The door of ijtihad is closed?
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Yeh ijtihad is tailored today in the sunni world.. what i don?t get is why only 4 of the madhabs got recognised... is it because the others didn?t have as many followers, power issues, documentation i dunno.
I know a few sunnis who will say ?yeh there were many madhabs and they?re all right? but ok why aren?t they here now? And if they can accept the idea of many madhabs being right why must we be drawn to the 4 madhabs only.
there will still be people who study hadith and Quran without subscribing to a madhab but oddly they never seem to think to question the validity of hadith.
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Yeh ijtihad is tailored today in the sunni world.. what i don?t get is why only 4 of the madhabs got recognised... is it because the others didn?t have as many followers, power issues, documentation i dunno.
That's exactly right. I call it the Islamic Legal Economy. Market forces simply whittled the 500 or so madhabib to the 4 we have today.
I know a few sunnis who will say ?yeh there were many madhabs and they?re all right? but ok why aren?t they here now? And if they can accept the idea of many madhabs being right why must we be drawn to the 4 madhabs only.
When they tell you ?they?re all right?, please ask them ?does this mean that ?killing female apostates? is both right and wrong? (because they disagree on that).
there will still be people who study hadith and Quran without subscribing to a madhab but oddly they never seem to think to question the validity of hadith.
Salafees claim this but in reality, they have their own school. They resemble the hambali school.
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Salam Mr Noh,
I take your point that the word ijtihad isn't quranic but the act of legal reasoning (which is what ijtihad essentially is) is very Quranic indeed. We are commanded to judge by the book (4/105, 5/4 and so we need to reason to make the best decisions.
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When they tell you ?they?re all right?, please ask them ?does this mean that ?killing female apostates? is both right and wrong? (because they disagree on that).
Salafees claim this but in reality, they have their own school. They resemble the hambali school.Nah too complicated I'd be put on the spot for evidence. You gotta remember I'm female for 1 (deficient in intelligence, duh) and got no trustworthy knowledge status so i'd rather be like "if there is multiple acceptance of opinions why is everyone so rigid?" or "if 400 opinions could have been right, maybe i'm not going about it the wrong way"
really salafees resemble hambali.. i always would have thought they resembled shafi though there still are people who think madhabs arent necessary and Quran and sunnah (hadith) is enough. ah and also just listen/follow whoever is the majority to keep the unity
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Nah too complicated I'd be put on the spot for evidence. You gotta remember I'm female for 1 (deficient in intelligence, duh) and got no trustworthy knowledge status so i'd rather be like "if there is multiple acceptance of opinions why is everyone so rigid?" or "if 400 opinions could have been right, maybe i'm not going about it the wrong way"
really salafees resemble hambali.. i always would have thought they resembled shafi though there still are people who think madhabs arent necessary and Quran and sunnah (hadith) is enough. ah and also just listen/follow whoever is the majority to keep the unityLol, deficient in intelligence P
Hambalis believe the only 2 sources of ijtihad are Quran and sunnah, like salafees. The only differences is, their hadith science is frozen and subscribes to the standard collections whereas salafees are able to reclassify hadith to conform their own agenda.
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Salam Mr Noh,
I take your point that the word ijtihad isn't quranic but the act of legal reasoning (which is what ijtihad essentially is) is very Quranic indeed. We are commanded to judge by the book (4/105, 5/4 and so we need to reason to make the best decisions.
salam,
so ijtihad it is 'legal reasoning'.
but in the two verses you mentioned, in my understanding (if putting forth my understanding is alright) they are not regarding 'legal judgement', but rather in the forming of an understanding or opinion on people whom we are dealing with, so that we know what to do. but of course, this is based on my comprehension that alkitab is not the book, but rather the message, and God is still sending messages to us all as long as we ask for it. in this regard, i still need a message from God on how to understand the discussion thus far, and also on how to write this post. of course while writing this post, at the back of my mind is 68/36-39. in these verses i believe, legal judgments are best referred to God alone.
but you are entitled to your understanding, and i would never say your understanding is wrong. we should leave that to God alone, to be the judge.
and there is, if i am not mistaken 4/15, a verse regarding women who committed adultery. God did not determine the punishment for them, but asked them to meditate until a message is attained regarding their transgressions. i believe each case merits different recourse, thus the command for the woman to meditate.
so regarding ijtihad, i think it is irrelevant, not until one meditates and receives a message (alkitab) regarding the issue at hand.
but as i have mentioned, this is my personal comprehension. you are not suppose to agree, nor disagree - not until you meditate on it.
cheers!
mohammed noh
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Thank you Mr Noh,
I have no problem with the notion that 4/105 and 5/48 is about personal reasoning and I agree, the judgements are to God alone. However, in Quran there is also the notion of the leader of the community, the rasol and the ulil amr (4/59). These people are in charge of certain issues and so believers must follow them in their judgement (4/65). Perhaps in this capacity, there is legal ijtihad in Quran.
However, we can easily dispense with the word since the word itself isn't there.
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Sure ,It is not my Job to do ijtihaad.
Regards
salaam brother
why do you consider yourself ?
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Rasulhamsa, more importantly, why does he consider those guys to be baseer? Guys who turn Quranic injunctions upside down and abrogate Quran itself?
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Rasulhamsa, more importantly, why does he consider those guys to be baseer?
the main reason is, because he consider himself
btw that is the first time I saw him providing quranic proof of his claim.
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Would you please explain this "those guys" ?
Thanks
Regardssalaam brother.
first explain to us who are those eligible to do ijtihad? those who are not tom, dick and harry. and those who are baseer.
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Would you please explain this "those guys" ?
Thanks
RegardsGuys whom you believe when they tell you 'this is wau of state' and stuff like that.
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So what is your job? and who do you rely on for ijtihad? can they be contactable? or are they just people with rulings without allowing others to question/critique because we're all layman with no knowledge?
Honestly I am still in search of those persons.But if I do not find them I cannot accept ignorant persons to play with the Quran in the name of Ijtihaad.
If you do not find food to satisfy your hunger ,it does not mean you start eating FILTH.If you do not find a doctor to treat your disease ,it does not mean you go to a quack .
You might have heard
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.Regards
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ok so you haven't found them, wouldn't you think that it would be your duty to follow Quran to the best understanding you know? until you know otherwise... that's how it is isn't it? otherwise why bother living with the association of Quran? or having opinions? i'm sure you have opinions.
3918 (Asad) who listen to all that is said, and follow the best of it it is they whom God has graced with His guidance, and it is they who are endowed with insight!
sure you don't need to accept ignorant persons. inevitably your doing is your choice, no one is forcing ideologies down you.
the examples you gave, people do them when they need to and it isn't always bad.
little knowledge can be dangerous though if we are putting forth our little knowledge and getting different perspectives it increases knowledge so it's not such a bad thing, don't you think?
it's little knowledge and arrogance/stubbornness which is more dangerous in my opinion. you can have little knowledge and it can be good and you can follow the best of it.
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ok so you haven't found them, wouldn't you think that it would be your duty to follow Quran to the best understanding you know? until you know otherwise... that's how it is isn't it? otherwise why bother living with the association of Quran? or having opinions? i'm sure you have opinions.
You are right.It is exactly like this if you are ill and do not find a doctor ,you should try to handle your disease with best of you knowledge. But this does not give you any right or prerogative to declare yourself an Expert Doctor who can deliver medical opinions in the court of law.
Regards