Collection of the quran, before or after muhammad
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I was given this hadith by a Paulian. What say of it?
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari, one of the scribes of the Revelation Abu Bakr sent for me after the casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said "Umar has come to me and said, the People have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be some casualties among the Qurra (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other places, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an.' Abu Bakr added, 'I said to 'Umar, "How can I do something which Allah's Apostle has not done?" 'Umar said (to me) "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing". So 'Umar kept on pressing trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as 'Umar'. (Zaid bin Thabit added) 'Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. Abu Bakr said (to me), 'You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness); and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript)'. By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, 'How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?' Abu Bakr said, 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and 'Umar. So I started locating the Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leafstalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two verses of Suras at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else (and they were)
'Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from among yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty. He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)' (912.
The manuscript on which the Qur'an was collected, re- mained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with 'Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, 'Umar's daughter.
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If we consider the arrangement of the Quran.. the mathematical composition behind it and so on... there is no doubt that the Quran was already compiled in the time of the Messenger himself under his own supervision who, himself was under the direct supervision of Allah... So I guess we should not care about these compilation stories... considering the so many incoherent report on this matter we have from hadiths.. Like missing surahs, missing verses, the size of Quran shrinked, Abu Bakr omitted some verses purposely etc etc... It will be a headache which goes for nothing as we got no point of reference to verify these stories... the main moral of the story is... the Quran reached us... Allah made it reach us... Allah is its Guardian... So, we should not be worrying about the Quran .... Let his Guardian take care of it.
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255 They said, "Mythologies of the ancient people; he wrote them down while they were being dictated to him morning and evening."
961 Read in the name of your Lord who has created.
963 Read, and your Lord is the Generous One.
964 The One who taught by the pen
Anymore doubt?
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255 They said, "Mythologies of the ancient people; he wrote them down while they were being dictated to him morning and evening."
961 Read in the name of your Lord who has created.
963 Read, and your Lord is the Generous One.
964 The One who taught by the pen
Anymore doubt?
The individual would still be able to get away with saying "oh they just wrote it on separate parts, but no collections into one whole". One would need either a contradicting hadith, or the isnad of the said hadith to be weak or explained. Or the quran saying that the quran was completed...
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If we consider the arrangement of the Quran.. the mathematical composition behind it and so on... there is no doubt that the Quran was already compiled in the time of the Messenger himself under his own supervision who, himself was under the direct supervision of Allah... So I guess we should not care about these compilation stories... considering the so many incoherent report on this matter we have from hadiths.. Like missing surahs, missing verses, the size of Quran shrinked, Abu Bakr omitted some verses purposely etc etc... It will be a headache which goes for nothing as we got no point of reference to verify these stories... the main moral of the story is... the Quran reached us... Allah made it reach us... Allah is its Guardian... So, we should not be worrying about the Quran .... Let his Guardian take care of it.
Peace
Where is that original Quranic script which was written in the Time of Muhammad PBUH ?
Waiting for evidence.
Regards -
2210
Are they waiting until GOD Himself comes to them in dense clouds, together with the angels? When this happens, the whole matter will be terminated, and to GOD everything will be returned.Do you need God to give you the book in your hand so you can become righteous?
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and what's the oldest Quran we have today?
Peace
Question is not that of "oldest" or newest". I am asking about that script which was supposedly got written by Prophet Muhammad PBUH. That should be the original and most reliable.
Where is that ? Is this lost?Regards
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Probably this one.
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/hussein.html
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/Peace ;
Mushaf-e-uthmani was written during era of Hazrat Uthman RA. I am talking about that Script which was written during the life of Prophet MUhammad PBUH which is being claimed.
Where is that Original script ? Because then all problems are solved like 19er about verse of Sura Tauba.
Regards -
Peace ;
Mushaf-e-uthmani was written during era of Hazrat Uthman RA. I am talking about that Script which was written during the life of Prophet MUhammad PBUH which is being claimed.
Where is that Original script ? Because then all problems are solved like 19er about verse of Sura Tauba.
RegardsAs you can see in these links none are from Uthman ra time.
It is just a name they were given to.
peace -
The individual would still be able to get away with saying "oh they just wrote it on separate parts, but no collections into one whole". One would need either a contradicting hadith, or the isnad of the said hadith to be weak or explained. Or the quran saying that the quran was completed...
I'd counter with
7517 It is for Us to collect it (jamahu) and relate/compile it (quranahu).
7518 So when We relate/compile it, you shall follow its reading.
7519 Then it is for Us to explain it.
618 They wish to put out God's light with their mouths, but God will continue with His light, even if the concealers of the truth/rejecters/ingrates (kafiroon) hate it.
BTW, as seen from the above verses, God collected and compiled/related the Quran/reading.
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I'd counter with
7517 It is for Us to collect it (jamahu) and relate/compile it (quranahu).
7518 So when We relate/compile it, you shall follow its reading.
7519 Then it is for Us to explain it.
618 They wish to put out God's light with their mouths, but God will continue with His light, even if the concealers of the truth/rejecters/ingrates (kafiroon) hate it.
BTW, as seen from the above verses, God collected and compiled/related the Quran/reading.
Peace These traslations might be true.
How is it that mushaf is the same as written in the era of Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
Secondly that contains those two verses which you (your messenger RK) has removed.So do you believe in them ?
Regards -
Peace
I have a burning question. If there existed a Quran in the time of the prophet e.g. written in the supervision or by the prophet, how come it is lost? How irresponsible of the people of the day to have misplaced or lost the most important book of all time. Surely people would have lost their lives and taken precausions to make sure of its safety and preservation. This really puzzles me. However, there is no denying that over the years the Quran has managed to find its way back, otherwise we would have found many contradictions, right? Probably why the Quran was memorised and also writen down to help its preservation. I dont think however, that anyone in this forum has the answer and that unless we get unbiased access into the middle east to carry out archaeological finds we wont understand our past.
Peace
Hope
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Just a name ? Evidence ?
RegardsYou funny sometimes ;D (no offense)
An archeological eveidence is not enough for you.
The links explains that the Uthman Quran is date end of 1 century, begining od 2nd century (Hijri).
So either Uthman lived long long time, either there were NOT from Uthman time.Choose the one that best fits your "understang", "wishes", "passion" or call it however you like.
Peace
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You funny sometimes ;D (no offense)
An archeological eveidence is not enough for you.
The links explains that the Uthman Quran is date end of 1 century, begining od 2nd century (Hijri).
So either Uthman lived long long time, either there were NOT from Uthman time.Choose the one that best fits your "understang", "wishes", "passion" or call it however you like.
Peace
Definitely agree on this... The 'Manuscripts of Sana' found in yemen are the oldest known quranic parchment ever discovered I think....
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Quran never tells us to
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go find the 'mushaf' of mohamed
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go find some codex in a museum
Rather, it is preserved in rememberance/eminence, dhikr. That's why it tells us to ask ahl adh adhikr.
We dont need to be Indiana bleedin' Jones to have the 'original quran'. Rather we need to ask these archeologists and historians
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why do they trust conflicting accounts of quran's compilation? (mostly in hadith literature)
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why is it, when quran calls itself 'kitab', they dont take it to mean its compiled as a book?
think about it Would the messenger (even if he was a false messenger, he'd want to selfishly preserve his falsehood) and this band of fanatics treat the book as if its something they can afford to lose?
and strangely, Muslims today swallow this tripe about quran's compilation
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