How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran
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In relationship to sex outside nikah or marriage as you call it or commited couples as I call it.
Are you talking about the issue of lowering the gaze and guarding the private parts?
If not can you quote the verse? -
I think ultimatily When it comes down to it there are two Aspects to having sex with a Partner. (Obviously)
Intention Number 1 Two Un-married people who have sex....BUT have the INTENTION to Eventually Get married. Their intention is to get togeather, remain humble, unified, and Grow Spiriutally,Mentally, and Physically. They Plan on being together to the best of their ability.
OR.
Intention Number 2 Two Unmarried people who have sex....and INTENTIONALLY KNOW that they are NOT going to stay togeather in a Relationship. They have NO PLAN what so-ever on getting married nor do they care about createing a Union. They are Merely Just Chemically Attracted to eachother and wish to saticfy their sexual desires for this moments Pleasure. A Self-fish egotistic act, not careing about the sanctaty of marriage or sex.
Now Both are "Bad". But at least ONE is Bad only with the intention of later trying to Fix it. I See Number 2 being Fornication. Number 1 is Fornication by Deffinition However its with the Intention of Nullifying the Evil act, Repenting, and Intention to establish a TRUE Bond.
I say, if you are going to do NUMBER 2....then that is Wrong. and will Lead to much Distruction of not only a family/individual, but also Society.
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Peace nimnimak_11 ,
I began to read your article and after getting so far I stopped. There are too many inconsistencies in what you have written. I will not go over them all. I'll just make a few comments.
First, I'm assuming you are not married (forgive my assumption if I am wrong) and have no children.
If you are not, then let me tell you I've seen first hand what sex out of wedlock can do to you.
Have you ever heard of a child being raised by a single parent?
Children growing up in broken homes?
Sexually transmitted diseases?
Children raising children?Over that past (I'm just going to making up a number only because of technology and all) like 70 years they've just introduced barrier contraceptives, so that can't be an argument for not getting pregnant or contracting sexually transmitted diseases. Because contraceptives are a new thing just recently made within the 20th century. And I'm not talking about coitus interruptus. That is a fail method. It's methods is flawed. There is no full protection from pregnancy and sure enough not diseases.
The Quran is for all times, so lets look at it just as that. It supports marriage and if you can not afford to marry you are told to practice restraint. It tell you to protect your private parts and that they are for your spouse alone. There is a specific part within that same verse that speaks of those who are under you can see you in a nude condition A.k.A your privates. I'm a mom, so my kids have caught an eyeful in their lifetime. I'm more careful now that they are getting older just because I think that is proper.
Your doctor has your medical approval to have limited access to certain parts of your body for health/medical reasons.
Outside of that, I do not see why anyone else who is not your spouse should have the pleasure of seeing you in your birthday suit.Because of such loose ways of think/ understanding it can create a cancer with in the society. Things that trickle down to others.
I know plenty of women who are struggling to raise children on their own because of after the fun was gone, the men moved on to something that they can get continuous uninterrupted fun out of. Not wasting their time trying to be a father and all. Who would want that? That's too much like right! And let's not talk about diseases! Why is it that one of the most deadliest diseases ( eventhough I think this diseases was manufactured) can be transmitted by sex. Wouldn't you be more safer to stick to your spouse.You have a husband and a wife two people who are binded their relationship to you, by a contractual agreement. And who has exchanged their dowry and signed it in front of witnesses. When you draw up a contract you should have a witnesses or else you can say and do what you want and not keep your word in your secret affairs. I believe the marriage license of today will suffice as a contact although there should be a literal declaration specifically designed for meeting each others requirements, hopes and expectations. Also, without a contract (license) how else would people be able to keep track of who is suppose to be married to who.
