or area, but what I said is that when it exists like in this example (no weapon no area ) it only means "beat with a sword/ a cane/ a whip = strike to kill. And "aldharb" is fighting in a battle. So this example simply means Abdullahi struck zaid (in a battle)/ killed zaid.
I am sure if you were able to find in Sibawayh something better than that, you would have brought it up. But if Alkhaleel -ibn Ahmed in his "kitabul 3ain" did not give this meaning of beating up; Sibaway wouldn't.
Peace
004.034
YUSUFALI Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).Regards
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Peace
004.034
YUSUFALI Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).Regards
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.34m.gif
And if you husbands fear of their untoward/inappropriate conduct
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.34a.gif
then for reason of so happening politely and lovingly advise such of them in the first instance,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.34b.gif
and distance/shift them away from yourselves inside the bed rooms
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.34n.gif
and you people make them surfaced/evident/move them out from the bed rooms .He was not asked to beat up the dried up passage in the sea for them. He was asked to surface the dried up passage for them in the sea.
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peace QS,
Why do you ignore my question? Is it because it exposes your views to be false?
I assume the example you brought, as explained by sister Samia, is the best example you have of drb meaning strike without mentioning anything else (e.g., with what, where, how etc)? In this example it seems to imply killed. Therefore, it is not good evidence, it is fairly weak.
I think it is becoming clear why articles promoting "beat or strike" present very little information from Classical Arabic sources. It is clear that "beat" is an interpretation, at the very most it can be translated as "strike" but as we know this literally makes little sense (e.g. strike to kill, or strike once), hence they are forced to use other words, even though they do not exist as meanings in Classical Arabic, e.g. beat, punish etc. What is also becoming clear is that those who promote such a view are almost forced to due to the existance of Hadith on this topic. If they reject the "beat" meaning, this will force them to reject their Hadith, which they are unwilling to do.
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Peace
004.034
YUSUFALI Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).Regards
What's the need for (lightly) between brackets? Because he knows very well what "dharaba" alone means. Could as well translate it as "kill them softly".
You do not have a mind of your own? Just quote hadith through others, and quote others who use hadith?
This verse showed your true colours. -
peace QS,
Why do you ignore my question? Is it because it exposes your views to be false?
I assume the example you brought, as explained by sister Samia, is the best example you have of drb meaning strike without mentioning anything else (e.g., with what, where, how etc)? In this example it seems to imply killed. Therefore, it is not good evidence, it is fairly weak.
I think it is becoming clear why articles promoting "beat or strike" present very little information from Classical Arabic sources. It is clear that "beat" is an interpretation, at the very most it can be translated as "strike" but as we know this literally makes little sense (e.g. strike to kill, or strike once), hence they are forced to use other words, even though they do not exist as meanings in Classical Arabic, e.g. beat, punish etc. What is also becoming clear is that those who promote such a view are almost forced to due to the existance of Hadith on this topic. If they reject the "beat" meaning, this will force them to reject their Hadith, which they are unwilling to do.
Peace
Please consult Lane's Lexicon ,the very first entery in the start of the word "dharaba".
Regards
