Belief in AlQuran
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Salam
Salam means peace.
Islam is a derivetive of the same word.
Deen-e-Islam then would mean " A path/journey towards peace "
Muslim then should mean " Group embarking on this journey to peace "Taqwa means " Enabling yourself to gaurd against ". It then depends as to what you want to gaurd yourself against.
AlKitab is then this book of principles which will help you achieve the above goal. Al Qur'Aan is the word most likely meaning " The One I established, with authority ". This would encompass the entire system which has been put together to work in harmony. Hence if we get the guidance from this Book of guidance, we will be part of this system in harmony, and it would make it thus easy for us to embark on this journey to peace and harmony. Hence those following this path would be called in arabic language as Mulims or in English as Group emarked on this journey to peace to maintain the desired harmony in the system established by our Creator.
Salam ( Peace ) to all.
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Taqwa is difficult to explain, it is part of iman i guess. Sorry i thought you meant supersede not sure what you mean by superset. I have mixed ideas of what taqwa is. I can?t give you my definite opinion, unless you wanna hear my preconceived notions.
I would explain it as 'mindfulness' or even 'prudence'. Ittaqa Allah is 'be mindful of Allah'.
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Salaam,
Guys, let's hold ourselves from translating a concept as important as "taqwa". Remember that ALLAH explains taqwa through so many verses in the Quran, and what explanation is better than the explanation of the Author?
Hey! You trapped me
i did not!
i would have used Quran to explain it.. my thoughts Taqwa is associated with fear, love and God consciousness. The idea of fear makes me wonder why fear God.. to me taqwa?s associations seem to be more about God consciousness and piety
I didn?t really find a verse in relation to fear, fear makes me think negative however taqwa is a positive thing. Though i believe it is the root meaning of the word which has the association of fear.
About the verse 221 I think ?pious fear? is an interesting way to put it because a person wants to establish God consciousness and piety yet at the same time one is fearful of falling back and committing error. So, by being conscious of God and cautious of one?s actions we?re simultaneously kinda like on edge of fearing a downfall and working towards good. So taqwa is like a combination.
The possibility of us straying from Sirat'l-mustaqeem is something we're not safe from in this life. The only fear that works in the Quranic sense is indeed the fear to ALLAH. In this sense, fear to anything other than ALLAH is negative, and the fear to ALLAH alone positive. Why? Because everything ALLAH calls us to do is good thing for ourselves. No other fear works this way. Check any ~phobia -- it will obstruct the phobic person from doing any good thing. Fear to other human forces a person to obey that other human instead of ALLAH.
As for those who fear ALLAH alone, every single warning in Alqur'aan will remind a person with taqwa that he or she may experience it if he or she did not continue performing `ibadah to ALLAH. We need this one fear.
Remember that Taqwa includes
• believe (Imaan) in the Quran (as the Book/Message revealed to us), and
• certainty (yaqeen) about the Hereafter.
So if we're looking for verses in relation to fear, we may look at the verses of strong warnings throughout the Quran and be certain that those warnings are TRUE--we're not yet safe from them.
(2237) our taqwa that reaches ALLAH is definitely not something material/physical such as blood or meat
(4717) huda means guidance. notice that in 2237 guidance is also mentioned (hadakum). Those whom ALLAH guides will be given/increased their taqwa. Now the question 'whom ALLAH guides?' should come to mind...NOTE i think it will be better to preserve the original word of -- at least -- the reference word, while studying every occurrence of that reference word in all its form. Only then we can compare all those verses without 'preconceived notions' of the translator(s), which are usually inconsistent anyway.
In this case, the reference word is "taqwa", so preserve words like "taqwa" "Ittaquw (ittaqoo)" "tattaquwn (tattaqoon)" "muttaqiyn (muttaqeen)" "muttaquwn (muttaqoon)" ....
For example, 4717 And those who are guided - He increases them in guidance and gives them their taqwa.
I didn?t say all of nas are part of allatheena aminou but there will be SOME who are.
originally on rep #57 you didn't say SOME and i couldn't assume it (you said "nas are part of".
Then on #62 you said "part of nas ..." which is more accurate in my view.... in terms of set of actors I think they are addressed to the same people. Because it says ?olaika allathina suddaqo waolaika HUMu almumineen?. They are those who are truthful and they are the muttaqeen??
