How can you refute this?
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The Universe According to the Quran
by Mumin Salih
The bizarre description of the universe, as told in the Quran, may look weird to us, but it reflects the prevailing knowledge of the time in the seventh century Arabia. Mohammeds perception of the universe is told repeatedly throughout the Quran, in a straightforward and clear manner. Early Muslim scholars had no problems on the interpretation of the relevant verses of the Quran. For centuries Muslims worldwide had accepted this explanation of an Islamic universe. Only in the last century Muslim scholars felt the urgent need to take drastic measures to protect the Quran from the critical eyes. These modern scholars base their strength in the unfamiliar and often ambiguous language of the Quran. Their strategy is to twist the language to come up with any meanings they wish. Their weakness is Mohammed himself, who made their job difficult through his ahadith, which only confirm the mythology described in the Quran.
The Islamic Big Bang
Contrary to what the Islamists want us to believe, the seventh century Arabia was not in complete isolation from the outside world. History tells us that the Arabs communicated and traded widely, and were influenced by the neighbouring cultures. The Arabs believed in the then widely accepted ancient mythologies about creation. The most common of those collective myths was that the sky and earth, each resembling a god, were joined together before their separation by gods. The Sumerians and the Egyptians, each had their own version of the story with their own gods as the players.
In the last few decades, the so-called miracle Islamic scientists started to claim that the Quran referred to the big bang theory in this verse, Let us read
Q.21 30 Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?The above verse merely talks about the earth and the heavens. Therefore, this verse cannot possibly be referring to the big bang, which explains what happened before the earth and before the heavens. The verse is actually a reference to those ancient myths described above, with the Arab god Allah, rather than a foreign god, being the central hero.
The above verse in itself is a proof that Allah shares the seventh century Arabs their beliefs! In Arabic, when you say dont you see me working? you do not really want to ask a question, although it is in a question format. The only answer you expect is yes because you know with certainty that he/she can see you working. When Allah asks the unbelievers (dont you see that the heavens and earth ) He actually reminds them with something they already know. This is why there is no evidence in the Islamic history, which suggests the unbelievers had rejected the verse or challenged the information.
The Structure of the Universe
The Quran views the universe as a massive room, the sky being the ceiling (Q.2132) and the earth being the floor. All of Allahs creations are housed between these two major components (Q.21 16). Let us go through the universes major components starting from the top and proceeding downwards
The Skies this is the blue dome we see during the day. It is a solid structure (Q.2 22) perfectly designed and hand built by Allah with no cracks in it (Q.50 6). The sky stands stable above the earth, probably supported by invisible pillars (Q.13 2). If it were not to Allahs mercy, the sky would certainly fall down on earth killing every one of us (Q.22 65).
During the night, the sky is decorated with the stars, which are also useful in navigation. Initially, Allah had only one sky, but after He finished the earths creation, including everything in it, He turned His attention to the sky and made it seven skies. He did that in two days (Q.2 29). Out of the seven skies, only the bottom one has stars as decorations.
The Sun It is our source of light during the day. As per the Quran, everyone can see, the sun rises from the eastern side of the earth and sets in its western side, somewhere in muddy water. The movement of the sun is not in an orbit (madar, which the Quran has never used) but in a path (falak) that starts in the east and ends in the west. The Quran asserts that the only person to discover this movement of the sun was Zulquarnain(Q.1886). Mohammed adds to our knowledge that the sun actually prostrates to Allah during the night to get permission to rise again. In other words, the sun does not continue its path around the earth, and is never under the earth at any stages. This is because under the earth, there are many other earths, besides the suns main concern is to prostrate under Allahs throne, which is of course high above the seven skies.
The Moon If you think of the sun as the source of daylight, then the moon is the source of night-light. The Quran treats the moon as nearly equal to the sun. The Quran also claims that the moon was split in the seventh century into two halves, each half on one side of Mecca, and then they were joined together!
