The difference between us and sunnis/shias
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"Everyone has his own reasons" This is the summary of your complaint! REASON, worse OWN reason. It must be nor reason; correct? Well, perhaps it is okay to have reason, but it must be only MY REASON!
You have spilled the beans my dear friend with two words that you have biggest problem
OWN
REASONor
Owning Reason.
or
Not following someone else blindly.
or
Not acting like robots.
or
Believing that each will be responsible for their OWN choice.
I think you summarized the best thing about those who do not follow hadith and sunna. They are FREE people who are not scared of using THEIR OWN (not a fascist mind-controller's) reason.
Peace,
Edip)
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he reads the Quran
Does he read the quran in arabic without knowing the meaning like most sunnis?
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I hate that. Sometimes when you show people translations they begin to cringe or act funny.
It is a novel conept we must try to actually read and UNDERSTAND Allah's word without relying on someone to do it for us.
bravo you are right.
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Doesn't look that way to me and I know that he both speaks and reads arabic.
But I heared some arabic speakers do not understand the quran. Why is that? or is the source which I got information wrong?
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But I heared some arabic speakers do not understand the quran. Why is that? or is the source which I got information wrong?
I think the translation game is part the reason for that. Insisting that arabic is a magical language that never change while it certainly has...and a lot. He understands it from a street level, but when I look at how this man behaves himself, I am certain that I have more to learn from him than visa versa, atleast as a person. The few theological differences between us are just that and who really knows? The sheer arrogance I have met in the God/Quran alone community can take on the worst of sunnis on their best of days and still come out the bigger more self rightious wanker.
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In conjunction with the last post, I really hate it when people glorify Arabic. I was asking my Saudi room mate if he knew anything about writing left to right vs right to left. I said that Hindi is written left to right and that most of the living languages aside from Hebrew that are written right to left descend from the Arabic script (Farsi, Urdu, ect), and that the number of languages that are written left to right outnumber the languages written right to left.
How does all of this stuff tie in with the discussion
My room mate Well Arabic is the language of the Quran, and.....
brickwall Well Sanskrit is the language of the Vedas so......? (my roommate doesn't even know what the Vedas is lol......)
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I understand exactly what you mean. I usually get the same reaction when I tell people that Hebrew is the language of the Torah, and Aramaic is the language of the Injiyl. People start having ridiculous ideas that God has a certain language and that He can't understand any other ones...
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But I heared some arabic speakers do not understand the quran. Why is that? or is the source which I got information wrong?
You might want to read an introduction on Arabic such as on
http//arabic.tripod.com/Intro.htmIn short, the Arabic as the speakers speak daily today (also their official version) might be (very) different to the Arabic that is used in the Quran (Classical Arabic or Quranic Arabic).
By the way, to Yaqub i can understand it if "the way" people glorify Arabic might come hate-able to you. However i will add that the Arabic as in the Quran does indeed sound "eloquent". While reciting Quran in Arabic (correctly and beautifully) without observing its meaning can be useless, doing the same while observing the meaning can be a wonderful experience. It is in some way, healing. That's for the peaceful, or 'good news' verses. As for some heavier verses (warnings), the sounds are not only also heavy (sometimes), but more difficult to pronounce as well.
And despite all the difficulties in translating the Arabic Quran to our own languages, i will not neglect the possibility that there might be reasons not yet made clear to us, as to why the Last Revelation is revealed in the Classical/Quranic Arabic.
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Thank you Ahmed Bilal
San, I do agree with your point. It would be wonderful to eloquently read, understand, and implement God's orders in the way they were revealed, and like you said who knows... we may find out why God revealed the Quran in Arabic soon....
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Hi, Yaqub, greetings from a new member here!
As for the original topic, I don't know how "us", "sunnis", and "shias" are grouped, classed or characterized. So i refrain from such perceived groupings.
