Beating wife theory is negated by Qur'aan=4:34

Q_student

Which chapter number is that verse in?

Peace
Very strange ,I have given the Sura Name . Cannot you read it ??
Regards

Q_student

yes here the part of body is mentioned. do you have any example where darb mean beat without the mention of "where" or "with what"?

Peace
You need to mention only "Maf3ool Bihi " after the verb "Dharaba".If you mention "weapon" or not that is immaterial as in the verses I have given you as an example.
Seebavayh in his famous book "alkitab" gives the following example.

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Regards

unknownuser

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Regards

Please bring such example from quran if you are truthful or accept your fault.

Q_student

Please bring such example from quran if you are truthful or accept your fault.

Peace
Arabic language existed before Quran was revealed. We need to know Arabic to understand Quran. No doubt Quran has used many words ,but not all the construction or verbs and structures are used by the Quran. 434 is very good example for it.Othewise Classical arabic examples can explain the Quranic constructions.It is the reason all scholars modren or old have been relying on the Classical Arabic literature.
Regards

Samia

Peace ;
Brother ! your observation is not correct.It is not essential to describe the "weapon" with which to do "dharaba".

Regards

It's at least either "with what" or "where". You can't have adhribu = strike/beat up without either one of these. here we have "where" fawqal a3naaq and banaan

Samia

Peace
You need to mention only "Maf3ool Bihi " after the verb "Dharaba".If you mention "weapon" or not that is immaterial as in the verses I have given you as an example.
Seebavayh in his famous book "alkitab" gives the following example.

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Regards

Why don't you bring the whole entry for the verb "dharaba"? Does this example show that "dharaba" means "beat up/strike"? I did not say it does not exist without mention of weapon or area, but what I said is that when it exists like in this example (no weapon no area ) it only means "beat with a sword/ a cane/ a whip = strike to kill. And "aldharb" is fighting in a battle. So this example simply means Abdullahi struck zaid (in a battle)/ killed zaid.

I am sure if you were able to find in Sibawayh something better than that, you would have brought it up. But if Alkhaleel -ibn Ahmed in his "kitabul 3ain" did not give this meaning of beating up; Sibaway wouldn't.

Q_student

Why don't you bring the whole entry for the verb "dharaba"? Does this example show that "dharaba" means "beat up/strike"? I did not say it does not exist without mention of weapon or area, but what I said is that when it exists like in this example (no weapon no area ) it only means "beat with a sword/ a cane/ a whip = strike to kill. And "aldharb" is fighting in a battle. So this example simply means Abdullahi struck zaid (in a battle)/ killed zaid.

I am sure if you were able to find in Sibawayh something better than that, you would have brought it up. But if Alkhaleel -ibn Ahmed in his "kitabul 3ain" did not give this meaning of beating up; Sibaway wouldn't.

Peace
004.034
YUSUFALI Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Regards

Mazhar

Peace
004.034
YUSUFALI Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Regards

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.34m.gif
And if you husbands fear of their untoward/inappropriate conduct
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then for reason of so happening politely and lovingly advise such of them in the first instance,
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and distance/shift them away from yourselves inside the bed rooms
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and you people make them surfaced/evident/move them out from the bed rooms .

He was not asked to beat up the dried up passage in the sea for them. He was asked to surface the dried up passage for them in the sea.

Wakas

peace QS,

Why do you ignore my question? Is it because it exposes your views to be false?

I assume the example you brought, as explained by sister Samia, is the best example you have of drb meaning strike without mentioning anything else (e.g., with what, where, how etc)? In this example it seems to imply killed. Therefore, it is not good evidence, it is fairly weak.

I think it is becoming clear why articles promoting "beat or strike" present very little information from Classical Arabic sources. It is clear that "beat" is an interpretation, at the very most it can be translated as "strike" but as we know this literally makes little sense (e.g. strike to kill, or strike once), hence they are forced to use other words, even though they do not exist as meanings in Classical Arabic, e.g. beat, punish etc. What is also becoming clear is that those who promote such a view are almost forced to due to the existance of Hadith on this topic. If they reject the "beat" meaning, this will force them to reject their Hadith, which they are unwilling to do.

