Monotheists
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Then why study Qur'an? To marvel at a mathematical miracle?
If I understand it correctly, I could walk off and go to the woods near my house.. build a fort, worship God alone and never touch another holy book my whole life and be expected to make it to heaven, if I cling to Tawheed and deeds of righteousness for the sake of God alone. Granted this is not the sort of thing I would do, but theoretically it holds.
)
Shaytan's advocate as it were.. I do enjoy the thoughts and opinions you have imparted to me over the last few days and hope to continue as such.
Basically yes. But why would you want to. If you want to worship God, even in the woods on your own, then you would want to know more, therefore you would read the Tanakh, Bible and Quran
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Basically yes. But why would you want to. If you want to worship God, even in the woods on your own, then you would want to know more, therefore you would read the Tanakh, Bible and Quran
Salaams Rashidala,
A jewel in the woods is worthless or rather doesn't do any wrk in the way of Allah.
A jewel on the edge of a blade digging the channel tunnel is worth far far more - as it is for the fulfillment of needs of many.Knowing all the books in the world is worthless unless we go out and DO the work.
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Salaams Rashidala,
Knowing all the books in the world is worthless unless we go out and DO the work.
peace
Good point, that is something I have said to reclusive monks, but their reply is always that they are doing the work, they are spending most of their time in prayer for the world and all mankind. I like to believe that all people do the work in there own way.
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Salaams Rashidala,
A jewel in the woods is worthless or rather doesn't do any wrk in the way of Allah.
A jewel on the edge of a blade digging the channel tunnel is worth far far more - as it is for the fulfillment of needs of many.Knowing all the books in the world is worthless unless we go out and DO the work.
bravo
Well said.
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I thank you progressive, for all your aide. It confirms my thoughts that one need only be a monotheist, a last day judgment believer and do deeds of righteousness for the sake of God alone to be among the winners.
There is a group of buddhists I know who are monotheists. Blending both buddhist philosophy and the ideal of One God Alone. I shall look them up and begin that new path.
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I thank you progressive, for all your aide. It confirms my thoughts that one need only be a monotheist, a last day judgment believer and do deeds of righteousness for the sake of God alone to be among the winners.
peace
There is a group of buddhists I know who are monotheists. Blending both buddhist philosophy and the ideal of One God Alone. I shall look them up and begin that new path.
Make sure you dont become an ascetic. It's against Quranic/Islamic teachings.
5727 Then, in succession, We followed them up with (other of) Our messengers. We caused them to be followed by Jesus son of Mary and gave him the Gospel. And We placed kindness and compassion in the hearts of those who followed him. As for monastic asceticism - We had never ordained it to them. They invented it themselves to seek God's approval. But then, they did not uphold the Injeel with right observance. And so those who truly believed among them, We gave them their reward. But, a great many of them have been drifting away.
187 We have adorned everything on earth, in order to test them, and thus distinguish those among them who are best in conduct.
I want to tell you something - whichever way you choose, dont become a mystic or live an ascetic life - it is totally against Quranic teachings. Always work righteousness - that's better than ascetism and you'll do God, yourself and others a bigger favor. peace
Peace
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I thank you progressive, for all your aide. It confirms my thoughts that one need only be a monotheist, a last day judgment believer and do deeds of righteousness for the sake of God alone to be among the winners.
There is a group of buddhists I know who are monotheists. Blending both buddhist philosophy and the ideal of One God Alone. I shall look them up and begin that new path.
Bro Rashidala,
Interesting you brought up the buddhists.. I really found them the 'less sectarian' from among the sectarians..
Unlike Christianism and Sunniism, Buddhism stressed on ACT and THOUGHT and NOT FAITH..
RIGHT ACT and RIGHT THOUGHT will bring you to 'liberation' (NIBBANA)..
The law of "karma" is also stressed out, basically the law of karma is
you'll get what you deserves a.k.a you reap what you sow.
And that's why RIGHT ACT is very important..The 'picture of God' in Buddhism is 'obscure', they picture "God" as "The Universal Force" and not as some "Being In Heaven"..
The same 'theme' is also being applied on eastern religion / philosophy.. (e.g. Taoism etc..)
Thus you can find 'God', 'within yourself' and 'within everything' through contemplation / meditating..Salam / Peace
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Peace Rashidala,
3122 Those who submit completely to GOD, while leading a righteous life, have gotten hold of the strongest bond. To God all matters will return.
If you keep with the teachings of the Quran and submit to God alone it should not be a problem if you join a Buddhist group.
