God-Alone
-
From my experience, what I read etc. there are thousands in certain countries, e.g. Egypt, Pakistan, Malaysia, USA. In some so-called "Muslim/Islamic" countries, it is likely that many do not publicly air their views. It is on the rise however.
In fact, the majority of Muslims that I have spoken to in the UK are not fans of Traditional Ahadith, but do not realise the extent to which non-Quranic sources have influenced islam and its practice. Most openly acknowledge some Traditional Ahadith are nonsense.
Peace everyone
From experience I dont reveal to people that I am a Quran alone submitter. That is if they ask then I tell them. So far I told my dad and he said "dont you go and get brain washed." Told my wife she is sort of half for and half against, she still carries on Islam the way she was taught but can see some logic in what I have pointed out to her. I must say I do not force anyone to accept the path I have chosen, I just point them to the Quran and let them be guided. I generally try to keep myself to myself, but I am aware that our duty is to spread the message, but until I have educated myself enough, then its best to keep my thoughts to myself as well as my beliefs.
Peace
Hope
-
Peace everyone
From experience I dont reveal to people that I am a Quran alone submitter. That is if they ask then I tell them. So far I told my dad and he said "dont you go and get brain washed." Told my wife she is sort of half for and half against, she still carries on Islam the way she was taught but can see some logic in what I have pointed out to her. I must say I do not force anyone to accept the path I have chosen, I just point them to the Quran and let them be guided. I generally try to keep myself to myself, but I am aware that our duty is to spread the message, but until I have educated myself enough, then its best to keep my thoughts to myself as well as my beliefs.
Peace
Hope
Peace.
That's the way I am too.
I know my husband says he doesn't really believe in the hadiths, but he says it's dangerous to discard them. I point out the ones the contradict the Qur'an and stress the fact that they should NOT be overriding it.
He has said numerous times that I'm "on the wrong path". No, I don't believe that I am. I've never been more sure of anything in my whole life.
I don't push him, but if he asks me something I'll explain my reasoning. I also try not to talk about something if I'm not sure of my reasoning, even if I'm sure of something I need to have a good explanation behind it before I try to convince someone. -
Peace.
That's the way I am too.
I know my husband says he doesn't really believe in the hadiths, but he says it's dangerous to discard them. I point out the ones the contradict the Qur'an and stress the fact that they should NOT be overriding it.
He has said numerous times that I'm "on the wrong path". No, I don't believe that I am. I've never been more sure of anything in my whole life.
I don't push him, but if he asks me something I'll explain my reasoning. I also try not to talk about something if I'm not sure of my reasoning, even if I'm sure of something I need to have a good explanation behind it before I try to convince someone.I am the same with Christianity. As a God-alone Christian, I just "know" I am on the right path and the traditional Christian churches are heading in the wrong direction. But trying to explain it to them is like banging your head on a brick wall. brickwall
-
From my experience, what I read etc. there are thousands in certain countries, e.g. Egypt, Pakistan, Malaysia, USA. In some so-called "Muslim/Islamic" countries, it is likely that many do not publicly air their views. It is on the rise however.
In fact, the majority of Muslims that I have spoken to in the UK are not fans of Traditional Ahadith, but do not realise the extent to which non-Quranic sources have influenced islam and its practice. Most openly acknowledge some Traditional Ahadith are nonsense.
When I explain people about God alone and contradictions in the hadhis, some people believe me, But are afraid and get even more confused! Others call me rude names and label me as an apostate! )
-
I live in the "Disneyland with the death penalty", Singapore, Rev.John. Our version of the secret service likes to detain people they suspect, no questions asked, no trials. We have this thing call the Maintenance of Religious Harmony Act that recently sent a Christian couple caught distributing Chick tracts to jail.
I'm from Singapore too, and the only one I know who is God Alone is my wife. She was a Sunni, but after 2 years of marriage she is now God alone. All this after I encourage her to read the quran and to think for herself. She now reads the quran almost every day and reject the hadiths.
Some of my Sunni friends know my status and they are fine with it. We're the best of friends group
-
I'm from Singapore too, and the only one I know who is God Alone is my wife. She was a Sunni, but after 2 years of marriage she is now God alone. All this after I encourage her to read the quran and to think for herself. She now reads the quran almost every day and reject the hadiths.
Some of my Sunni friends know my status and they are fine with it. We're the best of friends group
So not all Sunnis are bad then. That is good
-
"Not all sunnis are bad" should actually be "not all people who claim to be sunni are true sunnis"
Because true sunni's are bad. If they truly live by the hadith (which is impossible since it contradicts itself even in one slight aspect) then they would be doing MANY things which makes it impossible for them not to be bad, i.e. stoning people or killing them because they left their satanic cultish sect.