Maybe you started this article to get a rise out of folks or maybe you want support to do what you want. but in the broad scheme of things you are advocating more harm than good. If you have never been married and you never sat down in a room full of men and women with diseases and children out of wedlock who are struggling with either a death sentence or something that they can never get rid of (including kids) and wish they would have listen to what they were told. I think your argument is moot and here is where I bail out. I'm tired of seeing this kind of garbage blasted all over this website. Is this free-minds or lose your mind??? It's a shame how things get twisted and people will understand things by their own desires and pick the worse of understanding. Yes, this is a forum to disgust things. But come on!!! Really! Why is it that topics like these get the most hits with no outcome? (It's like reading a tabloid sometimes or watching Jerry Springer. Or, maybe more like Maury Povich. ARE YOU THE FATHER??? ??? -[ That's what a lot of people are asking now adays in this backwards society with all their free lovin'! ) Throughout the Quran it advocates marriage. Also, consummation of the marriage. There is no consummating if you have been doing it all along. Which Quran are you reading??? Cause I'm confused. Sorry for the harsh tone, then again, no, I'm not sorry! I'm going to say it straight and pull no punches. I wish to see the sanctity of marriage and family preserved. I came from a broken home. I grew up in a area over run by those like me all because of our parents selfishness going after their own personal desires and not looking at the aftermath of the situation. Who will it impact the most? The children and society as a whole. This is a shameful attempt in trying to justify or get someone else to sign-off and agree on such a clear argument. While you worry about who you can have sex with, chaos is breaking out worldwide. People are being oppressed, suppressed and depressed all over. Family is to the winds. Values and moral are null and void and the world is becoming colder and colder. Kids are wandering the streets with nowhere to go and no one to look after them. What you suggest, through your understanding, opens the doors for lewdness openly and secretly. The total collapse of the human family. The family that I and others like me did not have the privilege to have. Where is the commitment? To hold these views you can say, well if you are committed to that one person then there should be no harm. I say, what are you trying to hide to keep it a secret or would you like to keep the field open for more action if you are in fact involve in this type of relationship. What society will this way of living work right in other than the corrupt one that is presently the dominating force. Again I ask, are you married? If not, take a broad look at society and then reflect on your understanding. Or maybe you started this thread just to get people riled up. Who knows? I spoke my peace.
peace
Shirley
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Peace nimnimak_11 ,
I began to read your article and after getting so far I stopped. There are too many inconsistencies in what you have written. I will not go over them all. I'll just make a few comments.
First, I'm assuming you are not married (forgive my assumption if I am wrong) and have no children.
If you are not, then let me tell you I've seen first hand what sex out of wedlock can do to you.
Have you ever heard of a child being raised by a single parent?
Children growing up in broken homes?
Sexually transmitted diseases?
Children raising children?Over that past (I'm just going to making up a number only because of technology and all) like 70 years they've just introduced barrier contraceptives, so that can't be an argument for not getting pregnant or contracting sexually transmitted diseases. Because contraceptives are a new thing just recently made within the 20th century. And I'm not talking about coitus interruptus. That is a fail method. It's methods is flawed. There is no full protection from pregnancy and sure enough not diseases.
The Quran is for all times, so lets look at it just as that. It supports marriage and if you can not afford to marry you are told to practice restraint. It tell you to protect your private parts and that they are for your spouse alone. There is a specific part within that same verse that speaks of those who are under you can see you in a nude condition A.k.A your privates. I'm a mom, so my kids have caught an eyeful in their lifetime. I'm more careful now that they are getting older just because I think that is proper.
Your doctor has your medical approval to have limited access to certain parts of your body for health/medical reasons.
Outside of that, I do not see why anyone else who is not your spouse should have the pleasure of seeing you in your birthday suit.Because of such loose ways of think/ understanding it can create a cancer with in the society. Things that trickle down to others.
I know plenty of women who are struggling to raise children on their own because of after the fun was gone, the men moved on to something that they can get continuous uninterrupted fun out of. Not wasting their time trying to be a father and all. Who would want that? That's too much like right! And let's not talk about diseases! Why is it that one of the most deadliest diseases ( eventhough I think this diseases was manufactured) can be transmitted by sex. Wouldn't you be more safer to stick to your spouse.You have a husband and a wife two people who are binded their relationship to you, by a contractual agreement. And who has exchanged their dowry and signed it in front of witnesses. When you draw up a contract you should have a witnesses or else you can say and do what you want and not keep your word in your secret affairs. I believe the marriage license of today will suffice as a contact although there should be a literal declaration specifically designed for meeting each others requirements, hopes and expectations. Also, without a contract (license) how else would people be able to keep track of who is suppose to be married to who.