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progressive,
do not paint yourself into a philosophical corner.. lol.
you admitted, if a person believes in God, does deeds of righteousness for his sake and believes in a last day.. then he is among the winners. The Qur'an, as I understand it, backs up this point.
do not try and now say "well, you still need the Qur'an." That negates your admonition of the fact of the bare minimum requirements.
I expect more of you
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Jafar,
thank you for the reply. I had said, I admired a group of local buddhists. Not that I myself was new to Buddhism.
I have studied the buddha-dharma for over twelve years now primarily solitary as God is not the point of buddhist practice. This group to which I refer, use the teaching of Zen in the aspect of refusing to define God (much like orthodox Judaism) the statement is
"This mysterious Mind," says Kwei Fung (Kei-ho), "is higher than the highest, deeper than the deepest, limitless in all directions. There is no centre in it. No distinction of east and west, and above and below. Is it empty? Yes, but not empty like space. Has it a form? Yes, but has no form dependent on another for its existence. Is it intelligent? Yes, but not intelligent like your mind. Is it non-intelligent? Yes, but not non-intelligent like trees and stone. Is it conscious? Yes, but not conscious like you when waking. Is it bright? Yes, but not bright like the sun or the moon."
This I can get behind and shall resume my practice of the dharma with the religious undertone of God alone.
Buddha himself never taught on God.. he maintained what they called 'noble silence.' Most teachers I have had consider Buddhism a philosophy and not a religion as it seems the Buddha himself intended it to be. So, I have always believed there is the philosophy of the buddha-dharma and one can meld their own religious practice in tantum with it.
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progressive,
do not paint yourself into a philosophical corner.. lol.
you admitted, if a person believes in God, does deeds of righteousness for his sake and believes in a last day.. then he is among the winners. The Qur'an, as I understand it, backs up this point.
do not try and now say "well, you still need the Qur'an." That negates your admonition of the fact of the bare minimum requirements.
I expect more of you )
laugh
4137 Those who acknowledge, then reject, then acknowledge, then reject, then they increase in rejection; God was neither to forgive them nor to guide them to the path.
4138 Give news to the hypocrites that they will have a painful retribution.
4140 It has been sent down to you in the book, that when you hear God's signs being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the ingrates in hell all together.
4143 They are swaying in-between, belonging neither to this group nor to that group. Whomever God will misguide, you will not find for him a way.
386 How would God guide a people who have rejected after acknowledging and they witnessed that the messenger was true, and the clear evidences had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
Therefore, I wouldnt take it too lightly, rashidala, nothing against you. If you want to acknowledge the Quran and then reject, then it's your decision, however, this is not very wise. Of course the minimum things are included in 262, but why would you want to turn aways from Islam. What makes you so curious to reject the Quran or not to follow it at all?
hmmAs I have said before, if you stick to the teachings of the Quran, there should be no problem at all. However, we must remember of course
2256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects the transgressors, and acknowledges God, has grasped the firm branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.
I guess being a monotheist is enough, however, rejecting the Quran/stopping to follow it is not wise.
So you joining the monotheist Buddhist group shoul dbe fine, IF you dont reject/stop to follow the teachings of the Quran/dont reject the Quran.
Hope my point is clearer now.
Peace
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laugh
4137 Those who acknowledge, then reject, then acknowledge, then reject, then they increase in rejection; God was neither to forgive them nor to guide them to the path.
4138 Give news to the hypocrites that they will have a painful retribution.
4140 It has been sent down to you in the book, that when you hear God's signs being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the ingrates in hell all together.
4143 They are swaying in-between, belonging neither to this group nor to that group. Whomever God will misguide, you will not find for him a way.
386 How would God guide a people who have rejected after acknowledging and they witnessed that the messenger was true, and the clear evidences had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
Therefore, I wouldnt take it too lightly, rashidala, nothing against you. If you want to acknowledge the Quran and then reject, then it's your decision, however, this is not very wise. Of course the minimum things are included in 262, but why would you want to turn aways from Islam. What makes you so curious to reject the Quran or not to follow it at all?
hmmAs I have said before, if you stick to the teachings of the Quran, there should be no problem at all. However, we must remember of course
2256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects the transgressors, and acknowledges God, has grasped the firm branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.
I guess being a monotheist is enough, however, rejecting the Quran/stopping to follow it is not wise.
So you joining the monotheist Buddhist group shoul dbe fine, IF you dont reject/stop to follow the teachings of the Quran/dont reject the Quran.
Hope my point is clearer now.
Peace
yes
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so the free minds are not so free.. lol.
to continue the dialogue.. I asked you in reference to Qur'anic teaching.
Rev. John seems an alright fellow, and he is a Christian Monotheist.. is he unwise? It seems clear to me that the minimum requirements are just like Judaism ( God-alone, deeds and last day.)
