Has anyone ever accused you of "questioning the Qur'an"....
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Peace all,
Well the other night I think I had a productive conversation with my husband. During dinner he started talking about the 'signs of judgement day', as in the ones that are from the hadiths. But he was talking as if it's in the Qur'an.... I told him that #1, it's not in the Qur'an, and #2, why does it matter? Everyone is going to be judged someday.... I told him to find me some verses from the Qur'an about it, and instead he pulled up some websites. One happened to be a Qur'an-only based site (http//www.al-qiyamah.org/) and I started reading to him. That made him stop talking about it ... and then the conversation went off on a tangent, how Bukhari must have been so smart, how did he know these things would happen? I brought up the topic of intercession, and he said he doesn't believe in it. I said that it's a major belief of Sunni Islam - he said "I'm Sunni". P The next day I pulled out one of the hadiths from my Bukhari collection and read it to him. He didn't say anything.I also was arguing with him, he said that some verses in the Qur'an "cancel" each other other. I read him Muhammad Asad's footnote to the verse (which says that's an erroneous view). He believes that Christians and Jews are not going to paradise, only "Muslims". I also read him the verse where it addresses Christians and Jews who think they are the only ones going to paradise -and in that verse it says to provide proof from their religious books - I said to my husband 'if what you're saying is true, you should be able to find in the Qur'an something that says you need to believe in Prophet Muhammad or you don't go to paradise'. He said 'well, doesn't it say in the Qur'an what the shahada is?'. I said it's not in there as we say it (I read him 31.
He also doesn't think we can understand the Qur'an without the scholar's help. But he doesn't even try to read it himself in his own language. (
And then he keeps on accusing me of "questioning the Qur'an". BUT I'M NOT! Anyone get that when they discuss anything with anyone? I've also been accused of "going down the wrong path". ??? -
go slow, may God help you.
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I think you are a very good debator. Your husband, or your interlocutor in general, has to say something. Don't expect "ah, you are righ. Sorry, I do not read the qur'aan corretly". But in general, when you make up your point, don't corner them too much. Give them some space to think alone. And I think you made up your point very well.
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I said to my husband 'if what you're saying is true, you should be able to find in the Qur'an something that says you need to believe in Prophet Muhammad or you don't go to paradise'. He said 'well, doesn't it say in the Qur'an what the shahada is?'. I said it's not in there as we say it (I read him 31.
We become enthusiastic when we find a person overwhelmed or chained by hadith fabricators. And resultantly talk with reference to Qur'aan such things which might place us outside the fold of believers.
The BASIC requirement, pre-condition, prerequsite to start backward journey to paradise is to believe in Allah and His Messengers, all. Paradise is made only for those people who accept and believe in Allah and All His Messengers.
Anybody in whose hands Qur'aan has reached, if he refuses to believe in the Last Messenger, he is out from the list of eligibles for paradise. Believing in Messenger does not mean believing in what people keep attributing to him.
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Peace,
Respectfully.I get that all the time.
All is ay is this"I understand The Quran, i know The Quran, i follow The Quran, i pray according to how The Quran tells us and so on and on,", right, and i give them such lines where i don't include prophet Muhammad and hadith books and i am called kaffir, a Jew, on the wrong path, on a dangerous path, i get threats, they even run away from me, but they run away from me only when i mention God.One day we were tlaking about testimony of Faith - as seen in 318 - and when i didn't mention the prophet, they ran away .... are they blind?
Peace.
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Anybody in whose hands Qur'aan has reached, if he refuses to believe in the Last Messenger, he is out from the list of eligibles for paradise. Believing in Messenger does not mean believing in what people keep attributing to him.
Then what DOES believing in a messenger mean?
How do you understand this verse which is repeated three times in the qur'aan and contains no believing in "a messenger"569
Verily those who believe, and those who are Judaised, and the Sabians and the Nazarenes - whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and worketh righteously, no fear shall come on them, nor shall they grieve.
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My grand mother told me not to question the quran when I said that dogs are not haraam! And she said that she would show me the verse the next day...Apparantly the next day didn't come because my grandmother denied that she told me about showing the verse in the quran rotfl
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Sister,
What to say of those three verses, if we see things out of context, then scope becomes wider for people;
I did not ake it out of context. Now, where in the verse you quote, do you find (who believes in a messenger)?
This taken in solitude may absolve many to believe in any Book.
The answer to this is in the context of the verse I quoted
Say thou people of the Book! ye rest not on aught until ye establish the Taurat and the Injil and that which hath now been sent down unto you from your Lord. And that which hath been sent down unto thee will surely increase many of them in exorbitance and infidelity; so mourn thou not over and disbelieving people.
Again, no messenger, because it's not about messengers but the message.
