Fish is haram 4 Quran Alone adept according to Sunni Cheikh
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Obviously we are not the one's who slaughter/kill the animal in the situation shown in the above verse - it is the hunting animals who do so. Consequently, we cannot mention God's name upon the prey while it is being killed/slaughtered. We are told that we are to MENTION GOD'S NANE AFTER THE HUNTING ANIMAL(S) HAS/HAVE KILLED THE PREY.
The hunting animals are trained to catch and not to kill see the pic below if you wish i can show you more similar pics.pics
http//img41.imageshack.us/img41/3387/image018n.jpg
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Peace Nabster,
Reading your posts, I see you are bringing a lot of 'baggage' into these topics which is possibly causing you some misery and also affecting your ability to reach a rational conclusion.
Just start with a clean slate...forget your sunni experience, forget all the past teachings...Start with the Quran and nothing else.
Regards,
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Salam Justice,
Salam brothers, Layth and all others that think that the people of the book can not be refere to as the modern christians with us but rather the ancient Nazarene sect that lived some thousand years ago. You assert that those who claimed that jesus is the son of God are the deviant sect which todays christians could be relate to. Because God says they are kufar's. Are you guys forgetting 930 were God informed us that the jews claimed Ezra to be God's son and the Nazarenes claimed jesus to be God's son. Now we know that the Nazarenes=Kufar's=christians. But it is important to note that not all christians take jesus to be son of God.
Thank you for your post. After examining 930, I stand corrected. The Nazaranes & Christians are indeed one in the same and all are rejecters/kuffar (with the exception of those few who adhere to God alone).
The 'people of the book' it seems are none of these devient groups but are the people who have received the Torah/Injeel and are still upholding them 568.
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Peace Layth,
It is much worse than that...
and in some little ways better as well...
very long story of my life...
thank you for your concern...
for now, i feel confident that the current christians and jews are people of the book, who among them have true muslims, and now
by extension the current "muslims" in general are also people of the book, who among them have true muslims...
I also do not reject all hadiths 100%, I have some extra criteria by which to judge them, e.g. any hadith that has to do with legislation is for me unacceptable, any hadith that favours a ruling elite is unacceptable, all hadiths that are used as tools of crowd control are also not acceptable, hadith that defame the Prophet are not acceptable, hadith used to exploit, coerce, manipulate are unacceptable, etc.
It does not leave much, but what interests me are historical fragments, or hints that could be used for further research scholarly, empirical or archeological, and even looking for relics to shed some light on the missing dots we are trying to decipher, and unfortunately since Imam Shafie put a straightjacket on scholars to justify any writings with hadith, it is my hope that despite that, there is some remnants of history that can be salvaged to give some further insights into the true history and timeline of the Prophet's life, and the timeline of the revelation of the Quran too...Peace Nabster,
Reading your posts, I see you are bringing a lot of 'baggage' into these topics which is possibly causing you some misery and also affecting your ability to reach a rational conclusion.
Just start with a clean slate...forget your sunni experience, forget all the past teachings...Start with the Quran and nothing else.
Regards,
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Peace all,
In regard to the issue of "People of the Book" (POB)
It is clear that POB is a title that is given to the groups whom had received the Quran, Bible, and /or Torah regardless if they follow its correct teachings or misled by wrong teachings and became Mushreks and/ Kaffer.
Therefore, I disagree with Layth in this point.In regard to eating Dead animals
I believe, as Edip mentioned before, for a health reason, God is forbidden us to eat any animal that we find dead, either it is a fish, crab, squid, or a cow.
In regard to the Halal Meat
It is clear that the portion of Meat (or any kind of Food) that Christian, Jew, sunni, or Muslim offer in the name of any one (e.g., prophet Mohamed, Prophet Jesus, Sida Zinab (daughter of the prophet) in order to get his or her bless in order to reach God's bless, is not Halal for us to eat.
6145 Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except carrion, running blood, the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, or anything (not just meat) blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Merciful.
If we do not have knowledge that the above was the case, it is Halal for us to eat (Because they are the people of the Book, either misguided or not)
On the other hand, we should not eat any animal that is killed by any one who is not from the POB.
Peace
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Peace all,
In regard to eating Dead animals
I believe, as Edip mentioned before, for a health reason, God is forbidden us to eat any animal that we find dead, either it is a fish, crab, squid, or a cow.
6145 Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except carrion, running blood, the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, or anything (not just meat) blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Merciful.
Peace
Brother !