On that single verse yes. On the whole view we need to study more, but it's safe to say that some elements of taqwa/muttaqiyn are also elements of being Sadaquw. I didn't mention it because i wanted to focus on showing the relationship between Imaan and taqwa.
Interesting 1599 translated by Asad indicates yaqeen as death, definitely death is a certainty. A guess a different type of yaqeen.
It is safe to assume, IMO, that`ainal-yaqeen (certainty by seeing) is experienced after death (please read sura 102), and haqqul-yaqeen (sura 56 - ending) happens in the fire of JaHiym, for those who denied and strayed while in this life.
analogy when you're about to buy a house, you can have certainty about its qualities from descriptions and information from the owner of the house whom you trusted, but you can only be more certain if you actually see the house for yourself. Then, finally, you will have the truest certainty when you actually live/dwell in the house.
Salaam
(ed fixed a sentence on 'fear to ALLAH alone'
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Salaam,
Guys, let's hold ourselves from translating a concept as important as "taqwa". Remember that ALLAH explains taqwa through so many verses in the Quran, and what explanation is better than the explanation of the Author?
I agree.
It is therefore best to look at lexicon such as Lanes which is a very hard work done by him, translating and putting all the meanings used, in a chronological order, by the arabs in the classical era and partly in the non classical ea as well. Learning to read and apply the work of Lanes is about the same as going back to the time of classical arabic. This is probably the best in translation of the old classic work we have as a source of reference. Be mindful though, as you will not find all the words "as written in the Qur'Aan", in the lexicon as such, since a lot of words have been joined together in arabic script as we can easily see when reading the AlQur'Aan. Even simple words like AlKitab and AlQur'Aan, have been joined together in the Holy Book, and you will need to look up the meaning of things like even Al, separately. It takes a while to learn, as to how to read this dictionary, but it is doable and it is fabulous. Learning to break the words written in Qur'Aan correctly, as exemplified above, to arrive at all the correct words used in there, is the key to finding the right meanings. -
I agree.
It is therefore best to look at lexicon such as Lanes which is a very hard work done by him, translating and putting all the meanings used, in a chronological order, by the arabs in the classical era and partly in the non classical ea as well. Learning to read and apply the work of Lanes is about the same as going back to the time of classical arabic. This is probably the best in translation of the old classic work we have as a source of reference. Be mindful though, as you will not find all the words "as written in the Qur'Aan", in the lexicon as such, since a lot of words have been joined together in arabic script as we can easily see when reading the AlQur'Aan. Even simple words like AlKitab and AlQur'Aan, have been joined together in the Holy Book, and you will need to look up the meaning of things like even Al, separately. It takes a while to learn, as to how to read this dictionary, but it is doable and it is fabulous. Learning to break the words written in Qur'Aan correctly, as exemplified above, to arrive at all the correct words used in there, is the key to finding the right meanings.While it's very helpful to have lexicon dictionaries as 'general' reference for (Classical) Arabic, the only true reference to get to understand taqwa is Alquran itself (22). And one sure way to gain more understanding is by practicing what is already understood. Can't stress this enough Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice.
Salaam
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Asalamu alaikum
kn
Taqwa means " Enabling yourself to gaurd against ". It then depends as to what you want to gaurd yourself against.
When you hear the concept ittaqu lah, you don?t think guard yourself against God. You think (well at least i do) follow the rules, be conscious of God or guard yourself against "angering" God. As abdalquran said being ?mindful? of Allah... not exactly guarding and it?s not the same mindful as dhikr.
Yep alkitab has the principles. In certain ways ?muslim? is more of a social/political term. Not all muslims follow the principles of the Quran. I mean unless you believe all these principles were here before it was revealed and Ibrahim followed the exact same thing. The underlying message yes, though the actual Quran?
Though having said that, a muslim could well and truly follow the system/laws of Quran. However, they?d be more than a muslim. I guess i?m not sure if it?s necessary to be labelled other than that but it helps make distinctions or helps one gain closeness by indicating the attributes/actions one does to be closer to God.
San
Ok the possibility of straying against sirat almustaqwwn is what we?re not safe from, that?s the fear. Us not following the right path, the path of goodness and only good and thus by straying we fear the punishment we could receive.
NOTE i think it will be better to preserve the original word of -- at least -- the reference word, while studying every occurrence of that reference word in all its form. Only then we can compare all those verses without 'preconceived notions' of the translator(s), which are usually inconsistent anyway.
Ok but we?re kinda doing that anyway aren?t we? We know it?s original is taqwa and we?re looking at the root..
