Fish is haram 4 Quran Alone adept according to Sunni Cheikh
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Peace Layth,
have never heard this new line of thinking that the subject matter is not even meat!
This indicates that the act of mentioning God's name must be done in the past, before it ever reached the person who is about to eat it. Therefore, that dispells that notion that the name of God can simply be mentioned at any time after the animal is slaughtered to make it permisible.
Also, note that the issue of God's name mentioned at the slaughter is the only option that makes sence when we look at other verses that deal with what foods are lawful or unlawful
So, going by this argument, the cucumber, since it is arriving "dead" to your table is forbidden by the law of 6145.
Carrion is prohibited, not dead vegetables (see 53). I don't think that many people eat things that are alive.
Here is another verse from sura 6 that will perhaps help you keep on track
6138 And they said These livestock and crops are reserved, and none shall eat from them except as we please, by their claims; and
livestock whose backs are unlawful, and livestock over which they do not mention the name of God as an innovation against
Him. He will recompense them for what they invented.My point is that 6145, 618-19 and 621 don't talk about mentioning God's name on meat specifically, but on food in general. It says that we are not allowed to eat that on which God's name has not been mentioned (which is to be done by ourselves).
6119 Why should you not eat (anything, not just meat) that on which God's name has been mentioned, when He has sufficiently detailed to you what has been made forbidden; except what you are forced to? Many misguide by their desires without knowledge; your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors.
6121 Do not eat (anything, not just meat) from what God's name has not been mentioned, for it is vile. The devils inspire their supporters to argue with you; and if you obey them, then you have set up partners.
6145 Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except carrion, running blood, the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, or anything (not just meat) blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Merciful.
These verses talk about eating food/mentioning God's name on food IN GENERAL, not just meat. That alone shows that mentioning God's name during slaughter is not necessary - it can/should be mentioned before eating.
Peace
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Salam progressive,
Carrion is prohibited, not dead vegetables (see 53). I don't think that many people eat things that are alive.
Carrion? Interesting, I do not find that word anywhere in the Quran (the Arabic is "mayta" which is "that which is dead" - so, by that definiton alone, and using the same logic you used, it can be vegtable or meat or any other organic matter.
But, I guess since you now realize the problem that having anything other than animal in the subject matter will produce you will not be pushing this line of thought any further.
Peace.
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Peace Layth,
Salam progressive,
Carrion? Interesting, I do not find that word anywhere in the Quran (the Arabic is "mayta" which is "that which is dead" - so, by that definiton alone, and using the same logic you used, it can be vegtable or meat or any other organic matter.
Correct, and that is why we have 53 to clarify (giving a definition to "mayta"
53 Forbidden to you is what is already dead, and the blood, the meat of pig, and animals dedicated to other than God. The strangled, killed by a blow, fallen from height, gored, eaten by wild animals except what you managed to rescue, and those slaughtered on altars... Also what you divide through gambling. This is all vile. Today the ingrates have given up from your system, so do not revere them, but revere Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted peaceful surrenderas the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
54 They ask you what was made lawful to them, say, "All the good things have been made lawful for you, and what the trained dogs and birds catch; you teach them from what God teaches you." So eat from what they have captured for you and mention God's name upon it, and be aware of God. God is quick in reckoning.
When dogs or birds catch/kill animals, we cannot (necessarily) mention God's name upon it, that's why we are instructed to do so afterwards.
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UmAlawi,
I just googled it, there are a few mentions of it here and there, e.g.
The other option to slaughter Halal chicken meat is mechanized slaughter. This slaughter is too fast for proper blessing. A solution postulated is to have a tape-recording of the slaughter blessing played while the chickens are slaughtered on the belt. This practice is questionable in terms of being permissible or Halal. Another controversy is the stunning of animals. This is done with a hammer, stun guns, etc. This practice is also not certain to be Halal.
Source.
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Salam,
Correct, and that is why we have 53 to clarify (giving a definition to "mayta"
Good - we agree. And we use 6138 to clarify that the subjet matter is a living animal (and not a cucumber).
Now, knowing that the subject of 6121 is an animal, and knowing that the mention of God's name was done proceeding te arrival of the meat for eating, and knowng that in 6138 the rejecters slaughter animals without mentioning God's name as an innovation, then, I can conclude that the requirement to mention God's name is during the death of the animal and not afterwards.
