How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran
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Peace to everybody
Does anyone know why the Qur'an insists on corporal punishment for those who have sex outside marriage, but when it comes to murder, it says "forgiving" the murderer is better? It even says "don't show mercy to those who commit zina (having sex outside marriage), but it doesn't say "don't show mercy to murderers". Should we then conclude that, according to the Qur?an, having sex outside marriage is a bigger crime than murder?
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Salaam,
Everytime I view the Who's online board, I always see this thread being viewed by some guests.
This is crazy.
Regards,
YulianaThe word "sex" in the title is apparently too powerful for most people to ignore. I haven't read most of this discussion and it's one of those threads that interest me the least, but I guess I'm not a 'real' man. As you know, as a man you must be totally obsessed with sex or else there is something wrong with you..
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Peace to everybody
Does anyone know why the Qur'an insists on corporal punishment for those who have sex outside marriage, but when it comes to murder, it says "forgiving" the murderer is better? It even says "don't show mercy to those who commit zina (having sex outside marriage), but it doesn't say "don't show mercy to murderers". Should we then conclude that, according to the Qur?an, having sex outside marriage is a bigger crime than murder?
Yes, this is what one naturally wonders.
This sounds so typical of religions Sex is taboo, but murder and violence is fine. -
Yes, this is what one naturally wonders.
This sounds so typical of religions Sex is taboo, but murder and violence is fine.Thank you Zulf for the honest reply...
You surprised me, I expected the usual criticism; "the Qur'an doesn't say that, it actually says so and so", followed by endless debates about Arabic words and grammar etc.. in a desperate and frankly pathetic attempt to "correct" the Qur'an...
So I'm not the first person who has noticed this moral inconsistency? What is your opinion, why do you think the Qur'an wants us to forgive murderers, but to punish and be harsh to those having sex outside marriage? Also, the hand of a thief must be cut, but not the hand of a murderer? Given these two choices, I would much rather prefer to cut a murderer's hand rather than a thief's hand. Not that I support such barbaric punishments...
Peace
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talking about insist, people are so insistent in reading the first few ayas of sura 24 An-Nur ans so neglectful of readinng the following ayas that they still think that the aim of tho few first ayas is to punish sex,whereas if they read further and took interest the aimwould be clear that it is not about punishing sex but about preventing slandering and defaming of people, particularly women using sex as ameans to do it.
Nobody is told to seek out people who engage in ilicit sex, but told in no uncertain terms not to do it. Please the Qur'an is clear, do insist on reading all those ayas from 1 to 25 and see clearly what the aim of Qur'an is.
Salaam
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Thank you Zulf for the honest reply...
You surprised me, I expected the usual criticism; "the Qur'an doesn't say that, it actually says so and so", followed by endless debates about Arabic words and grammar etc.. in a desperate and frankly pathetic attempt to "correct" the Qur'an...
Hi,
RED This means that your understanbding of the quran is the correct one and everybody who differs from your understanding is trying to correct the quran.
So I'm not the first person who has noticed this moral inconsistency?
No you are not the first one, everybody can read the quran through the eyes of Bukhary & Co and point out a zillion immoralities, inconstenties, nonsense, etc.
Go to random anti quran site/forum and you will see that even people who can not even read a single character can list for you hunderds of immoralities, inconstenties, nonsense, etc. -
peace,
Should we then conclude that, according to the Qur?an, having sex outside marriage is a bigger crime than murder?
This article would suggest the above thinking is wrong
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-crime-punishment-expiation.htmlThe greatest punishment for a crime is of course execution. No execution punishment exists for sex outside marriage.
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Hi,
RED This means that your understanbding of the quran is the correct one and everybody who differs from your understanding is trying to correct the quran.
The Qur'an was best understood by those closest to the prophet because they were the receivers of those messages during 23 years. And those messages were directly related to their own lives and their own problems. It has very little to do with our own problems and our lives. We live in an entirely different age, culture and environment.
If after 1400 years we still don't know the "true message" of the Qur'an, then why did God send the book? How can we follow that which is so unclear and subject to endless interpretations?
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peace,
This article would suggest the above thinking is wrong
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-crime-punishment-expiation.htmlThe greatest punishment for a crime is of course execution. No execution punishment exists for sex outside marriage.
Peace Wakas,
True, but according to the Qur'an it's also better if we "forgive" the murderer. So why isn't it also better to forgive thieves and "fornicaters"? Are sex outside marriage and theft unforgivable, but murder is not as big a crime, and thus, forgivable?
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The Qur'an was best understood by those closest to the prophet because they were the receivers of those messages during 23 years. And those messages were directly related to their own lives and their own problems.
Those messages still solve many problems. You will know it once you actually start to apply them in your life.
