Linguistic riddle solved, for those who want to learn
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How about you closely examine Classic Arabic like Badar Kanwar does?
I am an arabic speaker, I wish to know what classical arabic you are talking about (I really do)...
...most arabs refute this by saying that the christians (they even use it to describe the trinity, including saying Allah-Al Ebn (Allah the son) and the jews who are arabs still call there God Allah, because that is the term we use, like Khuda in Farsi.
Why not use Al-Ilah is a valid question, however first of all from a phonetic point view repeatedly saying Al-Ilah sounds strange to an arab speaker I personally find it strange using the phonetic of Al-El
Saying
Alhamdu-le-al-Ilahi
Subhan-al-IlahThe i sound effect in the middle sounds strange. I guess this is sort of like didn't instead of did not, and even in modern English saying gonna and wanna, or ain't that something. I don't know what to tell you, it just has this same tone to me.
Now I am no expert my self, but from a phonetic term, I can't see my self everytime saying Allah, having this awkward pause for al-ilah
, this is sort of like any language where you don't explain things by the grammar of it, but by the flow of the language when spoken, for example in english I rarely figure out why something sounds foreign to english because I know grammar, but because that just sounds like broken english I don't know if you get my drift.
I had problems with the term Allah, because of how people sanctify the word, as if Allah, is the name of God...and yes some resources explain it that way, I was taught in my Arab country that Allah is a contraction, they could've been wrong, or just telling me their version. But I personally lived with Christians and saw there use of the word Allah, and as I said someone running around saying Al-Ilah would sound bizarre unless you are being very detailed, like an English speaker saying didn't you hear me I said I do NOT care.
I personally also seen in Canada, that people who don't speak arabic nativley but are muslims, have this relationship with the term Allah, which sounds like they have to say it Allah saying khuda for example would be false. I don't know, I am sure they were raised that way in their countries, but most arabs don't have a stigma refering to Allah as God, or whatever the language requires.
I do believe there is nothing sacred about the term, and according to historians, Arabs even before islam used the term to represent the idea of the god they thought is the ultimate God sort of speak.
I personally think, that the word was contracted because it sounds phonetically demanding, and impedes an Arabian way of speaking but that is my opinion
Wa Al Ilah A'lam... (Sounds so strange lol)And I am stumped by how Allathi got into explaining anything, I read your post I am having a lot of difficulty understanding what you are trying to say, but as I said, I am interested to know .
Edit Also as alot of previous repliers, mentioned, God refers to him self as Allah, Rab, Ilahon Wahed.
573221
And honestly, you are the one who is sounding like SOME Sunnis, saying wait till a 'certain member' comes back, exactly the inability to defend your own thoughts, and refering the matter to someone else, and saying (wait till he gets back he will handle you).
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peace;
Please could you be more clear in "you can confirm it if you want by using Quantum Mechanics". Is Quantum mechanism another Quran?
Peace
It's science, do you blindly follow the Quran or you follow it because it makes sense? If the Quran said people are blue would you believe it just because it said so? Would that mean the Quran was divine?
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I am an arabic speaker, I wish to know what classical arabic you are talking about (I really do)...
...most arabs refute this by saying that the christians (they even use it to describe the trinity, including saying Allah-Al Ebn (Allah the son) and the jews who are arabs still call there God Allah, because that is the term we use, like Khuda in Farsi.
Why not use Al-Ilah is a valid question, however first of all from a phonetic point view repeatedly saying Al-Ilah sounds strange to an arab speaker I personally find it strange using the phonetic of Al-El
Saying
Alhamdu-le-al-Ilahi
Subhan-al-IlahThe i sound effect in the middle sounds strange. I guess this is sort of like didn't instead of did not, and even in modern English saying gonna and wanna, or ain't that something. I don't know what to tell you, it just has this same tone to me.
Now I am no expert my self, but from a phonetic term, I can't see my self everytime saying Allah, having this awkward pause for al-ilah
, this is sort of like any language where you don't explain things by the grammar of it, but by the flow of the language when spoken, for example in english I rarely figure out why something sounds foreign to english because I know grammar, but because that just sounds like broken english I don't know if you get my drift.
I had problems with the term Allah, because of how people sanctify the word, as if Allah, is the name of God...and yes some resources explain it that way, I was taught in my Arab country that Allah is a contraction, they could've been wrong, or just telling me their version. But I personally lived with Christians and saw there use of the word Allah, and as I said someone running around saying Al-Ilah would sound bizarre unless you are being very detailed, like an English speaker saying didn't you hear me I said I do NOT care.