BTW sorry for not articulating my thoughts clearly.
In regards to 102, I thought the 1022 was in relation to death, how do you see it? I was challenged by this thought before by a friend of mine. Do you think it could be literally visiting the grave?
Plus 1025 makes me think ?if you knew the ?knowledge? of yaqeen? like if they knew yaqeen they would know they would get jahananam. Yet they doubted or had no yaqeen and now they received ?ayn elyaqeen because they see it. Also i don?t think we need
ayn alyaqeen or at least we don't need to worry about it ? (maybe) because we believe in the ghayb and also we are learning or establishing/edlm alyaqeen. What happens after death would be the truth of all certainty 5695...Salam
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Ok but we?re kinda doing that anyway aren?t we? We know it?s original is taqwa and we?re looking at the root..
yes we do, but that (preserving the reference word -- especially when presenting a verse in translation) would also benefit others who read this thread. Just a suggestion though, directed to no one in particular
In regards to 102, I thought the 1022 was in relation to death, how do you see it?
same way you do
I was challenged by this thought before by a friend of mine. Do you think it could be literally visiting the grave?
Isn't death a literal meaning of "visiting the grave"? Still i think a pragmatic approach would be to associate this Sura with death & graveyard. Why? because then everytime we see or hear death or grave, we will be reminded of "yaqeen".
Plus 1025 makes me think ?if you knew the ?knowledge? of yaqeen? like if they knew yaqeen they would know they would get jahananam. Yet they doubted or had no yaqeen and now they received ?ayn elyaqeen because they see it. Also i don?t think we need
ayn alyaqeen or at least we don't need to worry about it ? (maybe) because we believe in the ghayb and also we are learning or establishing/edlm alyaqeen. What happens after death would be the truth of all certainty 5695...Salam
yes That is in line with my understanding. If we count the (very long?) time between death and the Day of Judgement, surely haqqul`yaqeen is after the Day of Judgement, because it seems to happen in the Fire itself... I agree with the text in blue above.
Salaam
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My friend argues what would be the point of yaqeen if it is achieved after death? I think it's a valid point. Think about visiting the grave doesn't it make us certain?
Isn't death a literal meaning of "visiting the grave"? Still i think a pragmatic approach would be to associate this Sura with death & graveyard. Why? because then everytime we see or hear death or grave, we will be reminded of "yaqeen".
Possibly however i'm unsure. visiting the grave can make people more aware/conscious of the inevitable. the yaqeen of death. the eye of certainty through viewing others who have died before?
I tried searching if there is any other word relating to zur/zurtum etc but i found none. maybe my searching is terrible but i found none. i know in everyday language ziyara is associated with visit.
ok i just looked up the root
i found other verses but their meaning isn't visit nor death
Zay-Waw-Ra = visit, visitor, incline towards, he honoured him, falsify/beautify/embellish, lie/untruth, adjust/correct, decline or turn aside from it, determination.
Zurtum (prf. 2nd m. plu.) You visited
Tazaawaru (imp. 3rd. p. f. VI.) She deviates
Zuura (acc. n.)
Zuuru (nom. n) Falsehood; False speech; False
zara vb. (I)
perf. act. 1022
zur n.m. 2230, 254, 2572, 582
tazawara vb. (VI) - impf. act. 1817(just for your reference)
In ways I feel more inclined to believe it is visit...
Salam
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My friend argues what would be the point of yaqeen if it is achieved after death? I think it's a valid point. Think about visiting the grave doesn't it make us certain?
Hence the suggestion -- still it won't be as certain as seeing the Hell for yourself (we will all see it finally) and never as certain as being in the Hell itself.
Yes, for those who don't have yaqeen in this current life, by knowledge, what is the point of having yaqeen after death, indeed? They couldn't escape it anymore...
May ALLAH protects us from His fire.
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CORRECTIONs for my previous example -- grammar and semantic
See, for example, someone who just have believed in Allah and the Last Day and have done nothing else? Is he a mu'min? He is beginning to be a mu'min, i'd say. Is he a muttaqiyn? No, he's not even yet a "complete" mu'min.
Then when he already believed all the concepts needed to be believed to be a mu'min, he is now a mu'min. Is he a muttaqiyn? Not necessarily. He must do the actions of taqwa to be a muttaqiyn.
should be
See, for example, someone who just have believed in Allah and the Last Day and have done nothing else? Is he a mu'min? He is beginning to be a mu'min, i'd say. Is he a muttaqi? He's not even yet a "complete" mu'min.