I grew up in the Sunni tradition myself. However, after all the rages against the (put "suspected" here if you like) "lies" and "conspiracies", i came to pity and worry about those who are still basing their decisions on such mental and psychological tyrannies. Not that their lives have anything to do with mine, but still, you would want your families and friends to be believers in God alone, wouldn't you? Unless made clear to you the rights from the wrongs, you'd still have hope for them to be guided, wouldn't you?
Hate is of no use. Take evil for example. It is useless to hate evil. Stay away from it, yes, of course, just follow God and seek His protection. Why though, we would need to be angry to something that wants our anger, no matter what our anger is directed to? That is simply not peaceful. Wasted, useless, hate is. I came nearer to the conclusion that God's way is perfectly peaceful and of ease and of happiness. No need for all the negative emotions, and even no need to linger on difficulties. The simulation of heavenly life is already beginning when one submits to God entirely. God always remind us to return to Him after we make any fault, that is, in my opinion, so we don't linger on negativity too long. He wants us to quickly return back into peaceful state. Back to 'heaven' again.
That's why i would suggest if they bothered you, be patient. If they don't believe your view (and you got tired of them), leave them. Don't think anything bad about them, not because you "should", but because you would be better off thinking the good things out of them or anything else, for the peace of your own mind.
Instead of talking about the difference between "us" and "them", why don't we talk about what's the similar between "us", for a start. God knows what might bring His believers closer. Anything.
Peace, and may God relieves our hearts from the fires and ashes, and showers us with springs of peace
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welcome San to the forum.
Thank you for contributing and insightful post. Many new members come through here, but I get excited when people begin to post intelligent comments that show some wisdom.
I realize that the title of this thread is a little vague, and that it is pointless to pick at differences. I started this thread to cope with the initial negative encounters I had with the Sunni's in my community. However, since then, our relations have improved drastically. I found, like you said, that it was pointless to constantly pick at the behaviors and idiosyncracies among most sunni people. It just provokes argument and leads to nothing but animostiy and hurt feelings. I have also found that it is best to not discuss contraversial religious topics unless someone asks you first and shows general interest in learning about your opinion/arguments but that is another story in itself.
By the way, I like your writing style... are you a college student?
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Thanks Yaqub, you guessed right, though 'that is another story in itself' ;D
alhamdulillah, that your relations improved drastically since. Your 'let-it-out' topic is proven useful then
Yeah i see the point on that don't-discuss-it-until-you're-asked with those who are uncomfortably different to you. That is a better approach indeed--i've had some uncomfortable experiences in the opposite.
As for the 'insight', i'm a little ashamed for myself... I have not-so-memorable past with hatred/anger myself. So i would describe it as trial-by-fire experience. Now that i have much more reason to forgive, everything becomes easier. I still have issue with one of the basic deeds of reverence to God, as leftovers from the past habits. That's why i need a completely different view, that of God's absolute ease. I left the doctrine that 'religion is difficult'. That, suspiciously, has satanic sign on it--it opposes the view of "ease" in the Quran, for those who follow God and His message. Everything is easy for Him and we are invited to keep asking Him for ease.
And i'm still learning and practicing on this new "easy" view.
Peace,
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After about a year of contemplating, I have come to the conclusion that the different between us and shias/sunnis is that we believe in the freedom of interpreting religion, while they don't.
In a discussion today my friend were discussing random topics in Islam. He claimed that hadith are infallible, the prophet was infallible, the imams that interpret hadith are infallible (because hadith are so clear and elaborating that there are no two sides), ect.
This discussion basically epitomized my experiences with devout sunni/shiias
I just stood there with my mouth open (allegorically).
Any thoughts?
Peace,
I am providing some observation and thoughts on your post.
You opted to criticize others (shias/sunnis) without first explaining your positions/understanding adequately. And this is not very intelligent thing to do. A good post would have included the rationale behind your stated position.
Who is ?us??
