How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran
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I do object to justifying religion-imposed abstinence by pointing at statistics and say "see, the pious people of the world have a lower percentage of HIV infections".
To me, the next step on that tactic will be "See, Allah is punishing the disbelievers by infecting them with HIV"
we agree but we just have different standpoints handshake
As you rightly said if people don't have the utensils then the only way to be safe is abstinence.
We can't blame Allah for our mistakes, but sure some people might.
peace
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Hi Emil,
I think abstinence by any means where the utesils are not available is important , in some countires in africa there may be up to 23 % of the population infected o
In your country in 2007 there were some 6,200 infected and in 2009 the figure was an alarming 11,000 - what would it be now, i wonder ???
peace
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In your country in 2007 there were some 6,200 infected and in 2009 the figure was an alarming 11,000 - what would it be now, i wonder ???
Well it has nothing to do with religion or that people have sex with strangers on a larger scale, that?s for sure......during the same time the muslim population has grown and there is no evidence that people have more sexual partners than 10 years ago. The largest part of HIV infected people in Sweden already had the disease when immigrating to the country.
For the rest it has to do with awareness and education. The generations that are becoming sexually active now have never experienced the AIDS scare, nor have they been subjected to anti-HIV campaigns.
Again I want to separate the apples from pears here. I think it is wrong to "use" a disease as a tool to make people believe or to follow the word of God. The guidelines regarding abstinence in not only sex but alcohol and gambling has nothing to do with keeping you as an individual safe. God is not telling you to not drink because it is bad for you but He sees the consenquences it has on your family and society. Gambling as well, it will make your family suffer more than it will make you suffer..........And of course sex...... Who can surely be at risk if you have uncommitted sex? You? Your partner? or the child that will grow up without a father? Who do you think that God is trying to protect? The active party or the innocent victim?
To promote abstinence by religious belief is of course OK, but it has to be done in the spirit of the Quran. There is only one verse that hints abstinence has to do with disease control, but the verse is more directed towards prostitution which narrows it down quite significally as to which kind of lewdness is not OK. In all other verses that deal with our sexuality a moral reason for abstinence is evidential. Therefore when we promote abstinence the reasons should be as per Quran and we should stop to look at what is going on today and what diseases are around right at this moment. We need to find what is relevant to every culture and to every age. Ever since mankind came about the protection and provisions of a child has been of outmost importance versus HIV that has only been around for a while. God did not give us the guidelines of abstinence because there will be a uncurable disease 1400 years later....He gave the guidelines to help us with a problem that has not changed over time, will never have a medical cure and will not go away until Islam is followed the way it should be by all cultures.
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Salam sister
Depends on your interpretation of what boyfriend/girlfriend. Labels mean different things to different people and I do not think we will ever be able to agree to "Yes, sex is illegal if the relationship falls into this category and it is legal when it is in that category"
I used the example of sambo a million times on this forum. Here in Sweden there is something called "sambo". They hold the same lawful status as a marriage (with minute differences with regards to inheritance). What is sambo? Two people in a sexual relationship that live under the same roof. The whole country considers a sambo to be the same as a husband/wife..........but in another country they would be boyfriend/girlfriend, in others they would be fornicators.See what I mean? What we call the relationship is completely irrelevant. Instead we need to focus on the intention of the couple. Are they having sex because they love eachother and want to start a family or are they only in it for the pleasure?
Age is also irrelevant. To me a young person is just as capable of following the guidelines of committment and loyalty than an old person......The only difference between ages is that the older you get the less fish swim in the sea & yes it is sad but true ........A teenage boy/girl can feel they have met their soulmate. I have known kids that are totally in love with eachother and they truly believe that they will never love anyone as much as they love whatever boy or girl has caught their attention. One of my daughters (7 yrs old) has already decided she is going to marry Samuel, a boy two years younger than her. She told me she is biding her time because she doesnt want to marry him until he has learned to "behave".....I dont know what she meant by that...... Allah sees the loyalty and pureness of her heart eventhough her love is completely innocent and naive and even if their relationship would not last longer than a lunchbreak it is still in the best of intentions. Should we stop them because they could possible not know what love is about? To me that sounds like a sunni scholar telling me I am not knowledgable enough to understand Islam, it would be better for me to let him decide what I should believe in.....