The Earths It is the flat floor of the universe. The Quran views the earth as an equal, but opposite to the sky. Again there are seven similar earths. Some Muslims claim that Allah meant the seven layers of earth, which cannot be true because the Quran says similar earths. The earths layers are neither seven in number nor similar in pattern. It took Allah four days (Q.41 10) to put the right amount of goodness in the earth to make it suitable for our survival. The earth floats on water in a similar way a ship does, which used to cause a dangerous degree of instability.
Why the earth is flat?
The earth is flat because the Quran says so using all the words in the Arabic vocabulary which can possibly mean flat. Let us review the following words used by the Quran to describe the flatness of the earths surface
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Sutehat If you want to describe something as flat in Arabic then there is no better way than using this word. Sateh means flat, sutehat means flattened out.
Q. 8820 Nor even how the earth has been (sutehat) flattened out? -
Bisata also means flat. The Arabic word bisata means a flat sheet or a carpet.
Q. 71 19 And God has laid the earth for you as a (bisata) carpet -
Madda means stretched out until the object becomes flat, like what happens when you take a ball of dough and stretch it until it becomes flat.
Q. 133 And He it is who hath (Madda) outstretched the earth, and placed on it the firm mountains
Q. 1519 And the earth have WE (Madadnaha, from madda) spread out
Q. 506-7 What, have they not beheld heaven above them, how we have built it, and decked it out fair, and it has no cracks? And the earth -- We (Madadnaha) stretched it forth
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Firasha means a mattress, as flat as a mattress.
Q. 222 Who made the earth a (Firasha) bed for you, and the heaven a roof
Q. 5148 And the earth we (Farashnaha, from firasha) have spread out, and how excellently do we spread it out! -
Mahada means a bed, which is flat. In Arabic you can describe something flat by comparing it to a bed.
Q. 2053 .. the One who has laid out the earth as a (Mahdan) carpet for you
Q. 4310 has made for you the earth (Mahdan) like a carpet spread out
Q. 786 Have We not made the earth as a (Mihada) bed, And the mountains as pegs-
Tahaha means flattened.
Q. 915-6 By the heaven and that which built it and by the earth and that which (Tahaha) extended it! -
Dahaha means flat.
This word currently attracts the interest of the so-called miracle Islamic scientists. All Arabic dictionaries agreed that the word means spread out, flattened or extended. This term is frequently used to refer to the practice of the ostrich in preparing and flattening the ground to lay its eggs. The very desperate so-called miracle Islamic scientists picked this association with eggs and claimed the word could also mean an egg shaped thing! Those miracle scientists rely on the fact that most Arabs are not familiar with this old word and none of them will take the trouble to open a dictionary to find out the actual meaning. These Islamic scientists deliberately take advantage of the confusion of ordinary Arabs between the flattened bed of the birds nest and its contents of eggs.
Q. 7927-30 and the earth - after that He (Dahaha) spread it out...
After listing all the above words that mean flat, the question which jumps to the mind when debating with Muslims is let us assume that the earth is really flat, how would the Quran describe it? Are there any other means or more words left in the Arabic vocabulary that have not been used? If Allah wanted to say the earth is a globe, He could have said so, but He didnt because He didnt mean it so.
There is evidence in the Quran which suggests the Quranic earth is truely flat. Here Are two verses to prove the flatness of the Quranic earth
Q.2 144. We shall turn you to a Qiblah that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid- al-Harm . And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. .Q.2150. And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Harm (at Makkah), and wheresoever you are, turn your faces towards it
In the above verses, Allah orders Muslims to face Mecca during their prayers. Let us take the example of a Muslim praying in an island on the other side of the earth. Keeping in mind the globe shaped earth, then that Muslim can face any direction and still he will be facing Mecca! This is true especially to people in distant areas, they can pray even in opposing directions and still face Mecca. I am afraid the above two verses can only be revealed by a person who does not have a clue about the shape of the earth!