You alone,
Free-minds.org,
All members of free-minds.org,
Some members of free-minds.org,
Acceptance of all the religious position advocated by this web site,
Acceptance of some religious position advocated by this web site,
And so onIn fact ?us? is guilty of the very thing you are accusing the sunnis of
If you read the threads, posts, articles and other documents on this web site very carefully you will find the followings in majority of them
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In the name of Quran alone, this web site produces modern hadith that contradicts Quran, God?s physical laws, and the innermost thoughts of righteous persons
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If you read these modern hadith carefully you will note that authors are either ill prepared, did not conduct sufficient research (your post being a case), do not adhere to God?s law, contradicts their position from thread to thread, not knowledgeable, etc.?..
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The sunnis hadith you are condemning is equivalent to hadith produced by free-minds.org via the use of selective classic Arabic dictionary meaning. No difference, you are replacing sunnis hadith with the classic dictionary. Note that the dictionary is not infallible
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Some on this site will advocate that you cannot breakfast fast at sunset, yet they will not define what night is. Any definition other than the sunset will be a contradiction. Let them produce the definition of night if they speak the truth
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One hadith will say you will have to fast in the summer time in violation of God?s law/guidance. This hadith makes Bukhari look real good you know
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Some moderator will proclaim themselves as good people; as if they don?t need to earn respect from other. This is a blatant violation of human decency
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If you present different views (although consistent with the Quran), some moderator will threaten you with throwing you out of the forum. They don?t have the decency to withdraw themselves from the dispute and let a third party settle the dispute. They do not honor the conflict of interest concepts. What bothers me the most is the tolerance of other moderators and the administrators when they are aware of such situations. This is like many good police officers getting bad name for few bad ones. This is not acceptable in God?s system unless the moderator in question invoke the curse of God on them for any unjustly act
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Another problematic thing is the title ?wise one? assigned by the web site to some members, where do they get the authority to call someone wise one when they are not. Just read their posts. One cannot call themselves worshipper of God alone and exhibits such behavior. You can?t have your cake and eat it too
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Another hadith is the unjustifiable use of Joseph?s plan (to keep his brother in Egypt via the cup steal plot) to generalized the punishment of thief. Yet, they are the one who advocates that if the God did not specifically say such and such thing in the Quran you can imply it. Be aware, they will prohibit you of doing something but they will use it when it suits their purpose
Here is an example of how the use of classic Arabic dictionary can lead many people astray.
4912 - O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe God. God is Redeemer, Merciful.
This is the translation of ?us? that allows for suspicion which violate the God given fundamental right of an innocent human i.e. human dignity. This translation allows for illegal search and many other corruptions in the system. Such system cannot be God?s system period.
Contrast the above translation with the below translation which does not violate human dignity nor does it allow corrupted system.
4912 - O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.
Which one does your innermost tells you to accept? The distinction is very clear God vs. satan (my opinion of course).
I recommend you to read the following thread of belH. This is one of the best threads on this site.
Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
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I understand exactly what you mean. I usually get the same reaction when I tell people that Hebrew is the language of the Torah, and Aramaic is the language of the Injiyl. People start having ridiculous ideas that God has a certain language and that He can't understand any other ones...
Then why do the call God, "God"? laugh
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You might want to read an introduction on Arabic such as on
http//arabic.tripod.com/Intro.htmIn short, the Arabic as the speakers speak daily today (also their official version) might be (very) different to the Arabic that is used in the Quran (Classical Arabic or Quranic Arabic).
By the way, to Yaqub i can understand it if "the way" people glorify Arabic might come hate-able to you. However i will add that the Arabic as in the Quran does indeed sound "eloquent". While reciting Quran in Arabic (correctly and beautifully) without observing its meaning can be useless, doing the same while observing the meaning can be a wonderful experience. It is in some way, healing. That's for the peaceful, or 'good news' verses. As for some heavier verses (warnings), the sounds are not only also heavy (sometimes), but more difficult to pronounce as well.
And despite all the difficulties in translating the Arabic Quran to our own languages, i will not neglect the possibility that there might be reasons not yet made clear to us, as to why the Last Revelation is revealed in the Classical/Quranic Arabic.
Thanks for the valuable information. It was very informative. handshake
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Peace,
I am providing some observation and thoughts on your post.