Samia

Peace
004.034
YUSUFALI Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Regards

What's the need for (lightly) between brackets? Because he knows very well what "dharaba" alone means. Could as well translate it as "kill them softly".
You do not have a mind of your own? Just quote hadith through others, and quote others who use hadith?
This verse showed your true colours.

Q_student

peace QS,

Why do you ignore my question? Is it because it exposes your views to be false?

I assume the example you brought, as explained by sister Samia, is the best example you have of drb meaning strike without mentioning anything else (e.g., with what, where, how etc)? In this example it seems to imply killed. Therefore, it is not good evidence, it is fairly weak.

I think it is becoming clear why articles promoting "beat or strike" present very little information from Classical Arabic sources. It is clear that "beat" is an interpretation, at the very most it can be translated as "strike" but as we know this literally makes little sense (e.g. strike to kill, or strike once), hence they are forced to use other words, even though they do not exist as meanings in Classical Arabic, e.g. beat, punish etc. What is also becoming clear is that those who promote such a view are almost forced to due to the existance of Hadith on this topic. If they reject the "beat" meaning, this will force them to reject their Hadith, which they are unwilling to do.

Peace
Please consult Lane's Lexicon ,the very first entery in the start of the word "dharaba".
Regards

Rev_John

I'm sorry, but I do not see the need for violence at all

Wakas

Peace
Please consult Lane's Lexicon ,the very first entery in the start of the word "dharaba".
Regards

peace QS,

Since I pointed it out exactly for you, please point it out exactly for me. Link to pdf page and tell me where, so there is no confusion.

Thanks.

Q_student

What's the need for (lightly) between brackets? Because he knows very well what "dharaba" alone means. Could as well translate it as "kill them softly".
You do not have a mind of your own? Just quote hadith through others, and quote others who use hadith?
This verse showed your true colours.

Peace

( 1 / 1400
to beat, strike, hit; to knock, punch; to slap, flap; to tap

Regards

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

I'm sorry, but I do not see the need for violence at all

No violence involved. There are so many meanings of "DaRaBa" which is the root of the word used in the verse.

Q_student

peace QS,

Since I pointed it out exactly for you, please point it out exactly for me. Link to pdf page and tell me where, so there is no confusion.

Thanks.

Peace
Exactly from the very beginning from where the word "Dharaba" starts.
Page 1777 3rd Column
Regards

Wakas

peace,

Yes, it says "beat", but is there an example of it being used in a sentence without saying what/where/how/etc. Is the example you gave earlier (shown below) the only example you could find?

.

It is a very simple question I am asking you.

Samia

Peace

( 1 / 1400
to beat, strike, hit; to knock, punch; to slap, flap; to tap

Regards

You are so helpless and bankrupt to search for a word from the qur'aan in al-Muhaddith dictionary. Who are you fooling? Why don't you search it directly in Webster, Hans Wehr or al-Mawrid? These three dictionaries, among other technical ones, are referred to in this only online dictionary! It's a contemporary dictionary, and it even says that its files have not been verified against the original contents in other books/dictionaries!

You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to cheat the others just because you do not want to admit to your ignorance.

Mazhar

Yes, it says "beat", but is there an example of it being used in a sentence without saying what/where/how/etc. Is the example you gave earlier (shown below) the only example you could find?

You are right. In Grand Qur'aan there is no such sentence, in all 58 occurences of words made from this Root.

Rami

You are right. In Grand Qur'aan there is no such sentence, in all 58 occurences of words made from this Root.

Not because it is used once does that mean it must have a derivative meaning. It could be used once with a unique meaning.

The problem here is that the word 'idribuhum', with the word 'ihjuruhuna' and '3izohuna' just before it, makes it most probably a corporeal punishemnt and therefore NOT

darb el amthal which is covered by the word 'admonish them'.
darb 3anhom ie. to leave because that is covered by the word 'ihjuruhuna- leave them'.

So it is natural to say 'idribuhuna' means beat becaue you are narrowed to this meaning and not because you are evil and want to beat the hell out of your wife.

Peace,

Rami