54 They ask you what was made lawful to them, say, "All the good things have been made lawful for you, and what the trained dogs and birds catch; you teach them from what God teaches you." So eat from what they have captured for you and mention God's name upon it, and be aware of God. God is quick in reckoning.
When dogs or birds catch/kill animals, we cannot (necessarily) mention God's name upon it, that's why we are instructed to do so afterwards.
Sorry, but you have made 2 errors in your analysis above
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Hunting with trained birds/dogs requires the person to be with these animals at the time of the hunt (you re not in a hut watching TV waiting forthetrained bird/dog to bring the catch to you), therefore, when they are launched (assuming they have damaged the prey) you are still able to retrieve the caught animal with life in it as the entire pocess fom capture to delivery might take seconds (while the death of an animal - if youve ever killed a sheep or chicken - takes a few mintues).
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Please read verse 54 carefully, God does not use His words at random. It says 'trained and it says catch/caught. These are not wild dogs and birds who will rip out the throat of their prey, but are ones that have been trained to behave in a certain way. Also, we are told 'what they catch' and not 'what they kill', confirming my first point that these animals are still alive when they are retrieved.
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Peace,
Respectfully.You should visit London, especially Edgware Road, next to Marble Arch.
The Edgware Road is basically small version of Lebanon where sunnis pretend to be Muslims and sell alcohol, watch women's breats throught he smoke of sheesha and miss sunset prayers on purpose because they have to do business eat lots of shwarma lamb with chips (fries), smoke a lot, drink constantly due to big bellies and of course drive around in German cars.They prohibit everything that local imam tells them and at the same time, they allow themselves what they inner-self orders, which they blindly obey in the nazi-style"Jawohll, My Fuhrer!!!!!"
Peace.
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Thank you very much for your kind wishes, UmAlawi.
I hope you and your family members will come to agreement that is good for all of you. -
Salam Layth,
Nice to see you posting again. )
Why must dhikr mean "mention" in these verses? Could it not mean remember?
6121 mentions shaytan/devil as a contrast to dhikr, just like 591.
How do you understand 593, since it says we can eat any food as long as we believe and do good work? The usage of self-awareness/taqwa is very important here.
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Salam Jack,
I never had a chance to congratulate you on being a mod - good job )
Why must dhikr mean "mention" in these verses? Could it not mean remember?
6121 mentions shaytan/devil as a contrast to dhikr, just like 591.
How do you understand 593, since it says we can eat any food as long as we believe and do good work? The usage of self-awareness/taqwa is very important here.
The answer (whether dhikr is 'mention' or 'remember' would depend on the context of its use.
For example, in 2160 the context is clearly 'mention' (i.e. they said 'we heard a youth named Abraham mention them'.
In 1863, we havethe context as "remember" (i.e. the devil made me forget to remember the fish).
In the context of this discussion, I read it as "mention" rather than remeber (especially when we look to supporting verese that hve to do with slaughter such as 6138 and 2234, 2236 to recall a few.
On 593, far from being a licence for the believers to eat what they will, it is a very consoling verse saying that the believers will not bear sin for what they eat as long as they are rightoues, believe, and do good works; then are rightoues and believe; then are rightoues and make right - therefore, the believers will not be judged for what they eat as long as they are undergoing the process of betterment and rightouesness - immediately after in 594 you get the verse on the restriction of hunting which ties in smoothly with this leinency.
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Salam Jack,
I never had a chance to congratulate you on being a mod - good job
??? I thought you made him a mod. confused
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Peace all,
my stand on food in the west...
any non meat i eat...
any halal meat (without checking) i eat...
any meat by people of the book (without checking), apart from the meat of pork i eat...
i will consider eating anything coming from the sea...
i will not eat meat from other religious groups (such as satanists, that's a no brainer,
and the other ones i will not mention for politically correct reasons )
i feel very comfortable in the above following the spirit and the letter of the Quran -
Salam Jack,
I never had a chance to congratulate you on being a mod - good job )
The answer (whether dhikr is 'mention' or 'remember' would depend on the context of its use.
For example, in 2160 the context is clearly 'mention' (i.e. they said 'we heard a youth named Abraham mention them'.
