Origin of rakat (units) in daily prayers ?
-
According to Quranists there are not definite rakat (units) in daily prayers so everybody can do as he/she likes.
But I don't understand how is it possible to say that, because Shias and Sunnis hold the same basic number fo units in every prayers.
2 - 4 - 4 -3 - 4
So what's (and when) the origin of these number of units ?
Example, in Quran we can see the same succession of numbers (2-3-4) when talking about angels and wives.
-
According to Quranists there are not definite rakat (units) in daily prayers so everybody can do as he/she likes.
But I don't understand how is it possible to say that, because Shias and Sunnis hold the same basic number fo units in every prayers.
2 - 4 - 4 -3 - 4
So what's (and when) the origin of these number of units ?
Example, in Quran we can see the same succession of numbers (2-3-4) when talking about angels and wives.
Salam,
2-3-4 is not 24434
2-3-4 is a simple incrementation that starts from 2 and finish at 4Peace
-
Salam,
2-3-4 is not 24434
2-3-4 is a simple incrementation that starts from 2 and finish at 4Peace
Yes it depends if you pray or not Dhuhr and Asr. Otherwise, it's 2 - 3 - 4 a perfect match for Subh = 2 / Maghrib = 3 / Isha = 4
-
Really? News to me.
Not really, because if somebody relies on only Quran to determine the number of units then it's impossible because there is no mention of the number of units for each prayer of the day.
The unique way is to follow the common Sunnah based number of units means 2 - (4 - 4) - 3 - 4.
However I would like to know if it's possible to trace the origin of this numbering ?
-
Selam
well we can always turn to mathematics 2 4 4 3 4 / 19 = 1286
peace
???
1286 AD ? BC ? AH ?
-
Selam Jawad
I have no idea brother, I only read it somewhere, but 1286 is only divisible by 2. ;D peace
Well brother,
1286 BC = It's impossible
1286 AD = 685 AH That's also impossible because too late
1286 AH = Totally impossible
-
Selam
Sorry I de-railed the conversation a little... Comming back to the question as far as I know there is no units and there is no daily prayer but word used is salaat. Some say here that salaat is the reading of the Quran and many other things. I have not yet made up my mind as yet, may Allah help us in finding the truth.
Peace
-
Selam
Sorry I de-railed the conversation a little... Comming back to the question as far as I know there is no units and there is no daily prayer but word used is salaat. Some say here that salaat is the reading of the Quran and many other things. I have not yet made up my mind as yet, may Allah help us in finding the truth.
Peace
1)Well, the units are same both in Shiism and Sunnism, for the first, the teachings came from the family of the Prophet and for the second through the Companions. Now, how is it possible that they all may be wrong ?
2)Same
-
1)Well, the units are same both in Shiism and Sunnism, for the first, the teachings came from the family of the Prophet and for the second through the Companions. Now, how is it possible that they all may be wrong ?
2)Same
No quranic reference to this claim.
PEACE
-
No quranic reference to this claim.
PEACE
Not so simple than what you say.
We already know through ahadith and history that for example 'adhan' is something that have been developed and improved. The 'adhan' is not the same as in 7th AC (See. THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ADHAN AND IQAMA OF THE SALAT IN EARLY ISLAM from IKA Howard)
But, for the units of prayers there is no such evidences, and the numbering is stable from 7th AC, first because no history testimonies claiming a change in it, and second it comes from 2 differents and basically opposite sources one is the family of the Prophet and the second is the Companions of the Prophet.
Even if this numbering is not in the Quran, you can't disqualified it so easily because its constancy through centuries is a proof of its validity and authenticity.
I am not somebody who relies on ahadith but in this case I am speechless ! hmm
-
Sorry not 7 AC but 700 AC.
-
i learned that in the quran it mentions everything is created in pairs
Then if everything is created in pairs, where is the second Muhammad ? the second sky ? the second moon ? ............................ brickwall
-
Selam
First of all you are taking hadith as your source of evidence. If this is the case then you really need to look at all the hadith and start sorting out what is accepted and what is rejected. If you do this then you would have ignored the following
-
7185
-
6114
I believe we will have too look deeper into the word salaat to get its true meaning. I believe some on this sight to be very close to concluding that and may Allah help them in their studies of the Quran to enlighten us with the truth.
Peace
-
-
Not so simple than what you say.
We already know through ahadith and history that for example 'adhan' is something that have been developed and improved. The 'adhan' is not the same as in 7th AC (See. THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ADHAN AND IQAMA OF THE SALAT IN EARLY ISLAM from IKA Howard)
But, for the units of prayers there is no such evidences, and the numbering is stable from 7th AC, first because no history testimonies claiming a change in it, and second it comes from 2 differents and basically opposite sources one is the family of the Prophet and the second is the Companions of the Prophet.
Even if this numbering is not in the Quran, you can't disqualified it so easily because its constancy through centuries is a proof of its validity and authenticity.
I am not somebody who relies on ahadith but in this case I am speechless ! hmm
Are you sure 100% to say that the numbering is stable? Yeh, supposed sources of the prophet?s family and companions of the prophet. Can you at least find the ?hadith/s? that indicates the number of ruku, because I didn?t find it, I didn?t look in shia traditions but I did try searching sunni ones.
Considering you seem to know, do share.
If adhan morphed why not ?salat??
-
If adhan morphed why not ?salat??
Agree to that Sis. I was thinking the other day about salat and adhan, if all messengers and prophets before Muhammad established salat and were Muslims, then did they do the adhan, bearing witness that Muhammad was the messenger of Allah, when he wasn't even born?
We just can't assume that because most Sunnis and Shias do it the same way, then it will be correct. All traditional Muslims, that I know of, claim that using hadiths will explain how to salaat as performed by Muhammad... but I just can't imagine that Muhammad would read 'Shalawat Nabi' or salute himself in the end of his salaat/prayer.
Just feel like venting...
-
Agree to that Sis. I was thinking the other day about salat and adhan, if all messengers and prophets before Muhammad established salat and were Muslims, then did they do the adhan, bearing witness that Muhammad was the messenger of Allah, when he wasn't even born?
We just can't assume that because most Sunnis and Shias do it the same way, then it will be correct. All traditional Muslims, that I know of, claim that using hadiths will explain how to salaat as performed by Muhammad... but I just can't imagine that Muhammad would read 'Shalawat Nabi' or salute himself in the end of his salaat/prayer.
Just feel like venting...
NP vent as you like,
Well you don't find "adhan" in the Quran..
true we could assume if people do it the same way it's correct but that would be unwise. in actual fact shias do it differently. yeh the salawat of the nabi makes you think hmm did he speak in prayer in 3rd person about himself? besides we know salat is for God only and a dhikr (2014, 2945)