(He will need belief in ALLAH, the Last Day, AlmalaA'ikat, the Book, and the Prophets before he can do the actions of taqwa consciously for ALLAH)
Then when he already believed all the concepts needed to be believed to be a mu'min, he is now a "complete" mu'min. Is he a muttaqi? Not necessarily yet, but he is beginning to be a muttaqi. He must do all the actions of taqwa to be a "complete" muttaqi.
Sorry for the confusion -- clarified what i meant, hopefully...
Salaam
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Jack
What is jinn firstly? How do you see it? (you can ignore this if you like, read on)
Create a new thread!
When children learn for example, they see a cat it has four legs, it has fur. They then see a dog and think ?cat? because it contains the same characteristics of fur + 4 legs but it?s not a cat, we know it?s not because a dog barks a cat doesn?t. so the child accommodates their knowledge to something else and calls it ?cat? then when new knowledge is learnt, they learn ah it barks it must be a ?dog? not a cat because someone identified that for them or they learnt that somehow... so their knowledge assimilates.
Possibly adults are the same in some instances we may identify things as we know it until shown a different meaning.
think about people who believe in superstitions they dunno why but they think ?what if? so they believe them. They dunno what it is or what it exactly means but they believe in them.They believe in them, so what? Are we talking about belief or knowledge? The what-if-game is circular. What if worshipping satan is the right path?
Belief doesn?t have to be logical.
Why not? God will call me to account for my hearing, eyesight and MY MIND 1736, Why believe at all? Anyone can say I believe in x,y,z. Doesn't mean anything... Ibrahim wasn't satisfied by mere iman (2260). He needed evidence, in addition to his iman. God showed him what he needed to see.
And yes iman can be shown through our actions i agree, no it?s not a superficial thing. But let me tell you, I can believe in AlQuran i can believe in the laws i can be a muslim and i can ?choose? to let me desires/wishes/whims control me even though i ?still believe? in the Quran. My actions may not show true reflections of my belief but i could still believe yet my desires/wishes/whims control me or rather i would let them control me however i still believe.
It's about intentions. What about the people who claim to believe in the quran, yet INTENTIONALLY commit evil? Do they REALLY believe in the quran? Again to reiteriate, belief in the quran would be believing in its teachings. Of course, belief is not the best translation for iman and its derivatives anyway (see 5923 Is God the believer/faithful ?!).
You mentioned killing, i could kill someone and feel guilt that i did an evil deed and that i?m going to be punished. I could still believe in Quran and still do bad. I think it would just have a really bad psychological toll.
And what about the people who don't feel guilt, etc? Who think killing is for the greater good, etc? Again it's about intentions.
Besides that, i think people can get an overall idea through translations.
Will the God call people to account for rejecting a translator's rendition of al quran? Are translations al haqq? Al quran is al kitab bil haqq. Not Asad, yusf ali, et al.
438, 6112-113, and 6150 support my position that true iman is shown through one's actions.
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Peace
@san, you should study 231-11 to get to understand what Jack probably meant by "synonym"
While Imaan, taqwa, IHsaan are not necessarily synonymous, the "end state" of Almu'minuwn and Almuttaquwn and AlmuHsiniyn might be very similar as the concepts above interact with each other.
@Jack, while i do not agree on the exact word "synonym", is this in line with what you meant?
Peace peace
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Peace Jack
Create a new thread!
Noway dude! Too much to think about it?ll do my head inside out i?ve already put enough on my plate, thanks but if you like you can do it
What i mean is they believe based on what they know ?knowledge? and also what they?re told ?without? understanding. So the idea of them following jinn is well and truly possible even though they dunno what ?jinn? is, get it?
Sure we need and want evidence but not all people do. Think about how many people are blind believers as i said, belief doesn?t need logic. I can believe Paris Hilton is the best thing on earth, i don?t need logic for that. Obviously i don't believe that but just saying sorry lame example but do you get my drift?
It's about intentions. What about the people who claim to believe in the quran, yet INTENTIONALLY commit evil? Do they REALLY believe in the quran? Again to reiteriate, belief in the quran would be believing in its teachings. Of course, belief is not the best translation for iman and its derivatives anyway (see 5923 Is God the believer/faithful ?!).
