None in the worlds was homosexual before Lut's people?
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This is what the Quran says about Lut's people(Lot in the Bible), taken from the Free minds site translation
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And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"
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"You are approaching the men out of desire instead of the women! Indeed, you are a transgressing people."As it happens, homosexuality is amply present in many creatures, from mammals to insects.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animalsThis ancient Egyptian couple is widely speculated to be male lovers
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnumhotep_and_Niankhkhnum
Why does Allah claim that "none in the worlds" was homosexual before Lut's people, given that homosexuality is present in so many other animals?
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This is what the Quran says about Lut's people(Lot in the Bible), taken from the Free minds site translation
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And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"
781
"You are approaching the men out of desire instead of the women! Indeed, you are a transgressing people."As it happens, homosexuality is amply present in many creatures, from mammals to insects.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animalsThis ancient Egyptian couple is widely speculated to be male lovers
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnumhotep_and_Niankhkhnum
Why does Allah claim that "none in the worlds" was homosexual before Lut's people, given that homosexuality is present in so many other animals?
And what does it mean "worlds" instead of "world"
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Why does Allah claim that "none in the worlds" was homosexual before Lut's people, given that homosexuality is present in so many other animals?
Where does Allah claim this? Lot says this. Grabbing at straws again, I see. The verse says 'worlds', so its referring to aliens as well. ) Nevermind, how quran uses this word
"O Mary, God Has selected you and cleansed you, and He has selected you over the women of the worlds." - 342 - Obviously, the verse is also talking about alien-women )
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Where does Allah claim this? Lot says this. Grabbing at straws again, I see. The verse says 'worlds', so its referring to aliens as well. Nevermind, how quran uses this word
"O Mary, God Has selected you and cleansed you, and He has selected you over the women of the worlds." - 342 - Obviously, the verse is also talking about alien-women
Interesting. Or does it mean worlds in the sense on "my world (my society)" and "your world (your society)"?
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Where does Allah claim this? Lot says this. Grabbing at straws again, I see. The verse says 'worlds', so its referring to aliens as well. Nevermind, how quran uses this word
"O Mary, God Has selected you and cleansed you, and He has selected you over the women of the worlds." - 342 - Obviously, the verse is also talking about alien-women
Lets not forget that Quran doesn't allow us to use history to explain or confirm it. Therefore, 'maa sabaqoo' here refers an unprecended crime in terms of severity NOT time. Fawzia's reading the Quran in pieces (but at least she's actually reading now, which is a step forward).
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Where does Allah claim this? Lot says this. Grabbing at straws again, I see. The verse says 'worlds', so its referring to aliens as well. Nevermind, how quran uses this word
"O Mary, God Has selected you and cleansed you, and He has selected you over the women of the worlds." - 342 - Obviously, the verse is also talking about alien-women
;D Thanks for the laugh lol!
What use is "also" & "as well" aliens when in the Earth itself, so many creatures are homosexual or bisexual?
Or has Allah forgotten about the Earth's homosexual creatures which He created?
Your excuse is clutching at straws, not my question.
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AAalameena means creations/beings.
Please use forum search function, e.g.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596520.msg51053#msg51053Excellent! Thanks.
"AAalameena means creations/beings."
As I showed, other creatures apart from humansare "homosexual". ;D
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
So Allah wasn't aware or had forgotten of the homosexual creatures he'd created.
Thank you again Wakas, really appreciated your help in showing how Allah had created homosexual beings & creations he'd forgotten about.
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Lets not forget that Quran doesn't allow us to use history to explain or confirm it. Therefore, 'maa sabaqoo' here refers an unprecended crime in terms of severity NOT time. Fawzia's reading the Quran in pieces (but at least she's actually reading now, which is a step forward).
Well, the Quran is worded in a way that refers to creations in time, re
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And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"Quran does unfortunately refer to time.
I have read the entire Quran multiple times.
Course the Quran doesn't allow use of history, because of these glaring inconsistencies.
