A Challenge to all Arab Linguists arround the Globe
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Peace to all. Here is my question in pure learning spirit and not trying to point out mistakes in Qur?an. AlrRiba commonly understood or misunderstood as ?interest?/usury. My question is. How this word should be spelled in Arabic? One finds written in Qur?an as (from www.openburhan.com site), (in, Holy Quran by Taj company LTD. English Translation by Pickthall and Urdu by Maulana Fatheh Mohhammed Jallendhri certified by Hafiz Abdul Rauf, no year of publication given). Finally, Lane says it is also or with lots of references (Lane part 3 page 1023).
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000189.pdf
Very sincerely,
Badar -
Peace,
It should be spelled as Lane says. Both ways. I would venture to even say that an alif maqsoorah could be used, unconventional but not wrong. Wright explain this phenomenon of spelling where it occurs with zakat, salat and other words.
Godbless,
Anwar -
So no one is able to find the root for this word so far. Can we accept the truth that we do not understand a bit of message due lack of knowledge of said language? Let us take this first step, in order to have the doors opened from our Rabb, towards enhance understanding of the message. In addition, let us join hands to establish a team of people sincerely devoted to this cause.
Badar
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Peace,
I didn't answer this question because I believed that you would be able to anticipate my answer. I also believe that you were capable of figuring out the root on your own. Was I incorrect? Or is it that you have some sort of alternative agenda? Why don't you answer your own question for all to see. Honestly I think you can answer your own question.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
I didn't answer this question because I believed that you would be able to anticipate my answer. I also believe that you were capable of figuring out the root on your own. Was I incorrect? Or is it that you have some sort of alternative agenda? Why don't you answer your own question for all to see. Honestly I think you can answer your own question.
Godbless,
AnwarHonestly, your belief is correct. I want people who are wasting their energies in vain argumentation; lasting numerous pages on this very forum, to realize to get the basis in order first. Spend energy where it could and would produce some fruit. In due course, I shall bring up the real root and meanings as well. However, in the meantime people should try to spend some energy on something fruitful. Do not you think, this is not an unreasonable request?
May Rabb bless all.
Badar
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Dear all, I am working on this compound from AlKitab. . This has been repeated several times. Let me give you, my take on it so far. This is to invite people for sake of enhancement of mutual knowledge.
problematic is part in red. This is a three letter word. However, it can not be from a root. This is due to jezm/sukoon on Haa. Hence Alif here is likely Hamza tul Wasal, due Haa being Sakiin for easy of reading. Hence, this Alif would not contribute any thing to meanings of word. This leaves us only with . Please comment.
May Rabb bless all.
Badar
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Your conclusions are wrong. Hamzatul-wasl or alif-al-wasl are not prosthetic. They belong to the word. If you cannot find alif, haa and lam in the dicitonary you need to get another dictionary and look a little harder because it is in there.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Dear all, I am working on this compound from AlKitab. . This has been repeated several times. Let me give you, my take on it so far. This is to invite people for sake of enhancement of mutual knowledge.
problematic is part in red. This is a three letter word. However, it can not be from a root. This is due to jezm/sukoon on Haa. Hence Alif here is likely Hamza tul Wasal, due Haa being Sakiin for easy of reading. Hence, this Alif would not contribute any thing to meanings of word. This leaves us only with . Please comment.
May Rabb bless all.
Badar
Ahli kitab mean the torah or the injeel owners.
The words ahli also used on verse425 to describe about slave owner
and on 1225 on the same mean. -
Your conclusions are wrong. Hamzatul-wasl or alif-al-wasl are not prosthetic. They belong to the word. If you cannot find alif, haa and lam in the dicitonary you need to get another dictionary and look a little harder because it is in there.
Godbless,
AnwarThanks and peace, let us talk about more well know case and word. For example and . Please see referance below from Wright if does not open go to page 19 and Lane's page. Which last time you thought was still authentic referances.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000159.pdf
http//www.ghazali.org/arabic/WrightArabicGrammarVol1.pdfPeace
Badar
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Ism and ahl are different. Ism is known to be a special case. However what applies to ism does not apply to ahl. This can be seen more in the verbs that they are associated with. ism is associated with samaa and ahl with ahala. Also you should understand that there are many strange occurrences in Arabic (they are however a minority in the language) that are associated with and can be traced back to archaic verbal forms or archaic known forms. Sometimes even loan words.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Thanks again and peace. How about ? When one says . This Alif disappears again. If it were not Alif of ease of pronunciation i.e., Alif required at the beginning of words starting with two consonants and first being sakin; which could not be pronounced in Arabic without adding Alif or Hamza tul wasal. It would not disappear like it does with out altering the meanings of the words. The meanings still remains the same, with or without Alif. It is not rare a phenomenon; in fact it is the rule and there are so many other words as an example. E.H. Palmer makes it adundantly clear in his book of Arabic Grammar.