When we read the Quran we find verses that say to us we must try our hardest to understand. If we did not understand or did something wrong but our intentions were good we are forgiven by Allah. Why should we stop people from following what they think is right? Let people fall in love and if it doesnt work out, then let them learn from their mistakes. Lets just pray that they have learned enough by the time their biological clock starts ticking.....
We are not to forbid young people to enjoy and learn about sex. What we do however need is to give them proper guidance, their age does not rectify not having to follow rules. The committment must be there regardless of age, the true intent must be there regardless of age and the loyalty must be there regardless of what "category" the relationship falls into.So illegal sex to me is all the type of sex that does not include committment, true intentions and loyalty. It has nothing to do with age nor label.
Salaam brother,
I agree partly with Zulf in terms of the response - that sex is focused upon in todays society. I know that teenagers can definitely make good decisions. They can also make mistakes and want to keep up with their peers in terms of things like this. Actually, that isn't just teenagers, that's everyone. It really is about education but its also about responsibility. Some people who think they are ready, later say they weren't. There is also the issue that young people get into relationships where they are pressured into sex. One partner in the relationship might treat it more flippantly than they treat marriage or a concept that is closer to it. Like its just a fling. This can be part of the sub culture that surrounds boyfriend/girlfriend relationships among young people.
Well, that sambo thing sounds interesting - it does sound like marriage if both sides are committed. I also don't think you need to have sex to start a family. The point is if you did have a child - you're not left stranded.
In principle, I agree that young people can make a commitment. In the long run though and on a wider scale, how many young people or teenagers are going to just see someone they are physically attracted to and then say - yes they want commitment but then its not really like that and they split up easily?
That's sweet about your daughter and yes it is about intentions but if your intention is to create relationships where you say you are going to commit but in practice keep leaving each other... that doesn't sound like the whole intention is for the best reason.I'm not telling you anything, this is my personal opinion. I'm only following what I believe is within the remits of the Quran or exploring ideas and asking Allah for guidance. I don't believe we should tell each other what to do in this regard, but we should have an idea of what fits within the Quran's guidance. If I'm not sure about it, I'd rather leave it and ponder further.
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Salam Zulf
Allah only exists in theory, there is no hard evidence that He exists and we still believe in Him. Same with believing in the humanity of people, the kindness and love that all people theoratically possess. They are there in theory only, are we foolishly sticking to our beliefs? Is the reason to not believe because we cannot see it or find evidence for it?
It's not about hard evidence. There are some people who will say they want this and that type of proof. When it comes along, they will say there is this and that problem. So they want more. Even if they are given more, then they find another problem. It's like it says in the Quran - you can provide them with all the proof in the world and they won't believe. And it reminds me of the story of the calf - they kept wanting more, they weren't satisfied. That is also similar to hadiths.
We conclude Allah exists based on logic, the Quran, our own existence and practical experience. Another example is there are people who do believe in God only when they are desperate. They don't care that their very existence, as is everyone's existence, depends on their Creator and Sustainer anyway.
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It's not about hard evidence. There are some people who will say they want this and that type of proof. When it comes along, they will say there is this and that problem. So they want more. Even if they are given more, then they find another problem. It's like it says in the Quran - you can provide them with all the proof in the world and they won't believe. And it reminds me of the story of the calf - they kept wanting more, they weren't satisfied. That is also similar to hadiths.
We conclude Allah exists based on logic, the Quran, our own existence and practical experience. Another example is there are people who do believe in God only when they are desperate. They don't care that their very existence, as is everyone's existence, depends on their Creator and Sustainer anyway.
Salam Sister
The point I was tying to make is that we can believe in something even though it will only be true in theory. We can believe all people are good, we can believe we can live in peace, we can believe young people will be able to have a healthy relationship towards sex...........we can believe in God.
Some people call it naive, "wake up and smell the coffee" they say..........I really don't care what they call it.....I have chosen to believe that there is hope, goodness in all people and yes, I have chosen to believe in God.
That's sweet about your daughter and yes it is about intentions but if your intention is to create relationships where you say you are going to commit but in practice keep leaving each other... that doesn't sound like the whole intention is for the best reason.