I personally also seen in Canada, that people who don't speak arabic nativley but are muslims, have this relationship with the term Allah, which sounds like they have to say it Allah saying khuda for example would be false. I don't know, I am sure they were raised that way in their countries, but most arabs don't have a stigma refering to Allah as God, or whatever the language requires.
I do believe there is nothing sacred about the term, and according to historians, Arabs even before islam used the term to represent the idea of the god they thought is the ultimate God sort of speak.
I personally think, that the word was contracted because it sounds phonetically demanding, and impedes an Arabian way of speaking but that is my opinion
Wa Al Ilah A'lam... (Sounds so strange lol)And I am stumped by how Allathi got into explaining anything, I read your post I am having a lot of difficulty understanding what you are trying to say, but as I said, I am interested to know ).
Edit Also as alot of previous repliers, mentioned, God refers to him self as Allah, Rab, Ilahon Wahed.
573221
And honestly, you are the one who is sounding like SOME Sunnis, saying wait till a 'certain member' comes back, exactly the inability to defend your own thoughts, and refering the matter to someone else, and saying (wait till he gets back he will handle you).
How can God refer to him self as Allah when god doesn't exist? And how can the fictional character God refer to himself as Allah when the people who created religion for their own greed didn't know what Allah really was?
By Classic Arabic I mean the one used at Muhammad's time, which is obviously different, the Al Ilah thing is the weakest argument about Allah not being god, there are many more
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Kaiokenred, your every post amazes me. It also confirms my understanding that Rabb continue to guide his creation, who want to be guided to his truth irrespective of Quran. I am attending to a family member who had liver transplant. Hence may not be able to log on for extended times for sometimes in future. But will try to catch up in future with important issues belonging to write up about Allah soon.
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There is no god at all, that's what I'm trying to say. Allah is not a god, the concept of Allah is the opposite of a god. The real meaning of a god is " one who is invoked ", That is as you see, extremely religious and can't possibly describe Allah, You do not invoke Allah, also a god is an outside force that controls reality, while Allah manifests all reality from the inside-out, you can confirm it if you want by using Quantum Mechanics
I am asking about the except part. There is no God at all except? What?
Allahu allathi la ilaha illah hu. How do yu translate that?
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I am asking about the except part. There is no God at all except? What?
Allahu allathi la ilaha illah hu. How do yu translate that?
I'm not a translator
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Kaiokenred, your every post amazes me. It also confirms my understanding that Rabb continue to guide his creation, who want to be guided to his truth irrespective of Quran. I am attending to a family member who had liver transplant. Hence may not be able to log on for extended times for sometimes in future. But will try to catch up in future with important issues belonging to write up about Allah soon.
Thank you, I've had this belief for months now. Keep up the good work
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Peace Kaiokenred;
A part this subject on the vocable allah, i will really want to know the performance of your QM to explain phenomena, as it seems to me that Plank wrote on light has nothing to do with the reality...
IAnyway i hope that it is not getting you out of the way?Peace
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We need first to understand that word "God" in English as well all equivalent concepts in other languages are referring to title not a name. God means "A deity or entity which is worthy of human." The author of Quran denied this concept by word Allah= One who is not a deity for worship. Please think this differencing concept of word God is cause of most, if not all conflicts in the world always. Why would a Universal entity create such a chaos? Is there a chaos in any of other his laws? However, concept of no deity for worship if accepted will bring humanity together.
However, to understand our Rabb one can look around to find affirmations. But there are some seeming conflicts might confuse one. However, if were to pay attention to himself/herself. Think if I could or do exist all by myself? One will find answer as big resounding "no". This shall confirm existence of Rabb (a sustainer, maintainer, foster and accomplisher).
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Peace Kaiokenred;
A part this subject on the vocable allah, i will really want to know the performance of your QM to explain phenomena, as it seems to me that Plank wrote on light has nothing to do with the reality...
IAnyway i hope that it is not getting you out of the way?Peace
You want scientific stuff then look here http//servantofthelight.com/
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We need first to understand that word "God" in English as well all equivalent concepts in other languages are referring to title not a name. God means "A deity or entity which is worthy of human." The author of Quran denied this concept by word Allah= One who is not a deity for worship. Please think this differencing concept of word God is cause of most, if not all conflicts in the world always. Why would a Universal entity create such a chaos? Is there a chaos in any of other his laws? However, concept of no deity for worship if accepted will bring humanity together.