Peace.
Badar
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Ism and ahl are different. Ism is known to be a special case. However what applies to ism does not apply to ahl. This can be seen more in the verbs that they are associated with. ism is associated with samaa and ahl with ahala. Also you should understand that there are many strange occurrences in Arabic (they are however a minority in the language) that are associated with and can be traced back to archaic verbal forms or archaic known forms. Sometimes even loan words.
Godbless,
AnwarIf Im not mistaken ism mean is name. Have a look at asma ulhusna (good name, ismi-hasan).
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Peace,
Farabi, don't waste your time with these simplicities. I and everyone involved in this conversation knows that. Badar, the alif is a funny creature. In many cases when it follows a vowel from a previous word or pronunciation it will be swallowed up. I believe this is part of the rules of idgham. It happens When you say muhammad ibn abdullah it is pronounced muhammadinibni 'abdillaahi. The noon on the nunation is followed by a kasrah which is is why the alif is swallowed up. This happens in the case of alif maddah and in other cases. It has just become the custom to drop the alif out of the text. I'm sure this has a name as well but this is the basic concept. Before being quick to respond back think about what I said. Yes this phenomena has a name and I am not giving the name here, but I am explaining what happens and why. Please understand this, depsite the fact that I have not given a categorized name for it.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Farabi, don't waste your time with these simplicities. I and everyone involved in this conversation knows that. Badar, the alif is a funny creature. In many cases when it follows a vowel from a previous word or pronunciation it will be swallowed up. I believe this is part of the rules of idgham. It happens When you say muhammad ibn abdullah it is pronounced muhammadinibni 'abdillaahi. The noon on the nunation is followed by a kasrah which is is why the alif is swallowed up. This happens in the case of alif maddah and in other cases. It has just become the custom to drop the alif out of the text. I'm sure this has a name as well but this is the basic concept. Before being quick to respond back think about what I said. Yes this phenomena has a name and I am not giving the name here, but I am explaining what happens and why. Please understand this, depsite the fact that I have not given a categorized name for it.
Godbless,
AnwarSo now please tell then in our word of intrest. It has nun before it. . I agree alif has lots of purposes and uses. Why is this alif here for? If this is not a hamza til wasl.
Badar
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Peace,
Badar, it is part of the word ahl.
Godbless,
AnwarDear Anwar, please consider this; if you have not looked up this word in Lane, so far. Here is the link for your review, please. Point to be noted that, Lane gives no references to any other Arabic Lexicon or Lexigrapher except, Imam Raghib Isfahani for this word. We know Imam died in 502 AH. This was the time when Arabic and meanings of Quran were already lost. Poor Imam, was put to death in attempting to revive both. Hence, though as honest in his attempt, he can not be completely authentic with out other references. This further implies that this word was not worthy for other lexigrapher to even record. As particle "hal" was well known and "alif" only added as for tajweed hamza til wasl or as interogative "alif". Either of these would be the case due jezm on "Haa". After you have reviewed the link page, as well given a thought to my line of reasoning. I shall continue this discourse.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000158.pdf
PeaceBadar
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I disagree with your reasoning. Go check the lexicons in Arabic. Muhit al-Muhit, Lisan al-Arab and others. The Arabic language had not been lost by then, however these later lexicographers were mainly collecting early works and analyzing earlier works of Arabic to properly compile their later editions as a more unified and better organized book than what had been scattered and maybe not as well organized before. That is the problem with only dealing with one dictionary. You must consult as many Classical Arabic dictionaries as possible to try to get the full picture of a word. I'm sure Mr. Isfahani also has older sources for his dictionary but because you only consulted lane you would not know this. I would not negatively prejudge Arabic lexographers unless you have a very specific and really valid reason to do this. This is not like hadeeth, which is the classification and recording of rumor. And you must provide more evidences than just a birth date, because his sources were most likely written much earlier. Many of these old Lexicographers were actually working from even older texts that no longer survive.
Godbless,
Anwar