I hate to use stupid examples or metaphores.......but you gotta crawl before you learn how to walk.......In my part of the world a relationship is based solely on love. A very minute part of the population get married because of money or any other materialistic reason. An even smaller amount gets married to someone picked by their parents.......
Love, as we all know changes its form after a while. First you got this madly in love stage, then in love, then love and then some sort of respectful love. Not many people can say they are crazy in love after a few years with the same partner...........
Therefore it is of outmost importance to know what love feels like before you make that really big committment to another person and get married with the intention to start a family. Otherwise you will only end up with people getting a divorce after a few years. If you committ to a person with your eyes fully open and you are prepared to face the challenges ahead you have a better chance to form the family intended by God where every child has a mother and father.
So let the kids learn while love is still innocent. There will be many lunchbreak relationships and probably some making out in secret places..............but it is still only a learning process for what is to come and not very harmful. Let them fall in love so they can realize that what they thought love was didnt last. Next time they will hopefully be wiser and choose more carefully.
Now I am not defending in any way today's viewpoint on sex, I think our society has forgotten the reason why God has given us the ability to enjoy it in the first place. But I am not blaming the kids. I blame the parents for being too shy/terrified/embarrased to speak openly about the most natural thing in the world. Instead of neutralizing sexuality it is instead put in a closet and not talked about.If kids are allowed to learn about love while it is still innocent it is a good chance they will learn to have a sound attitude towards sex. Our job as parents is to teach them the "difficult" part, namely the oaths and committments that come along with the package
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Salam Sister
The point I was tying to make is that we can believe in something even though it will only be true in theory. We can believe all people are good, we can believe we can live in peace, we can believe young people will be able to have a healthy relationship towards sex...........we can believe in God.
Some people call it naive, "wake up and smell the coffee" they say..........I really don't care what they call it.....I have chosen to believe that there is hope, goodness in all people and yes, I have chosen to believe in God.
Salaam, brother
I would say I agree with some of what you say here. I would describe things a bit differently. I believe all people are capable of good and wrongdoing. People choose the wrongdoing or accept that type of character because they think they can get what they want, there will be no consequences etc. I wouldn't necessarily say this means all people are good. Maybe this is what you mean anyway.
With the point about God, I feel there is more evidence and certainty. Because its about the existence of God, it's easier to define and say what the evidence is etc. With concepts like young people have healthy relationships with sex - it can vary because each individual will be different and when they will be ready will vary. I suppose the point is about a generalisation.
I hate to use stupid examples or metaphores.......but you gotta crawl before you learn how to walk.......In my part of the world a relationship is based solely on love. A very minute part of the population get married because of money or any other materialistic reason. An even smaller amount gets married to someone picked by their parents.......
Love, as we all know changes its form after a while. First you got this madly in love stage, then in love, then love and then some sort of respectful love. Not many people can say they are crazy in love after a few years with the same partner...........
Therefore it is of outmost importance to know what love feels like before you make that really big committment to another person and get married with the intention to start a family. Otherwise you will only end up with people getting a divorce after a few years. If you committ to a person with your eyes fully open and you are prepared to face the challenges ahead you have a better chance to form the family intended by God where every child has a mother and father.
So let the kids learn while love is still innocent. There will be many lunchbreak relationships and probably some making out in secret places..............but it is still only a learning process for what is to come and not very harmful. Let them fall in love so they can realize that what they thought love was didnt last. Next time they will hopefully be wiser and choose more carefully.
Now I am not defending in any way today's viewpoint on sex, I think our society has forgotten the reason why God has given us the ability to enjoy it in the first place. But I am not blaming the kids. I blame the parents for being too shy/terrified/embarrased to speak openly about the most natural thing in the world. Instead of neutralizing sexuality it is instead put in a closet and not talked about.If kids are allowed to learn about love while it is still innocent it is a good chance they will learn to have a sound attitude towards sex. Our job as parents is to teach them the "difficult" part, namely the oaths and committments that come along with the package
i guess that's the question, do all people need to experience relationships in the same way in order to make a decision about marriage? I wouldn't say so. With little children, there's no reason to warn away. The only point, for me, comes when they reach teenage years and have to face decisions they aren't ready for and may regret that etc.