In spite of these overwhelming evidences, Muslims still believe that Allah says in the Quran that the earth is round. Their reason is that the word yukawer( to make a ball) exists in the Quran in the following verse
Q.39 5 He ( Yukawer)makes the night to go in the day and (Yukawer) makes the day to go in the night
How convincing! The only problem is that the above verse does not at all mention or talk about the earth!
The Mountains
When Allah created the earth on water, He noticed it was unstable with considerable swaying movement. This was very much like a floating ship. Therefore, Allah dropped (literally dropped = Arabic for alka) numerous mountains to anchor the earth. Therefore the Mountains were not originally part of the Earth, but later additions. In other words, they are extra terrestrial objects that Allah literally dropped on earth to anchor it. The Quran never treats the mountains as integral parts of the earth structure.The Quran refers to the mountains by using the Arabic word al jibal, which literally means mountains, but also by referring the anchorage function they do, rawasya, which literally means anchors.
Al jibal
In the following verses the Quran refers to the mountains by their name, aljibal, but do not forget to treat them as an independent identity from the earth
Q.7314 On the Day when the earth and the mountains will be in violent shake, and the mountains will be a heap of sand poured out and flowing down.
The above verse says that both the earth and the mountains will shake. Obviously, this means the mountains are not part of the earth! A concept that is repeated in many other versesQ.19 90 whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,
Again, when the earth splits, that does not include the mountains!In sura 88, Quran speaks about the heaven, the earth and the mountains!
Q.8818 And at the heaven, how it is raised?
Q.8819. And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?
Q.8820. And at the earth, how it is spread out?Here is more
1331 And if there had been a Qur'n with which mountains could be moved , or the earth could be cloven asunder,
Q.18 47 The Day We shall cause the mountains to pass away, and you will see the earth as a levelled plain
Rawaseya
The Quran refers to the mountains as anchors (rawasya) in the following verses
133,1519,1615, 2131, 2761, 31 10, 41 10, 507, 7727.Let us read the following four of them to comprehend an outstanding example of deception in translating the Quran
Q.1519. And the earth we spread out, and (Alka) placed therein firm mountainsQ.1615. And He has (Alka) affixed into the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you
Q.3110 He has created the heavens without any pillars, that you see and (Alka) has set on the earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with you
Q.50 7 And the earth! We have spread it out, and (Alka) set thereon mountains standing firm
In all the above verses, the Quran says that Allah has dropped the mountains on earth to do a specific job- anchoring the earth. The Quran used the Arabic word (Alka) which means to throw something from above, or to drop something. Almost all translators(Hilali/Khan, Yusuf Ali, Pickthal, Shaker, Arberry, Serwar, Khalifa, Malik, Maulana Ali, Asad and Quaribulla) shared the deliberate mistake of avoiding translating the word (Alka) which was translated correctly only by Rodwell and George Sale.
The Arabic word rawasya means anchors; I am unaware of any other meaning for the word and certainly it does not mean mountains. However, it is perfectly acceptable in Arabic to refer to something by referring to its function, like saying this is my office to refer to a laptop. This kind of expression is meant to put some emphasis on the function. In the case of the laptop you emphasise that your laptop to you is like your office. By using the word rawasya, the Quran emphasises the functions of the mountains as anchors. It did so nine times and still modern Muslims do not seem to get it!
All the above translators, have chosen the word mountains as a translation to the word rawaseya. Indeed the Quran did mean mountains, but the emphasis is on the mountains function as anchors, which are used to stabilize floating objects in the sea, which leaves little doubt that, according to the Quran, the earth is floating on water.
The flat-earth solid sky-dome model of the world makes perfect sense Quranically. It also explains why Angels have wings because what lies between heaven and Earth is air. In modern cosmology, most of the space is vacuum so wings would be largely useless if most of their journey was through vacuum.
Also note the verse that states when the star falls 'wal najm eza hawa' is in perfect harmony with the notion that stars are just decorations on the inner surfaces of the crystal-heaven and they can get detached any time. Also the heavens have gates where people can ascend through and the water comes from heaven via openings. Also note that the Jinn when they get near heaven, the stars are shot as projectiles on the jinn to protect the crystal dome. Thats why the stars are called 'guardian against the devils'.
