What is "ghayb"?
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Peace be upon you,
Also, unseen is not the same as UNKNOWN/UNVERIFIED.This is where most are getting confused. The God NEVER asks us to believe in the UNKNOWN, only in the UNSEEN. Gravity is UNSEEN, but verifyable.
Peace,
The above is incorrect. Ghayb does not mean "unseen". grayb is from the verb ghaab which means to be absent. From studying many verses that use the word "ghayb" I concluded that "ghayb" means that which did not enter someone's knowledge yet, and it is relative. for example what I had for lunch today is "ghayb" to you, but itsnt for those who were at lunch with me.Mohamed~
Peace be upon you Mohammad,
Thank you for the trouble. I certainly want to discuss this because I cannot see how one can have faith in the unknown. It seems to me that once something is mentioned, like those events in the reading(quran), then they are not classified as UNKNOWN anymore, even though they are still unverified. However, that which is unseen (absent from sight) is still unseen, even after we are told about it.
Salam Bro and All,
First a rectification, the root verb from which "ghayb" derives, and which is "ghaaba" means "to go hidden from the eyes".
Now, "ghayb" means absent from knowledge, or simply unknown. unknown to whom? to someone, and the someone in question is to be defined by the context where the word ghayb occurs. In daily Arabic, when someone says do you know what I did to day? people reply Only God knows al-ghayb. I think that saying captures the meaning I personally assign to "ghayb". "ghayb" is not a closed set of information, a finite discreet list of data, some of which is selectively shared with the elite of mankind. A few verses should clarify what I mean here. The opposite of the concept of "ghayb" is "shahada" as in 673, from the verb "shahida" which means "to witness", a word in the family of which you will find "shaahada" which means "to watch" and mushahid which means "spectator". information quits the domain of "ghayb" into the domain of "shahada" when one gets to know about it. ghayb/unknown --> to know ---> shahada.
In the story of Yusuf, the wife of al-AAazeez says in 1252 so that he may know that I did not betray him in "ghayb". meaning that I did not do it in his absence, while he was not there and hence unable to know about it.
In the story of Sulaimaan, 2720, he inspects the birds and notices one of them, the hudhud, is not there, he says is he from amongst al-ghaa-i-been/the absents.
In 1149, God recounts events about Nuh then says "that is information from "al-ghayb" that neither you nor you people knew about before". But know that information is no more part of our "ghayb", since Quran told us about it.
In 344 we are told about some events regarding Marriam, then the verse says "that is information from al-ghayb that we reveal to you and you were not with them while they were trying to figure out who would take care of Marriam".
In 77, God says we shall recount to you with knowledge and we surely were not absent", for God was present and always is.
In 2775 He says there isn't anything that is "ghaa-i-bat"/absent in the skies or the earth but in a clear book. meaning absent from the reader's knowledge, or mankind's knowledge. and in 3538 He says "Allah is knower of the ghayb of the skies and the earth.
In 7188 the prophet is told to say ... If I had knowledge of "ghayb" I would have multiplied the goods and harm would not t ouch me. There is knowledge that when reached, one could achieve such material goods, that's what man kind been busy at since millennia as witnessed by all the industries and technologies of today.
Now what would "to believe in ghayb" or "those who believe in ghayb" mean? I am not quite sure yet...
Peace.
Mohamed~ -
From http//www.sunnah.org/publication/encyclopedia/html/unseen.htm
"Some people cite the verses of the Holy Qur'an which they translate to mean that Allah commands the Prophet to tell the companions that he has no knowledge of the unseen. I was surprised at hearing this and decided to write to you for your view. The stand of the real Ahl al-Sunna with respect to Rasulullah's knowledge of the unseen will be appreciated. Also, what is the belief of Ahl al-Sunna regarding the awliya's knowledge of the unseen?
THE PROPHET'S KNOWLEDGE OF THE UNSEEN
Knowledge of the Unseen is one of Allah's prerogatives, exclusive to Him except insofar as He discloses it to His elect servants
"He discloses not His unseen (ghayb) to anyone, except only to such a Messenger as He is well-pleased with." (7226)
The hafiz Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani explained this verse thus
It follows from this verse that Prophets can see some of the Unseen, and so do the saints (wali, pl. awliya' that follow each particular Prophet also, as each takes from his Prophet and is gifted (yukram) with his knowledge. The difference between the two is that the Prophet looks at this knowledge through all kinds of revelation, while the saint does not look upon it except in dreams or through inspiration, and Allah knows best.