I don't want to blame anyone. Some people do things for good reasons and young people/adults/whoever can all have a good and bad reason for why they do what they do. If you believe in God, you have to trust that He will find you t he right partner. I mean, otherwise you are just choosing someone within your proximity - whether that's physical, online, anyone that someone happens to encounter. It is God that will bring people together and allow a relationship to blossom, from my perspective.
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You have to bring forth evidence from the Quran here. This is not Sunni Islam where the boys screw as many women as they want till they are ready to get married and than marry their cousins. Often Muslim men play this game since they can only have sex with Muslim women if they marry them and often financially they are not ready so they go for non Muslim women give them romantic lies and tell them they love them and care about them and hang around there for a while and then take off and marry their cousins. They then are scared someone will do the same with their sisters and daughters so they have strict rules regarding their own girls but see nothing wrong with messing with other women. Societies where men often can even have adultereres affairs and nothing happens but if a women does it than hell breaks lose. Societies where women get all the blame and shame even if she is raped.
We are interested here with what the Quran has to say and not what male dominated tribal societies have to say. This is not Sunni Islam.
Now if we look t the Bible we can see that prophets often had wives and concubines. In the Bible a concubine is a marriage set up by oath only. There is no dowry or financial arrangement. This marraige is known in the Arab world as urfi marriages. A man and woman make on oath to be married but there is no dowry set up and often the parents are not aware. A contract is signed but many times it is not registered by the judicial system. This marriage is usually done because of financial constraints. The Quran does not advice on such marriages because abuse can occur where a man can sometimes deny he is married to her and escapes parental responsibility. But in the end it is a bond established by mutal oath and is considered legitimate. The Quran advices that such relationships should be elevated in to a proper marriage where a dowry or some financial arrangement is set up for the women in case of divorce and the parents should be informed so no problems occurs in the future and the contract should be handed to the women if she asks for it. Abraham married Hagar that way and Solomon and David all had concubines.
Islamic authorities understand concubines as slaves. This is not a Biblical understanding and is based only on hadiths. Slavery is rape and nothing else. The verses about MMA came on the Medina community probably because of the presence of many Jews there where the practice of concubinage was common. This practice may not have been common in Mecca and later Muslim authorities simply wanted to enslave prisoners of war and found it convenient to change MMA's meaning.
Now some may look at MMA as similar to non married couples where even if there is no formal marriage agreement there is still a mutual oath where the couple act as if they are married. The problem here is financial arangement as protection. It is this that the Quran is worried about especially if a pregnancy occurs where the man could simply run away from responsibility denying the child is his. This happened in Egypt when a famous actor's son had a Urfi marriage with a women and when she got pregnant he tore off the contract he had with her and denied he ever married her. After DNA testing he had to acknowledge his reponsibility. This is what the Quan is concerned about, protection and justice for the woman and child.
The Quran prohibits casual sex but couples do not get together for casual sex. This is usually prostitution or one night stands. One night stands of course is not based on an oath between a couple. But boyfriend and girlfriend arrangement is a form of a bond. It is similar in many ways to MMA. The Quran however does not advice such arrangements because of possibility of abuse. All couples have the same arrangement what seperates couples from other couples is legal and financial protection.
Casual sex is prohibited in the Quran but this is not be confused with adultery. Adultery is a betrayal of oath and can be considered a crime. Casual sex is not a breaking of on oath and a betrayal of trust and therefore does not constitute a crime. This could be considered a sin but it is not a punishable sin by a state since a third party is not involved. This talk of bringing shame to the family is Sunni tribal talk. Shame to the family does not constitute a crime. Taking what is righfully someone else right is a crime as adultery is. There are certain things humans can hold other humans accountable for and there are certain things only God can hold a human accountable for like disbeleiving, worshping idols, being miserly and selfish and rude etc.
We must learn to understand the language of the Quran. Everybody is free to do what they want in this life but not to infringe on somebody elses right like stealing, killing, slandering or cheating with somebody else while married to a woman.