It has very little to do with our own problems and our lives. We live in an entirely different age, culture and environment.
Nope, human sacrifice globally is still common. Truth is still frowned upon. Blasphemers are still punished through threats and death. People still love obeying some human master instead of hearing themselves and spending time in critical thinking.
If after 1400 years we still don't know the "true message" of the Qur'an, then why did God send the book? How can we follow that which is so unclear and subject to endless interpretations?
The true message is understood only by those who actually listen to Quran. The book is not unclear. Its just the human corruption which made it unclear. How many truly uphold this verse
6112 - We have permitted the enemies of every prophet?human and jinn devils?to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.It isn't God, but us responsible for making the book unclear by falling under the spell of mullahs who actually don't seem to believe in Quran, but just want power.
True, but according to the Qur'an it's also better if we "forgive" the murderer. So why isn't it also better to forgive thieves and "fornicaters"? Are sex outside marriage and theft unforgivable, but murder is not as big a crime, and thus, forgivable?
Not all murders are forgiven. You need to read the verses about thief's hand cutting again. The law does include forgiving those who repent. The punishment for sex outside marriage isn't easy. You need to show witnesses. But isn't it like normally people do it in closed room? I live in US and I know why Allah frowns upon sex outside marriage. People can debate as much as they want about how it is not bad, but it doesnt change the following facts
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It does contribute to stds. Nightmare in the link http//www.nursingschools.net/blog/2010/05/10-truly-shocking-stats-on-stds-and-college-students/ No innocent human deserves to be its victim.
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It does create babies out of wedlock who can end up with lifelong psychological problems and even suffer from proper care http//hbse.pbworks.com/w/page/11921493/Behavior%20problems%20among%20illegitimate%20children I have plenty of friends who can't differentiate between good and bad which seems to be not common among those who have both mom and dad at home.
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It does create inequality. Family of the guy can deny the right of his pregnant girlfriend with the excuse that she is of bad character. Similarly, if the guy is proved to be the father he has to give child support which isn't always a piece of cake.
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It does minimize a woman's chance to continue a lifelong marriage.
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For both stds and single mom, its the citizens who pay through tax.
I can go on and on about it. I'll stop there. The truth is that that specific thing called sex outside marriage can have impact on a huge number of people which isn't same when it comes to murder done to defend one's life. We sometimes when talk about feminism and terrorism, we come to conclusion that feminism has done more damage to the society than terrorism, for through its promotion of promiscuity, it allows slow cruel death (passes from parent to child who then passes it onto his partners and children creating a vicious cycle) whereas terrorists kill a human in one go.
peace
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peace,
You have made some claims about Quran, so before I answer, please provide the Quran evidence for your claims. I have even highlighted your claims in different colours and bold below to make it easier for you.
Peace to everybody
Does anyone know why the Qur'an insists on corporal punishment for those who have sex outside marriage, but when it comes to murder, it says "forgiving" the murderer is better? It even says "don't show mercy to those who commit zina (having sex outside marriage), but it doesn't say "don't show mercy to murderers". Should we then conclude that, according to the Qur?an, having sex outside marriage is a bigger crime than murder?
Peace Wakas,
True, but according to the Qur'an it's also better if we "forgive" the murderer. So why isn't it also better to forgive thieves and "fornicaters"? Are sex outside marriage and theft unforgivable, but murder is not as big a crime, and thus, forgivable?
Also, I should point out, in case it's not painfully obvious, that what you have cited so far (in terms of evidence/reasoning) has come nowhere near to surpassing/trumping the fact that execution (the greatest punishment possible) is not given for sex outside marriage or theft, thus only a person with faulty reasoning would claim non-execution-worthy crimes are a bigger crime than an execution-worthy crime. Thus, if I were to rephrase your questioning in a more sound way, I'd ask why are there differences in the punishment approach of these crimes? That is a more sound/legit question/reasoning.
Of course, I'd only be interested in answering such a question if the questioner has actually thought about it, and provides the possibilities they have come up with so far.
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The Qur'an was best understood by those closest to the prophet because they were the receivers of those messages during 23 years. And those messages were directly related to their own lives and their own problems. It has very little to do with our own problems and our lives. We live in an entirely different age, culture and environment.
Hi,
Do you release that actually your whole reasoning above is based on Bukhary & Co? They were no more than collectors of hearsay at best, and probably it is not even hearsay but much worse.
If after 1400 years we still don't know the "true message" of the Qur'an, then why did God send the book? How can we follow that which is so unclear and subject to endless interpretations?
The quran is like any other object here in this world. What you do with it reflects your personality/identity/character/etc.
If I give you a apple you can kill with it or you can do something useful with it.