This model reminds me of the Truman Show anyways. rotfl
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In the last few decades, the so-called miracle Islamic scientists started to claim that the Quran referred to the big bang theory in this verse, Let us read
Q.21 30 Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?Grand Qur'aan nowhere suggests and supports the so called Bing Bang theory. The theory is just a theory, presumptive in nature, while Qur'aan narrates only the established fact. On the contrary Qur'aan tells that the end of Universe will certinly by with a big bang. Poverty of knowledge however makes some people behave like jokers.
Creation of Universe-Quran negates Bing Bang theory.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/07.%20Book-7%20Aafaq%20ki%20Haqeeqat,%20Quran%20in%2021st%20century/07.%20Aafaq%20ki%20haqeeqat,%20Quran%20in%2021st%20century.htm
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How can you refute this?
Easy.
Half of what the author says is extrapolation/interpretation, i.e. baseless.
The author conveniently chooses the meaning of "flat" when that is not their only meaning and also not when cross-referenced. Perfect example is when he cites "daha" which can mean To hurl, spread forth, expand, stretch out, cast away, extend, drive along.
Source http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htmIf AQ literally meant it is flat, then what about hills etc? Even a kid can tell it is not literally flat.
Conveniently forgets to mention that "ard" also means land, surface of earth in AQ, that "fee" can mean "on" and "in" in AQ etc.
The poor dismissal of the use of coil/wrap in 395, which as far as I can see is only possible on a round earth.
Some of the author's statements refer to the traditional/common position.
etc.
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Thank you Rami for sharing with us such a good criticism to the scientific accuracy of the Quranic statements, which will provide us with equally good chance to refute each of its points. I am preparing for a week-long trip to Boston. Inshallah, I am going to respond your criticism when I return.
Peace,
Edip -
The movement of the sun is not in an orbit (madar, which the Quran has never used) but in a path (falak) that starts in the east and ends in the west.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/036.%20Ya%20Seen/36.40b.gif
And all swim in a curved/girl's breast shaped course/orbits.The word used may be compared after looking into the orbits whereupon one may find the precise similarity.
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http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGrmYR50jJ8 The result
http//www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm The Bible and the Book of Enoch has also the same flat-earth solid-dome cosmology apparently found in the Quran.
Also, have you wondered how the Heaven will be split on the Day of Judgement?? and even rolled! like a scroll. How can you split vacuum and what is already opened!
How God and the Angels will come through the clouds? Interesting this exact description is also found in the Book of Revelation!
How can God send a feast from heaven for Jesus and his followers to eat! Truman Show style.
Did science killed the scriptures? Apparently looks so.
Also ponder upon the verse where God says if you want to get through the heavens go ahead and try and you will find molten copper thrown at you! We sent probes and satellites and they were not shot down!
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How can God send a feast from heaven for Jesus and his followers to eat! Truman Show style.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/036.%20Ya%20Seen/36.77.gif
Is it that the man/living humanity does not see/give a thought that We created him from the sperm
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/Temp%2001%2016.04b.gif
then for reason he is obsessively compulsive/excessively argumentative.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/036.%20Ya%20Seen/36.78.gif
And he quoted for Us example forgetting the fact of his own creationhttp//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/036.%20Ya%20Seen/036.%20E%20Ya%20Seen.htm
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/036.%20Ya%20Seen/36.77.gif
Is it that the man/living humanity does not see/give a thought that We created him from the sperm
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/Temp%2001%2016.04b.gif
then for reason he is obsessively compulsive/excessively argumentative.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/036.%20Ya%20Seen/36.78.gif
And he quoted for Us example forgetting the fact of his own creationhttp//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/036.%20Ya%20Seen/036.%20E%20Ya%20Seen.htm
I believe life was created by someone or something but the problem lies with the huge rift between the supposed Creator's word and the creation itself. It is a dilemma. The Sumerians, who predated the Abrahamic philoshphy have a slightly more realistic cosmological point of view.