Maybe you started this article to get a rise out of folks or maybe you want support to do what you want. but in the broad scheme of things you are advocating more harm than good. If you have never been married and you never sat down in a room full of men and women with diseases and children out of wedlock who are struggling with either a death sentence or something that they can never get rid of (including kids) and wish they would have listen to what they were told. I think your argument is moot and here is where I bail out. I'm tired of seeing this kind of garbage blasted all over this website. Is this free-minds or lose your mind??? It's a shame how things get twisted and people will understand things by their own desires and pick the worse of understanding. Yes, this is a forum to disgust things. But come on!!! Really! Why is it that topics like these get the most hits with no outcome? (It's like reading a tabloid sometimes or watching Jerry Springer. Or, maybe more like Maury Povich. ARE YOU THE FATHER??? ??? -[ That's what a lot of people are asking now adays in this backwards society with all their free lovin'! ) Throughout the Quran it advocates marriage. Also, consummation of the marriage. There is no consummating if you have been doing it all along. Which Quran are you reading??? Cause I'm confused. Sorry for the harsh tone, then again, no, I'm not sorry! I'm going to say it straight and pull no punches. I wish to see the sanctity of marriage and family preserved. I came from a broken home. I grew up in a area over run by those like me all because of our parents selfishness going after their own personal desires and not looking at the aftermath of the situation. Who will it impact the most? The children and society as a whole. This is a shameful attempt in trying to justify or get someone else to sign-off and agree on such a clear argument. While you worry about who you can have sex with, chaos is breaking out worldwide. People are being oppressed, suppressed and depressed all over. Family is to the winds. Values and moral are null and void and the world is becoming colder and colder. Kids are wandering the streets with nowhere to go and no one to look after them. What you suggest, through your understanding, opens the doors for lewdness openly and secretly. The total collapse of the human family. The family that I and others like me did not have the privilege to have. Where is the commitment? To hold these views you can say, well if you are committed to that one person then there should be no harm. I say, what are you trying to hide to keep it a secret or would you like to keep the field open for more action if you are in fact involve in this type of relationship. What society will this way of living work right in other than the corrupt one that is presently the dominating force. Again I ask, are you married? If not, take a broad look at society and then reflect on your understanding. Or maybe you started this thread just to get people riled up. Who knows? I spoke my peace.
peace
Shirley
;D bravo
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I was thinking the same thing, Shirley (if I understood you correctly). No matter how responsible one person might be with sex outside marriage, the tolerance of it can affect the whole society as it would mean that others can have sex outside marriage and many will see the consequences.
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Peace,
Peace Omeiza,
This is a free discussion so it is better to back yourself with either a sound reason or a clear qu'ran - no sentiments.
I would expect to see this kind of comment. Why? Because this what I have seen in the past and it is what I've come to expect from some of the posters on this forum. This topic has been covered before. So has homosexuality, bisexuality and so on. These issues have been addressed, readdressed, prepackages signed sealed and delivered on this forum in the past. But for those who have not had their desires meet yet, it's not enough until you finally say what they want to hear. Rubbish!!! If you can not look at what the Quran says and look around you to see why it say what it does, then I don't know what to tell you. This topic has been covered. It's a forum, remember? Q&A! It is simply amazing to me how many times this issue can be brought up and people look at it as if they've never seen or hears of it on this forum. there is a search engine on this forum to quickly access it. So you can see what people have said in the past all the way up tpo now. So know that this topic has been covered. Why waste your time providing proof for what people will ignore. Why not just cut to the chase and express your understanding and look at the broad scheme of things and not through a uretha sized view of things ( which a lot of the times have your desires attached to them) to get your answers. I've been a member of this forum for a very long time. I've read more than I've ever posted and this is one of the reasons why. Because some people have their minds made up no matter what and to debate with them is exhausting and ends with, "Unto you your way and unto me mine!" So, like I said, I will state what is clear to me because of the my logic. The rational thinking that you have to think things through, to reflect.The thing that Allah tells you to do. Why is that so hard. Sometimes the questions that are posted here are the ones most obvious and the ones that need to be dealt with are over look. I guess their just not that exciting like this one is to some. I think the verses that talk about marriage are clear. This is a clear subject to me. Allah tells us to marry. What more do you need? Or, am I asking questions to hearts that are unfulfilled? Why not marry? Shouldn't that be offensive to someone if no one want to marry you but use you for self gratification? It would have to be a blow to the self esteem. I see the protection that Allah wants us to have. He wants right to be done to us by us or else we will fail by our own hands. Suffer the consequenses as we see now by those who think they know best. It is totally reckless to suggest some of the immoral crap that I have read here on this forum. And what's even worse is they go out on a limb to try and prove what they are saying (with much twisting or verses) to get their point across, as if we are all blind and can not see the obviousness in their absurdities that they suggest. Tell me how what this topic is implying will work in a just society? Where is the protection in what it has to offer. How can a women prove that the man that she says is the father of her child when all he has to say is, "I don't know what you are talking about. It isn't mine!" Or how can you stop the flood of sexually transmitted diseases by the sexual acts. I need not spend all night typing down verses. If you have read the Quran from cover to cover countless times, you are bound to get the memo. If you reflect on the current society and worldly situations that we live in which has all the problems that extend from this wayward sex alone. Then you got the memo. But if you wish to have your own desires fulfilled and you try to use the Quran to find your means to your end, you forgot to read the fine print.
