Please help translating 2:125- Thanks

san

Peace herbman,

Not that i pretend to be of any help here, but i just want to share my current view on how to see this natural, physically-boundless relationship and interaction between humanity, under the invitation of the Nurturer of all Natures -- which can be performed by any family or household, at any time and at any home place and in any community on this earth... yet it feels just right at home &nbsp

And when We made "the family, the home, the household",

an ever-returning place for humanity and a safety--trusted, secure and peaceful;

and they have taken from establishment of Ibrahim, way to follow, to remain attached;

And We made promise to Ibrahim and Ismail that,

'clean, purify -- My family, My home, My household --

for them coming, walking around, visiting by, often -- and the inhabitants, the hosts, the dwellers, arranging --

and the humbles, bowing, humbling -- the honourings, lowering, respecting, saluting, magnifying.'

After this verse onward, i'd put my focus on the efforts of Nabiyyin Ibrahim and Ismail to build/develop/grow a family, a community, a nation, as muslims to Allah -- as a prime example for all humanity. Here is my very limited approach to understand each word in the verse 2125

and when We made the family/home/household
wa- idh jaaln 'l-bayta

a returning place for Alnas and a safety/security/trust/faith/peace
mathbatan lilnnsi wa-amnan

and they have taken from establishment/order/conductment/regulation (of) Ibrahim
wa-ittakhidh min maqmi ib'rhma

muSalla way/mode/how/practice to/of Salaat/follow/remain-attached
muallan

and We promised to Ibrahim and Ismail that
waahid'n il ib'rhma wa-is'mla an

purify/clean My family/home/household
ahhir baytiya

for them visiting/circulating/coming/going-around-(often)
lilifna

and the inhabitants/dweller/arranging/setting-continuously, constantly, perseveringly
wal-kifna

and the humbles/humbling/bowing, the honouring/saluting/respecting/magnifying
wal-rukai 'l-sujdi

Please let me know what you think.

Peace

Tha-Waw-Ba = to return, turn back to, to restore/recover, to repent, to collect/gather.
to call/summon (repeatedly), rise (dust), to flow, become abundant.
something returned (recompence, reward, compensation), to repay.
a thing which veils/covers/protects, a distinct body or company of people.
mathabatan - place of return, place to which a visit entitles one to thawab/reward, assembly/congregation for people who were dispersed/separated previously, place of alighting, abode, house, tent.
raiments, garments, morals, behaviour, heart, dependents, followers, robes, clothes, pure/good hearted, of good character.

Alif-Meem-Nun = become/feel safe/secure, state of security/safety, trust, become quiet/tranquil in heart/mind, become free of expectation of evil or free of an object of dislike/hatred, promise/assurance of security/safety, become trustful/faithful/confident, to believe/acknowledge it, manifestation of humility/submission.

Alif-Kha-Dhal = to take in one's hand, received/acquired, derived/deduced/admitted, accepted, accept a covenant, affected/influenced, overpowering influence, take captive, gain mastery/slew/destroy, captivate/fascinate.
Ittakhidhuu (prt. 3rd. m. plu. VIII) They have.

Qaf-Waw-Miim = stand still or firm, rose/stand up, managed/conducted/ordered/regulated/superintended, established, made it straight/right, maintain/erect/observe/perform, set up, people/community/company, abode, stature/dignity/rank. aqama - to keep a thing or an affair in a right state.

Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.
In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.

Ba-Ya-Ta =
by/in/at night (excluding sleep), entered upon or passed the night
tent, house, home
Thinking about something and its end result
Concealed or conceived something in the mind
A structure of clay or any structure signifying a habitation, an abode or dwelling.
Buildings, uninhabited houses, shops, ruins, bazaars, places where the entering is allowed by the owners.
Ark of Noah, Mosques, places of worship, Kaabeh or Jerusalem
A grave
Household or family
Nobility
Sudden attack in the night or a surprise attack in the night
Remaining through the night (e.g. bread or water that stays out and becomes stale)

Tay-Waw-Fa = act of going/walking, going/walking around or otherwise, to go or wander about, circuited/compassed, journeyed, came to him, come upon, visitation, visit, approach, drew near, to go round or round about often, encompass,
"the men/people/locusts filled the land like the TWF/flood/deluge", overpowering/overwhelming rain/water that covers,
a servant that serves one with gentleness and carefulness,
a detached/distinct part/portion, a piece or bit, a party/division/sect,
a sort of raisins of which the bunches are composed of closely-compacted berries, a garment in which one goes round or circuits, a place of going round or round about.

