Quran only?
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WHat is explained, 4 ayats were quoted here and the last one in bold type.
I dont know which translation you are using but this is Yusuf Ali version
29. "He did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah. after it had come to me! Ah! the Evil One is but a traitor to man!" Then the Messenger will say-
"O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."
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Thus have We made for every prophet an enemy among the sinners but enough is thy Lord to guide and to help.
You guys must love this ayat in YOUR translation 'my people rejected this Quran', and want to make a new religion based on it. you cant , you cannot make up such a dynamic inference based on 1 ayat you have to read before and after and ponder the general meaning
Give me ONE, JUST ONE, verse in the Quran that tells us to FOLLOW HADITHS. Also, what do you make of this verse?
1746 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord (rabbaka) in (fee) the Quran alone (al quran wahdahu), they run away turning their backs in aversion.
Also, why would God have sent down a whole book and then make his messenger authorize books that are 100x bigger? Does this make sense? Is the Quran incomplete? Does it lack detail?
6114 "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?" Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
6115 The word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing/abrogating His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
4221 Or do they have partners who decree for them a sharia which has not been authorized by God? If it were not for the word already given, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors will have a painful retribution.
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Peace,
Just wanted to add some of my favourite verses to this discussion
Those who disbelieve among the People of the Book and the idolaters were not about to change their ways until they were sent clear evidence.... Yet those who were given the Scriputure became divided only after they were sent clear evidence though all they are ordered to do is WORSHIP GOD ALONE...(981-6)
That's all Allah asks us to do. If he wanted us to read the hadiths he would say so in his Qu'ran. God does not run out of words. He wouldn't write a vague message for us to interpret to mean follow the hadiths.
In actual fact there is a verse in The Qur'an when the Prophet tried to make up his own religious law and Allah shows him why this is wrong. I cannot remember the actual verse, does anyone else no what I'm talking about?
I don't need any other books in my faith. We haven't "made up a new religion". I submit to God Alone. THAT is true Islam, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
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I mean sound hadiths as in perserved over time, proven in real life like the ones prohesizing a lot of the status of the world today and how we are near the Qiyama. and Yes Bukhari may Allah reward him for all his efforts and sacrifices
Could there be a chance of one or two inaccurate hadiths, maybe, will i reject the books of hadiths in its entiry absolutely not, i am mitigating a strong risk of the hellfire
how do I know the hadith have validity, I havent seen any that contradict the Quran and I am sure you have many bring and them on and lets discuss them
in addition, my favorite ayats in the quran is 'to those who believe we show clear signs'Really? None that you see that contradict the Qur'an???
How about
killing of apostates
the status of women
the hadith that says an adulterer must be stoned (not in Qur'an, lashing is the only punishment)
intercession -
Really? None that you see that contradict the Qur'an???
How about
killing of apostates
the status of women
the hadith that says an adulterer must be stoned (not in Qur'an, lashing is the only punishment)
intercessionAdding to the list that goes on and on
- Ablution
56 O you who acknowledge, when you rise to attend the contact prayer, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you could not find water, then you shall do ablution from clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands. God does not want to make any hardship over you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative.
Is this how you do your ablution?
Next point dietary laws
2173 He has only forbidden for you what is already dead, the blood, the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God. Whoever finds himself forced out of need and without disobedience or animosity, there is no sin upon him. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
Are these your only rules or did you add to God's law, which is, btw, idolatry?
2174 Surely, those who conceal what God has sent down of the book, and purchase with it a cheap price; they will not eat into their stomachs except the fire, and God will not speak to them on the day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they will have a painful retribution.
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That's all Allah asks us to do. If he wanted us to read the hadiths he would say so in his Qu'ran.
?He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His ayaat, purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the Hikmah. And verily, they had been before in manifest error?
I am curious as to what you guys think the 'hikmah' is, arabic definition of hikma is knowledge? this is repeated in other verses.
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If everyone followed the Quran only, would that long war between Iran and Iraq ever have been fought? Would Iraq have ever invaded Saudi Arabia?
If the people followed the Quran alone,
• There would have been no Iraq iran of saudi arabia why?
• because most of the sunna (excellence in human interactions, ie trade, neighborly goodwill..) with which the sahaba helped spread islam is missing from the equation
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?He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His ayaat, purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the Hikmah. And verily, they had been before in manifest error?