Ibn Hajar quotes al-Qurtubi's words confirming this
The truthful, righteous Muslim (al-muslim al-sadiq al-salih) is he whose state matches that of Prophets and thereby is bestowed (ukrima) some of the same kind of gifts they were given that is to behold the unseen (wa huwa al-ittila
It is incorrect and improper, therefore, to say that the Prophet did not know the Unseen except if such a statement is qualified, such as saying "He did not know that of the Unseen which only Allah knows." Otherwise it is untrue that the Prophet did not know the Unseen. How could such a claim be true of any truthful Prophet who brings news from His Lord, especially one who ascended above the seven heavens and the eight Paradises to His Lord's presence, one who told of the events that attended creation, one who saw the events after resurrection, and one to whom was revealed the inimitable Qur'an? And Allah said to him
And We granted you knowledge of what you knew not, and the bounty of Allah for you has been infinite. (4113)
This is of the tidings of the Unseen which we reveal to you. You did not know it before this, nor your people. (1149)
However, the Prophet did not like to boast and he always stressed that certain matters of the Unseen were Allah's exclusive domain, especially knowledge of the Last Hour, and "the five things" mentioned at the end of Sura Luqman (3134).
Disregarding the hadith which has been proven countless times to be of unreliable material, 1149 I just found out was misused because it's Allah talking to Noah in the Chapter Hood. 4113 just means the Quran and wisdom of the Quran according to the Arabic, so it's misused in this article here as well. However 7226 is saying knowledge of the unknown was given to Muhammad. I am totally confused, especially when Muhammad in the Quran says outright he does not know the unknown (future in this case because he talked about avoiding future harm in that particular verse). So, regarding knowledge of the unknown/future (I guess they mean the same thing in Arabic) who does Allah give that too? Allah says in the Quran he gives it to "messengers he picks" but Muhammad could not be one of them because Allah told him to say to his people he knows none of it. I also read the Arabic writings of all these verses and the ones in the article are distorted in favor of the person trying to prove that Muhammad knew the future. The link as you can see is 90% hadith which are 90% bull when you consider the basic facts surrounding them.
Anyways thoughts? Comments? They are appreciated.
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Things and facts which are or were, not known to people around, and hence were not cognizant about, and are now being revealed, so they become aware of it. This is per Lanes. This will then become part of educating people of which they were not really educated or cognizant about earlier. Here I dont believe it is asking to believe in an unseen God, and this word cannot be used to describe only an invisible object or unseen God either. It is basically the unkown facts, about anything, for the people around, who knew it not, or may not be able to see or percieve such, with their capabilities present at that moment and time, and are now being informed and educated about it, if so chosen by the one who knows it from before.
When it is written like Ghaieb, (and not Gheb) it means absent and not present, as opposed to the word written as above
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.003.gif
who accept/believe in the presence/existence without being in their sight;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.01.A.htmRespectfully, when we write Mutta'qeena, it becomes incorrect, as qeena is not the word being used here, but it is "Taqeena" and hence Mut'Taqeena, when it would mean "people who endeavor remaining cautious, heedful, and mindful and gaurd themselves against becoming like dead (Mut).. Basically similar concept.
The next Ayat is the one, where the word of the thread under discussion is used. So looking at it in continuity with the previous Ayat, people who are guarding themselves are being described here. Here these people who are trying to guard themselves are described as those who are accepting and believing in the Ghaib, utilising all their faculties , (of course not blindly). Ghaib here is what I made an attemt yesterday to explain as
" Things and facts which are or were, not known to people around, and hence were not cognizant about, and are now being revealed, so they become aware of it. This is per Lanes. This will then become part of educating people of which they were not really educated or cognizant about earlier. Here I dont believe it is asking to believe in an unseen God, and this word cannot be used to describe only an invisible object or unseen God either. It is basically the unkown facts, about anything, for the people around, who knew it not, or may not be able to see or percieve such, with their capabilities present at that moment and time, and are now being informed and educated about it, if so chosen by the one who knows it from before."I am only trying to explain the complete concept in these two Aya, and may Rab guide me and all of us who are making an attempt, to understand it correctly.