You are right. All dead animal no matter what their category is are Haraam as per Quran
It includes
-land animals
-Sea animals
-BirdsRegards
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But what about us who consume "dead Fish" and consider it as Halaal.
If the Fish became dead due to someone had fished it out of the Water, then it is as the meat that you eat from a dead cow that was killed by someone.
Again, All Animals (e.g., Fish, Cow, Bird) that we found dead due to unknown cause are not healthy for us to eat, and therefore, God Forbidden us from eating it.
Example, if you were by the Ocean and found a dead Fish, you are forbidden by God to eat, as if you were to find a dead Cow in the street.
Because if you eat both, you will be very sick.
Peace -
Peace Nabster,
thank you for your concern...
for now, i feel confident that the current christians and jews are people of the book, who among them have true muslims, and now
by extension the current "muslims" in general are also people of the book, who among them have true muslims...
I also do not reject all hadiths 100%, I have some extra criteria by which to judge them, e.g. any hadith that has to do with legislation is for me unacceptable, any hadith that favours a ruling elite is unacceptable, all hadiths that are used as tools of crowd control are also not acceptable, hadith that defame the Prophet are not acceptable, hadith used to exploit, coerce, manipulate are unacceptable, etc.
It does not leave much, but what interests me are historical fragments, or hints that could be used for further research scholarly, empirical or archeological, and even looking for relics to shed some light on the missing dots we are trying to decipher, and unfortunately since Imam Shafie put a straightjacket on scholars to justify any writings with hadith, it is my hope that despite that, there is some remnants of history that can be salvaged to give some further insights into the true history and timeline of the Prophet's life, and the timeline of the revelation of the Quran too...I understand the process you have described and I believe many will continue to favor some sort of balance (though not as meticulous as the steps taht you pointed to). We have all gone through many changes/stages to fine tune ourselves to what we hope is the correct path/understanding - I myself find the path of abondonment of all literature other than the Quran to be the most reliable, but, as I said, we each find our own way
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Peace all,
The problem with the Guy in Youtube is "He Believes that the ONLY Prescribed way, by God, to kill an animal is by Slaughtering" , however, this is not True.
There is no mentioning of such way of killing an animal in the Quran, rather, a Killed animal by Hunting or by a Beast is allowed for us to eat.
That is why He thinks that because Fish is not Slaughtered after being fished out of the water, therefore it is Dead...and therefore, we need the Hadith that gave us the permission to eat. Everyday passes, this people loss their logic.
I do not say that the Hadith about the fish is not true, rather, we can not claim that God forget to tell us about the Fish, and therefore, the Prophet had to do so (and therefore, the hadiths are as essential as the Quran) ...Maybe, some people had asked the Prophet, and therefore, He answered them by using the Quran to understand the way to answer.The main Goal of this people is not about the Fish, rather it is about permitting Stoning To Death for the Married Who Commits fornication, permitting the teaching of Grave Punishment Hadiths, and all the other lies that adds to and/ or deletes from the Quran Knowledge. And that is not acceptable, Because, adding will Lead to Shrik and Deleting will Lead to Koffer.
Peace
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Peace all,
The problem with the Guy in Youtube is "He Believes that the ONLY Prescribed way, by God, to kill an animal is by Slaughtering" , however, this is not True.
There is no mentioning of such way of killing an animal in the Quran, rather, a Killed animal by Hunting or by a Beast is allowed for us to eat.
That is why He thinks that because Fish is not Slaughtered after being fished out of the water, therefore it is Dead...and therefore, we need the Hadith that gave us the permission to eat. Everyday passes, this people loss their logic.
I do not say that the Hadith about the fish is not true, rather, we can not claim that God forget to tell us about the Fish, and therefore, the Prophet had to do so (and therefore, the hadiths are as essential as the Quran) ...Maybe, some people had asked the Prophet, and therefore, He answered them by using the Quran to understand the way to answer.The main Goal of this people is not about the Fish, rather it is about permitting Stoning To Death for the Married Who Commits fornication, permitting the teaching of Grave Punishment Hadiths, and all the other lies that adds to and/ or deletes from the Quran Knowledge. And that is not acceptable, Because, adding will Lead to Shrik and Deleting will Lead to Koffer.
Peace
Peace
Then please define "maitatun" ( ). Thanks in advance.
Regards -
Peace Q_student,
Then please define "maitatun" ( ). Thanks in advance.