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I know you value 'genuine scholarship' a lot (lol) but surprisingly , the word 'had done' before isn't there. I know you despise reading Arabic (in case it pollutes your racial purity) but maybe you can look for the phrase 'min qablikum' (from before you) which DOES NOT exist in 7/80. Many thanks
Question in your 'genuine scholarship', does history always come in a single version? What word does one use to describe multiple versions of something? Consistent or.... ?
Well, the Quran is worded in a way that refers to creations in time, re
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And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"Quran does unfortunately refer to time.
I have read the entire Quran multiple times.
Course the Quran doesn't allow use of history, because of these glaring inconsistencies.
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Excellent! Thanks.
"AAalameena means creations/beings."
As I showed, other creatures apart from humansare "homosexual". ;D
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
So Allah wasn't aware or had forgotten of the homosexual creatures he'd created. D
Thank you again Wakas, really appreciated your help in showing how Allah had created homosexual beings & creations he'd forgotten about.
I would like to see your interpretation of 26165 Do you approach the males of the beings?
Were Lot's people committing bestiality? D ...context...
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I know you value 'genuine scholarship' a lot (lol) but surprisingly , the word 'had done' before isn't there. I know you despise reading Arabic (in case it pollutes your racial purity) but maybe you can look for the phrase 'min qablikum' (from before you) which DOES NOT exist in 7/80. Many thanks P
Question in your 'genuine scholarship', does history always come in a single version? What word does one use to describe multiple versions of something? Consistent or.... ?
Yeah, I don't want to read Arabic, for whatever reason, & I know that you love to play the race card. You don't know thousands of languages in the world either.
Even without before you, the statement is this
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And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done?"This is again, an example of time & as I showed, homosexuality exists amongst animals as well.
And I have read multiple translations of the Quran, like Pickthall etc, all denote the sense of time.
If Arabic is so neccessary to understand the Quran, then perhaps Allah had better said that Islam should be restricted to the Arabs, & forbidden Muslims from proselytizing other non Arabs, if Islam intended to be a global faith, then it better be capable of translation too.
Or perhaps Allah could have micro chipped knowledge of Arabic into every human, after all, when so many things are so "easy for Allah," ( As He claims) & Arabic trnslation is soo difficult, then He could have selected the micro chipping option. ;D
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I would like to see your interpretation of 26165 Do you approach the males of the beings?
Were Lot's people committing bestiality? D ...context...
Why these attempts at obfuscating? Because even your traslation helps my cause?
"AAalameena means creations/beings."
If homosexuality existed in so many animals, it also existed in humans is not unatural.
Like this Egyptian couple
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnumhotep_and_Niankhkhnum
They're 4400 years old, Abraham is believed to be 4000 years old.
A behavior which exists in so many animals, & exists amongst humans all over the world-why shouldn't any human not do it before Lut's people? ;D
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I repeat, because you dodged my question
I would like to see your interpretation of 26165 Do you approach the males of the beings?
Were Lot's people committing bestiality? D ...context...
Point is lot's story in conjunction with other verses clearly show that he's talking about humans, not all beings. Beings can refer to other beings, but it can also refer to human..beings (397 for example). Context determines this.
The only 'cause' I am interested in is the truth.
Abraham is believed to be 4000 years old.
Nice conjecture. Bring forth your proof, if you are truthful. So, fawzia 'believed' to be 85 years old = fawzia being 85 years old. Got it. )
The quran doesn't tell any of us when these guys lived. Nor does it want us to care about their history, rather the lessons their stories contain (12111). While, you are researching Abraham's history, don't forget that he's a nation (16120). I hope you are ready to show me the nation of Abraham. The problems you can get into when you take the quranic language so literally 226. -
These are translations of the Quran by 4 renowned authors
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YUSUFALI We also (sent) Lut He said to his people "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?
PICKTHAL And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?
SHAKIR And (We sent) Lut when he said to his people What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you?