Case in point, the sunnis that respect the above married spouses for who they are are not true sunni's. If they've heard that they "used to be sunni" and now are "God-alone, Quran alone" if they are true sunnis (shayateen) then they would kill them, like that.
And wow, this thread got two pages filled in like a day. Nice...
-
"Not all sunnis are bad" should actually be "not all people who claim to be sunni are true sunnis"
Because true sunni's are bad. If they truly live by the hadith (which is impossible since it contradicts itself even in one slight aspect) then they would be doing MANY things which makes it impossible for them not to be bad, i.e. stoning people or killing them because they left their satanic cultish sect.
Case in point, the sunnis that respect the above married spouses for who they are are not true sunni's. If they've heard that they "used to be sunni" and now are "God-alone, Quran alone" if they are true sunnis (shayateen) then they would kill them, like that.
And wow, this thread got two pages filled in like a day. Nice...
Wow! wow I see what you mean
-
"Not all sunnis are bad" should actually be "not all people who claim to be sunni are true sunnis"
Because true sunni's are bad. If they truly live by the hadith (which is impossible since it contradicts itself even in one slight aspect) then they would be doing MANY things which makes it impossible for them not to be bad, i.e. stoning people or killing them because they left their satanic cultish sect.
Case in point, the sunnis that respect the above married spouses for who they are are not true sunni's. If they've heard that they "used to be sunni" and now are "God-alone, Quran alone" if they are true sunnis (shayateen) then they would kill them, like that.
And wow, this thread got two pages filled in like a day. Nice...
peace,
Respectfully.I just came from hard day's work and i must say as soon as i read this i laughed and keep in mind i'm in a place where lauighing is a little restricted. I'm in the library.
But i agree, the real sunnis are whabis and three of them made threats to me to terminate my life, they also said that in a way that was loaded with pride, arrogance, power and evilness.
Forget Chucky, Terminator, T-1000, T-X, agent Smith, Freddy, Jason Voorhees, Mike Myers, queen from ID4, .... wahabis are the worst of the worst or the worst into infinity. I'm telling ya, thes epeople should be banned from this country because they are abusing the system here.
Peace.
-
peace,
Respectfully.I just came from hard day's work and i must say as soon as i read this i laughed and keep in mind i'm in a place where lauighing is a little restricted. I'm in the library.
But i agree, the real sunnis are whabis and three of them made threats to me to terminate my life, they also said that in a way that was loaded with pride, arrogance, power and evilness.
Forget Chucky, Terminator, T-1000, T-X, agent Smith, Freddy, Jason Voorhees, Mike Myers, queen from ID4, .... wahabis are the worst of the worst or the worst into infinity. I'm telling ya, thes epeople should be banned from this country because they are abusing the system here.
Peace.
Be careful. We don't want you murdered
-
But i agree, the real sunnis are whabis and three of them made threats to me to terminate my life, they also said that in a way that was loaded with pride, arrogance, power and evilness.
Wahabbis are quite similar to the medieval catholic fanatics..
I'm too been 'invited' to an 'inquisition session' (although they called it a 'discussion session' by a group wahabbis, upon hearing some of my sayings/opinion about the hadiths from an acquittance of mine.The only difference is The wahabbis are much worse!
Salam / Peace
-
Wahabbis are quite similar to the medieval catholic fanatics..
I'm too been 'invited' to an 'inquisition session' (although they called it a 'discussion session' by a group wahabbis, upon hearing some of my sayings/opinion about the hadiths from an acquittance of mine.The only difference is The wahabbis are much worse!
Salam / Peace
You need to be careful too. There are fanatics everywhere.
-
So not all Sunnis are bad then. That is good
yes but wahabis are getting more attention nowadays in my country!!! brickwall
-
...I didn't know that what I said was going to derive that much attention rotfl after all...my rebuttals thread in the hadith forum is almost totally ignored except by two people
As for the person who says whabis are like the old Christian monks and punks, yer right http//pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/09/06/hadith-plagiarized-from-the-bible/
Not that much to read...hopefully ;D and I'm just talking about the bottom part, chapter 3 of that article.
CHAPTER 3 THE AHLUS SUNNAH?S DEATH SENTENCE FOR APOSTATES IS STOLEN FROM THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE NOT FROM THE QURAN
The Sharia Law of the Ahlus Sunnah has codified the Hudood Offences which includes the offence of apostasy or irtidaa which according to them is punishable by death. Under the Hudood Punishments of the Shariah Laws an apostate or murtad must be killed.