Well what are you on about.. many people intentionally commit evil, for whatever gain it is they think they may gain. None of us a free from sin/evil.. could all of one persons sins be ?accidental?? it?d like to meet such a person, besides all sins are forgiven except the shirk ones. You can believe its teachings and aim to follow it and still falter but the point is to amend. Those who intentionally sin and continue to intentionally sin and continue to repeat the sin and then act like they don?t care because God forgives, well that?s another story.
Maybe killing is for the greater good Nah seriously i dunno, intentions and actions work hand in hand. I can intend something really good like making someone happy but i could cross the line and commit sins by that process. What is good what is bad? Depends how you want to look at it.
So people reject translators they even reject studies. God can deal with them, it?s not really my concern. Actions matter most definitely i don?t deny that, is one who strives the same as the one who sits? Off course not (495).
Salam
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Albirr is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west,
but Albirr is
those who believe inHere Albirr is not being defined. "Albirr is those who believe" looks quite an odd statement.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.47.gif
It is not virtue that you people turn your faces facing face to face/confronting East and West,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.177e.gif
instead virtue is of that person who believed in Allah, and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book , and the Chosen & Elevated Servants of Allah;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.177g{spent%20money%20on%20nearones...}.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.177g{sail}.gif
and he spent wealth for sake of Allah to the relatives, and the orphans, and the destitute, and the wayfarer, and those who seek help, and to get freedom for the slaves/prisoners;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.177h%20ssalat.gif
and he maintained Ass-Sa'laat and paid Az-Zakaa't;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.177a.gif
and they/such are the people who honour their pledges when they have entered into a pledge;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.177b.gif
and they remain coolly perseverant in financial crisis and adversity and in times of poverty/war.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.177f.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.177k%20muttaqoona.gif
They are the people who have proved their word as true; and they are the people who are truly cautious, heedful, and mindful avoiding unrestrained conduct.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.02.C.142.htm
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4914
Say the A`raab "We believe."
qlati l-arbu mannSay, "Not you believe"; but say, "We submitted," and has not entered the Imaan in your hearts
qul lam tu'min walkin ql aslamn wa lamm yadkhuli l-mnu f qulbikumand if you obey Allah and His Messenger, not He deprive you of your deeds anything.
wa in tu l-laha wa raslahu l yalit'kum min amlikum shay'anIndeed Allah Gafuwr rahiym
inna l-laha ghafrun ramun4915
Only the believers those who believe with Allah and His Messenger,
innam l-mu'minna alladhna man bil-lahi wa raslihithen (do) not doubt and strive with their wealth and their lives in (the) way (of) Allah.
thumma lam yartb wa jhad bi-amwlihim wa anfusihim f sabli l-lahiThose they (are) the truthful."
ulika humu l-diqnaThe first word of verse (4915) is divided into 2 morphological segments. An accusative particle and preventive particle. The accusative particle belongs to a special group of words known as inna and her sisters ( ا. The preventive particle m stops inna from taking its normal role in the sentence. Together the segments are known as kfa wa makffa ( ة. (http//quran.uk.net/WordMorphology.aspx?location=%2849151%29)
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Peace Sarah,
What i mean is they believe based on what they know ?knowledge? and also what they?re told ?without? understanding. So the idea of them following jinn is well and truly possible even though they dunno what ?jinn? is, get it?
Yes I had this thought in the back of my mind concerning the jinn. But the verse states they were MUMIN in the jinn. Who goes around believing in jinn? Doesn't matter what you view them as be it physical beings, fantasies, hidden, etc. Who claims (again malayka say most of humanity) to believe in any of that?
Sure we need and want evidence but not all people do. Think about how many people are blind believers as i said, belief doesn?t need logic. I can believe Paris Hilton is the best thing on earth, i don?t need logic for that. Obviously i don't believe that but just saying sorry lame example but do you get my drift?
Who cares what most people do? Just because the belief of most people is illogical, doesn't mean ours should be. It doesn't prove anything. It just shows how sheepish humans are. I would rather concern myself with the quranic definition of iman. Have a look at 944-45 for another example of iman vs. no iman.
many people intentionally commit evil, for whatever gain it is they think they may gain. None of us a free from sin/evil.. could all of one persons sins be ?accidental?? it?d like to meet such a person, besides all sins are forgiven except the shirk ones. You can believe its teachings and aim to follow it and still falter but the point is to amend. Those who intentionally sin and continue to intentionally sin and continue to repeat the sin and then act like they don?t care because God forgives, well that?s another story.
