Afraid to become a kafir

Recluse

Even if a particular hadith ends up being the "Prophet's words," what in your study of the quran leads you to believe that you would have to obey those words?

597 Whatever from the people of those villages God has turned over to His Apostle - belongs to God and the Apostle, and the near of kin , and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, so that it may not be going round and round among such of you as may be rich. Hence, accept whatever the Apostle gives you , and refrain from anything that he withholds from you; and remain conscious of God for, verily, God is severe in retribution.

3321 VERILY, in the Apostle of God you have a good example for everyone who looks forward to God and the Last Day, and remembers God unceasingly.

465 But nay, by thy Sustainer! They do not believe unless they make thee a judge of all on which they disagree among themselves, and then find in their hearts no bar to an acceptance of thy decision and give themselves up in utter self-surrender.

2451 The utterance of those who acknowledge when they are invited to God and His messenger to judge in their affairs is to say "We hear and obey." These are the winners.

3164 Indeed, God bestowed a favour upon the believers when he raised up in their midst an apostle from among themselves, to convey His messages unto them, and to cause them to grow in purity, and to impart unto them the divine writ as well as wisdom - whereas before that they were indeed, most obviously, lost in error.

1644 with all evidence of the truth and with books of divine wisdom. And upon thee have We bestowed from on high this reminder, so that thou might make clear unto mankind all that has ever been thus bestowed upon them, and that they might take thought.

7157 "Those who follow the gentile prophet whom they find written for them in the Torah and the Injeel; he orders them to goodness, deters them from evil, he makes lawful for them the good things, he forbids for them the evil, and he removes their burden and the shackles imposed upon them. So those who acknowledged him, honored him, supported him, and followed the light that was sent down with him; these are the successful."

459 O you who acknowledge, obey God and obey the messenger and those entrusted amongst you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger, if you acknowledge God and the Last day. That is better and a more suitable solution.

3336 Now whenever God and His Apostle have decided a matter, it is not for a believing man or a believing woman to claim freedom of choice insofar as they themselves are concerned for he who rebels against God and His Apostle has already, most obviously, gone astray.

929 fight against those who - despite having been vouchsafed revelation -do not believe either in God or the Last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and do not follow the religion of truth till they pay the exemption tax with a willing hand, after having been humbled .

Alen

I can't become a Quran aloner and reject the Sunnah and Ahadith as a whole. As strange as it may sound, I'm afraid that this would make me a 'kafir'. Having said that, I refuse to believe everything traditional scholars say; they are not God and make lots of mistakes. For example, when I fail to understand a particular sahih hadith, I say to myself "Allah knows best". I neither accept them, nor reject them. Only God knows if they are the prophet's words.

Peace,
Respectfully.

I don't know, if i've said this before but here it goes. I've been reading The Quran and those other books that call themselves hadith sahih by Bukhary and Muslim. For ten long years.

I've been able to put them (hadith by those guys) in three groups those that contradict The Quran, those that contradict themselves and those that don't contradict either and are normal. The third group is normal but there is one abnormality within them they have nothing to do with worshipping God or glorifying God. They are a simple diary of men and memoirs of people who wanted to write down as much stuff as humanly possible.

The way i see it, prophet/messenger Muhammad may have done certain stuff that you find in the sahih hadith by Bukhary and Muslim but that does not mean that that thing is now The Law or obligatory/compolsury.

For example someone has seen how the messenger/prophet Muhammad washed his nose, mouth, ears and neck along with compulsory parts of the body as part of the ablution.
Why?
Why did the messenger Muhammad do that?
Wrong question.
better question why didn't this narrator ask the messenger himself?????
Is it possible that messenger Muhammad was travelling and was loaded with sand? Was he too dirty and had no time to take a bath? Why didn't the narrator ask the messenger?
I don't know.

Same goes for the raising the hands at the start of the prayer. Was he testing the people behind him, to see if some of them were spies, infiltrating his group and under their armpits they had stones and statues? Did messenger wanted to expose them? God knows best. Why didn't they ask him?

According to some hadith, prophet Muhammad did not like honey. Does that mean that we must also not like honey?
But Lebanese restaurants here sell some really good sweets? They're sunnis .....