There is no punishment for apostasy in the Quran. According to GOD and the Prophet in the Quran a person can jump into and out of belief. Here is the verse from the Quran that proves it
Surah 4137 ?Surely those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, GOD will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path?.
If we believe in GOD we are guided. If we do not believe in GOD, GOD will deal with us in the Hereafter. This is what the Prophet has taught us. In the Quran there is no prescribed temporal punishment for the apostate, other than his fate rests with GOD.
But where does the Ahlul Sunnah belief that the apostate must be killed come from ? It comes from the Christian Bible. This very dangerous and evil belief that the apostate must be killed has created too much bloodshed and division among the ummah over the past centuries.
?You are out of the fold therefore your blood is halal? has been the battle cry of too many lost souls which has destroyed too many nations in the past.
In many Ahlul Sunnah countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Malaysia ? if you are NOT a follower of the accepted mainstream Ahlul Sunnah sect you can be jailed and fined. In Saudi Arabia the Shiahs are discriminated against. In Pakistan from time to time the Shiahs are just shot and killed by the Ahlul Sunnah. Of course the Shiahs also return the affection from time to time.
The false belief among the Ahlul Sunnah that they must punish apostates has no basis in the Quran. It is another false Ahlul Sunnah belief stolen from the Christian Bible and then passed off as the teaching of the Prophet, sunnah of the Prophet etc. Here is the source of this false teaching from the Bible
Leviticus 2416
?Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.
Here according to the book of Leviticus in the Bible anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall be put to death. He shall be stoned to death. Here is more of this ?let?s kill the apostates? insanity from the Christian Bible
Deuteronomy135
?But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the LORD your GOD who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the LORD your GOD commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you.
According to the Bible anyone who thinks differently (dreamer of dreams) shall be killed. This is the real teaching of the Christian Bible. Just kill people who do not wish to believe like you anymore. Here is yet more killing from the Bible
Deuteronomy 136 ? 10
?If your brother, your mother?s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ?Let us go and serve other gods? you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. ?But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. ?So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from the LORD your GOD who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
So this is what the Bible says. Those who blaspheme the name of the Lord, those who are ?dreamers of dreams?, those who tell you to serve other gods must all be put to death. And the ulema or the priests shall have the final say in deciding what exactly is blasphemy, who exactly is a dreamer of dreams, what exactly is ?enticing you? etc. If the ulema say you are outside their ?aqeedah? then you can be killed.
Anyway this is NOT the teaching of Islam, GOD or the Prophet. GOD never revealed anything like this to the Prophet. Instead GOD and the Prophet are very clear about what to do with those who switch from belief to unbelief then back to belief and then to unbelief again.
Surely those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, GOD will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path.
One needs to be constantly alive to jump in and out of belief like this. The Quran allows this freedom of belief and disbelief but such a person who persists in disbelief will of course never be forgiven by GOD. There is no temporal punishment prescribed anywhere in the Quran for rejecting belief. This evil and barbaric punishment of death for apostates is stolen from the Christian Bible.
The Bible and the Shariah Laws of the Ahlul Sunnah do not allow any freedom of belief. According to the Bible and the Sharia Law of the Ahlul Sunnah a person should be put to death when he jumps from belief to disbelief. It is clear again that the ulema of Ahlul Sunnah reject the teachings of GOD and the Prophet in the Quran. Instead they prefer to plagiarise Biblical teachings and pass it off as the teachings of the Prophet. -
Are things improving since the fall of communism there?
Peace,
Respectfully.I musts ay no. At least i don't see it. Ljubljana is not a multi culturan city and that is one oft he reaosns why i don't like it there. We don't have a msoque there at all not permission to build one, people still want to go back to their old ways and most of them have the mentality of the communism time and that is the main reaosn i don't wanna go back there.
Peace.
-
Peace,
Respectfully.I musts ay no. At least i don't see it. Ljubljana is not a multi culturan city and that is one oft he reaosns why i don't like it there. We don't have a msoque there at all not permission to build one, people still want to go back to their old ways and most of them have the mentality of the communism time and that is the main reaosn i don't wanna go back there.
Peace.
That is such a shame. The people there should be given a chance to improve themselves and their country.
-
"Not all sunnis are bad" should actually be "not all people who claim to be sunni are true sunnis"
Because true sunni's are bad. If they truly live by the hadith (which is impossible since it contradicts itself even in one slight aspect) then they would be doing MANY things which makes it impossible for them not to be bad, i.e. stoning people or killing them because they left their satanic cultish sect.