In 1863, we havethe context as "remember" (i.e. the devil made me forget to remember the fish).
In the context of this discussion, I read it as "mention" rather than remeber (especially when we look to supporting verese that hve to do with slaughter such as 6138 and 2234, 2236 to recall a few.
On 593, far from being a licence for the believers to eat what they will, it is a very consoling verse saying that the believers will not bear sin for what they eat as long as they are rightoues, believe, and do good works; then are rightoues and believe; then are rightoues and make right - therefore, the believers will not be judged for what they eat as long as they are undergoing the process of betterment and rightouesness - immediately after in 594 you get the verse on the restriction of hunting which ties in smoothly with this leinency.
Salam Layth,
Thanks.
Anyways, doesn't matter either way. Whether you mention/remember, the idea is to be mindful of God in all the actions we do, including slaughtering animals
3191
Those who remember God while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder in the creation of the heavens and the earth "Our Lord you did not create this without purpose, be You glorified, spare us the retribution of the Fire!"
4103
So when you are done with the bond, then remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, when you are relieved, you shall hold the bond. Certainly, the bond for the believers is a scheduled ledger.
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Salam Munzir,
I was part of the process, but it was the other mods who initiated and then executed the addition of the new mod.
Wow a democracy. LOL! yay
peace!
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So I can only prepare foul meat? well, thanks
My comments were not meant to offend, just stating a matter of fact.
Also, I do not understand your position since you insist on relating yourself to Christianity (a pagan blasphemous religion) yet you claim on many posts to be a montheist?
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My comments were not meant to offend, just stating a matter of fact.
Also, I do not understand your position since you insist on relating yourself to Christianity (a pagan blasphemous religion) yet you claim on many posts to be a montheist?
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#Non-trinitarians
http//www.ChristianChurchofReality.com3113 They are not all the same, from the people of the book are an upright nation; they recite God's signs during parts of the night and they submit/make obeisance.
3114 They acknowledge God and the Last day, promote recognized norms and deter from evil, and they hasten in goodness; these are of the reformed ones.
3115 What they do of good will not be turned back, and God is aware of the upright.
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My comments were not meant to offend, just stating a matter of fact.
Also, I do not understand your position since you insist on relating yourself to Christianity (a pagan blasphemous religion) yet you claim on many posts to be a montheist?
I am most certainly a monotheist. The reason I still call myself a Christian is because of my own interpretation of Christianity. I do not believe that you have to accept Jesus as the "Son of God" or that he was divine, nor the existence of the trinity (which makes no sense at all). I believe that to be a Christian you just have to accept the message God gave us though Jesus (commonly called Christ). To me that makes most people Christian EXCEPT those that believe in the trinity and that Jesus was somehow God, they are not Christians, they are just as pagan as the "traditionalists" in the other religions.
Maybe I am wrong, but I tend to believe that, using my interpretation of Christianity, there is very little difference between Christianity and Islam. Now I know I will get a lot of criticism here for saying that, but, that is what I believe.
peace -
I am most certainly a monotheist. The reason I still call myself a Christian is because of my own interpretation of Christianity. I do not believe that you have to accept Jesus as the "Son of God" or that he was divine, nor the existence of the trinity (which makes no sense at all). I believe that to be a Christian you just have to accept the message God gave us though Jesus (commonly called Christ). To me that makes most people Christian EXCEPT those that believe in the trinity and that Jesus was somehow God, they are not Christians, they are just as pagan as the "traditionalists" in the other religions.
What if I said 'I am a satanist except that I do not believe in any of the practices or sayings or beliefs of satanism.'
Obviously such statement makes no sence and hence my affiliation with satanism would be false/empty.
If you reject jesus being the son of God, and you reject the trinity, and you reject the doctorine of instant fogiveness gained through the belief in jesus, then youare not a christian nor does it make sence that you continue to affiliate yourself with such a system (its like somone rejecting the sunna but insisting to be called 'sunni'!).
Maybe I am wrong, but I tend to believe that, using my interpretation of Christianity, there is very little difference between Christianity and Islam. Now I know I will get a lot of criticism here for saying that, but, that is what I believe.
Hmmm. One is pagan and will gurantee you admission to Hell, while the other is God given and gives those who submit to its teachings a far better chance of being accepted by God and admitted to Paradise.