The Quran is supposed to be facts. Period. So when it says that God made the sky a canopy then when we send a probe or a shuttle, it should hit the heavens and blow!
Why didn't the Quran call the Earth a 'kawkab'. It is also a wandering star if you looked at it from any other planet.
This is because the world in the Quran is the 'Heavens' raised above and the 'Earth' down below. There is no such thing as the universe and it seems there is some kind of universal pulldown in the Quran so the Heavens and the stars can fall to Earth.
Just my thoughts.
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Peace,
Did science killed the scriptures? Apparently looks so.
Perhaps have a look into physics see that the world is not what it appears to be...
http//www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
Time Bandits
http//www.newyorker.com/critics/atlarge/articles/050228crat_atlarge?050228crat_atlarge?To those of us who believe in physics, this separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, if a stubborn one.? -- Einstein
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Hello folks..
Q.21 30 Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, before we clove them asunder?
The above could be describing the Saturn Theory. It is said that the earth was revolving around Saturn which is a dim star (in modern cosmology, they are given the name ?failed star?). Later saturn and earth got into the sun?s orbit.?In modern cosmology, most of the space is vacuum ?...
It has been disputed by electrical engineers and like minded who got into cosmology. They maintain the universe is filled with plasma and electricity.Page 4, of the below link kind of explains the earth and sun may orbit each other due to a wobble. Maybe, just maybe of this, orbits were not detailed?
http//www.howeverythingworks.org/supplements/the_earth_moon_and_sun.pdfOf course time will reveal more via dedicated and honest ?observation, experiment and model? kinda scientists . Hopefully mathematicians with their theoretical escapades come clean..
I am not certainly into the flat earth thingy? the shadow on the moon caused by earth during phases-do we need more than that?? I believe the authors of the quran got allegorical verses and perspectives all mixed up with reality?(al-haqq).
Hope to hear more ??
http//www.velikovsky.info/Saturn_Theory
http//www.thunderbolts.info/home.htm
http//www.electric-cosmos.org/Peace and out
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Yes, right, the addressee of Qur'aan are on the Earth, and the majority of them perceives and calls it Earth not Kokab; it is distinct from all planets, Qur'aan is precise and specific, being Al Haqqo.
Agreed, so could it be that the Quran is not talking about reality but perspective so it is describing everything from a person perspective?
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Agreed, so could it be that the Quran is not talking about reality but perspective so it is describing everything from a person perspective?
Al Haq means a proven and established physical fact, not effected in time and space; absolute truth and reality. The isolated statements of Grand Qur'aan are called Aa'ya'at singular Ayat. This word refers to some thing tangible. And when the Creator, who fully knows about his creation, narrates it verbally, it is as tangible as the thing itself.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.026e.gif
consequently, those who have believed they know that it is the fact from their Sustainer Lord;http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.01.A.htm
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Al Haq means a proven and established physical fact, not effected in time and space; absolute truth and reality. The isolated statements of Grand Qur'aan are called Aa'ya'at singular Ayat. This word refers to some thing tangible. And when the Creator, who fully knows about his creation, narrates it verbally, it is as tangible as the thing itself.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.026e.gif
consequently, those who have believed they know that it is the fact from their Sustainer Lord;http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.01.A.htm
This means that the Hubble telescope is looking at the internal structure of a near crystal dome!!??
How did the listerners of Quran preceived it? It was a universal belief back then that the sky is a solid dome. It is natural. Except for a Chinese school of thought in 200AD!!! 400 years before the Quran was revealed! and the Quran still insists that the Sky is a BUILT RAISED dome that can be SPLIT that can be OPENED. This is not metaphorical because the awesomeness of J-Day is based on the opening of the Sky. In reality, God will only need to enter the atmophere. The universe as we see it is a big gigantic waste of space. All modern cosmology must be false for the Quran to be true. This is also include the Bible, the Rig Veda, Sumerian texts, Enuma Elish etc.
Peace.