Ayn-Kaf-Fa = to arrange, set a thing in order, he kept or clave to it constantly and perseveringly, continue intently, they went round something, advance/approach it, withheld/detain/confined, to seclude oneself, remain/stay/dwell.
'aakif (act. pic. m. sing.) inhabitant.
'aakifuuna / aakifiina (acc./ act. pic. pl.) those who are performing i'tikaaf.

Ra-Kaf-Ayn = bowed, bent, incline, humility, humble yourself, lower the head, fell upon his face, stumbled.

Siin-Jiim-Dal = lowly, humble, submissive, worship, adore, prostrate, make obeisance, lower/bend oneself down towards the ground, lower the head, to salute/honour/magnify, to pay respect, to stand up, to look continuedly and tranquily.

ref
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
http//quran.uk.net/WordByWord.aspx?chapter=2&verse=125

herbman

Salam, Peace,

thanks for your reply.

I was mainly interested in this verse about the translation of muSalla which I found a message from someone here (use search tool) interesting.

muSalla linker

It makes sens to me cause if you read carefuly the verse it clearly says that it is "maqam ibrahim" which is "muSalla".

Therefore I would translate it as

We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety;
and take ye the position/faith of ibrahim as a linker;
and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma`il that they should sanctify/purify My Beit/House for those who visit it or use it as a retreat or bow, or prostrate themselves .

san

I was mainly interested in this verse about the translation of muSalla which I found a message from someone here (use search tool) interesting.

muSalla linker

It makes sens to me cause if you read carefuly the verse it clearly says that it is "maqam ibrahim" which is "muSalla".

Hi, i got the drift re muSalla--linker (link ~ attach ...), but linker to and of what?

i'll try a search, you might want to link the post here as well.

Thanks

san

@herbman, do you meant this one?

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596565.msg5571#msg5571

Wat-taqizu min-maqam-mi Ibrohim-ma Mu-Sol-lan.
(Chapter 2 Verse 125)

Learn from the status of Abraham the Committed

Mu-Sol-lan (singular) -Once In Chapter 2 Verse 125 they are translated as ?Aplace of worship?. NOT ?people who perform ritual

I tend to agree for the reasons listed in his article, I only really disagree with his outcome of the method and translation of the word. The proof you gave above does not appear to be as strong, but my Arabic is weak. I hope someone will jump in and halp us with this.

In either case, it works for me. If it is a characteristic, then it is Abraham, A linker(one who links). If it is a place, then that place must be metaphorical as the spiritual place Abraham attained through discipline. So either way works for me. Please share your opinion of this.

I too see Prophet Ibrahim as the key in understanding Salaat (and all about islam in general). However, i'm trying for this moment to approach certain concepts in Alqur'aan not as something physical (bound in space/time such as a structure or a site). Verses 2225-26 led me into this verse (2125) and i am too deeply interested in these words

maqam and muSalla

I already have some ideas about Salaat, in regard to the examples given through the verses concerning Ibrahim -- though it's still scarce and there are still missing things. What d'you think about the maqam and muSalla in this verse, and which verses d'you think is directly related to this one, concerning these two terms?

Peace

Mazhar

is

san

is

Yes, location adverb. Thank you.

Now where is the muSalla? Yes, it is where Ibrahim stood. All people should go there--no matter where they are, they must go to where Ibrahim stood--if they were to be in muSalla. There is no muSalla but there. Make perfect sense. Thank you.

Wakas

As far as I'm aware "mu" means "one who... (whatever it is attached to)", e.g. muslim, mumin, mushrik.

So, in this case the literal rendering of "musallan" = "one who turns/goes towards in a close/positive manner" or more succinctly "one who bonds".

bkanwar2

As far as I'm aware "mu" means "one who... (whatever it is attached to)", e.g. muslim, mumin, mushrik.

So, in this case the literal rendering of "musallan" = "one who turns/goes towards in a close/positive manner" or more succinctly "one who bonds".

Dear Wakas, referance for what you said in red, please.

Badar

san

never mind my last post above -- got a bit itchy at such an 'elegant' reply P

As far as I'm aware "mu" means "one who... (whatever it is attached to)", e.g. muslim, mumin, mushrik.

So, in this case the literal rendering of "musallan" = "one who turns/goes towards in a close/positive manner" or more succinctly "one who bonds".