You will not be judged for your understanding of the quran but for your deeds.
So if you chop of someones hands off because you think that's what the quran says then be aware that there is no hiding from Allah behind the quran the day you will face your deeds. -
So if you chop of someones hands off because you think that's what the quran says then be aware that there is no hiding from Allah behind the quran the day you will face your deeds.
if you cut somebodys hands after proving him guilty , as per quran but its contradict with quran on plantey of reasons
1 if he did it again law of punishment not apply(as we know hands are already being cut)
2 it will end his earnings he left off with no option to feed himself apart from stealing again.
3 and i m human not God if somebody steal my thingie i will never ever wanted him to get his hands cut that what my reason and logic ,think for a while how come a supreme being commanding u this illogical and cruel thing..
4 eye for an eye life for life its something fair now ( but with respect this law stealing must replace with stealing or sources or properties ) not with F**** hands. if some body cut somebodys hands then i can understand this law apply..
5 is it not a valid point for anybody to think about it and go through all the points and make himself think this book is false cruel and illlogical so he dnt want to practise a religion that presents these things.if he is not muslim law of muslims not applied on him. probably he get atghiest
6 pakistan and lot of other islamic countires the law of punishment is not to cutt off their hands are they not following what they expect to follow, if its true then they are hypocrates who are not following the law of God where it is clearly written in law article 1973 that law must be a islamic law.
7 its a confusion now we need to solve this issue ,, refer to quran again the boos of all books and law.
and eventually u will find the story of joseph brother what the law of God applied there .
8 obviously quran is complete when it talks it clear its verses but one need to struggle for it.. -
if you cut somebodys hands after proving him guilty , as per quran but its contradict with quran on plantey of reasons
1 if he did it again law of punishment not apply(as we know hands are already being cut)
2 it will end his earnings he left off with no option to feed himself apart from stealing again.
3 and i m human not God if somebody steal my thingie i will never ever wanted him to get his hands cut that what my reason and logic ,think for a while how come a supreme being commanding u this illogical and cruel thing..
4 eye for an eye life for life its something fair now ( but with respect this law stealing must replace with stealing or sources or properties ) not with F**** hands. if some body cut somebodys hands then i can understand this law apply..
5 is it not a valid point for anybody to think about it and go through all the points and make himself think this book is false cruel and illlogical so he dnt want to practise a religion that presents these things.if he is not muslim law of muslims not applied on him. probably he get atghiest
6 pakistan and lot of other islamic countires the law of punishment is not to cutt off their hands are they not following what they expect to follow, if its true then they are hypocrates who are not following the law of God where it is clearly written in law article 1973 that law must be a islamic law.
7 its a confusion now we need to solve this issue ,, refer to quran again the boos of all books and law.
and eventually u will find the story of joseph brother what the law of God applied there .
8 obviously quran is complete when it talks it clear its verses but one need to struggle for it..Yeah, this pretty much debunks the traditional interpretation. I don't understand how people don't see it.
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Yeah, this pretty much debunks the traditional interpretation. I don't understand how people don't see it.
our humble responsibilty is to deleiver the message , and make confusions clear.
its up to them how they understand it. -
Those messages still solve many problems. You will know it once you actually start to apply them in your life.
You can only get inspiration from verses in the Qur'an, especially universally accepted principles and morals. Most of the Qur'an, however, can't be applied today and was not meant to be applied literally. They were revealed in a specific historical context, I wonder how many of you know Fazlur Rahman..
Do you know of any Muslim who has ever (literally) applied the following verse;
"And those who pronounce thihar from their wives and then go back on what they said - then the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. That is what you are admonished thereby; and Allah is Acquainted with what you do."
Has anyone here ever freed a slave by the way, which is advised in various verses in the Qur'an?
ISIS does apply certain verses literally (while ignoring and violating many others); they take the wives of the "Kuffar" enemy and turn them into sex slaves as is allowed in the Qur'an. There is nothing in the Qur'an that forbids this because that was the reality back then. It has nothing to do with God wanting or promoting slavery. On the contrary, God also "advises" people to free their slaves in various verses.
There are numerous other verses relating to various issues that today no single Muslim or Muslim state ever applies anywhere in the Muslim world... Not even fundamentalist Muslim theocracies. Because they too know they have nothing to do with today's world. If I have more time I can give more examples of even 'stranger' Qur'an verses that are never applied anymore because they are entirely historical.
People can debate as much as they want about how it is not bad, but it doesnt change the following facts
well, I'm not one of those who support sex outside marriage, just used it as an example..