And, yes, i know this is a forum, but sometimes these topics take it too far. What is suggested by the title is a definate ways to break down society as we already see and create instability with in a child for family life.
How do you bridge families together? Through marriage. Within a family unit that embrasses those who are married to their kin, they become kin as well. Where is the bridge that units them if there is no marriage? No in-laws? Say it ain't so. Marriage united people and for the sake of those who are married it can create healing for possible foes of opposite sides. I'm just saying. Those are my sentiments based on the simple fundementals of my understanding of the Quran on marriage.Peace
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I believe sex before marriage is fine. If you get pregnant you should get an abortion.
I think people shouldn't sleep around. If they decide to have sex they should be in a committed relationship. So that even if a legal contract of marriage isn't there at least they are committed to each other and will stay together to raise their kids.
Now this argument has been raised that it's OK to have sex after marriage because then you can properly take care of the kids. That view is completely flawed.
Marriage does not guarantee that the two parents will stay together. It doesn't guarantee good parenting for the child. Marriage isn't even a sure-fire way to determine who the father of the child is.There are a lot of people who are married who shouldn't have kids but they do.
People who cannot afford to have children shouldn't have children, married or not.
But you can't stop people from having sex. You can't stop condoms from breaking. You can't stop men from raping women.
Abortions are the way to go.
What matters is that the two people are committed to each other and they know what they are doing. If you are OK with having kids, then go ahead as often as you like. If not, and you think abortion is an evil word, then you should kindly refrain from having sex.
I discourage my friends from sleeping around but it doesn't bother me too much. 99 percent of the time their condoms and pills work. When they don't I think the odd abortion is fine.
Peace.
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I believe sex before marriage is fine. If you get pregnant you should get an abortion.
I think people shouldn't sleep around. If they decide to have sex they should be in a committed relationship. So that even if a legal contract of marriage isn't there at least they are committed to each other and will stay together to raise their kids.
Now this argument has been raised that it's OK to have sex after marriage because then you can properly take care of the kids. That view is completely flawed.
Marriage does not guarantee that the two parents will stay together. It doesn't guarantee good parenting for the child. Marriage isn't even a sure-fire way to determine who the father of the child is.There are a lot of people who are married who shouldn't have kids but they do.
People who cannot afford to have children shouldn't have children, married or not.
But you can't stop people from having sex. You can't stop condoms from breaking. You can't stop men from raping women.
Abortions are the way to go.
What matters is that the two people are committed to each other and they know what they are doing. If you are OK with having kids, then go ahead as often as you like. If not, and you think abortion is an evil word, then you should kindly refrain from having sex.
I discourage my friends from sleeping around but it doesn't bother me too much. 99 percent of the time their condoms and pills work. When they don't I think the odd abortion is fine.
Peace.
What do you mean by commited?
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People who cannot afford to have children shouldn't have children, married or not.
"You shall not kill your children due to fear of poverty. We provide for them, as well as for you. Killing them is a gross offense"(1731)
"You shall not kill any (Nafs) person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice."(1733)
whether you believe Abortion is Okay since an Embryo Is or is Not consitered a (Naf) is Irrelevent because It clearily says Poverty being the Main Driven Force behind the killing. Killing an Embryo is the same thing as killing a child in that One will infact take the place of the eventual other.
If you look at the strong launguage presented it says "Life is Sacred". So, an Embryo is Still a Living Organism. It Has the Potential to Live and Die, It can Feed, and Grow, and According Biology it is Composed of many cells therefore an Embryo is a Living Organism.