Peace Wakas,

isn't there muSalli/muSalliyn for that? Plus, there are only muSalliyn in AQ and not muSalli, perhaps another clue that (Al)Salaat is to be performed in company.

Besides, "take from maqaam Ibrahim, one who Salla" seems a little off to me. Unless, you meant "take from maqaam Ibrahim--one who Salla" (without being specified as to what to take?)

remaqaam

I took a look at concordances of maqaam in AQ (other than 2125 and 397) and am almost sure to say that "physical standing position/place" NEVER make sense (at least to me) for each of them except 2739 (though it's possibly allegorical).

In most of them, "way of life/conduct of life" would make best sense to me.

Interesting concepts directly related with maqaam in those verses

maqm wa tadhkr bi yti l-lahi (1071)

khfa maqm, wa khfa wa`di (1414); khfa maqma rabbihi; wanah l-nafsa ani l-haw (5546; 7940)

maqman maHmuwdan, Sidqin? (1779)

khayrun maqman wa 'aHsanu (1973)

maqmin karim (2658, 4426)

wam minn ill lahu maqmun malmun (37164)

l-muttaqna f maqmin amnin (4451)

Peace

Wakas

peace,

bkanwar,

It was based on my observations, so no specific reference.

However, I believe it comes under active/passive participles. I could be wrong in what it comes under.

e.g.

Participle
Every verb has a corresponding active participle, and most have passive participles. E.g. muallim 'teacher' is the active participle to stem II. of the root -l-m ('know&#039.
The active participle to Stem I is filun, and the passive participle is maflun.
Stems II-X take prefix mu- and nominal endings for both the participles, active and passive. The difference between the two participles is only in the vowel between the last two root letters, which is -i- for active and -a- for passive (e.g. II. active mu-fail-un, and passive mu-faal-un&#039.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_grammar

san,

I am not 100% on the Arabic/grammar, but whichever way, I dont see a problem with it. And yes, from my studies "maqam" rarely, if ever , means a physical place of standing.

Mazhar

Yes, location adverb. Thank you.

Now where is the muSalla? Yes, it is where Ibrahim stood. All people should go there--no matter where they are, they must go to where Ibrahim stood--if they were to be in muSalla. There is no muSalla but there. Make perfect sense. Thank you.

But people from outside world are asked to visit that place if they have resources to go there.

san

Peace all,

But people from outside world are asked to visit that place if they have resources to go there.

Outside world.

Resources.

Resources from outside world are being brought to inside world. Inside world gain resources. Outside world gain spiritual contentment. Stay this way--long live the kingdom on which Mecca stand.

919

Peace

Mazhar

Peace all,

Outside world.

Resources.

Resources from outside world are being brought to inside world. Inside world gain resources. Outside world gain spiritual contentment. Stay this way--long live the kingdom on which Mecca stand.

919

Peace

It is otherway round. "Resources" have flown from "inside world" to outside world.

san

It is otherway round. "Resources" have flown from "inside world" to outside world.

'long live "inside world" -- the source of "Resources" to outside world.'

Peace

unknownuser

Peace all,

Outside world.

Resources.

Resources from outside world are being brought to inside world. Inside world gain resources. Outside world gain spiritual contentment. Stay this way--long live the kingdom on which Mecca stand.

919

Peace

I think it should have been something likethough.

(2125)And (remember) when we made The system of vying with one another for firmness of mankind and peace/safety and take from standing (of) Abraham the counselor. And we covenanted with Abraham and Ishmael that they purify/make righteous my system for those wanting to do good and who devote themselves and those who humble the submitting.

Do you still believe in Mecca after all that you have read here at free-minds?

I am glad i stopped , thank God.

san

@simple,

I have presented my view before

... i just want to share my current view on how to see this natural, physically-boundless relationship and interaction between humanity, under the invitation of the Nurturer of all Natures -- which can be performed by any family or household, at any time and at any home place and in any community on this earth...

You might want to ask those who still believe in Mecca, the city. Not me. P

herbman

As far as I'm aware "mu" means "one who... (whatever it is attached to)", e.g. muslim, mumin, mushrik.

So, in this case the literal rendering of "musallan" = "one who turns/goes towards in a close/positive manner" or more succinctly "one who bonds".

Salam, Peace Wakas, all,

1- mussalan in the verse refer to makan and not to ibrahim, please correct if I am wrong.
2- mu- prefix can be more general not only for persons e.g. mubarak (where baraka is on, can be a day, a year, a place)
3- maqam ibrahima mussalan could mean Ibrahim's position/faith is a where the bond/link is on--> which means The key to perform the bond/link is to get the same position as Ibrahim about Monotheism/association.