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Respectfully, when we write Mutta'qeena, it becomes incorrect, as qeena is not the word being used here, but it is "Taqeena" and hence Mut'Taqeena,
Please use some phonic dictionary, you will find the difference between both the two spellings for converting the Arabic word used in the Ayah. It reads as the Arabic word sounds.
Al ghaib is something that exists somewhere in time and space or beyond the horizons of our Universe and is not within our focus. Believing in Al Ghaib is to accept the existance of that fact, without that being in our focus. There are hundreds of things in my home, the Khaliq, creator of whom is neither in my eyes nor I know him, yet I believe, without he being in my sight and knowledge, about his existence. The conjunction Ayat mentioned need to be referred and read.
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" Things and facts which are or were, not known to people around, and hence were not cognizant about, and are now being revealed, so they become aware of it. This is per Lanes. This will then become part of educating people of which they were not really educated or cognizant about earlier. Here I dont believe it is asking to believe in an unseen God, and this word cannot be used to describe only an invisible object or unseen God either. It is basically the unkown facts, about anything, for the people around, who knew it not, or may not be able to see or percieve such, with their capabilities present at that moment and time, and are now being informed and educated about it, if so chosen by the one who knows it from before."
It is included in the translation since it is stated as such at other places of the Grand Qur'aan,
" who accept/believe in the presence/existence without being in their sight;"
"The Messenger unfolds that information which you earlier did not know."
"You were not present there on such and such occasion", these are the news of past We are narrating to you word by word and event by event. etc etc
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Please use some phonic dictionary, you will find the difference between both the two spellings for converting the Arabic word used in the Ayah. It reads as the Arabic word sounds.
Dear brother Mazhar, at no time in human history, intellectualy intact humans created sounds that had no meanings attached to them. Purposes of uttering sounds is to communicate with others. To exchange information. Would you be so kind to share the meanings of sound "mutta" with us. With lots of love and respect.
Badar
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Brother,
I have only used the english alphabet to produce the sound as the Arabic word of Quran is recited. You break the word and assign meanings to individual consonants.
any reciter, you will not listen mut,Taqeena, it is mut,ta,qeenahttp//www.quran.net/quran/tilawatSudais.asp?sNum=002a&sNameA=Al-Baqarah&sNameE=The%20Cow&Ayaat=286&Origin=Madinah
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Brother,
I have only used the english alphabet to produce the sound as the Arabic word of Quran is recited. You break the word and assign meanings to individual consonants.
any reciter, you will not listen mut,Taqeena, it is mut,ta,qeenahttp//www.quran.net/quran/tilawatSudais.asp?sNum=002a&sNameA=Al-Baqarah&sNameE=The%20Cow&Ayaat=286&Origin=Madinah
I fully agree with the logic to write certain things certain way. However it might be good if one is addressing a population who may have the full command of spoken language. But if one is addressing a wider range of population, we need to pay attention to the meanings conveyed by those phonics, as in the original meanings, and not how it is said, as otherwise, with time it might change its meaning and concept.
In a similar manner, we cannot write words just because English, or Americans, or Australians pronounce it differently. They can say it however they want to say it, but when it comes to express the meaning using those phonics in writing , it needs to convey the actual meaning behind the writing of phonics. Good Day will always be written as is and not the way it might be recited.
The purpose of my writing the response was, to pay attention to the meanings of the spoken words, as might have been meant by the speaker then, who subsequently wrote it in such a way to stay as close to the meaning that he was or is trying to imply, realising that the people may be uttering these words differntly, based on their phonic background.
Also, and I quote from above, " who accept/believe in the presence/existence without being in their sight;", cannot be used as a translation, but can be only considered as possibly one of the qualities of Mut Taqeen, but it is clearly not the meaning.