ARBERRYAnd Lot, when he said to his people, 'What, do you commit such indecency as never any being in all the world committed before you? See, you approach men lustfully instead of women; no, you are a people that do exceed.'So many translations all saying the exact same thing, that homosexuality was unknown before Lut's people, whereas the fact is that it was & is indulged in by various animals & by humans all over our world for millennia!  
Regarding Arabic again, not everyone in the world is born Arab, Arabs are a minority amongst Muslims. And the Arabic tongue is subject to change over time, like every other language on earth. English 500 years ago wasn't exactly the same as today. Arabic is subject to these changes as well. Thus, people would not only need to learn Arabic, but classical Arabic as well.
Obviously thats an unneccessary & needlessly time consuming task, if the only result is to be able to read one book, when multiple translations are available.
I would trust the above 4 translators as they all say the exact same thing. The conclusion is that Allah feels homosexuality before Lut's folk, whereas clear evidence from the world suggests otherwise. D
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I repeat, because you dodged my question
Point is lot's story in conjunction with other verses clearly show that he's talking about humans, not all beings. Beings can refer to other beings, but it can also refer to human..beings (397 for example). Context determines this.
The only 'cause' I am interested in is the truth.
Nice conjecture. Bring forth your proof, if you are truthful. So, fawzia 'believed' to be 85 years old = fawzia being 85 years old. Got it. )
The quran doesn't tell any of us when these guys lived. Nor does it want us to care about their history, rather the lessons their stories contain (12111). While, you are researching Abraham's history, don't forget that he's a nation (16120). I hope you are ready to show me the nation of Abraham. The problems you can get into when you take the quranic language so literally 226.Its not I who's doing the dodging, but you. D
I have quoted 4 eminent translators to prove my point.
The Quran conveniently claims that its free of error & challenges unbelievers to find errors,yet when stories run counter to science & history, then we have to stop caring? ;D
Oh sure, the Quran wants us to avoid taking it literally at times, coz then errors would be obvious! D
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This is what the Quran says about Lut's people(Lot in the Bible), taken from the Free minds site translation
780
And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"
781
"You are approaching the men out of desire instead of the women! Indeed, you are a transgressing people."As it happens, homosexuality is amply present in many creatures, from mammals to insects.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animalsThis ancient Egyptian couple is widely speculated to be male lovers
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnumhotep_and_Niankhkhnum
Why does Allah claim that "none in the worlds" was homosexual before Lut's people, given that homosexuality is present in so many other animals?
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/7.80.gif
And Luet We sent him when he said to his nation;http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/7.80a.gif
"Do you people come to that type of illicit sexual activity for which act there is not even a single precedence in the people in times before you people?http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20Al%20Airaaf%20H.htm
Many animals have homosexuality, masterbation, oral sex etc and human beings equate themselves with such animals when they indulge in these lusts. Egyption couple referred above is much after the time of Luet alai'his'slaam.
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Welcome Fawzia.
Like this Egyptian couple
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnumhotep_and_Niankhkhnum
They're 4400 years old, Abraham is believed to be 4000 years old.
Actually, by my estimates, Abraham and Lot would have been 4,600-4,700 years ago at least.
So, if you have evidence that homosexuality was a rampant behaviour like the people of Lot engaged in, prior to Lot, then you are correct and the Quran is wrong.
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/7.80.gif
And Luet We sent him when he said to his nation;http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/7.80a.gif
"Do you people come to that type of illicit sexual activity for which act there is not even a single precedence in the people in times before you people?http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20Al%20Airaaf%20H.htm
Many animals have homosexuality, masterbation, oral sex etc and human beings equate themselves with such animals when they indulge in these lusts. Egyption couple referred above is much after the time of Luet alai'his'slaam.
Many of human attributes is also found amongst animals of all races & nations-we are animals after all, albeit intelligent animals. )
Thus, if animals have rape, humans do as well.
All other sorts of animals behavior like masturbation, oral sex etc are found in animals, difficult to believe that somehow only this one behavior was absolutely absent amongst humans.