Of course not all 'sins' are accidental. "God forgives all sins except shrik ones" I assume you speak of 448 or 3953? 448 says shrik is a big ithm. 3953 says god protects all zunoob period. . You are not getting my point. Intentions matter. You can say you believe in the quran and INTENTIONALLY do bad things. Would that mean you actually believe in its teachings? If I say I believe in the quran and become a serial killer, what does my belief in this book prove? Nothing. Actions and intent. A person's actions aren't necessarily tied into believing/not believing a book. Belief, in itself, is meaningless without the right intentions/deeds which leads to belief in its teachings and THAT proves you actually believe in that book. True intentions (from the heart ) are ultimately shown through your works.
i dunno, intentions and actions work hand in hand. I can intend something really good like making someone happy but i could cross the line and commit sins by that process. What is good what is bad? Depends how you want to look at it.
Precisely they go hand in hand. Sure good/bad are subjective.
So people reject translators they even reject studies. God can deal with them, it?s not really my concern. Actions matter most definitely i don?t deny that, is one who strives the same as the one who sits? Off course not (495).
Salam )
Why should people study it? Does the quran force people to study it? Even believe? (1099, 2256). Don't take 495 out of context, its addressed to mumineen. You can do better than that P
Surely you haven't studied all books that claim to be from the God? I must say some of the translations are some rather callous works, It completely distorts the message.
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Salam Jack
Yes I had this thought in the back of my mind concerning the jinn. But the verse states they were MUMIN in the jinn. Who goes around believe in jinn? Doesn't matter what you view them as be it physical beings, fantasies, hidden, etc. Who claims (again malayka say most of humanity) to believe in any of that?
You know, you are confusing me with the whole jin/mumin thing. What is the context, is it dunya or akhira? Read from 3437 and tell me what I am supposed to see. What are you trying to tell me... That there are jin mumineen? Ok i get that? People worshipped them? Yet your implication to me is how can people worship something they don?t know! So tell me what am i supposed to be seeing because i can?t see what you?re trying to tell me.
Who cares what most people do? Just because the belief of most people is illogical, doesn't mean ours should be. It doesn't prove anything. It just shows how sheepish humans are. I would rather concern myself with the quranic definition of iman. Have a look at 944-45 for another example of iman vs. no iman.
Off course our logic should be logical. I was just trying to show you a perception about blind faith/belief. Proving it has no logic it can have no logic and people can be like that but forget it. As you say lets concern ourselves with Quranic iman vs no iman
Protects zunoob, period! What?s that supposed to mean? znb to my understanding has links to saye?a??! I mean the principle at least it has links to sins
Thal-Nun-Ba = to track, make a tale, add apendix, follow closely, become spotted.
Commit offence, fault, sin, wrong, act of disobedience, transgression.Dude i know intentions matter. Well maybe you?re a secret serial killer in a war or something killing all the bad guys who knows that might be good! Anyway enough fairytale stories, if you intentionally went against Quran and continued to do so even though you believed in it, then it could make you one of two things that i am aware of; a fasiq or kafir. I wonder if they have links... i?ll look into that later if you wanna get into that discussion i?m just doing a few too many things atm. note to self, stop wondering!
944-945 isn?t this context jihad? But sure the ones who truly believe will stay firm and not back down.
So yeh.. actions matter i came across this verse, supports your theory of actions and iman
3437 (Asad) For, it is neither your riches nor your children that can bring you nearer to Us only he who attains to faith and does what is right and just ; and it is these whom multiple recompense awaits for all that they have done; and it is they who shall dwell secure in the mansions ?Why should people study it? For jannah? For the hereafter, for a better life in this dunya for awareness for goodness, for haqq.. why do you think? No, Quran doesn?t force people to study it but it?s available for people to study.
i know 495 is addressed to mumineen, you see i thought you guys were mumineen i?m trying to uplift your spirits into proactive action! I?m not a walking Quran, cut me some slack.
My focus is Quran i don?t want to study other/all books so let?s focus on belief on AlQuran as that is our concern
(3941)
PEACE!
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Salam Sarah,
Salam Jack
You know, you are confusing me with the whole jin/mumin thing. What is the context, is it dunya or akhira? Read from 3437 and tell me what I am supposed to see. What are you trying to tell me... That there are jin mumineen? Ok i get that? People worshipped them? Yet your implication to me is how can people worship something they don?t know! So tell me what am i supposed to be seeing because i can?t see what you?re trying to tell me.