However, to understand our Rabb one can look around to find affirmations. But there are some seeming conflicts might confuse one. However, if were to pay attention to himself/herself. Think if I could or do exist all by myself? One will find answer as big resounding "no". This shall confirm existence of Rabb (a sustainer, maintainer, foster and accomplisher).
It's even worse, most linguistics agree the word God comes from some word I forgot from some language I forgot, that means "that which is invoked", mushrikeen much?
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It's even worse, most linguistics agree the word God comes from some word I forgot from some language I forgot, that means "that which is invoked", mushrikeen much?
Good going Kaiokenred, origin is word god in English is not know with certainty. It is new title/name. Its origin some attribute to Sanskrit word "hu" meaning "call upon, invoke, implore".
Arabic word illah's meaning is certainly preserved as "a deity for worship and adoration".
Script of Quran so far appears preserved. Its meanings seem preserved in archives of language. Need to find these. Quran is simple but not easy to understand in its current form, especially with the noise surrounding it. If there is any interpolation of Quranic text, I am sure it shall become manifest as rest is understood.
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Good going Kaiokenred, origin is word god in English is not know with certainty. It is new title/name. Its origin some attribute to Sanskrit word "hu" meaning "call upon, invoke, implore".
Arabic word illah's meaning is certainly preserved as "a deity for worship and adoration".
Script of Quran so far appears preserved. Its meanings seem preserved in archives of language. Need to find these. Quran is simple but not easy to understand in its current form, especially with the noise surrounding it. If there is any interpolation of Quranic text, I am sure it shall become manifest as rest is understood.
When translating you should also use the old quran even in Arabic. The modern Quran published today is different from the original one, and by that I'm saying the arabic words were altered
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Peace Kaiokenred.
Did anyone before badar understand the Koran? Do you believe in the last prophet or any prophet/ messenger?
Is anyone else going to understand/translate it or is it exclusive to Badar alone?
How long before we get the whole translation from Badar?
Is there any chance that Badar is human and he may make mistakes in his translation?
Since we do not understand, explain to us please.
Peace. -
Peace Kaiokenred.
Did anyone before badar understand the Koran? Do you believe in the last prophet or any prophet/ messenger?
Is anyone else going to understand/translate it or is it exclusive to Badar alone?
How long before we get the whole translation from Badar?
Is there any chance that Badar is human and he may make mistakes in his translation?
Since we do not understand, explain to us please.
Peace.Did anyone before badar understand the Koran? Do you believe in the last prophet or any prophet/ messenger?
I know Muhammad was a prophet, not sure about others. And yes other before Badar understood the Quran, and then it got corrupted and very few people if any remained that knew the real meaning.
Is anyone else going to understand/translate it or is it exclusive to Badar alone?
Well whoever wants can examine Lane Lexicon and translate it, but Badar is the only translator who's totally free of concepts that came from hadiths and other corrupted stuff, at least from the translators I knowHow long before we get the whole translation from Badar?
Why ask me? Also remember that Badar has a life.Is there any chance that Badar is human and he may make mistakes in his translation?
Sure, but just like his signature says, he's always open to correct them no? It's not like he's making any major mistakes either
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Peace Kaiokenred.
Please reflect on what you are saying. You are making Badar an "Idol"
... In fact their idols inflict great pain upon them ( invent laws/rules , Write their own words, Add/ takeaway?) and confuse their religion for them?
My advice is73 You shall follow what is revealed to you from your Lord. ( Only the word of GOD!) Do not follow any idols. ( Do not follow the words of men!) Rarely do you take heed!?
Peace
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Peace Kaiokenred.
Please reflect on what you are saying. You are making Badar an "Idol"
... In fact their idols inflict great pain upon them ( invent laws/rules , Write their own words, Add/ takeaway?) and confuse their religion for them?
My advice is73 You shall follow what is revealed to you from your Lord. ( Only the word of GOD!) Do not follow any idols. ( Do not follow the words of men!) Rarely do you take heed!?
Peace
You're honestly the total opposite of your username
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Linguistic understanding of word Allah has been on the internet at several sites for over two years now. So far there has not been a critique. However, following was sent to me to address the concerns raised.
"I read your article about the name "allah" and its etymology / grammar. You may be right - I don't know - but not for the reasons you have given there. To form an argument worth the name, you need to show that "alathi" has been contracted elsewhere in the way you claim it has here. But you don't do that in the article. Can you do this? Do you have an example? I would be interested to see it.