Who is the messenger of the "Sabians"? What's their book? -
Peace
It seems to me that he is questioning the Quran not you. In the Quran, God tells us that it is complete, not to follow hadeeths etc yet it seems that he is questioning the Quran's authority and God's honesty.
Give him some time. When you have been brainwashed for so many years it is hard to break away from tradition. Give him a list of verses from the Quran and let him choose whether to accept them of reject them.
Regarding the signs of judgement day from outside the Quran, the prophet Mohammed couldn't tell the future according to the Quran...
God bless
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I think you are a very good debator. Your husband, or your interlocutor in general, has to say something. Don't expect "ah, you are righ. Sorry, I do not read the qur'aan corretly". But in general, when you make up your point, don't corner them too much. Give them some space to think alone. And I think you made up your point very well.
True, and I don't mind debating. ;D
Yes especially for him, I have to sort of back off after I make my point so he can digest what I'm saying.
Thanks. ) -
Peace
It seems to me that he is questioning the Quran not you. In the Quran, God tells us that it is complete, not to follow hadeeths etc yet it seems that he is questioning the Quran's authority and God's honesty.
Give him some time. When you have been brainwashed for so many years it is hard to break away from tradition. Give him a list of verses from the Quran and let him choose whether to accept them of reject them.
Regarding the signs of judgement day from outside the Quran, the prophet Mohammed couldn't tell the future according to the Quran...
God bless
Peace.
Yes, I'm totally not questioning the Qur'an! I think he's projecting my questioning the hadiths onto the Qur'an.
I can understand his line of thinking, as I was once there. I wasn't born and raised in a "Muslim" country with Muslim parents either, so he has almost 20 years more of being brainwashed than me.
Thanks for those verses, I'll look them up and make that a topic to discuss. -
O you the people of the Book, indeed our Messenger has come to you
He makes for you people manifestly evident and distinct much of what you people conceal from the Book and he ignores quite many of your concealments .
O you the people of the Book, indeed our Messenger has come to you
.......lest you could take the plea to advance "To us did not come from amongst the Pronouncer of Glad tidings nor Admonisher/Warner/Awakener". Hence/for this reason indeed the Pronouncer of Glad Tidings and Admonisher/Warner/Awakener has come to you people
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O you the people of the Book, indeed our Messenger has come to you
He makes for you people manifestly evident and distinct much of what you people conceal from the Book and he ignores quite many of your concealments .
O you the people of the Book, indeed our Messenger has come to you
.......lest you could take the plea to advance "To us did not come from amongst the Pronouncer of Glad tidings nor Admonisher/Warner/Awakener". Hence/for this reason indeed the Pronouncer of Glad Tidings and Admonisher/Warner/Awakener has come to you people
Whose explanation is that in the brackets, Mazhar?
519 O followers of the Bible! Now, after a long time during which no apostles have appeared, there has come unto you Our Apostle to make clear to you, lest you say, "No bearer of glad tidings has come unto us, nor any warner " for now there has come unto you a bearer of glad tidings and a warner -since God has the power to will anything.
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O you the people of the Book, indeed our Messenger has come to you
He makes for you people manifestly evident and distinct much of what you people conceal from the Book and he ignores quite many of your concealments .
Whose translation is this? Who inserted (you were waiing for) and (with Grand qur'aan) between brackets? And who translated as "our messenger"?
This verse clearly shows that means messge here. It is further described in the same verse as
O people of the book. Our message has reached you. A light from God and an explanatory book from God has reached you (515) -
Progressive Muslims
515 O people of the Scripture, Our messenger has come to you to clarify for you much of what you were hiding from the Scripture, and to pardon over much. A light has come to you from God and a clarifying Scripture.519 O people of the Scripture, Our messenger has come to clarify for you after a lack of messengers; so that you cannot say "No bearer of good news or warner has come to us;" for a bearer of good news and a warner has come to you; and God is capable of all things.
It is also said
Progressive Muslims
2462 The believers are those who believe in God and His messenger, -
It is also said
Progressive Muslims
2462 The believers are those who believe in God and His messenger,Peace,
I am frequently wrong and in this instance may very well be but it was my understanding that mumineen and muslimeen are two different things. Mumineen are held to a higher standard than Muslimeen. So in order to be a Muslim all that is required is to believe in God, the last day and do good works. The requirements for Mumin are more stringent. Anyone else?
GodBless!
Said -
569
Verily those who believe, and those who are Judaised, and the Sabians and the Nazarenes - whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and worketh righteously, no fear shall come on them, nor shall they grieve.
the above verse applies to those who believe in God and in all that has been revealed by Him to his messengers
Jews and Christians have to believe in quran and prophet Mohammad only then they can be considered on right path otherwise they are only in the opposition.
2135 And they say Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists
2136 Say We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
2137 If then they believe as you believe in Him, they are indeed on the right course, and if they turn back, then they are only in great opposition, so Allah will suffice you against them, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.