You opted to criticize others (shias/sunnis) without first explaining your positions/understanding adequately. And this is not very intelligent thing to do. A good post would have included the rationale behind your stated position.
Who is ?us??
You alone,
Free-minds.org,
All members of free-minds.org,
Some members of free-minds.org,
Acceptance of all the religious position advocated by this web site,
Acceptance of some religious position advocated by this web site,
And so onIn fact ?us? is guilty of the very thing you are accusing the sunnis of
If you read the threads, posts, articles and other documents on this web site very carefully you will find the followings in majority of them
-
In the name of Quran alone, this web site produces modern hadith that contradicts Quran, God?s physical laws, and the innermost thoughts of righteous persons
-
If you read these modern hadith carefully you will note that authors are either ill prepared, did not conduct sufficient research (your post being a case), do not adhere to God?s law, contradicts their position from thread to thread, not knowledgeable, etc.?..
-
The sunnis hadith you are condemning is equivalent to hadith produced by free-minds.org via the use of selective classic Arabic dictionary meaning. No difference, you are replacing sunnis hadith with the classic dictionary. Note that the dictionary is not infallible
-
Some on this site will advocate that you cannot breakfast fast at sunset, yet they will not define what night is. Any definition other than the sunset will be a contradiction. Let them produce the definition of night if they speak the truth
-
One hadith will say you will have to fast in the summer time in violation of God?s law/guidance. This hadith makes Bukhari look real good you know
-
Some moderator will proclaim themselves as good people; as if they don?t need to earn respect from other. This is a blatant violation of human decency
-
If you present different views (although consistent with the Quran), some moderator will threaten you with throwing you out of the forum. They don?t have the decency to withdraw themselves from the dispute and let a third party settle the dispute. They do not honor the conflict of interest concepts. What bothers me the most is the tolerance of other moderators and the administrators when they are aware of such situations. This is like many good police officers getting bad name for few bad ones. This is not acceptable in God?s system unless the moderator in question invoke the curse of God on them for any unjustly act
-
Another problematic thing is the title ?wise one? assigned by the web site to some members, where do they get the authority to call someone wise one when they are not. Just read their posts. One cannot call themselves worshipper of God alone and exhibits such behavior. You can?t have your cake and eat it too
-
Another hadith is the unjustifiable use of Joseph?s plan (to keep his brother in Egypt via the cup steal plot) to generalized the punishment of thief. Yet, they are the one who advocates that if the God did not specifically say such and such thing in the Quran you can imply it. Be aware, they will prohibit you of doing something but they will use it when it suits their purpose
Here is an example of how the use of classic Arabic dictionary can lead many people astray.
4912 - O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe God. God is Redeemer, Merciful.
This is the translation of ?us? that allows for suspicion which violate the God given fundamental right of an innocent human i.e. human dignity. This translation allows for illegal search and many other corruptions in the system. Such system cannot be God?s system period.
Contrast the above translation with the below translation which does not violate human dignity nor does it allow corrupted system.
4912 - O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.
Which one does your innermost tells you to accept? The distinction is very clear God vs. satan (my opinion of course).
I recommend you to read the following thread of belH. This is one of the best threads on this site.
Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
Thank you for your highly enlightening post Guest. You bring much insight and knowledge to this thread. yeah
You also seem to have an exceeding large amount of time on your hands (or you type really fast), and seem to be relieving a large amount of suppressed feelings on this thread. What you have criticized about "us" and "them" has long been beaten dead voodoo. If you had read through the thread, you would find that I wrote the title in a period of anger and frustration. I have already posted that many times throughout the thread, the last being... earlier this week? Then you seem to rant about your criticism of free-minds.org... if you don't like it so much, why don't you leave or start your own forum with people that share the same views as you?
I honestly have not been following the free-minds.org is a sect thread, and have no interest in doing so. I belong to no sect, and am currently forming my own views about religion, the Quran, and the Sunna as we speak.
So I will ask you to please come down...this thread is currently just a place where a college student is sharing stories about his encounters with sunnis on the web...
If you have nothing to contribute, please leave.
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