In the case of adultery the Quran holds the person responsible if he is married. But the charge can only be brought on the one who is married. Not every sin is a crime. Disbelieving is an unforiveable sin but the Quran gave people the freedom to do so and God will hold them accountable in the hereafter. But what humans can hold other humans accountable for is dependent on infirnging on someone else's right.
In the Bible
Among the Israelites, men commonly acknowledged their concubines, and such women enjoyed the same rights in the house as legitimate wives. The principal difference in the Bible between a wife and a concubine is that wives had dowries, while concubines did not.
The concubine may not have commanded the same respect and inviolability as the wife. The Hebrew word used in the Levitical rules on sexual relations, which is commonly translated as "wife", is distinct from the Hebrew word that means "concubine". (However, on at least one other occasion it is used to refer a woman who is not a wife - specifically, the handmaid of Jacob's wife.) In the Levitical code, sexual intercourse between a man and a wife of a different man was forbidden and punishable by death for both persons involved. The Bible notes several incidents of intercourse between a man and another man's concubine, and none of them result in capital punishment for either party, although the man to whom the concubine belonged was dishonored by such a relationship. For instance, David is portrayed as having been dishonored when his concubines had a sexual relationship with his son Absalom.
Since it was regarded as the highest blessing to have many children, legitimate wives often gave their maids to their husbands to atone, at least in part, if they were barren, as in the cases of Sarah and Hagar, and Rachel and Bilhah. The children of the concubine had equal rights with those of the legitimate wife; for example, King Abimelech was the son of Gideon and his concubine. Later biblical figures such as Gideon, and Solomon had concubines in addition to many childbearing wives. For example, the Books of Kings says that Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
In Judaism
In Judaism, concubines are referred to by the Hebrew term pilegesh. The term is a non-Hebrew, non-Semitic loanword derived from the Greek word, pallakis, Greek , meaning "a mistress staying in house".
According to the Babylonian Talmud, the difference between a concubine and a full wife was that the latter received a marriage contract (Hebrewketubah) and her marriage (nissu'in) was preceded by a formal betrothal (erusin), neither being the case for a concubine. But, one opinion in the Jerusalem Talmud argues that the concubine should also receive a marriage contract, but without including a clause specifying a divorce settlement.
Certain Jewish thinkers, such as Maimonides, believed that concubines are strictly reserved for kings, and thus that a commoner may not have a concubine; indeed, such thinkers argued that commoners may not engage in any type of sexual relations outside of a marriage. Before Maimonides concluded this, Sunni Muslims officially prohibited mutah (i.e. temporary marriage) relationships; some commentators' suggest that Maimonides changed his view in response to this development, similar to Gershom ben Judah's ban on polygamy being made after Christians had prohibited it.
Maimonides was not the first Jewish thinker to criticise concubinage; for example, it is severely condemned in Leviticus Rabbah. Other Jewish thinkers, such as Nahmanides, Samuel ben Uri Shraga Phoebus, and Jacob Emden, strongly object to the idea that concubines should be forbidden.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubinage
This is very well thought out. Have you thought about doing any longer writing on this topic in any sort of muslim forum? I feel like actual scholarship disagreeing with dogmatic puritanism in the muslim community has really been sparse
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Salam nimnimak_11
I think I agree with you. The things that are prohibited are mentioned in Quran not the ones that are not. Quran doesn't want to limit our lives, it just want to protect from the dangers. It all goes along with the meaning of "mutaqi" and Quran is the guidance for mutaqeen as stated by Quran in starting of Surah Baqrah.
Thanks for sharing it.
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Again I want to separate the apples from pears here. I think it is wrong to "use" a disease as a tool to make people believe or to follow the word of God. The guidelines regarding abstinence in not only sex but alcohol and gambling has nothing to do with keeping you as an individual safe. God is not telling you to not drink because it is bad for you but He sees the consenquences it has on your family and society. Gambling as well, it will make your family suffer more than it will make you suffer..........And of course sex...... Who can surely be at risk if you have uncommitted sex? You? Your partner? or the child that will grow up without a father? Who do you think that God is trying to protect? The active party or the innocent victim?
Well whether Alcohol and gambling is in the quran or not is another topic , but their accesive use can be dangerous , with same logic the risk factor for aids with accesive sex with multiple partners also increases.