Please see that I am not bringing it up to win an argument, but just to point out humbly, that the reason for us to be so far from the message of God is our lack of actual understanding of the meanings of the words spoken by the Prophet in the form of Quran and preserved by the Companions, to the best of their capabilites at the time, to convey the same meanings as was meant to be. Unless we do that , we run the risk of pondering on the misunderstood meaning and in other words keep beating around a bush which never was meant to be.
Once we have all the words understood the way they were meant to be, we can do all the pondering. Understanding these words may have become slightly easier now for a team of common men, and not just for Ulema, because of the revolution in the information age. We just need a team of dedicated people to use the informaton technology and get to the closest meaning of each and every letter of the Quran, based on the understaning of those words by people around the Prophet, without making interpretation based on traditions or stories or even current usage of the similar words. Once this step is honestly done after removing meanings based on our preconceived notions, traditions and teachings by others, we will be able to get close to the message of God.
Once this is done, Gods promise will be fulfilled who tells us clearly that I have revealed this Book for you in an easy to understand tongue (not just the easy language, realising difference between tongue and language), so you can reflect upon it. The message as it stands now, is far from there, and hence this promise of God is not being fulfilled. Let us form a team of all inclusive ( scholars, commoners, linguist and people from any sect or religious background, who can work as pure and honest linguist) , and look at all the words just like a linguist would do it, without any pride in self beliefs, and then it would be easy even for a commoner to reflect. It will then be upto the commoner to accept it or leave it, as their is no compulsion in the path (Deen) you choose for youself. The result will be according to what you choose, but there is no compulsion. At this time, people cannot reflect on Gods words honestly, not because they dont want to do it, but it is because they are reflecting on the presumed meanings as real meanings may have been lost in the battle of traditions.
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Brother,
I am afraid the very premises on which you base your argument is quite sandy while Qur'aan is the only Book which has been called i.e. it has the permanence. And a Book that has permanence in time and space does not leave its words and terms to be translated and assigned meanings by people by their own perceptions.
I have nowhere read, though my study is too limited, that this term, Al-Mut'ta'qeena was in use in Arabic literature, though according to the Qur'aan this term had been used for the first time by one of the sons of Adam.
Grand Qur'aan has assigned meanings, narrated the attributes and manner of conduct of people whom He calls Mut'ta'qeena. It is an accepted principle, that in relation to a particular Book, Law, Constitution, Script; the meanings and perception attached to a word or term shall be taken as has been defined or assigned by the Book itself, notwithstanding what people perceive from that word and term in the ordinary course of life. And if a Book has laid down that the meanings and perception of a word or term shall not be construed otherwise, no other meanings can be assigned to it by anyone. If it has not been done by the Book, then the dictionary meanings of a particular word which shows the common perception taken by ordinary people shall be taken.Qur'aan has a built in dictionary, explaining and simplifying its words and terms, by the method of revolving Aa'ya'at. Qur'aan keeps its words and the reader revolving like the hard disk of the computer. And in this manner lets the reader perceive the point from all angles. Qur'aan says nothing can come in it from its front and back. Front and back is of something rounded. By revolving things, each constituent of it becomes segregated and distinct from the other. It is a common phenomenon which we even watch every day in our kitchens also. If we assign meanings at some place of our own choice, it will throw it away since it will not match with the same statement given in another angle at another place.
There is no contradiction in Qur'aan, first ayah to last ayah. And go through any translation you may deduct not in units but dozens,may be in hundreds, self contradicting statements of the translator.
Let the perception infolded in the Root of a word prevail, Insha Allah there will be no difficulty in running through the Qur'aan with minimum omissions. So far I have noted that each Root used by Qur'aan has built in facts relating both to matter and life. Though I have little knowledge of Arabic, but I feel its beauty and vastness, it is a marvelous language, as compared to it I admit my mother language is as if me is dumb.
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Thanks for the critique. I fully agree with you that this Message has a permanency to it and it cannot be left to subsequent generations to assign meanings to the words of the Qur'Aan. The technique of a revolving disc is well described by you and this method of understaning the Book with Tasreef, i.e from with in the Book, is now extensively used by many.