To say, this means to follow the Qur'an as opposed to just being a monotheist, seems to be flying in the face of this. I am not a polytheist nor have I believed (in monotheism) then rejected, then believed again. I have always been a monotheist.
It seems to me, you are postulating the Qur'an as the sole bearer of truth and this is just as poisonous as the sunnis hugging their ahadith.
To me, it is the height of arrogance to sit and say "I alone know the truth" when there are so many other monotheistic faiths out there I have studied which do the righteous deeds for God alone and believe in a reckoning. I believe they are all going to paradise personally.
If God gave a basic morality, then condemned a people solely for their choice of holy book ( which was in line with the wisdom of the Qur'an in base.) when they were very honorable monotheistic men and women, then he is a tyrant of a God and an exclusionist.
Looking forward to your reply. )
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so the free minds are not so free.. lol.
to continue the dialogue.. I asked you in reference to Qur'anic teaching.
Rev. John seems an alright fellow, and he is a Christian Monotheist.. is he unwise? It seems clear to me that the minimum requirements are just like Judaism ( God-alone, deeds and last day.)
To say, this means to follow the Qur'an as opposed to just being a monotheist, seems to be flying in the face of this. I am not a polytheist nor have I believed (in monotheism) then rejected, then believed again. I have always been a monotheist.
It seems to me, you are postulating the Qur'an as the sole bearer of truth and this is just as poisonous as the sunnis hugging their ahadith.
To me, it is the height of arrogance to sit and say "I alone know the truth" when there are so many other monotheistic faiths out there I have studied which do the righteous deeds for God alone and believe in a reckoning. I believe they are all going to paradise personally.
If God gave a basic morality, then condemned a people solely for their choice of holy book ( which was in line with the wisdom of the Qur'an in base.) when they were very honorable monotheistic men and women, then he is a tyrant of a God and an exclusionist.
Looking forward to your reply.
bravo Well said bravo
I think 2.62 says it all. -
To say, this means to follow the Qur'an as opposed to just being a monotheist, seems to be flying in the face of this. I am not a polytheist nor have I believed (in monotheism) then rejected, then believed again. I have always been a monotheist.
I didnt mean that at all! I was taking it in the context of acknowledging the Quran as a divine scripture.
It seems to me, you are postulating the Qur'an as the sole bearer of truth and this is just as poisonous as the sunnis hugging their ahadith.
laugh
Yes, I regard the Quran as the best of the divine scriptures.
297 Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel, then know that he has sent it down into your heart by God's permission, authenticating what is already present, and a guide and good news for those who acknowledge."
548 We have sent down to you the book with truth, authenticating what is present of the book and superseding it...
If you have already acknowledged the Quran as a divine scripture there is no reason to reject it. Please read the verses again. And, like I have emphasized before "There is no compulsion in the system/religion".
To me, it is the height of arrogance to sit and say "I alone know the truth" when there are so many other monotheistic faiths out there I have studied which do the righteous deeds for God alone and believe in a reckoning. I believe they are all going to paradise personally.
262 Surely those who acknowledge, and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and those who follow other religions, any one of them who acknowledge God and the Last day, and do reform, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
565 If the people of the book only would have acknowledged and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.
566 If they had upheld the Torah, the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but many of them commit evil.
569 "Those who acknowledge, those who are Jewish, those who are the followers of other religions, and the Nazarenes Whoever acknowledges God and the Last day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve."
If God gave a basic morality, then condemned a people solely for their choice of holy book ( which was in line with the wisdom of the Qur'an in base.) when they were very honorable monotheistic men and women, then he is a tyrant of a God and an exclusionist.
Like the above
565 If the people of the book only would have acknowledged and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.
566 If they had upheld the Torah, the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but many of them commit evil.
I have emphasized that being a monotheist, serving/worshipping God alone, acknowledging the hereafter and leading a righteous life suffice for attaining salvation.
Also, I want to emphasize something again for you ALL of God's messengers preached the SAME SYSTEM/RELIGION/WAY OF LIFE (DEEN) SUBMISSION TO GOD ALONE/MONOTHEISM.
ANYONE who submits to God alone is a Muslim (Submitter).
4213 He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses to Himself whoever/whomever He wills; He guides to Himself whoever repents.
3122 And whosoever submits himself completely to God, while he is righteous, then he has taken hold of the strongest bond. And to God all matters will return.
I am not saying that it is an absolute must to acknowledge the Quran as a divine scripture, however, if you already do, there shouldnt really be a reason to reject it. The monotheist/God alone Christians and Jews and followers of other religions will of course also attain salvation, granted that they fulfill the requirements of 262 and 3122.
I hope you understand now.
Peace