Peace

san

Peace Herbman and everyone,

Salam, Peace Wakas, all,

1- mussalan in the verse refer to makan and not to ibrahim, please correct if I am wrong.
2- mu- prefix can be more general not only for persons e.g. mubarak (where baraka is on, can be a day, a year, a place)
3- maqam ibrahima mussalan could mean Ibrahim's position/faith is a where the bond/link is on--> which means The key to perform the bond/link is to get the same position as Ibrahim about Monotheism/association.

Peace

makan? you mean maqam? how/why?
for the example of "mubarak"

692 kitaabun as mubarakun
6155 kitaabun as mubarakun
1931 (Iysa 'ibn Maryam) as mubarakan 2150 d.ikrun (a reminder) as mubarakun 2329 munzalan (place to descend sth?) as mubarakan 2435 s.ajaratin (tree) as mubarakatin 2830 Albuqati (a water source?) as Almubarakati
449 laylatin (night) as mubarakatin
509 maa`an (water) from the sky as mubarakan

mu- could well be the performer--i.e, a subject who performs something. In case of mubarak-, the performer of barakah -- e.g., if you take "barakah" as "blessing", then "mubarak-" is the performer/deliverer of blessing.

note in the example above, the 'suffix' is always in harmony with the subject

Now let's get to the trickier verse

396 Inna awwala baytin wudia li-lnaAsi la-llad.iy bi-bakkata mubaArakAn wa hudAn li-lalamiyn

mubarakan wahudan ... yet no other subject with -an in the verse. Does mubarakan refer to another subject not in the verse? Or does mubarakan refer to no one in particular? Thus the "awwal" in the verse means the "beginning" of a bayt (i.e., not the First House)?

Because i have another view to read this verse as

Indeed -- beginning of -- a bayt (home/house/family) -- appointed/brought forth/delivered/laid-in-place -- for mankind -- (em) is that which -- with hardship/denial/pressure/competition -- of a mubarak (one with blessing, or one striving/exerting/laboring, firmly/constantly/continuously) -- and a guidance -- for the worlds.

In 367 Ibrahim is "Hanifan musliman"; in 1931 `Iysa is "mubarakan"; in 2125, min maqaAmi IbraAhiyma muSallan

Considering the examples above, now i begin to think that muSallan is indeed Ibrahim himself and not the maqam. However, i very much agree that the key to understand Salla/Salaat is indeed in the maqam of Ibrahim. Which, i think, is explained extensively through AQ...

Previously we know that there is a relation between maqamin and Aminin (4451). Within the verse 2125 itself, is there some kind of relationship between the characters of Albayt with Salla/Salaat? I mean

mat.aabatan ~ AmnAn ~ muSallAn ?

returning/gathering/summoning/congregation ~ safety/security/faith/peace ~ Salaat ?

Peace

Wakas

peace herbman,

I'm unable to clarify the grammar aspect at the moment. However, either way, I'm not sure if it impacts my present view. Perhaps someone can clarify the grammar aspect.

Joe_Betik

salamun AAalaykum herbman & the rest,

perhaps you may want to consider this

And then We made meditation (Wa-ith jaAAalna albayta) an asylum for people (mathabatan lilnnasi), and a method to appease the mind (waamnan), and you (pl.) make out of Ibrahim?s standing (waittakhithoo min maqami ibraheem), one with the burning desire to know (musallan). And We have assigned Ibrahim (waAAahidna ila ibraheema) and also Ismael (wa-ismaAAeel) to refine the meditation on Me (an tahhira baytiya), for those wandering in thoughts (liltta-ifeen) while devoting (waalAAakifeen), and also the respectfully acknowledging (waalrrukkaAAi alssujoodi).
And then Ibrahim said (Wa-ith qala ibraheem), ?My Lord, make this ?idiot? peaceful (rabbi ijAAal hatha baladan aminan), and provide my followers with the benefits (waorzuq ahlahu mina alththamarat), whoever among them who believe in God and the last day (man amana minhum biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhir).? He said (qala), ?But whoever is ungrateful (waman kafara), then his happiness is for a little while (faomattiAAuhu qaleelan), then I shall drive him to the agony of fire (thumma adtarruhu ila AAathabi alnnar). What an evil destination (wabi/sa almaseer)!?

may God guide us on the correct path, insha-Allah.

peace
mohammed noh