I feel you do need to produce this (or something similar) to retain credibility, since the concept you claim for the word "allah" is central to your presentation.
Kind regards,
Sam "
I am sure the writer is asking. If there is proof from current Quranic translations as to word "alathi" is contracted as "al". Since, I have referenced linguistically to be the case. Both, A Grammar of The Arabic Language by William Wright (Vol. 1 page 269 D) and Lexicon of Arabic Language by Edward Lane (Vol 1, page 74) have cited it with examples to be a linguistic reality.
More importantly, can it be proven by current translation of Quran. Yes, not one, but multiple examples.
677
Yousuf Ali When he saw the moon rising in splendour, he said "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said "unless my Lord guide me, I shall surely be among those who go astray."
799
Yousuf Ali Did they then feel secure against the plan of Allah?- but no one can feel secure from the Plan of Allah, except those (doomed) to ruin!
Other examples are at 62 different places, 526, 25, 567. Any place word is used it is at most places translated in meaning of "alathi".
We are lead through, with a careful linguistic analysis, to a conclusion that the word from Al-Qu'ran is not the proper noun (name) of our Rabb. It actually stands for allathi = who, La = not and finally illah . This would mean ?One who is not illah?.
If one were to incorporate the real meanings of the word ?illah? into the translation; this word which actually is a phrase would mean ?One who is not a deity for adoration or worship (God)?.
This sounds so radically different. Who am I to say this? What are my credentials?
Why should we trust this non-sense?
These are all defensive of held belief, so valid and legitimate questions.
Let us instead of worrying about the credentials of the informer of this information; Just explore the language of the Qur'an that is presented from the Qur'an itself.
First of all let us analyse what traditionalists interpret this word to be?
And why they are wrong?
The word is thought to be a combination of a definite article Al = in English ?The? and illah , meaning ?God? but in reality ?a deity for adoration and worship?.
Although, in actuality this "Al" is a contraction of the word and legitimately could be written as "Al" . Can we trust this assertion despite clear references from the Lexicon of Lane and Grammar of William Wright.
Let us turn to Qur'an itself for more evidence. In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word containing a definite article ?Al? . Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition. Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.
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21 Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.
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47 and 432, is the word same concept.
However, for the word when the same preposition is added. We find that the ?Lam? of the supposed definite article ?Al? also disappears. However, following the examples above it should have been written as (in reality one can not type this so called word using an Arabic type writer).
Example, 12 and 115 more places 222, 298 and on and on, in total 116 occurrences.
Whereas, Allathi being a different word its whole contraction disappears. This also proves that this word by no means is a proper name as there is no definite article "Al". As if there would have been an "Al", it should look like this and not
Let us continue to analyses this word further. In the middle there is "Alif" like mark (highlighted in red) with a Shadda mark and another Alif above. (In newer, print version the "alif" above Shadda is taken a fatha shape instead of 'alif" like in this example as well. The gradual changes happening without anybody paying attention to these).
Shadda has several uses in script. We will only discuss the relevant ones here. One use is to indicate the doubling of a consonant. It is also used to indicate such a doubling only to facilitate pronunciation in the ?Sun letters of the Arabic alphabets?. This would be a apparently plausible defensive case for the traditionalist.
Let us analysis why it is wrong. If it were to be correctly understood, then there would be no reason to keep this shadda in place once the ?Al?, if it were really ?Al? of definite article. As in the phrase is gone , as in the example above of . However, we find in the Qur'an that this is not the case. Hence, this shadda is not due to ?Al? of a definate article coming before the word to make it a proper noun, but contraction of Allathi. Although, even if it were to be the case, as illah has already ?Alif? at the start which is not considered a ?Sun letter?. Hence no shadda would be have been added as cited above.
This clearly shows that the persistence of this shadda is due, not to the shadda of ?Al?; but in truth, indicates a real doubling of the consonants.
This means inescapably, that one were to follow the order of pronunciation of, this word. It actually is a sequence of words, a phrase, not just a word . Allathi (written as a contration in script as "Al", La and illah. This would further imply that the middle shadda is suggesting ?two lams? and two alifs?.
Hence, if translated word for word, this word or more accurately phrase would mean ?One who is not a deity for adoration and worship?.
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Peace bkanwar2,
Irrespective of the etymology of the word , its mode of use by 6th century Arabs is such that it is necessarily understood as a substantive whose rendition to English is "God".
So, effectively, the first post of this thread bears the weight of a grain of sand in the face of a gust.