I am curious as to what you guys think the 'hikmah' is, arabic definition of hikma is knowledge? this is repeated in other verses.
peace
if you went to the doctors, complaining of pain, and the doctor gave you 1 box of pills, and said "here is a box of pills and a cure"
where is the cure?
peace
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becarefull- knowledge,
You may wish to read
http//mahjoorquran.blogspot.com/2006/11/authority-of-al-quran-by-kashif-ahmed.htmlThe topic of what is "hikma" is discussed in it.
I read the section on Hikmah, he is not providing anything whatsover to disclaim that hikma is knowledge in addition to the Qruan. he quotes an ayat that is supposed to support this but see below for yusuf ali's version
Yusuf alis version
39. These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.
his version
"This is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of ?Hikmah? (wisdom), and do not associate any other god with Allah lest you should be thrown into hell, blamed, cast away." (1739)IF Allah intended for us to know that the wisdom that Muhamad (PBUH) is bringing is the Quran itself and only the Quran, why didnt the Quran say the Quran and its wisdom as opposed the quran and the wisdom(hikmah)??
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peace
if you went to the doctors, complaining of pain, and the doctor gave you 1 box of pills, and said "here is a box of pills and a cure"
where is the cure?
peace
If the doctor doesnt explain when, how and how many to take, you might just say I am sick i want this pain to disappear and will take 20 pills ovedose and die.
The cure is not just the pills but in the instruction, all medicine has toxicollogy studies to see what is a safe level and what has the most effect on a disease, and then doctors who assess you to see what best fits your needs. THey are part of the cure.
as you see from my example of the active ingredient (The pill) in this case the Quran, you need instructions or hikma as the Quran itself stated,to which explains what its teaching, which is the hadith,
you reject hadith, you reject half of the equation of Quran and hikma. you might just get it right but then you might get your self sick. the same applies spiritually if you are only using the Quran and using yourbiased vulnerable mental resource to interpret it vs the 'Hikmah' of Muhamad PBUH to do it for you (the Quran clearly details Muhamad's qualifications to do so). -
I read the section on Hikmah, he is not providing anything whatsover to disclaim that hikma is knowledge in addition to the Qruan. he quotes an ayat that is supposed to support this but see below for yusuf ali's version
Yusuf alis version
39. These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.
his version
"This is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of ?Hikmah? (wisdom), and do not associate any other god with Allah lest you should be thrown into hell, blamed, cast away." (1739)IF Allah intended for us to know that the wisdom that Muhamad (PBUH) is bringing is the Quran itself and only the Quran, why didnt the Quran say the Quran and its wisdom as opposed the quran and the wisdom(hikmah)??
Br. BCKnowledge
I think I might be able to clarify this a bit.
I'm sure you're familiar with the names of Allah in the Quran. We see a couple of them in 13 (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem). These names define Allah's attributes, "The All-Compassionate", "The All-Merciful". I believe you will agree to that.
Similar, The Quran has different names which are mentioned in the Book, which indicate its attributes. It's been called Furqan (The Criterion) and Quran (The Reading) among other things. Hikmah (The Wisdom) is simply another attribute of the Quran, which alludes to its importance to the believers.
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becarefull- knowledge,
If you did in fact read all of the section on what is "hikma", you will have seen that "hikma" is an attribute of al-kitab, amongst other points made. But lets go to your apparent objection you have by quoting Yusuf Ali's translation. Please be aware Yusuf Ali is NOT the authority on Al Quran, and his translation is not perfect, like all translations. So, let me clarify for you
dhlika = singular masculine demonstrative pronoun
The above means it can only mean "this" or "that" NOT "these" so Yusuf Ali is 100% incorrect. So, let's translate it correctly
"This/that is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of hikmah/wisdom...
It obviously refers to the ayatin/signs before this point. As you can see it clearly refutes your position.
Of course, that does not mean all possible hikma/wisdom is in Al Quran, as this claim would be nonsensical, hence the partitive "min" is used.
I recommend reading up on the history of hadith and sunna, e.g.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htm -
Peace
Hikma is a very vast term which has been used in the Quran for the Quran itself ,for the Bible and Torah as well as for knowledge and science Practical and theoretical.- ( 1 / 686)
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As per Lane Lexicon
Knowledge or science ,knowledge of true nature of things and action according to the requirements thereof, and therefore it is divided into intellectual and practical or a state or quality ,of the intellectual faculty.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume2/00000253.pdf
Regards
- ( 1 / 686)
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If the doctor doesnt explain when, how and how many to take, you might just say I am sick i want this pain to disappear and will take 20 pills ovedose and die.