You're not a kaffir. Just because someone says/thinks/believes that you're an alien/kaffir/MI6 or Jesus, that doesn't mean you are. You know why? Because one would need a proof/evidence to support such a claim. It doesn't matter what they say of you, the thing that matters the most to you, is your record on Judgement Day, my friend.

Keep up the prayers and read The Quran everyday.
God bless you, always rely on God and trust Him, all the time.
Peace.

belH

Peace Resclue,

We are ordered to be believers in what God have sent to us (i.e., The Books) and DISBELIEVERS in any other Books that associate with God what He did not reveal in the Books.
Unless we do so, We are doomed!!!!You are not a Believer because you believe in other Books that are not written by the Prophet, rather you are a Believer because you believe in God's Words and Disbelieve in Men words.

Here is a story about a Man who had a similar situation as yours

You invite me to reject God, and associate to Him that I have no knowledge of (in the Books), and I am inviting you to the Noble, the Forgiver.
4042

there is no doubt that what you invite me to has no basis in this world, nor in the Hereafter. And our ultimate return will be to God, and that the transgressors will be the dwellers of the Fire.
4043

You will come to remember what I am telling you, and I leave my affair in this matter to God; for God is the Seer of the servants.
4044

Another verses that show what will happen if we do not Disbelieve in these man made books

Have they not roamed the earth and noted the consequences for those who were before them? They used to be greater in number than them and mightier in strength, and they had built more in the land. Yet, all that they had earned could not avail them.
4082

So when they saw Our might, they said We believe in God alone, and we disbelieve in all what we associated with God.
4084

belH

Resclue

Here where God is Ordering You to become a Disbeliever of Such Man-Made Books that contain laws that Violate the Quran Laws

Did you not see those who claimed they believed in what was sent down to you and what was sent before you? They wanted to seek judgment using Tagoot (Any other Laws that are not prescribed by God in His Book), while they were ordered to Disbelieve in it. It is the devil who wants to lead them far astray.
460

noble

Peace Recluse,
I think it is very healthy to be afraid to become a kafir, that in fact means you care for your salvation,
which is a big step towards belief.
Only you can know if you are a muslim or not, and it just boils down to be a pure monotheist, meaning believing that
there is no Creator but One Single Creator, and that there is a Judgment Day (JD) coming where humans will be retributed
according to their deeds.
Now if you accept that and are 100% convinced, you are a muslim.
If you want to be of the ones who succeed on JD, then you need to do good and refrain from evil.
After that you have levels, you become a Believer, where you get closer to The God by virtue of getting to know Him and
His Dominion better, this is through Trust which we accepted before He manifested us on Earth, and for that you will be tested.
Probably now you are in the middle of a test where your faith is being tested, just let it happen, by reading and understanding the Quran better, as in it are the secrets for you to pass any tests thrown at you...
When you actively believe in most things that are in the Quran, by that I mean, not just a leap of faith, but experience the ones Allah sees fit you need to experiment, you will then be able to see things more clearly, and make better decisions.
There is no short cuts.
The hadith is a fallacy, a mirage invented for lazy people by dangerous rulers who want to manipulate them, if you stay in the trap of the hadith, you might maybe not become a kafir, but you will still remain a slave, never free to be you as Allah wants you to fulfill your purpose to serve Him, and not any other...

noble

Peace Recluse
Be careful about the ayahs you are quoting, they do have a context in the Quran, and in time and space in the life of the Prophet
and the community among whom he lived.
We are not that community...
and the Message is the Quran, no more and no less, all we need to know about the Messenger is in the Message which is the Quran...

sarah2505

... The third group is normal but there is one abnormality within them they have nothing to do with worshipping God or glorifying God. They are a simple diary of men and memoirs of people who wanted to write down as much stuff as humanly possible.

The way i see it, prophet/messenger Muhammad may have done certain stuff that you find in the sahih hadith by Bukhary and Muslim but that does not mean that that thing is now The Law or obligatory/compolsury.

For example someone has seen how the messenger/prophet Muhammad washed his nose, mouth, ears and neck along with compulsory parts of the body as part of the ablution.
Why?
Why did the messenger Muhammad do that?
Wrong question.
better question why didn't this narrator ask the messenger himself?????
Is it possible that messenger Muhammad was travelling and was loaded with sand? Was he too dirty and had no time to take a bath? Why didn't the narrator ask the messenger?
I don't know.