I agree though the marriage/ or commitment with your partner is essentially to safeguard / lookafter your partner and any ofspring that may result.And the best comittment is in front of witnesses - then you will no doubt feel and be more accountable regarding your comitmitment to the results of the relationship, without such commitments one person can easily be let down when they may be needy.
peace
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Well whether Alcohol and gambling is in the quran or not is another topic , but their accesive use can be dangerous , with same logic the risk factor for aids with accesive sex with multiple partners also increases.
I agree though the marriage/ or commitment with your partner is essentially to safeguard / lookafter your partner and any ofspring that may result.And the best comittment is in front of witnesses - then you will no doubt feel and be more accountable regarding your comitmitment to the results of the relationship, without such commitments one person can easily be let down when they may be needy.
peace
Salam
I agree with you, but now you are mixing the apples with the pears
Drinking and gambling is explained in the Quran as something we should be very careful with.....Why? because in it there is evil (2219). Simple and easy to understand. In 591 the evil in question is explained more specifically, that alcohol and gambling can lead to enemies and hatred towards eachother. So we are to stay away from such things not because of what impact it has on our liver or wallet, but because of the impact it has on society as a whole.
Almost the same could be said for "zina", or "shameful deeds" as one may interpret it. Good explanation to why we should stay away is in 1732 where it tells us to stay away from temptation because it may lead to a path of shameless and sinful manner.
But is there any further explanation as with drinking and gambling? Yes there is, but this time it is not because it will create enemies and hatred but because "zina" can lead us away from Allah.....The story of LOT is of course the cr?me-de-la-cr?me of what could happen to us if we live in shame and sin. In 1716 a similar way is described with yet again a stern warning to the community not to let shameful deeds spread to the extent when society forgets/shuns Allah. In both verses Allah will destroy the community totally, no-one will be spared, children, women, men, married, unmarried........Now are the children and married people destroyed by Allah because they have/had sex before marriage? According to you the answer is yes. When you say the spread of HIV (creation of Allah) is the result of non-abstinence you are indirectly saying Allah has given this disease to those who are living in sin. By saying that you are directly giving HIV the credential to be regarded as Allah's punishment for the wicked.
Yes, I know you haven't said it in those words. You said living in abstinence (according to the Quran) is a good way to control disease. But what you really said could easily be misquoted into what I claim you said. Unfortunately the misquotes are normally what people hear and listen to, especially if they do not possess the knowledge that you do.Now, falling in love does not make you forget Allah, no matter what age you are. On the contrary it makes you thankful to Him. Having sexual intercourse does not make you forget Allah, no matter what age you are. On the contrary it makes you closer to Him.
That is why I find it dangerous ground to walk on to (eventhough unintentionally) link any kind of disease to any kind of religion. Just like I mentioned before with my sister whose handicap was in Egypt regarded as a punishment from Allah. My sisters handicap is not different from any disease. A child infected by HIV from the mother is not being punished, it is the path chosen by Allah. A mother infected by her cheating husband is not being punished, it is her path set by Allah. A cheating husband infected by HIV is not punished by Allah, he is punished by mankind with a hundred stripes.
Letting your physical desire govern you to the extent it makes you forget Allah.....Well, you will be judged accordingly on the day of Judgement.
We humans are not to judge, we are not to say it is haram or not. We should leave that up to the One that truly knows the truth. We should not use the religion as a cure of a disease, no matter how good the intentions are. The reason is because even in the most gentle of societies there will always be someone who will look upon the sick as punished by Allah. This is wrong IMO because if the punishment comes (here on earth) it will strike down the entire society, not the individual. -
There is four points against sex before marriage
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There is nothing in Abrahamic teaching in Christian n Jews, which told sex before marriage is allowed.
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There is no point, "posses right hand" in 2431 transalated into boyfriend or sex slaves.Posses right hand, it means a person who become second "hand" of another person.It has conotation meaning, so it's mean a person who did another person's work.So "posses right hand" means slave,maid.
What criterion of slave? If the slaves is a mature man, it means the slaves already married with her (43, 424). -
We cannot meet secretly a person which different gender from us unless "there is something important to discuss", look on 2235.