The cure is not just the pills but in the instruction, all medicine has toxicollogy studies to see what is a safe level and what has the most effect on a disease, and then doctors who assess you to see what best fits your needs. THey are part of the cure.
as you see from my example of the active ingredient (The pill) in this case the Quran, you need instructions or hikma as the Quran itself stated,to which explains what its teaching, which is the hadith,
you reject hadith, you reject half of the equation of Quran and hikma. you might just get it right but then you might get your self sick. the same applies spiritually if you are only using the Quran and using yourbiased vulnerable mental resource to interpret it vs the 'Hikmah' of Muhamad PBUH to do it for you (the Quran clearly details Muhamad's qualifications to do so).Peace
Maybe the instructions are in with the pills? They usually are. Maybe you open the pills and didn't look hard enough for the intructions, in the excitement of it all.
So you think, "If the instructions are not in with the pills, then I will go looking elsewhere" so you go looking on the internet for the correct dosage and keep getting conflicting information.
By the way, have you ever thought about this statement? "The Qur'an is the authentic Hadith"
Hope this helps
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us aright.
Peace
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Peace
Maybe the instructions are in with the pills? They usually are. Maybe you open the pills and didn't look hard enough for the intructions, in the excitement of it all.
So you think, "If the instructions are not in with the pills, then I will go looking elsewhere" so you go looking on the internet for the correct dosage and keep getting conflicting information.
By the way, have you ever thought about this statement? "The Qur'an is the authentic Hadith"
Hope this helps
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us aright.
Peace
Sorry Quran alone is not enough we need tempt
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By the way, have you ever thought about this statement? "The Qur'an is the authentic Hadith"
I heard this concept in these forums, The Quran is authentic from Allah, the hadith are authentic (most) from Muhamad. If taken as a whole will put you in a certain direction but as some people do picking and choosing can take you anywhere because just like the Quran, the hadith have time, perspective and additional background specifics that need consideration before deciphiring the meanings.
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As per Lane Lexicon
Knowledge or science ,knowledge of true nature of things and action according to the requirements thereof, and therefore it is divided into intellectual and practical or a state or quality ,of the intellectual faculty.
RegardsTo be honest the above definition looks pretty reflective of the prophet's hadiths. 'knowledge of the tru nature of things...divided into intelectual and practical'.
the hadith are exactly that if not more , I have uncovered so much intelectually from hadith into the spiritual world, the material world and especially social settings, and there is alot of inherrent practicality in them.
I will like to restate as I have early on, I am very new and learning this religion and will try to be cautious to not state anything of authoritive nature on a scholarly level about hadiths, but I am amazed with the little that i know from khutbas and readings. THey have a central voice,
the hadiths that I dont understand or feel comfortable with I am patient to get the guidance to their wisdome if they are indeed from the prophet (PBUH) if not to avoid them. -
becarefull- knowledge,
If you did in fact read all of the section on what is "hikma", you will have seen that "hikma" is an attribute of al-kitab, amongst other points made. But lets go to your apparent objection you have by quoting Yusuf Ali's translation. Please be aware Yusuf Ali is NOT the authority on Al Quran, and his translation is not perfect, like all translations. So, let me clarify for you
dhlika = singular masculine demonstrative pronoun
The above means it can only mean "this" or "that" NOT "these" so Yusuf Ali is 100% incorrect. So, let's translate it correctly
"This/that is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of hikmah/wisdom...
Of course, that does not mean all possible hikma/wisdom is in Al Quran, as this claim would be nonsensical, hence the partitive "min" is used.
I recommend reading up on the history of hadith and sunna, e.g.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htmI am not an arabic linguist/english scholar to play into various translations, I hope to one day investigate furhter the various translations of the Quran. but lets get 2 more translations.
"This is (part) of that wisdom wherewith thy Lord hath inspired thee (O Muhammad). And set not up with Allah any other god, lest thou be cast into hell, reproved, abandoned"
Piktal
This is (part) of Al-Hikmah (wisdom, good manners and high character) which your Lord has revealed to you (O Muhammad SAW )
Dr MohsinTHis is part of the hikma. the knowledge or whatever definiithion you give to hikma is in the Quran. everything in the hadith as a message is in the quran also. there are rules in the quran there are rules inthe hadith. there are wisdom into things we cant see in the quran same in the hadith. there are practical application type instructions in the quran same in the hadith.
off course there is hikma in the quran but also in hadith as the above ayats state this is of or part of the hikma provided to you ( portion of it, meaning there is more) you guys are only taking this portion and leaving out the remaining hikma provided to Muhamad (PBUH)
