Monotheists
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You don't need any books to be a muslim. Abraham didn't have squat to read. I can see the Quran is an object of worship for some people here.
"without going out of your door, you can know the ways of the world. without peeping through your window, you can see the way of heaven"
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I am young..next year I shall be 30. Yet, I have been a student of religion for a time yet. The longer I live, with God's blessing to do so, the more I see that the religions that are authentic and carry weight deal with the same things. Family, Honor, Respect and Reverence for God above Man and the world.
If any man or woman can keep their virtue, honor and make the world a better place than when they found it.. I see no reason why God would deny them.. or the God they gave service to was not worth serving and can just leave a good name for their children to carry on.
It should not be about avoiding hell or seeking heaven. It should be about how we deal with our fellow man and doing our best to see that the earth is watched over.
There was an old quote in america, now seemingly forgotten, from some ten years before 1900.. "To leave a name of a man who never bullied another, or stood down against the same when a defenseless person was being harassed."
Strength and Honor Brothers and Sisters...
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Peace,
I don't think Buddhism is the best path to follow in light of the Qur'aan (if you believe in it's revelation). The scriptures state that the Jews, the Nazarenes (who've also been interpreted to refer to certain sects of Christianity), and the "SAABIOON" who lead righteous lives, believe in God, and acknowledge the last day; it doesn't say anything about the followers of other, outside religions. It specifically mentions the Abrahamic religions. The word "saabii" implies the changing of a person's religion, and by referring to the "saabioon", it's specifically referring to the converts, those who abandoned their former religions and chose to follow Muhammad...
Salvation is dependent on more than just simply being a monotheist. If this was the case, there'd be no need for the Torah, the Enjeel, or the Qur'aan... According to the Qur'aan, salvation is dependent on adhering to the "millat Ibraheem"/religion of Abraham, which is outlined in all of the revealed scriptures.
Who would forsake the religion of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the hereafter he will be among the righteous. (2130)
The "minimum" in submission is NOT being simply a monotheist, since the Qur'aan says
Say, "We believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters." If they believe as you do, then they are guided; but if they turn away, then they are in opposition. God will spare you their opposition. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. (2136, 137)
The "minimum" necessity is to serve God alone and follow the guidance given in His scriptures, whether you profess to be a Jew, a Nazarene, or an Islaamic convert. Being a monotheist alone is NOT ENOUGH. Following the guidance is a requirement; those who don't do so are in "opposition" to God.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace,
I don't think Buddhism is the best path to follow in light of the Qur'aan (if you believe in it's revelation). The scriptures state that the Jews, the Nazarenes (who've also been interpreted to refer to certain sects of Christianity), and the "SAABIOON" who lead righteous lives, believe in God, and acknowledge the last day; it doesn't say anything about the followers of other, outside religions. It specifically mentions the Abrahamic religions. The word "saabii" implies the changing of a person's religion, and by referring to the "saabioon", it's specifically referring to the converts, those who abandoned their former religions and chose to follow Muhammad...
Salvation is dependent on more than just simply being a monotheist. If this was the case, there'd be no need for the Torah, the Enjeel, or the Qur'aan... According to the Qur'aan, salvation is dependent on adhering to the "millat Ibraheem"/religion of Abraham, which is outlined in all of the revealed scriptures.
Who would forsake the religion of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the hereafter he will be among the righteous. (2130)
The "minimum" in submission is NOT being simply a monotheist, since the Qur'aan says
Say, "We believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters." If they believe as you do, then they are guided; but if they turn away, then they are in opposition. God will spare you their opposition. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. (2136, 137)
The "minimum" necessity is to serve God alone and follow the guidance given in His scriptures, whether you profess to be a Jew, a Nazarene, or an Islaamic convert. Being a monotheist alone is NOT ENOUGH. Following the guidance is a requirement; those who don't do so are in "opposition" to God.
Peace,
Ahmad
sun bravo
peace -
Peace,
I don't think Buddhism is the best path to follow in light of the Qur'aan (if you believe in it's revelation). The scriptures state that the Jews, the Nazarenes (who've also been interpreted to refer to certain sects of Christianity), and the "SAABIOON" who lead righteous lives, believe in God, and acknowledge the last day; it doesn't say anything about the followers of other, outside religions. It specifically mentions the Abrahamic religions. The word "saabii" implies the changing of a person's religion, and by referring to the "saabioon", it's specifically referring to the converts, those who abandoned their former religions and chose to follow Muhammad...
Salvation is dependent on more than just simply being a monotheist. If this was the case, there'd be no need for the Torah, the Enjeel, or the Qur'aan... According to the Qur'aan, salvation is dependent on adhering to the "millat Ibraheem"/religion of Abraham, which is outlined in all of the revealed scriptures.