Same goes for the raising the hands at the start of the prayer. Was he testing the people behind him, to see if some of them were spies, infiltrating his group and under their armpits they had stones and statues? Did messenger wanted to expose them? God knows best. Why didn't they ask him?

According to some hadith, prophet Muhammad did not like honey. Does that mean that we must also not like honey?

excellent point. Just because the Prophet apparently liked pumpkin, doesn't mean that it is an especially good vegetable and it is a Sunnah to eat it since the Prophet did the same, it's because the Prophet's human, and had a liking for it.

aynur

I can't become a Quran aloner and reject the Sunnah and Ahadith as a whole. As strange as it may sound, I'm afraid that this would make me a 'kafir'. Having said that, I refuse to believe everything traditional scholars say; they are not God and make lots of mistakes. For example, when I fail to understand a particular sahih hadith, I say to myself "Allah knows best". I neither accept them, nor reject them. Only God knows if they are the prophet's words.

I was guessing you might post something like this, since from your other postings elsewhere I could tell you were having problems with rejecting the hadith as a whole.
I agree with what the others have posted.
And I think you need to focus on reading the Qur'an. I have some of the same difficulties as you, since I converted I only knew of the hadith+Qur'an together, never even thought to question the hadith.

Alen

excellent point. Just because the Prophet apparently liked pumpkin, doesn't mean that it is an especially good vegetable and it is a Sunnah to eat it since the Prophet did the same, it's because the Prophet's human, and had a liking for it.

Peace,
Respectfully.

Exactly!
I've met some guys who want to imitate the prophet/messenger Muhammad to the point of becoming exact replica of him. You know, like, T-1000 from Terminator 2. These same guys who do that, accuse then Christians of being like Jesus Christ or whatever.

There is a difference between following the prophet and imitating his exterior. Huge difference.
God knows best.
Glory be to God,
God bless you all.
Salam.

Yaqub

You can read books alongside the Quran if you like, but make sure you think critically. I mean some sane hadith are a good examples as to how medieval Arabians lived there life. You can derive some important information, but like Alen said. You will NEVER know why the prophet did something 100% unless you ask him. What we are currently doing is reading hearsay collected by people from different countries who lived 200 years after the prophet and attempting to figure out why the prophet did something based on the hadith collectors understanding. It becomes a daunting task. In my opinion, if Muhammad really wanted me to know his life story, he would have written an autobiography...

Anyway, you can become a hadith agnostic if you want. Jeffrey Lang, is a famous example. He has researched hadith for a long time and has reached no real conclusion.

Best of Luck,
Yaqub

Ahmad_Bilal

I can't become a Quran aloner and reject the Sunnah and Ahadith as a whole. As strange as it may sound, I'm afraid that this would make me a 'kafir'. Having said that, I refuse to believe everything traditional scholars say; they are not God and make lots of mistakes. For example, when I fail to understand a particular sahih hadith, I say to myself "Allah knows best". I neither accept them, nor reject them. Only God knows if they are the prophet's words.

Who determines your status as a "kafir"? Who are you afraid of displeasing? Allah alone determines whether you are a believer or a disbeliever, and sectarian Islaamic groups don't have the authority to approve or revoke your "muslim" status. Therefore, it's wisest to follow Allah's guidance, not the guidance of men who can't harm or benefit you...

nsws1988

I can't become a Quran aloner and reject the Sunnah and Ahadith as a whole. As strange as it may sound, I'm afraid that this would make me a 'kafir'. Having said that, I refuse to believe everything traditional scholars say; they are not God and make lots of mistakes. For example, when I fail to understand a particular sahih hadith, I say to myself "Allah knows best". I neither accept them, nor reject them. Only God knows if they are the prophet's words.

Peace

Please read these verses...

These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?

Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt * The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient * If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess

A revelation from the Lord of the universe * Had he uttered any other teachings * We would have punished him * We would have stopped the revelations to him

Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches

We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications

When our revelations are recited to them, those who do not expect to meet us say, "Bring a Quran other than this, or change it!" Say, "I cannot possibly change it on my own. I simply follow what is revealed to me. I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the retribution of an awesome day

You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it

What is wrong with your logic? * Do you have another book to uphold? * In it, do you find anything you want?

Or do they have partners who decree for them matters of religion not sanctioned by God?

MUNZIR_ALI