Point is, you don't have to profess something for it to be your iman. Therefore, iman is not about what you say. 'Saying' you believe in the quran, on the surface, is utterly meaningless.
Protects zunoob, period! What?s that supposed to mean?
I think there's a joke in there somewhere...
i.e. the verse says all zunoob! It doesn't qualify it with shrik being the exception etc.944-945 isn?t this context jihad? But sure the ones who truly believe will stay firm and not back down.
Right, and if they back down they cease to believe in god/al akhira. Hence, it's their actions that made them NOT believe in god/al-akhira
So yeh.. actions matter i came across this verse, supports your theory of actions and iman
3437 (Asad) For, it is neither your riches nor your children that can bring you nearer to Us only he who attains to faith and does what is right and just ; and it is these whom multiple recompense awaits for all that they have done; and it is they who shall dwell secure in the mansions ?Thanks. See also 3420-21, those who follow shaytan don't believe in alakhirah. Pay careful attention to min-almumineen in 3420. Do you think QuranistsTM are exempt here?
Why should people study it? For jannah? For the hereafter, for a better life in this dunya for awareness for goodness, for haqq.. why do you think? No, Quran doesn?t force people to study it but it?s available for people to study.
Man, if you need a book for all that you are screwed to begin with. I don't know how Ibrahim figured anything out without a quran to study...676-81.
3030
My focus is Quran i don?t want to study other/all books so let?s focus on belief on AlQuran as that is our concern
That's consistent. You won't study other books, but others SHOULD study this book to receive 'jannah' Is al-haqq limited to the quran?
(3941)
3941 is for whom the MESSAGE has reached, not a book called al quran. "You are not a keeper over them." - the messenger is not a wakeel over us/them. Did he start handing out qurans, 'here you go! go study it!' The messenger's job is also to clarify in the language of his qawm (144). Note this doesn't preclude some distant, modern-english-translation.
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Salam jack
Yes belief isn?t just what you utter, people can lie and people can profess to things they don?t believe. Saying you believe in something then doing something contrary to that belief is a worry or a sign of weak faith or lack of knowledge/understanding. Lots of possibilities... but my concern isn?t professing or hiding belief. Though you know you just kind of proved my point, they don?t need to profess in the belief of ?jinn? to believe in jin
Right, and if they back down they cease to believe in god/al akhira. Hence, it's their actions that made them NOT believe in god/al-akhira
Continue to read the verses following. Their actions affirmed their beliefs not that their actions made them not believe in God/akhira.
Thanks. See also 3420-21, those who follow shaytan don't believe in alakhirah. Pay careful attention to min-almumineen in 3420. Do you think QuranistsTM are exempt here?
No one is exempt from anything. Quranist can claim to follow Quran and represent Quran however at the end of the day it doesn?t matter what you label yourself as you will be accountable for your own actions. None of us are free from error even the best of the best.
Well i?m not Ibrahim and in that case I guess i?m screwed. Why believe in Quran if you don?t need it, why follow it? Gotta better guide, do share?
So belief in God and going good is enough, that gets jannah apparently? right? By what logic? Who says that is the case? Was it the Quran?
Why should i put effort into doing good as how Quran states if it has no avail? If just believing in God and doing good is good enough? Your implication is studying Quran isn?t worth your time because you can get the same reward simply be believing in God, doing good and contemplating about the universe.
So maybe you don?t need a guide but if you have one you?re better off, are you not? If you believe in it and you don?t follow it, what does it make you? Why not follow Quran? Why uphold Quran if you don?t need it?
Is al-haqq limited to the quran?
You tell me.
Alhaqq is in a lot of things. The ultimate haqq is Allah (2262 ) and i believe this haqq is shared with us in AlQuran read 2176.
if you don?t believe that Quran is haqq then i don?t know why people bother following it.
If we read the Quran and study it and reject it or don?t follow it, what does it make us? How then is belief in Quran necessary or unnecessary after that? wouldn't albayana be evident to them? (read chapter 9. Or maybe i can argue if God knew we didn?t need the Quran God wouldn?t have sent it.
To me belief in Quran is important. Probably i?m biased because of my background though others would say i'm a rebel.. i don?t know where life would have taken me otherwise. back to Ibrahim, i guess he followed the Quranic message without it, can many do that? I have no idea.