Who would forsake the religion of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the hereafter he will be among the righteous. (2130)
The "minimum" in submission is NOT being simply a monotheist, since the Qur'aan says
Say, "We believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters." If they believe as you do, then they are guided; but if they turn away, then they are in opposition. God will spare you their opposition. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. (2136, 137)
The "minimum" necessity is to serve God alone and follow the guidance given in His scriptures, whether you profess to be a Jew, a Nazarene, or an Islaamic convert. Being a monotheist alone is NOT ENOUGH. Following the guidance is a requirement; those who don't do so are in "opposition" to God.
Peace,
Ahmad
bravo bravo bravo bravo
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According to the Qur'aan, salvation is dependent on adhering to the "millat Ibraheem"/religion of Abraham, which is outlined in all of the revealed scriptures.
That's right. And what is the name of the book Abraham was reading?
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That's right. And what is the name of the book Abraham was reading?
The Qur'aan mentions a book being sent down to Abraham (8719)... But this is beside the point. Abraham was already a follower of the Noahide Laws, which were established before Abraham's birth and were upheld until the Torah was revealed. The factors of this system that weren't revealed with Noah (i.e. al salaat, al zakaat, al siyyaam, etc.) were revealed to Abraham from God, which is also said specifically in the Qur'aan...
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The Qur'aan mentions a book being sent down to Abraham (8719)... But this is beside the point. Abraham was already a follower of the Noahide Laws, which were established before Abraham's birth and were upheld until the Torah was revealed. The factors of this system that weren't revealed with Noah (i.e. al salaat, al zakaat, al siyyaam, etc.) were revealed to Abraham from God, which is also said specifically in the Qur'aan...
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Why is the "scripture" not named while the others are? I.e. injeel, tarwat...
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Abraham was first an idol worshipper like those around him. If "Noahide laws" were upheld, what were the idols that he broke?
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Some "factors" not being revealed to Noah? I thought God's system would be consistent. Are there still some factors I should be waiting for incase the Qur'an isn't complete.
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- Abraham was first an idol worshipper like those around him. If "Noahide laws" were upheld, what were the idols that he broke?
16120 Abraham was virtue personified, devoted in his commitment to God, turning away from all that is false. He upheld strict Monotheism and never indulged in idolatry of any kind.
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Again.. we find out that free-minds are not so free.
If I recall the verse was "any one who ..." not just those who are of the Abrahamic faith. Do you wish to nit pick the verse now?
Muhsin Khan Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Yusuf Ali Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Pickthal Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Pay close attention to the words in the ** if you would please.
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16120 Abraham was virtue personified, devoted in his commitment to God, turning away from all that is false. He upheld strict Monotheism and never indulged in idolatry of any kind.
From the translation available on the front page.
675 And it is such that We showed Abraham the kingdom of the
heavens and the earth, so that he will be of those who have
certainty.676 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said ?This
is my Lord.? But when it disappeared he said ?I do not like those
who disappear.?677 So when he saw the moon rising, he said ?This is my Lord.? But
when it disappeared he said ?If my Lord does not guide me, then
I will be among the wicked people!?678 So when he saw the sun rising, he said ?This is my Lord, this
is bigger.? But when it disappeared he said ?My people, I am
innocent of what you have set up.?679 ?I shall turn my face to the One who initiated the heavens and the
earth, in monotheism, and I am not of the polytheists.?That's three instances of idol worship before the realization.
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From the translation available on the front page.
675 And it is such that We showed Abraham the kingdom of the
heavens and the earth, so that he will be of those who have
certainty.676 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said This
is my Lord. But when it disappeared he said I do not like those
who disappear.677 So when he saw the moon rising, he said This is my Lord. But
when it disappeared he said If my Lord does not guide me, then
I will be among the wicked people!678 So when he saw the sun rising, he said This is my Lord, this
is bigger. But when it disappeared he said My people, I am
innocent of what you have set up.679 I shall turn my face to the One who initiated the heavens and the
earth, in monotheism, and I am not of the polytheists.That's three instances of idol worship before the realization.
Abraham never set up partners with God. Maybe he has mistaken these things as God, however, the Quran clearly says that Abraham wasnt an idolater.
680 His people argued with him. He said, "Do you argue with me regarding God, when He has guided me? I do not fear what you have set up except if my Lord wishes it so; my Lord encompasses all things with knowledge; will you not remember?"
681 "How can I possibly fear what you have set up; yet you do not fear that you have set up partners with God, for which He has not sent down to you any authority! So which of our two groups is more worthy of security if you know?"
682 Those who acknowledge and do not dress their acknowledgement with inequity; they will have security, and they are guided.
683 This is the logic (examples of the star, the moon and the sun) that We taught Abraham (Ibrahim) against his people. We exalt people in ranks when they follow Our laws. Your Lord is Wise, All Knower.