Key Points 1) Do not Kill your children For Fear of Poverty.... (killing an Embryo is the same thing especially if you are doing to because of Fear of Poverty)
2) Life is Sacred... So... What are Living Things?? Living Organisms are Sacred then? Cells? Trees? Ants? All of Creation?I think a valid Reason must be givin in order to sacrifice/kill someone of something. Doing it for fear of Poverty is not Correct.
DSame as marriage but with or without the legal contract.
Now this is just getting Rediculous. If it is the same as marriage, then why wouldnt one simply just want to get married and get a legal contract?
Is it because he would like to be stubborn? and just INTENTIONALLY look for ways to rebell?
Thats all it is .... Rebellion. Stubbornness. Looking for a way to make things fit your own desires...Humm.... Who do you think carries these same attributes? ( >D)
(im not calling you that, Im just saying a person in general who does that fits those attributes)
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Peace,
"You shall not kill your children due to fear of poverty. We provide for them, as well as for you. Killing them is a gross offense"(1731)
"You shall not kill any (Nafs) person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice??."(1733)
whether you believe Abortion is Okay since an Embryo Is or is Not consitered a (Naf) is Irrelevent because It clearily says Poverty being the Main Driven Force behind the killing. Killing an Embryo is the same thing as killing a child in that One will infact take the place of the eventual other.
The word used in 1731 is "awlad", meaning "(born) children". Literally, it means "those who are born". "Child", in the English language, also refers to "a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl" (see http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/child). Hence, that verse is not talking about abortion, but infanticide and the killing of children.
If you look at the strong launguage presented it says "Life is Sacred". So, an Embryo is Still a Living Organism. It Has the Potential to Live and Die, It can Feed, and Grow, and According Biology it is Composed of many cells therefore an Embryo is a Living Organism.
"Life is sacred" is a mistranslation of part of 1733. "Life" ("hayat" does not even appear there!
1733 Do not kill the self/person/individual - God has made this forbidden - except in the course of justice. Whoever is killed unjustly, then We have given his heir authority. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder; he will be helped.
Besides, your reasoning is wrong, since life /=/ person/self/individual ("nafs). Using the same kind of arguement, I could say that we are forbidden to kill a chicken, since we would be taking a LIFE! ;D
The "fear of poverty" thing is only ONE reason, since it was a common practice at the time and place in which The Quran was revealed, and it is still nowadays. That doesn't, however, mean that there are no other reasons, or that that is a more unjust reason to kill anyone that something else.
For the issue of abortion see http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597884.msg210131#msg210131 and some of the following posts. This article should also help.
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The first limitation I will explain via the following Verses of 235-6
235 And they keep covered their private parts.
236 Except around their spouses (azwaaj), or those who are maintained by their oaths (ma malakat aymanukum), they are free from blame.
237 But whoever seeks anything beyond this, then these are the transgressors.The verse 235 is mistranslated. The verse is not about COVERING, but about protecting one's sexual intercourse. The verses are clear in prohibiting extramarital affairs.
Peace,
EdipI'm not an expert in Arabic, but here is the most literal translation I can come up with
235 Wa allatheena hum li furoojihim hafithoona = and those who, to their private parts, guard/are guarding.
This clearly refers to maintaining one's chastity. The exception for this is
236 Except around their spouses, or those whom they have contractual rights, they are free from blame.
Therefore, sex is only permissible with one's spouse(s) and one's MMA(s).
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The verse 235 is mistranslated. The verse is not about COVERING, but about protecting one's sexual intercourse. The verses are clear in prohibiting extramarital affairs.
Peace,
EdipI'm not an expert in Arabic, but here is the most literal translation I can come up with
235 Wa allatheena hum li furoojihim hafithoona = and those who, to their private parts, guard/are guarding.
This clearly refers to maintaining one's chastity. The exception for this is
236 Except around their spouses, or those whom they have contractual rights, they are free from blame.
Therefore, sex is only permissible with one's spouse(s) and one's MMA(s).
Salam P
That is what i'm arguing for. Sex with MMA. MMA meaning someone you have an oath with such as the oath between a couple in a relationship outside of marriage.
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In relationship to sex outside nikah or marriage as you call it or commited couples as I call it.
Could you quote verses to clarify? or explaing what they say?
Bear in mind verses such as 235-6
peace