Case in point, the sunnis that respect the above married spouses for who they are are not true sunni's. If they've heard that they "used to be sunni" and now are "God-alone, Quran alone" if they are true sunnis (shayateen) then they would kill them, like that.
And wow, this thread got two pages filled in like a day. Nice...
Sunnis generally believe that the authorities should decide that matter and not individuals and to be honest in the history of Sunni Islam persecuting people for apostasy was not very common.
However we must also realize that there is a takfiri element among many Quranist and I have seen in this forum some of that.
We must first define what is faith and what is disbelief from a Quranic standpoint and not based on personal conviction or reasoning. We must also identify what is shirk and who is a mushrik once again from the Quran. We must take our understanding from the Quran. We must be able to clear our own house from this poison called takfirism which divides people and instills on them hate and mistrust of each other. Nothing destroyed wahhabism than the culture of takfirism which led to various splits among them often leading to fighting and arguing with each other. This culture of takfirism is the most dangerous poison to any religious community. It destroys a religious community and causes disunity. It also has been talked about in the Quran. The Quran teaches unity among believers but how can there be unity among believers if each is accusing the other of disbelief?
Is this disbelief based on a person's faith in God or is it based on something else? Is this disbelief based on a Quranic evidence or is it based on disagrreements with each other's views which often are speculations and personal reasonings very rarely attributed to any Quranic evidence?
Once again the Quran should be the criteria.
Another problem is the arguments about apostasy is usually shaped by Sunnis as being a question of treason and not personal religious conviction. They try to shape apostasy from Islam as an act of treason to the state and community. Then we must define what is a state and what is a community and what consistutes treason and what does not. This is a good counter since Sunnis generally shape their argumenst to a Western audience who usually are the ones critising them and Sunnis simply envoke the "what about you" arguments on the West. Many Western countries have harsh laws against state treason(Walker Lindh etc). So we must derive a definition about what is treason and what is not as a way to counter Sunni arguments.
But my main fear is the culture of takfirism. Not long ago wahhabism was seen as a "progressive" movement especially in the 60s and 70s. Sufism was seen as regressive and filled with superstitions and not progressive. We all know what happened to that perception. But more than what they preach, takfirism has been the devil that surrounded the wahhabis from its earliest days and ended up destroying it in its later days. We must emphasize freedom as a way forward but more importantly we must root out the culture of takfirsm which will destroy the youth and spread discord and sectarianism among the activist and alienate the masses from the Quranist movement. Everything must be from the Quran and not based on personal conviction that is built on speculations.
Its also odd that people speak out against wahhabism and yet many beliefs people have about what constitutes shirk and what is not is not based on any Quranic evidence or understanding of pagan religions but is based on arguments very similar to the wahhabis themselves!
We have people who believe code 19 is shirk
We have people who believe making tawwaf arround the ka'ba is shirk.
Touching and kissing the black stone in the Ka'ba is shirk.
Placing "Muhammad is the messenger" signs in mosques or homes is shirk.
Believing that even the prophets can intercede for us is shirk.
Believing in the power of healing of the Quran or visiting sufi sheikhs is shirk.People here complain about Zakir Naik being banned from making lectures when he said many Sunnis practice shirk, but ironically they also believe in the same stuff this wahhabi preaches and see nothing wrong with what he preaches when it comes to shirk! They agree with what he says but refuse to accept hadiths because they see that as problematic. This is the same reason why many Quranist attack the previous scriptures because they see in them the same things they see in Sunni hadiths. The Quran however sees the previous scriptures very differently from how they see it. This is why many Sunnis do not take many Quranist seriously is they see them as post modernist who only question hadiths to escape some of its legal traditions which they see as primitive or too harsh based on their personal convictions. They see the Quranist as a product of Western and secular pressures on Muslim societies and an attempt by some to try to "fit" the Western mindset and modern lifestyle and escape criticism. Thats a very dangerous perception and this perception is very common not only among Muslims but also Western elites.
What Quranist should emphasize is the CONTRADICTIONS between the teachings of the Quran and Sunnism and how the Quran is self sufficient. But to do that we must adhere to the Quran in all matters and not just when it is convenient or when it agrees with our personal convictions. The Quran says many things we love can be harmful to us and many things we hate could be good for us.
If the Quran is your source of guidance then rely on it for all your religious convictions and religious arguments and let the Quran worry about the consequences.