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Abraham never set up partners with God. Maybe he has mistaken these things as God
What's the difference?
Once upon a time, I mistook my parents for God. What was that?
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What's the difference?
Once upon a time, I mistook my parents for God. What was that?
Read the verses that follow which I have put in the edited version of my last post.
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Abraham never set up partners with God. Maybe he has mistaken these things as God, however, the Quran clearly says that Abraham wasnt an idolater.
680 His people argued with him. He said, "Do you argue with me regarding God, when He has guided me? I do not fear what you have set up except if my Lord wishes it so; my Lord encompasses all things with knowledge; will you not remember?"
681 "How can I possibly fear what you have set up; yet you do not fear that you have set up partners with God, for which He has not sent down to you any authority! So which of our two groups is more worthy of security if you know?"
682 Those who acknowledge and do not dress their acknowledgement with inequity; they will have security, and they are guided.
683 This is the logic (examples of the star, the moon and the sun) that We taught Abraham (Ibrahim) against his people. We exalt people in ranks when they follow Our laws. Your Lord is Wise, All Knower.
So, essentially, since birth, Abraham was totally uninfluenced by his father's teachings (a priest in a temple) and KNEW from an early age about the one true god?
Also, who did he first use the logical argument of the planet/sun/moon against? Himself or the people?
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So, essentially, since birth, Abraham was totally uninfluenced by his father's teachings (a priest in a temple) and KNEW from an early age about the one true god?
Also, who did he first use the logical argument of the planet/sun/moon against? Himself or the people?
He doesnt worship the celestial bodies not does he take them as partners of God. I need to check up on this issue and GW I'll get back to you again.
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He doesnt worship the celestial bodies not does he take them as partners of God. I need to check up on this issue and GW I'll get back to you again.
And he didn't, even in a momentary lapse of reason, think that maybe "hmm that shiny things looks pretty big. might be god." and then came to his senses?
What I'm trying to argue here is if Abraham already knew about the true god (I.E. born with the knowledge) or did he reach the conclusion through reason. First debating with himself and then with the people he was around. After which he broke their idols and had to flee because of their close-mindedness.
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Peace Rashidala,
Again.. we find out that free-minds are not so free.
If I recall the verse was "any one who ..." not just those who are of the Abrahamic faith. Do you wish to nit pick the verse now?
Muhsin Khan Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Yusuf Ali Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Pickthal Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Pay close attention to the words in the ** if you would please.
First of all, I'm not a "free-minder". LOL... Secondly, you have to read the context of the passage in which you're examining. It specifically says, "those who are Jews, and the Nasara, and the converts (i.e. "saabioon", any who believe..." The context is clear enough. It's talking about ANYONE AMONG THESE GROUPS who believes in God and in the last day, not anyone in general. If it was talking about anyone on earth, what's the point of naming any religious groups at all? It wouldn't have said anything about Jews, Nazarenes, or converts at all, it would've looked like this
Pickthal Lo! Whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
But, as we both know, this is NOT what the passage is saying at all. It's very specific, and it clearly identifies those three groups as achievers of salvation, not any others... It's not about nit-picking, it's about reading the verse in context. You can't just pick and choose which words you want to see, or which ones you feel are more important. You have to read the whole thing...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Why is the "scripture" not named while the others are? I.e. injeel, tarwat...
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Abraham was first an idol worshipper like those around him. If "Noahide laws" were upheld, what were the idols that he broke?
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Some "factors" not being revealed to Noah? I thought God's system would be consistent. Are there still some factors I should be waiting for incase the Qur'an isn't complete.
To answer your questions
(1) None of the scriptures are "named", they are only identified. The "HATORAAH" is not the name of a book, it's the description. It's a Hebrew word meaning "the instruction"... The Qur'aan is not the "name" of a book, it's the description, meaning "the reading" (or "the recitation".
(2) Abraham followed the Noahide Laws, but this doesn't mean his family did. His father, according to the story, was a blatant idol worshipper, and he raised his son to be as he was. Abraham, however, used logic to conclude that none of those idols were comparable to the Supreme God...
(3) God's system is submission, period. Noah was a monotheist, but he didn't have a complete system of practical worship, which is why the Qur'aan instructs us to follow the "millat Ibraheem"/religion of Abraham, not the religion of Noah... Noah came BEFORE Abraham, yet we follow the religion of Abraham. Why is this? Because the Qur'aan specifically says that Abraham was taught the rites and rituals involved in submission, which he taught to his children. There was no salaat, zakaat, siyyaam, etc. mentioned before Abraham. We follow the religion of Abraham by adhering to MORE than just monotheism; we also have rites and rituals involved in our service to God, things that Noah didn't have... Regarding the completion of the system, this isn't an issue, since the Qur'aan states that it's perfect, complete, and fully detailed...
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