Forgive me for interrupting the discussion between Belal and you but correct me if I am wrong. Logically it cannot mean "dead", otherwise the god would be implying that we should only eat animals or fish or whatever while they are alive and kicking.
I think that several passages in the great reading clearly indicate that there is a difference depending on how one dies (Free-Minds Translation)
3156 O you who believe do not be like those who rejected and said to their brothers when they had gone forth in the land or on the offensive If they were here with us they would not have died nor been killed. God will make this a source of grief in their hearts, and God grants life and death, and God is watching over what you do.
2258 And those who emigrated in the cause of God, then they were killed or died, God will provide them with a good provision, and God is the best of providers.
3144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many messengers who have passed before him. If he dies or is killed will you turn back on your heels? And whoever turns back on his heels, he will not harm God in the least. And God will recompense the thankful.
Clearly, the term is used in relation to dying of natural causes in contrast to being killed.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Q_student,
Forgive me for interrupting the discussion between Belal and you but correct me if I am wrong. Logically it cannot mean "dead", otherwise the god would be implying that we should only eat animals or fish or whatever while they are alive and kicking.
rotfl
Hyenas do eat alive and kicking animals ;D
http//i1.ytimg.com/vi/tdCC-XEYt-Q/default.jpg
Hyenas eating a Buffalo alive -
Peace Layth
Thank you for your kind words.
Some extra insights.
For me it was like a pendulum, I went from one extreme to the other.
At one stage not questioning anything, then questioning everything,
and now using reason and caution.
I think what one of the gravest mistakes the second generation of scholars did (the ones who won
the legal and intellectual battle as to how to set up the islamic system / legal framework, the main architect for the sunnis
Imam Shafie, for the Shia maybe Imam Yaqoub al-Kulainy) was- to endorse the acceptability of compiling hadiths about the Prophet and sahaba and 2. to endorse hadiths as a source of Law.
- allowing by implications that all hadiths even not attributable to Mohammed became his hadiths too!!!
As a result, this spawned the hadith factories that we know of, i.e Bukhari, Tirmidhi, Kitab Al Kafi, etc
If for instance those early scholars said, ok we tolerate that there are sayings of The Prophet circulating, but they are not binding and we are not using them, we would have known where they came from, we would have gotten a better idea about timelines, there would have been far less incentives for corruption...
but Allah willed it otherwise, if you look at it, it is again to fulfill certain prophecies that have come to pass...
and He knows best what His Scheme is... -
Peace,
Of course is not a "Natural Death", and therefor, the Fish is killed when fished out of the water.
Peace
Peace
It means we can eat those animals which die because of some poisoning. If take hens 100 and poison them with Carbon monoxide ,can those be considered Halaal as per Quran ?
We should not forget that is it is sort of Strangling for the Fish because of production of Free Oxygen radicles which damage external and internal respiratory systems of it.
Regards -
Peace
It means we can eat those animals which die because of some poisoning. If take hens 100 and poison them with Carbon monoxide ,can those be considered Halaal as per Quran ?
We should not forget that is it is sort of Strangling for the Fish because of production of Free Oxygen radicles which damage external and internal respiratory systems of it.
RegardsPeaec,
Men have been practicing Fishing since their first creation. Moreover, they use to catch fish but did not used to slaughter them in order to kill.
If God were to think that this way would cause the fish to die in a way that would cause the fish to be prohibited for us to eat, then God would have instructed Men otherwise; rather, God Instructed us that Fishing is Lawful for us as a way to kill and eat the sea creatures.we should only eat animals or fish or whatever while they are alive and kicking.
By the way, that is how I like my Fish cooked, "alive and Kicking" on the top of my Scorching Grill. eat
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Peaec,
Men have been practicing Fishing since their first creation. Moreover, they use to catch fish but did not used to slaughter them in order to kill.
If God were to think that this way would cause the fish to die in a way that would cause the fish to be prohibited for us to eat, then God would have instructed Men otherwise; rather, God Instructed us that Fishing is Lawful for us as a way to kill and eat the sea creatures.By the way, that is how I like my Fish cooked, "alive and Kicking" on the top of my Scorching Grill. eat
Fishing is lawful as hunting is lawful. Being hunting lawful does not mean we start eating strangle animals which are clearly prohibited. Exactly God has made lawful not but .How does it imply that dead animals/ strangled animals have become lawful for us.
That is true we cannot eat "Kicking animals".BTW what is the Quranic method of Killing the Halaal animals for eating puposes ?
Regards
