The why and how of the bond mentioned in the reading
-
peace zubairus,
My understanding of slw (root of "salat" can be found here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htmThe regular/timed bond/salat for the mumineen is reading/reflection/oration of Quran. This requires concentration, paying attention etc as can be seen from many of the verses that discuss the regular/timed "salat", thus I am of the view that to make those undertaking salat to be lookouts for enemy is illogical, thus there is no, as you say, them looking out one direction, others looking out another direction. As M.Asad points out, the expression used has no directional element.
When someone is reading a passage to others however, it is common, for the audience to be facing that person.
Bringing their weapons with them is useful if they are attacked, simple.
-
Peace brother wakas
Thanks for the gesture-the response. But you did not as I requested explaine for me how you as a person uphold the bond. I have gone through the link you referenced.
Now am I right to infer that whenever a person, a mumin, takes the message, read from it,contemplate over it and accept what is said, he/she has upheld the bond ?
I really need to get the issue clear.I have used the word accept instead of submit to get the picture of the issue clear but stand to be corrected.
For the purposeof clarification, I never meant that those upholding the bond are facing a direction in order to look out for the enemy. Definitly they are facing either directions or a direction but I opted for a direction.
Peace.
ZUBAIRUS.
-
peace zubairus,
But you did not as I requested explaine for me how you as a person uphold the bond. I have gone through the link you referenced.
Now am I right to infer that whenever a person, a mumin, takes the message, read from it,contemplate over it and accept what is said, he/she has upheld the bond ?
I really need to get the issue clear.I didn't realise you were asking how I personally uphold the bond, I thought we were discussing the possible directional element in this verse!
You missed about the preparation part, e.g. 56/443, but basically what you said for the regular/timed salat/bond is my understanding, for the mumineen.
-
Peace brother wakas.
Sorry, I took for granted the preparation part.
Now what happen when a mumeen read from the message and he is unable to comprehend what is said uptill the time he stops? I s the said bond upheld?
Peace.
ZUBAIRUS
443 O you who have assurance/trust (ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo), do not come near the bond while you are drunk, until you know what you are saying...
-
443 O you who have assurance/trust (ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo), do not come near the bond while you are drunk, until you know what you are saying...
Peace
What I mean is where one read from the message and is contemplating on the possibilities trying to arrive at the actual meaning.
Peace.
ZUBAIRUS
-
peace zubairus,
There is a difference between understanding/comprehending and acknowledging. Of course, it is preferable to have both I would think.
As far as I'm aware, nowhere in The Quran does it say one must understand 100% of everything mentioned/contained in it. One must aim to do so to the best of their ability, sincerely etc.
Lastly, the person leading the regular/timed salat/bond would likely be more knowledgeable than average, thus the chances of this are reduced.
May I ask what point you are trying to get at, if any? Specifically, how this relates to the alleged directional element in this verse?
-
Peace brother wakas,
Actually I am not particular about the directional element of the bond at the moment but the acceptance/submission/acknowledgement aspect.
The fact is this, one can actually acnowledge what is understood to an extent.
But the issue here is a situation where a person is contemplating on possibilities trying to understand what is meant.
What happen to the bond?
Peace.
ZUBAIRUS
-
peace zubairus,
It means a person may uphold the bond without the acceptance/submission/acknowledgement and it is valid.
That is not my understanding, but if that is yours, each to their own.
It seems you have equated understanding/comprehending and acknowledging/sjd. Evidence?
-
Peace brother wakas,
If you agree that SJD = Submission, you may replace my aknowledgement with submission and respond to my request. If no, do please tell me your exact equivalent of SJD.
Peace.ZUBAIRUS
What (I think) he means is that it is erronous to equate understanding what is being said during the bond with acknowledging/submission (sjd), since one can understand what is being said during the bond yet not submit to/obey (sjd) what is being said/read, since one may be a hypocrite/want to ignore God's signs.
Also, one has missed the point of the bond if one understands what is being said/read but does not obey/acknowledge/submit (sjd). -
Peace brother wakas,
Actually I am not particular about the directional element of the bond at the moment but the acceptance/submission/acknowledgement aspect.
The fact is this, one can actually acnowledge what is understood to an extent.
But the issue here is a situation where a person is contemplating on possibilities trying to understand what is meant.
What happen to the bond?
Peace.
ZUBAIRUS
Peace.
Actually I did not equate understanding with acknowledgement and we are particular about a mumeen upholding the bond.
A PERSON NEED TO UNDERSTAND ATLEAST TO AN EXTENT BEFORE SUBMISSION.Peace.
ZUBAIRUS.
-
Peace brother wakas
peace zubairus,
There is a difference between understanding/comprehending and acknowledging. Of course, it is preferable to have both I would think.
As far as I'm aware, nowhere in The Quran does it say one must understand 100% of everything mentioned/contained in it. One must aim to do so to the best of their ability, sincerely etc.
Lastly, the person leading the regular/timed salat/bond would likely be more knowledgeable than average, thus the chances of this are reduced.May I ask what point you are trying to get at, if any? Specifically, how this relates to the alleged directional element in this verse?
You said one must not understand 100%.Agreed. I said atleast to an extent. I think we are saying the samething and we have taken for granted the language used.
My request is this, when one is upholding the bond,he is confronted with a verse with variose interpretations. He is contemplating on the possibilities to arrive at the actual meaning to the level of his understanding. Sometimes it easily resoved but sometimes this take time.What happene to the bond?
Concluded without submission?
Bond suspended till the meaning is uncovered?
Submission blindly?
This is the request.
Peace.ZUBAIRUS
-
peace zubairus,
My understanding is that the regular/timed bond would end the same way, with sjd/acknowledgement.
If someone shows you how to clean a car, but you dont understand one aspect of the task, this does not mean you should suspend all car cleaning activity. You apply what you know, build from there, with sincerity, e.g. 37, 3918, 1736. One still acknowledges the direction/goal and takes steps in this direction.
-
Peace brother wakas,
Honestly your anology is not satisfying. And when we talk of mummeen he has accepted that the entire message is from Allah. But in upholding the bond, the understanding and submission in question are with regards to the particular vers or verses read.
Brother, look at it from this perspective,if it had been that you upheld bond for me using these verse 4101 to 103, we both beleive they are from Allah I suppose, but see how far we have come trying to arrive at what is meant in the verses.
In a situation like this, how can I submit when I am yet to agree to your understanding, neither do you agree to mine?What happen to the bond I repeat?
Peace.
ZUBAIRUS