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Even hadith contradict sharia and Quranic law, but not so in "historical account".With hadith, we can know Arabic cultures in that time.Yet we will not find girlfriend-boyfriend cultures in hadith.
Like @pixelrow said, "sex before marriage" is liberal western cultures and it's nothing to do with Islam.
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There is four points against sex before marriage
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There is nothing in Abrahamic teaching in Christian n Jews, which told sex before marriage is allowed.
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There is no point, "posses right hand" in 2431 transalated into boyfriend or sex slaves.Posses right hand, it means a person who become second "hand" of another person.It has conotation meaning, so it's mean a person who did another person's work.So "posses right hand" means slave,maid.
What criterion of slave? If the slaves is a mature man, it means the slaves already married with her (43, 424). -
We cannot meet secretly a person which different gender from us unless "there is something important to discuss", look on 2235.
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Even hadith contradict sharia and Quranic law, but not so in "historical account".With hadith, we can know Arabic cultures in that time.Yet we will not find girlfriend-boyfriend cultures in hadith.
Like @pixelrow said, "sex before marriage" is liberal western cultures and it's nothing to do with Islam.
So eastern non-liberal culture has something to do with Islam?
Look Earthdom and pixelrow.............who has ever condoned the way of the western culture in any of the posts here? Both of you are flagrantly blaming western culture as a bad influence on Islam and the personal desires of the believers. Based on what? Jersey Shore? To be against the notion of "no sex before marriage" does not automatically mean your opinion is that sex should be "free".
I see the evil ways of the western cultures by letting sex become "free". But I also see the evil ways of the so-called Islamic communities that are marrying off their daughters at a very young age, sometimes against their will.
There is a fundamental difference between them though. One is justifying their cultural ways in the name of God and the other one is trying to free itself from the "shackles" of religion.Which one do you think I think is the hypocrite. One that changes the law of God or one that declares it will not follow the law of God?
As a believer one must look into what the Quran reeaaally says and one must realize that the Quran is for everyone regardless of culture. One must realize that our individual or community interpretation of what "marriage" means is only our interpretation. For example I do not consider a 12-year old girl as legally married, but in other parts of the world it is totally legitimate.
As a believer one must find out what Allah means by "married", not what the court/mosque/church/synagouge says. Where do we find it? Quran of course............It turns out that whenever the Quran describes what marriage could mean it is all about love and respect
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And they who say O our Lord! grant us in our wives and our offspring the joy of our eyes, and make us guides to those who guard (against evil).3021
And one of His signs is that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest in them, and He put between you love and compassion; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.Where are the rituals? Where does it say that we must follow only one "style" of wedding?
I don't think all that nonsense is important to Allah. As long as we are true in our hearts and treat our spouse with respect and loyalty, then all that other matter is not so important.
A "boyfriend" can love his "girlfriend" just as much that a husband can love his wife. A 14-year old can love the same as a 40-year old. Since we are guided by the Quran and the Quran interprets "marriage" in the way of above verses, then yes sex before "marriage" is allowed. However, sex without love, respect and committment is not allowed.
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Sorry @Emil, please don't misinterpreted my post.I never pointing western cultures, but what I pointing is liberalism.
Please slow down your emotion.You may recognize it too, from where the liberalism came? The answer is West right.
I never say western culture is bad, eastern culture is good.Eastern cultures also have bad things too, like voodoo and another shirk.Even in my place, some Muslims still believe n do some shirk or black magics like santet.
For @Emil or another users, who saw me as an anti-western.Let me clarify, I'm not a facism who hate this, hate that.I like western cultures too, I like Rolling Stones, Beattles, Scorpion, Mr Bean, Spongebob, Hollywood etc.
I'm not possessed by any dangerous ideology.I'm just a pure Muslim )
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A "boyfriend" can love his "girlfriend" just as much that a husband can love his wife. A 14-year old can love the same as a 40-year old. Since we are guided by the Quran and the Quran interprets "marriage" in the way of above verses, then yes sex before "marriage" is allowed. However, sex without love, respect and committment is not allowed.
That is basically a marriage - i think.