I would like to add one more thing that I forgot.. "serving God" is not about following the Qur'an literally; we shouldn't worship the Qur'an. God is far greater than some words, or a book like the Qur'an. Life is far too complex to manage by following some fixed written rules or "laws" in the Qur'an, or any other (religious) book.. God has given us far more freedom and enormous abilities than we assume... and by sincerely using our intellect and conscience, we can also always do the morally right thing in different circumstances. Morality and sincerity is most important, not following a few fixed rules..
Peace peace
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Peace Mister Recluse,
Most of the Qur'an, however, can't be applied today and was not meant to be applied literally.
If you are referring to the laws/commandments of the Quran, then I think you are wrong. In my view, most of the laws/commandments of the Quran can be applied today. And in my view, most of the laws/commandments of the Quran are timeless. If you think that most of the laws/commandments of the Quran can't be applied today, then I recommend collecting all the verses in the Quran with laws/commandments. After you have done that, if you can prove that more than half of all verses with laws/commandments can't be applied today, then your claim is true. But if you can't prove such a thing, then your claim is false. Without evidence, a claim is baseless. There are many baseless claims about the Quran on the internet these days. And some of those claims are worse than useless. You seem like a smart man. And I think you have the potential to make valuable contributions to the Quranic community. But it seems that your knowledge of the Quran is little. I recommend reading/studying all of the verses in the Quran before you make claims about what most of the Quran states or doesn't state.
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You can only get inspiration from verses in the Qur'an, especially universally accepted principles and morals. Most of the Qur'an, however, can't be applied today and was not meant to be applied literally. They were revealed in a specific historical context, I wonder how many of you know Fazlur Rahman..
Do you know of any Muslim who has ever (literally) applied the following verse;
"And those who pronounce thihar from their wives and then go back on what they said - then the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. That is what you are admonished thereby; and Allah is Acquainted with what you do."
Has anyone here ever freed a slave by the way, which is advised in various verses in the Qur'an?
i can still see lot of slavery in modern world from different kinds, dnt want to go in detail,one need to analyse what going on now a days, just one simple example of daily life,
a person is in debt of bank/system/law due to the lackness of money which he need for feeding his hungry kids or fear of some medical illness to him or any family member or due to whatever reason, now he is bound to system he must pay instalments otherwise he will face consequences, infact he is a slave infront of bank,
helping him sorting out his problems is a kind of getting him free from burden of slavery...as far the laws of book concern the sense and logic claims if quran is a word of God it must be standing firm in all ages even it talks about 7th century culture but the system of quran is very logical that not only fit with 7th century but today and tomorrow and ever
and one more thing from ur knowledge real slaves also exist in some remote areas of africa and interestingly modern contries like pakkistan its still a tradition in northern areas to sale the daughters with money thats what they call marriage . infact girls are slaves for their parents whoever pay high price he will get the girl,,
so pay the price of these girls and let them live their lives ,if u want to free a slaveand guys pointing out mistakes are alwasy very easy but we always forget when we point a finger towards somebody indirectly three fingers are going against us ... peace
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, if you can prove that more than half of all verses with laws/commandments can't be applied today, then your claim is true.
half oh common not even a single law , this is not a book of any poet , this is the words of my lord , challenging Allah in any mode is bad for health and wealth,lol
firoon already get his lesson ,,lol when he try to make fun of my lord,,,he was very arrogant claiming to haman,,, oh haman give me a ladder so that i can see the God of moses..laughing infront of his public making fun of my rab,,
after a while balance of power changed now see that bastard in another situation totally helpless in the water claiming again i beleive in the God of moses ,,, (where ur haman now) where is ur ladder
replied from my lord,,
toooooooooo late
today we will preserve your body for the future generations and we will make u a sign of people who will come after u.
where is ur power money manpower is there is any god with God,
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Peace Mister Recluse,
If you are referring to the laws/commandments of the Quran, then I think you are wrong. In my view, most of the laws/commandments of the Quran can be applied today. And in my view, most of the laws/commandments of the Quran are timeless. If you think that most of the laws/commandments of the Quran can't be applied today, then I recommend collecting all the verses in the Quran with laws/commandments. After you have done that, if you can prove that more than half of all verses with laws/commandments can't be applied today, then your claim is true. But if you can't prove such a thing, then your claim is false. Without evidence, a claim is baseless. There are many baseless claims about the Quran on the internet these days. And some of those claims are worse than useless. You seem like a smart man. And I think you have the potential to make valuable contributions to the Quranic community. But it seems that your knowledge of the Quran is little. I recommend reading/studying all of the verses in the Quran before you make claims about what most of the Quran states or doesn't state.
The Qur'an is not a book of law. My claims are nothing new, they are supported by many academics, including many Muslim academics and scholars of Islam. Fazlur Rahman is only one of them, I'm baffled that nobody here seems to know...