I also fully agree that word Al Mut,Taqeen is not a word to be found in the literature of classical Arabic, in which Qur'Aan is preserved. This is what has prompted many to ponder as to what this may be written and meant to be? Multiple explanations have been forwarded by many traditional translators, based on their concept. The word, however becomes clear when we look at this word, considering it as a compound word and consider it in relation to Taqwa. The meaning of Taqee (Taqeen is pleural)or Taqwa is well described in Arabic language, as ability or enabling to gaurd yourself against something presumably bad. Here when word Mut is added to it, it seem that this Book and Knowledge is meant to guard us against being like dead (Mut). The use of the other attached word in this compound word, i.e Mut, is used in many other places aso in the Qur'Aan and was rightly pointed out even by you in another thread recently. It just seem that these two words, that do exist in Arabic language of Qur'Aan separately also, have been joined together with the help of a teshdeed, a writing tecnnique, used in many other places as well.
Once we are capable of guarding ourselves with the help of this Book, we can get on the path of all good deeds and peity, and other qualities rightly pointed out by you. As you said it rightly, "there is no contradiction in Qur'aan, first ayah to last ayah.Let the perception infolded in the Root of a word prevail, Insha Allah there will be no difficulty in running through the Qur'aan with minimum omissions. So far I have noted that each Root used by Qur'aan has built in facts relating both to matter and life." (shortened for brevity)
Thus those people who understand the concept as to how to gaurd themselves against being like dead, develop all the qualities described by you above and as elaborated in other places in Qur'Aan and as pointed out by you as well.
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The word, however becomes clear when we look at this word, considering it as a compound word and consider it in relation to Taqwa. The meaning of Taqee (Taqeen is pleural)or Taqwa is well described in Arabic language, as ability or enabling to gaurd yourself against something presumably bad. Here when word Mut is added to it, it seem that this Book and Knowledge is meant to guard us against being like dead (Mut). The use of the other attached word in this compound word, i.e Mut, is used in many other places aso in the Qur'Aan and was rightly pointed out even by you in another thread recently. It just seem that these two words, that do exist in Arabic language of Qur'Aan separately also, have been joined together with the help of a teshdeed, a writing tecnnique, used in many other places as well.
Brother,
Give it a second thought. What you are suggesting is that this word is composed of two Roots. Perhaps there is no such thing in Arabic. "Taqee (Taqeen is plural)", I have not seen "Taqeen" in the Qur'aan unless you may have divided the word in 3355 "wat,ta, qeena" as "wat-Taqeena".
Grand Qur'aan is not for those who are physically or metaphorically "mut".
Root " ", on first appearance the statement may appear ordinary, in the style of talk of ordinary people. What I say is that every Root has infolded in it the realities of matter and life. The basic perception is to cut from the whole. For answering, responding to somebody one has to physically cut the data from the memory and first bring it into RAM/chest to communicate to others. And the data could have been stored only when he had listened. If he had not listened, there is no data from where he will cut and respond. You can't make the dead, physically and metaphorically both, listen. Qur'aan can't do anything for him, since it is only for living
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Dear Brother Mazhar, what has been suggested here is that the "so to called word" Lilmuttaqeena, in 22, is not one word. It is combination of two particles and two words. The particles LE & AL , when AL is written in combination with LE, Alif of AL is dropped. This combination of Le & AL is followed by word MUT a verb word derived from root Miim-Waw-Ta and it is combined to a following word in plural and in state, from root , . Hope this helps.
Point to understand is that languages combine words in writting as well speaking. A similar but not exactly the same example from english, would be word "irregular". This is a combination of "ir" and regular. One could write only one "r", provided English had a way to indicate doubling of consonant and hence indicating combination of original two words. Arabic, has such a sign called Teshdeed. Here Teshdeed on Ta suggest combination of two words and hence two roots plus with teshdeed becoming . Not one word with six or five roots.
Badar
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Dear brother, Quranic script is full of these. This is what I been talking about and calling help for. It is a huge task, to decode the message, but do able as the language appears well preserved in writing.
Just as a start, all so to called words here in this verse
Another, one
May be, I should go slow.
Badar
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What I mean, several different words, of different roots, can be spoken and written together. Unless one pays attention to this fact, correct meanings of these combination of words, can not be understood. As the meanings are based on identifying correct roots.
Badar