So sex is allowed when love, respect and committment is there - i suppose in every culture , but it has different names peace
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That is basically a marriage - i think.
So sex is allowed when love, respect and committment is there - i suppose in every culture , but it has different names peace
Sex before marriage is NOT allowed in Islam. This is simply conforming to Western Ideals - by changing the religion to suit your own desires. There is no translation of the Quran that allows this.
There is no expert of Arabic who would advocate any such translation. End of.
People on here tendto make anything up . . .
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"Look Earthdom and pixelrow.............who has ever condoned the way of the western culture in any of the posts here? Both of you are flagrantly blaming western culture as a bad influence on Islam and the personal desires of the believers. Based on what? Jersey Shore? To be against the notion of "no sex before marriage" does not automatically mean your opinion is that sex should be "free". "
The evidence is over-whelming Edip Yuksel's Quran translation is ANYTHING but changing Quran to suit Western Ideals. That is wrong on every level. Whether one actually admits it or not . . . is of little consequence . . . because the similarities become very apparent - hence - it is easy to decipher where the motivation of such position comes from. Westernism.
Yuksel simply invents meaning for Arabic from himself - those that ARE not present and have never been advocated by anyone before him.
"I see the evil ways of the western cultures by letting sex become "free". But I also see the evil ways of the so-called Islamic communities that are marrying off their daughters at a very young age, sometimes against their will. "
Islam forbids marriage against will and those that have not reached puberty
Yet this has no real bearing on debate whether - sex outside of marriage is allowed. It isn't.
"As a believer one must look into what the Quran reeaaally says and one must realize that the Quran is for everyone regardless of culture. One must realize that our individual or community interpretation of what "marriage" means is only our interpretation. For example I do not consider a 12-year old girl as legally married, but in other parts of the world it is totally legitimate."
In other words - bit of hocus pocus . . . invent new meaning that did not exist before . . . curse all the past Muslims . . . then sideline with Westernism. Look you are going to do it now . . .
As far as I know - ALL Muslim countries have set age of marriage legally at after puberty - that is plus sixteen.
"As a believer one must find out what Allah means by "married", not what the court/mosque/church/synagouge says. Where do we find it? Quran of course............It turns out that whenever the Quran describes what marriage could mean it is all about love and respect"
No - it is a simple social/financial function . . . but proper societal function.
"Where are the rituals? Where does it say that we must follow only one "style" of wedding?"
Right here . . .
And do not marry those whom your fathers married, except what has already occurred. Indeed, it was an immorality and hateful and was evil as a way.
Guess - what NaKaHa - is alluding to?
"I don't think all that nonsense is important to Allah. As long as we are true in our hearts and treat our spouse with respect and loyalty, then all that other matter is not so important."
No - that is YOU projecting YOUR nonsense unto God. And not taking the command of Allah.
Marriage HAS always been an institution . . . it was for those before us and it still continues.
"A "boyfriend" can love his "girlfriend" just as much that a husband can love his wife. A 14-year old can love the same as a 40-year old. Since we are guided by the Quran and the Quran interprets "marriage" in the way of above verses, then yes sex before "marriage" is allowed. However, sex without love, respect and committment is not allowed."
Oh . . . and you were denying Westernism . . . . such things DESTROY society . . . as the Western Society is destroyed.
This is BS you invented . . . Quran has nothing to do with it. . . . that is why you pick the verses that suit your argument . . . . and miss out those that do not.
Consider the verse
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"And married women except those your right hands possess. the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are beyond these, that you seek them with your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise."
So why did you miss this verse out?
Let us look at this verse
"And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing."
This is a direct command to marry. A powerful social institution. Not your nonsense
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This is simply conforming to Western Ideals
I suggest you to change the word western into liberalism or put liberal before word western
Do you know, some members in this forum lives in western hermisphere, so I think we musn't create some hostility.
I know you're Sunni fanatism, you're doctrined to hate Western cultures, hate USA, hate Israel.When I still a Sunni fanatism, I was doctrined the same too by radical Ulamas.I nearly became radical person, but I'm educated people, so I can filter their doctrine.
@Pixelrow you must became open minded, not all western cultures is unIslamic n not all eastern cultures is Islamic.